OT - Tax SA Help

[Not Responding]

God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to
that figure.

Two simple questions:

1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
(is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
/to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.

2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
pay an accountant to sort it out for me?

Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.

[Random]

I reckon an accountant would charge you around £50 to fill in a tax return,
assuming you had all the relevant info in some kind of order.

R




"Not Responding" > wrote in message
.uk...
> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such bill
> this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to that
> figure.
>
> Two simple questions:
>
> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
> taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not (is
> the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items /to/
> tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
>
> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to pay
> an accountant to sort it out for me?
>
> Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

At Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:31:40 +0100, message
> was posted by Not
Responding >, including some, all or none of the
following:

>1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
>taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
>(is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
>/to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.

Ha! I made that mistake once and ended up being taxed on my expenses!

Abstrads.

I ended up talking to an inspector and being sent a cheque for a
Several of the BRITONS' pounds.


Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

[Tony Raven]

Not Responding wrote:
> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
> bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to
> that figure.
>
> Two simple questions:
>
> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
> taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
> (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
> /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
>
> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
> pay an accountant to sort it out for me?
>
> Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.

If you are in the position you are in with £severalK at stake I would
get a good accountant in. But in answer to your question, IANQTGTA but
you should fill in your P11D items on the SA. They calculate the total
tax bill calculated from the SA and reconcile it with what went through
PAYE.

I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an SA.
It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA I have
submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

[Sandy Morton]

In article >, Tony Raven
> wrote:
> I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
> this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an
> SA. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA
> I have submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?

I have been asked by the IR to produce all of my records - this is
the first time for years that I have paid tax:-((

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

[Nigel Cliffe]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Not Responding wrote:
>> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
>> bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come
>> to that figure.
>>
>> Two simple questions:
>>
>> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have
>> been taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form
>> or not (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of
>> outstanding items /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
>>
>> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect
>> to pay an accountant to sort it out for me?
>>
>> Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.
>
> If you are in the position you are in with £severalK at stake I would
> get a good accountant in. But in answer to your question, IANQTGTA
> but you should fill in your P11D items on the SA. They calculate the
> total tax bill calculated from the SA and reconcile it with what went
> through PAYE.
>
> I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
> this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an SA.
> It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA I have
> submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?

Nah, seems to be a cockup as far as I can tell.
If you ask them, they send you the new super-simple one page form to
complete*. Its good for someone on PAYE and with simple savings income (eg.
PAYE, a bit in the building society and a few shares paying dividends). If
that's not enough, they'll send the whole SA form.

If you don't ask for a form, and owe tax on any savings, then you're the
wrong side of the tax rules, liable to penalties, etc.: Rule 1 of income tax
being that its the taxpayers job to tell the revenue about things, not their
job to ask.


* I had the same letter, and asked whether they were no longer after tax on
my building society account - obviously they are after that tax !


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

[Nick Kew]

Not Responding wrote:
> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
> bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to
> that figure.
>
> Two simple questions:
>
> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
> taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
> (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
> /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
>
> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
> pay an accountant to sort it out for me?
>
> Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.

No idea, I'm not an accountant, and I have someone else to manage
my meagre funds.

But I've learned that it's exceeding tax-efficient to run my own
company. Not only are lots of my costs usefully deductible, but
I can offset income against tax losses in recent years. This
year, with my first really healthy income since 1998, I hope to
pay tax on less than half of it, and avoid higher-rate crap:-)

Of course there's a downside too, but you only asked about tax:-)

--
Nick Kew

[Nobody Here]

Nigel Cliffe > wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> Not Responding wrote:
>>> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
>>> bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come
>>> to that figure.
>>>
>>> Two simple questions:
>>>
>>> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have
>>> been taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form
>>> or not (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of
>>> outstanding items /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
>>>
>>> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect
>>> to pay an accountant to sort it out for me?
>>>
>>> Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.
>>
>> If you are in the position you are in with £severalK at stake I would
>> get a good accountant in. But in answer to your question, IANQTGTA
>> but you should fill in your P11D items on the SA. They calculate the
>> total tax bill calculated from the SA and reconcile it with what went
>> through PAYE.
>>
>> I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
>> this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an SA.
>> It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA I have
>> submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?
>
> Nah, seems to be a cockup as far as I can tell.
> If you ask them, they send you the new super-simple one page form to
> complete*. Its good for someone on PAYE and with simple savings income (eg.
> PAYE, a bit in the building society and a few shares paying dividends). If
> that's not enough, they'll send the whole SA form.
>
> If you don't ask for a form, and owe tax on any savings, then you're the
> wrong side of the tax rules, liable to penalties, etc.: Rule 1 of income tax
> being that its the taxpayers job to tell the revenue about things, not their
> job to ask.

If you can, fill in the form online. I've done that for some years now
and even on dialup it takes about 20 minutes and it calculates it
all for you. You need your P60 and P11D and Statements of interest earned
(or bank records) and share dividend certificates beforehand. Provided
you're a simple soul - PAYE, banks a few shares, it's a doddle. The biggest
hurdle is being arsed to start it, which reminds me ...

Actually, to be fair, a few years ago it used to be "I couldn't be
arsed because it's so hard and long winded to fill in all those forms,
so I'll put it off till tomorrow". Now, it's "I couldn't be arsed
because it's such a doddle it'll only take 20 minutes so what's the hurry
I'll put it off till tomorrow"

--
Nobby

[Sara Kirk]

In article >, Nick Kew
> wrote:

> Not Responding wrote:
> > God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
> > bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to
> > that figure.
> >
> > Two simple questions:
> >
> > 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
> > taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
> > (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
> > /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.
> >
> > 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
> > pay an accountant to sort it out for me?
> >
> > Sorry to bore you but I had to get it off my chest.
>
> No idea, I'm not an accountant, and I have someone else to manage
> my meagre funds.
>
> But I've learned that it's exceeding tax-efficient to run my own
> company. Not only are lots of my costs usefully deductible, but
> I can offset income against tax losses in recent years. This
> year, with my first really healthy income since 1998, I hope to
> pay tax on less than half of it, and avoid higher-rate crap:-)
>
> Of course there's a downside too, but you only asked about tax:-)

Grump. I've the auditors in next week and the VAT inspector the week
after. Marvellous, what?

--
Sara

iChat: sarakirk (AIM)
So, what are you going to do? Sucker me to death?

[Nick Kew]

Sandy Morton wrote:
> In article >, Tony Raven
> > wrote:
>
>>I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
>>this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an
>>SA. It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA
>>I have submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?
>
>
> I have been asked by the IR to produce all of my records - this is
> the first time for years that I have paid tax:-((
>
Eeek! They tax records???

--
Not me guv

[Graeme]

Not Responding > wrote in news:42d56578$0$148$7b0f0fd3
@reader.news.newnet.co.uk:

> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
> pay an accountant to sort it out for me?

I hate forms too, I used to use TaxCalc from Intuit. It did me fine for my
relatively basic needs. It was wonderful the other year when I emigrated
part of the way through the tax year and they gave me a whole heap of money
as a leaving present! :)

Now I'm in Aus the tax office provide similar software for free :) but they
still want your money in the end :(

Graeme

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Not
Responding ') wrote:

> God I'm miserable. I've got a tax bill for £xk. It's the second such
> bill this year (why? how?). I simply cannot fathom how they've come to
> that figure.
>
> Two simple questions:
>
> 1. Should I be taxed (again) on the P11D items or should that have been
> taxed during the year? Should I be entering them on the SA form or not
> (is the P11D a summary of items already taxed or of outstanding items
> /to/ tax)? The IR people told me to add them in.

I really have no idea. That's what I pay an accountant for.

> 2. I hate forms. I'm crap at form filling. How much should I expect to
> pay an accountant to sort it out for me?

My accountant does my, my partner's, our partnership's and our limited
company's tax for about £400 a year. Indeed our weird but very
tax-efficient arrangement of working for the partnership which works for
the company which works for our customers is his wheeze. We keep our
accounts on QuickBooks and mail them to him at the end of the tax year
and he does all the form filling. He's a very nice guy, fun and laid
back and everything you expect an accountant not to be, and he saves us
£xK every year.

I expect if you go to a big accountancy firm you'll pay a lot more (and
get a lot poorer service). Find someone locally who is semi-retired but
still sharp.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

[Ian Smith]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:10:44 +0100, Tony Raven > wrote:
>
> I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
> this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an SA.
> It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA I have
> submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?


Me too.

Every SA I've ever done has resulted in them refunding at least £700.
Suddenly this year they announce that luckily I won't have to fill any
in in future.

However, having done some poking around and questioning, I find out
that you (well, 'I', possibly you) won't have to fill in an annual tax
return, but will fill in an annual tax review form. The tax review
form contains all the questions that I used to answer on the tax
return, they've just taken out the pages I used to ignore.

So, I won't need to fill in a tax return, but I will need to fill in
an annual form with all the answers I would have filled in had I
filled in a tax return. Big deal. One wonders how much of my money
they've spent coming up with this wheeze.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

[JLB]

Ian Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:10:44 +0100, Tony Raven > wrote:
>
>>
>> I fall in the category for which a SA return is mandatory. Despite
>> this, this year they have informed me that I do not need to do an SA.
>> It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that on every SA I have
>> submitted they have had to write me a cheque would it?
>
>
>
> Me too.
>
> Every SA I've ever done has resulted in them refunding at least £700.
> Suddenly this year they announce that luckily I won't have to fill any
> in in future.
>
> However, having done some poking around and questioning, I find out
> that you (well, 'I', possibly you) won't have to fill in an annual tax
> return, but will fill in an annual tax review form. The tax review
> form contains all the questions that I used to answer on the tax
> return, they've just taken out the pages I used to ignore.
>
> So, I won't need to fill in a tax return, but I will need to fill in
> an annual form with all the answers I would have filled in had I
> filled in a tax return. Big deal. One wonders how much of my money
> they've spent coming up with this wheeze.

Me too. What you said.

I think the reason for this latest move is not the refunds, it is the
huge volume of information being generated that the IR cannot handle,
especially since it was given the additional job of giving money out
(tax credits) as well as its traditional job of taking money in.

The SA system is applied to all higher tax bracket people. These used to
be a smallish part of the population. At the same time a large number of
people on low wages were below the threshold of paying any income tax.
In the last few decades, however, the thresholds have fallen to the
point where almost everyone in employment of any kind is liable for
income tax, producing the ludicrous nonsense of people who both pay tax
and receive welfare benefits; the highest tax bands have gone, producing
a great increase in nett pay to very highly paid people; and the
threshold for the higher tax band has fallen a long way relative to
earnings, putting many more people into the higher tax category. The
overall effect has been to shift the burden of income tax onto lower
wage earners, particularly those who used to pay no income tax.

All that has increased the paperwork and vastly expanded the number of
SA forms being sent out. It seems to me that someone at the IR has
recognised that these forms are now being sent not only to very affluent
people with complicated financial arrangements that justify some
scrutiny, but to an awful lot of people whose financial affairs are just
not that interesting from an IR point of view. So, at last, the IR has
done something about it. And in typical government bureaucrat fashion,
what has been done has been only half done, because it is always done by
committee. One bunch of senior bureaucrats voted to stop annoying so
many people with the full SA because it's pointless, and another bunch
said it was better to be cautious, just in case, so in the end we got
this compromise which is not one thing or the other.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

[Tony Raven]

JLB wrote:
>
> I think the reason for this latest move is not the refunds, it is the
> huge volume of information being generated that the IR cannot handle,
> especially since it was given the additional job of giving money out
> (tax credits) as well as its traditional job of taking money in.
>

Reminds me of a wonderful conversation I had with the Inland Revenue
that involved an appeal to the Tax Commissioners over their actions. It
all came down to them ignoring the information on the supplementary
sheets that the on-line assessment provides for you. When they received
the application the first thing they did was strip off and discard the
supplementary sheets and send what was left to the tax inspector to
review! Apparently standard policy to cope with the volume of forms
they were having to deal with.


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon