Qantas $400 excess baggage charge for bikes.

[Mike]

A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any
more. It's too risky.

We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required.
And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per
bike handling fee.
But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for
Qantas got strict.
Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually
allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each,
and 15kg each bags, "that'll be NZ$440 excess charge please".
A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special
deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get - ie the first 15kg of
excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight
to carry-on. But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice
to us.
Be warned! Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with
bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need
to sign a limited release. Also, they don't weigh the carry-on. I have
seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking
wheeled case.
Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport's
security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then
managed to check them in.
At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but
didn't care once identified. Good luck.

NEXT TIME - I'll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as
only 5kg, and excess charges are much lower - e.g. $25 for up to 30kg.

http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment

(Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the
people responsible for our aiport security. I'll happily fight their
security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me
with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two :-)

[Stuart Lamble]

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.travel.air.]
On 2005-01-28, Mike > wrote:
> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any
> more. It's too risky.
[...]
> (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the
> people responsible for our aiport security. I'll happily fight their
> security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me
> with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two :-)

It becomes more understandable -- note, not more acceptable, just more
understandable -- when you come to the realisation that airport security
is not about security. It's about the _appearance_ of security. Or, in
other words: they don't screen you to make sure that the flight is safe;
they screen you to make sure that you _believe_ the flight is safe.

If I walk through the metal detector at Melbourne airport, for example,
I could be carrying a ceramic or glass knife, strapped to my thigh --
and they wouldn't know any different. Meals are served with a plastic
knife ... and a metal fork. Hell, I could do some pretty serious damage
(with the right training) just with my glasses, especially if I
carefully filed the ends to sharp points and covered them with rubber
tips to conceal the sharp points.

To tighten security up to the point where nothing dangerous gets on
board would cost a fortune, and drive up air travel prices to the point
where nobody would fly any more. And doing things effectively on board
the plane (like having cockpit doors that are locked and effectively
impenetrable from the passengers' area) isn't visible, so it doesn't
immediately allay fears of hijack/terrorism/whatever.

Bruce Schneier has some interesting articles on this topic -- google for
"cryptogram" and have a search through the archives.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".

[John Dwyer]

"Mike" > wrote in message
...
>A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any more.
>It's too risky.
>
> We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required.
> And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per
> bike handling fee.
> But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for
> Qantas got strict.
> Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually
> allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each,
> and 15kg each bags, "that'll be NZ$440 excess charge please".
> A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special
> deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get - ie the first 15kg of
> excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight
> to carry-on. But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice
> to us.
> Be warned! Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with
> bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need
> to sign a limited release. Also, they don't weigh the carry-on. I have
> seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking
> wheeled case.
> Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport's
> security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then managed
> to check them in.
> At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but didn't
> care once identified. Good luck.
>
> NEXT TIME - I'll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as only
> 5kg, and excess charges are much lower - e.g. $25 for up to 30kg.
>
> http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information
>
> http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment
>
> (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people
> responsible for our aiport security. I'll happily fight their
> security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with
> a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recently travelled (without bike) from Canberra to Sydney by coach. I
arrived at the coach terminal about 15 minutes before departure, my luggage
was not x-rayed, they did not care if I was carrying a jeweller's
screwdriver or a nail file, and the return trip of 560 km approx was $50 on
a non refundable fare. The time from Jolimont Centre, Canberra to Eddy
Avenue, Central Railway was 3.25 hours. It was all quite civilised.

I will need a good reason to travel from Canberra to Sydney by air on either
airline.

John Dwyer.

[DaveB]

What I've found on regular flights between Melb-Sydney is that the rules
at each airport are either different or interpreted differently, but
they appear to be consistent within an airport. So the things I get
challenged on at one airport happen every flight, but they are different
things to what get challenged at the other airport. So I guess if I
was travelling with a bike or anything else I wouldn't assume that just
because I flew one direction with no problem, the same would be the case
on the return flight.

DaveB

[hippy]

Mike wrote:
> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any
> more. It's too risky.

<snip>

Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
remind me if I don't :)

hippy

[casurina99]

hippy Wrote:
> Mike wrote
> > A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes an
> > more. It's too risky
>
> <snip
>
> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to tr
> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with m
> so I'll let you guys know how that works out.
> remind me if I don't :
>
> hippy
If your flying Singapore airlines the will charge the excess - chec
first.

--
casurina99

[geoffs]

hippy Wrote:
> Mike wrote:
> > A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bike
> any
> > more. It's too risky.
>
> <snip>
>
> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
> so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
> remind me if I don't :)
>
> hippy
When are you going??
We are off to France for 6 weeks of cycling in june/july. We're hopin
that the new Co-motion Mocha co-pilot will avoid the excess charges. W

worked out that we can take a total of 54kgs before any problems and w
should be well under that.

Cheers

Geof

--
geoffs

[oely]

dave Wrote:
> hippy wrote:
> > Mike wrote:
> >
> >> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bike
> any
> >> more. It's too risky.
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
> > and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
> > so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
> > remind me if I don't :)
> >
> > hippy
> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>
> Dave


I had some dramas when taking my road bike with me over to Europe o
JAL. They wanted to slug me 400$ for excess luggage this was after i
had all been arranged with the JAL sales type rep a month earlier a
long as I gave them the measurements for the bike box and weight, whic
i did. Then once i came to check in i heard that will be 400$ extr
please. Apparently, so i was told that JAL dont consider a bik
sporting equipment also. This i might add was told to me by a Quanta
girl working for JAL that day. It was a stand off with the JAL manage
not willing to budge, nor I. Anyway luckily a phone call to my sis at
am (works in corporate travel) solved things as she knew the JAL rep an
got him out of bed to clear it all up. The excuse i was given by the JA
manager was "oh i did not see the note in the computer, it wasn´t in th
right spot"

--
oely

[Jack Russell]

dave wrote:
> hippy wrote:
>
>> Mike wrote:
>>
>>> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any
>>> more. It's too risky.
>>
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
>> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
>> so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
>> remind me if I don't :)
>>
>> hippy
>
> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>
> Dave
IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow

--
Remove norubbish to reply direct

Jack Russell

[hippy]

geoffs wrote:
> When are you going??

End of April is still looking good.

> We are off to France for 6 weeks of cycling in june/july. We're hoping
> that the new Co-motion Mocha co-pilot will avoid the excess charges. We

I'm hoping to get to France for the TdF!!! :D

Co-motion Mocha whatthe? :)

Google doth provide: http://www.co-motion.com/Mocha.html

> worked out that we can take a total of 54kgs before any problems and we
> should be well under that.

54kgs!! Are we still talking about plane travel?

How can you get that much luggage? Oh, is that between two people?

I'll contact the airline I decide on and find out their policy on bikes.
Looks like Malaysian at the moment, perhaps KLM or Austrian(?)?

FD: I'll meet you in Amsterdam for a "coffee" ;)

hippy
- should've gone to System of a Down instead of Sandown last night!

[hippy]

Jack Russell wrote:
> dave wrote:
>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>
> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or KLM
for now. I'll get back to you on that..

hippy

[Jack Russell]

hippy wrote:
> Jack Russell wrote:
>
>> dave wrote:
>>
>>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>
>>
>> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
>> Heathrow
>
>
> Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
> bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>
> dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or KLM
> for now. I'll get back to you on that..
>
> hippy
>
Its leaving London, the BA staff are a shambles. Since they handle many
airlines they might be hard to avoid. Funnily enough I flew Brodeaux to
Gatwick with BA last year. Did not have the bike protected at all (bit
hard after a tour). No problems.
Also 4 years ago flew NZ/United to Caracas. Had the bike boxed, no
charge no problems. Returning from Caracas United charged me some
nominal fee.
So I guess it is all a bit random.

--
Remove norubbish to reply direct

Jack Russell

[nobody]

hippy wrote:
> Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
> bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nop. Once your luggage gets past the check-in counter, its is accepted
all the way to destination. Baggage handlers don't really know if you
paid extra or not.

Technically, if you interline, the second airline might page you if
you've gone way above baggage allowance (they'd see number of pieces
check in if they look for it). But I have never heard this happen.
Generally, the baggage allowance of the originating airline is honoured
by the other airlines on the same trip/ticket.

When you get to a check-in counter manned by an airline whose policies
are different, you need to assert your rights (and then it is good to
know your own airline's precise rules) and insist that they check the
exact rules that apply to you as an airline X passenger. Point out that
your ticket is on your airline X, and airline X's rules apply and that
you have no link to the airlien Y which may be the employer of the check
in agent.

If Y and X are part of the same airline allowance, pickup an alliance
booklet that garantees seemless baggage rules from your airline across
the whole network of airlines part of that alliance.

[Dominic Sansom]

I got so fed up with not knowing if I was going to be charged, I ende
up building a bike and leaving it in storage in Sydney (I get to Au
5-6 time a year) so I can ride when ever I'm there.

I would't mind so much but it seems to be luck-of-the-draw depending o
the person behind the check-in counter. I'd prefer to know BIKES COS
$XX and choose the airline that'll give me the best rate. Mind you, no
I ony have to take my helmet, shoes, bibs and jerseys and the bike i
waiting for me

--
Dominic Sanso

[Jack Russell]

dave wrote:
> Jack Russell wrote:
>
>> dave wrote:
>>
>>> hippy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes
>>>>> any more. It's too risky.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
>>>> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
>>>> so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
>>>> remind me if I don't :)
>>>>
>>>> hippy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
>> Heathrow
>>
>
> BA.. I could tell you stories about BA.. Which stands for Bad Attitude.
>
> Dave
Better than its predecessor BOAC "Better on a camel"


--
Remove norubbish to reply direct

Jack Russell

[SteveA]

dave Wrote:
> hippy wrote
> > Jack Russell wrote
>
> >> dave wrote
> >
> >>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips
> >
> >
> >> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff a
> >> Heathro
>
>
> > Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave wit
> th
> > bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane
>
>
> Nah.. Maybe on the flight back.. maybe
>
> The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and
> reckon has one more in it btw
>
>
> > dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian o
> KL
> > for now. I'll get back to you on that.
>
> Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a nigh
> in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel
> They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Ja
> hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely
> And they laid on an earthquake for me
>
> The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapes
> flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didn
> actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.
> 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better
> I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and
> decided to go an hour before that :
>
> Dave
Most 'state' airlines have good stopover deals in their countries o
origin - I suspect it is something to do with the national touris
authority wanting to showcase their country to tourists. If you fl
with Singapore Airlines, book your Singapore hotel through them and i
is very cheap and they throw in various freebies and discounts, eg zoo
hop-on bus, airport transfers etc.

Last time I flew to London with JAL, I got a deal where I stayed i
Tokyo for 4 days in a decent hotel in the business district for only
few dollars more. Plus a free half day bus trip around the city and
trip on the Bullet train thown in

Steve

--
SteveA

[hippy]

dave wrote:
> The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
> reckon has one more in it btw.

Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a 'special'
cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags
or (even more expensive) hardcases?

> Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
> in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel. They
> dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal hotel
> in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely.
> And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>
> The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
> flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
> actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K. A
> 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
> I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
> decided to go an hour before that :)

Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I'm going
longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible
choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around
1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I
take this flight I'm going to spend a few days in 'dam before heading on
to London.
I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that
forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! ;)
There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines
(Lauder??) but it doesn't have the 'fun stop'.
Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until
mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional.
I need to look around some more..

hippy

[nobody]

hippy wrote:
> Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a 'special'
> cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags
> or (even more expensive) hardcases?

The bike boxes Qantas provides when to buy them are much larger than
what bikes are sold in to retailers. You Need to remove front wheel and
seatpost, turn handlebar and remove pedals. And if you care about your
bike, put some wood pieces across the box so that if they sit box on its
side and stack luggage on top, it ios the wood pieces that carry the
load and not your derailleur/frame/wheels.

Some airlines provide bike bags. There are oversize string plastic bag.
No need to remove wheels, but you still need to remove pedals and turn
handlbars,. Seat can stay. Forces baggage handlers to take care of the
bike. But doesn't prevent bike from falling from trolley, or in airport
with luggage belts wide enough for bike, you don't know what happens to
the bike beyond that curtain. (Avoid the Air Canada oversize belt at
Dorval airport like the plague, insist on then getting a baggage handler).

Expensive bike bags are not design to protect a bike, they are designed
to allow you to carry the bike easily. (both wheels off for instance).

Hardcases will protect your bike. However, beware of weight limits since
the hardcase itself weighs a lot, and the airline may not like it if it
is too heaby or goes over your weight limit if you are flying in a
market that is weight limited.

[Jack Russell]

hippy wrote:
> dave wrote:
>
>> The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
>> reckon has one more in it btw.
>
>
> Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a 'special'
> cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags
> or (even more expensive) hardcases?
>
You can buy a larger box from Qantas (under $20). In Sydney you have to
go to the domestic terminal (who knows why!). I believe VIcBike and BNSW
may also sell them. They are a lot easier to pack the bike in.
I have one of those expensive hard cases, bought last year. Trouble is
that plus the weight of the bike is your whole baggage allowance. It
took a great deal of fist thumping and cries of "never had this problem
before" to not have to pay massive excess charges returning from
Heathrow last year. Part of the trouble (I suspect) is that it does not
look like a bike. A bare bike or one in a cardboard box tends to just
get shunted off.

>> Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
>> in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
>> They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
>> hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely.
>> And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>>
>> The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
>> flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
>> actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.
>> A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
>> I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
>> decided to go an hour before that :)
>
>
> Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I'm going
> longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible
> choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around
> 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I
> take this flight I'm going to spend a few days in 'dam before heading on
> to London.
> I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that
> forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! ;)
> There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines
> (Lauder??) but it doesn't have the 'fun stop'.
> Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until
> mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional.
> I need to look around some more..
>
> hippy


--
Remove norubbish to reply direct

Jack Russell

[dave]

hippy wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
>> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes any
>> more. It's too risky.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
> so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
> remind me if I don't :)
>
> hippy
Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?

Dave

[Miguel Cruz]

hippy > wrote:
> Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
> bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nope, once you arrive you're home-free. Biking from the airport into the
city without a map is fun too!

> dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or KLM
> for now. I'll get back to you on that..

Malaysia Airlines is the most comfortable and has the best in-flight
service. Some awkward connections in KUL though.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

[oely]

dave Wrote:
> hippy wrote:
> > Jack Russell wrote:
> >
> >> dave wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want an
> tips?
> >>
> >>
> >> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
> >> Heathrow
> >
> >
> > Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave wit
> the
> > bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>
>
> Nah.. Maybe on the flight back.. maybe.
>
> The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
> reckon has one more in it btw.
>
> >
> > dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian o
> KLM
> > for now. I'll get back to you on that..
>
> Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
> in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
> They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
> hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip u
> nicely.
> And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>
> The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
> flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
> actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.
> A
> 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
> I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
> decided to go an hour before that :)
>
> Dave


I had the night stop over in Japan also, on the way to Amsterdam. I
went really well, the whole trip. You could check in for the nex
flight at the Hotel in the morning as well which saved alot of hassle
and scored myself 3 empty exit row seats. However (so my sis tells me
that they aren´t doing this any more and now fly "direct" to Europe an
back

--
oely

[Jack Russell]

Miguel Cruz wrote:
> hippy > wrote:
>
>>Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
>>bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>
>
> Nope, once you arrive you're home-free. Biking from the airport into the
> city without a map is fun too!
>

> miguel
I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick

--
Remove norubbish to reply direct

Jack Russell

[Miguel Cruz]

Jack Russell > wrote:
> Miguel Cruz wrote:
>> hippy > wrote:
>>> Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
>>> bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>>
>> Nope, once you arrive you're home-free. Biking from the airport into the
>> city without a map is fun too!
>
> I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick

Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It's London, not Baghdad -
there's little downside to the occasional wrong turn...

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

[Mike]

Miguel Cruz wrote:

>>>Nope, once you arrive you're home-free. Biking from the airport into the
>>>city without a map is fun too!
>>
>>I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick
>
>
> Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It's London, not Baghdad -
> there's little downside to the occasional wrong turn...

There is less traffic in Baghdad!
I managed to get free London cycling maps from the Heathrow Underground
rail station (after telling me I couldn't take a bike on the Picadilly
line.)
The "cycle path" consisted mostly of lines painted on the old
pavement. Very rough. This was a fine Sunday - I wouldn't want to brave
weekday traffic.

[hippy]

Miguel Cruz wrote:
> hippy > wrote:
>>Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
>>bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>
> Nope, once you arrive you're home-free. Biking from the airport into the
> city without a map is fun too!

haha.. I'm taking my race bike..
I don't think it (nor I) can carry ~30kgs of suitcase-based luggage into
the city! :)

hippy

[dave]

oely wrote:
> dave Wrote:
>
>>hippy wrote:
>>
>>>Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes
>>
>>any
>>
>>>>more. It's too risky.
>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
>>>and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
>>>so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
>>>remind me if I don't :)
>>>
>>>hippy
>>
>>Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>
>>Dave
>
>
>
> I had some dramas when taking my road bike with me over to Europe on
> JAL. They wanted to slug me 400$ for excess luggage this was after it
> had all been arranged with the JAL sales type rep a month earlier as
> long as I gave them the measurements for the bike box and weight, which
> i did. Then once i came to check in i heard that will be 400$ extra
> please. Apparently, so i was told that JAL dont consider a bike
> sporting equipment also. This i might add was told to me by a Quantas
> girl working for JAL that day. It was a stand off with the JAL manager
> not willing to budge, nor I. Anyway luckily a phone call to my sis at 6
> am (works in corporate travel) solved things as she knew the JAL rep and
> got him out of bed to clear it all up. The excuse i was given by the JAL
> manager was "oh i did not see the note in the computer, it wasn´t in the
> right spot".
>
>
JAL were really nice to me. Once they realise that the bike is just a
small box weighing about 12 kg it wasnt an issue. WHat I will do next
time is the online checkin tho . It seems likely to me to give them
less chance to kick up. Not that I can imagine JAL people kicking up
anyway.

Mind you if JAL does have anyone that doesnt understand customer service
thay will follow the example of everyone else and ship em off to
london.. of that I am sure

Dave

[dave]

Jack Russell wrote:
> dave wrote:
>
>> hippy wrote:
>>
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> A warning - Things are getting worse. Don't fly Qantas with bikes
>>>> any more. It's too risky.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this kind of info. I'm going to try
>>> and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me
>>> so I'll let you guys know how that works out..
>>> remind me if I don't :)
>>>
>>> hippy
>>
>>
>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>
>> Dave
>
> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow
>

BA.. I could tell you stories about BA.. Which stands for Bad Attitude.

Dave

[dave]

hippy wrote:
> Jack Russell wrote:
>
>> dave wrote:
>>
>>> Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>
>>
>> IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
>> Heathrow
>
>
> Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the
> bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?


Nah.. Maybe on the flight back.. maybe.

The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
reckon has one more in it btw.

>
> dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or KLM
> for now. I'll get back to you on that..

Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely.
And they laid on an earthquake for me.

The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K. A
767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
decided to go an hour before that :)

Dave

[dave]

SteveA wrote:
> dave Wrote:
>
>>hippy wrote:
>>
>>>Jack Russell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
>>>>Heathrow
>>>
>>>
>>>Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with
>>
>>the
>>
>>>bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>>
>>
>>Nah.. Maybe on the flight back.. maybe.
>>
>>The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
>>reckon has one more in it btw.
>>
>>
>>>dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or
>>
>>KLM
>>
>>>for now. I'll get back to you on that..
>>
>>Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
>>in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
>>They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
>>hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely.
>>And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>>
>>The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
>>flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
>>actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K. A
>>767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
>>I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
>>decided to go an hour before that :)
>>
>>Dave
>
> Most 'state' airlines have good stopover deals in their countries of
> origin - I suspect it is something to do with the national tourist
> authority wanting to showcase their country to tourists. If you fly
> with Singapore Airlines, book your Singapore hotel through them and it
> is very cheap and they throw in various freebies and discounts, eg zoo,
> hop-on bus, airport transfers etc.

Actually I figured that they had so many flight crews staying in hotels
that they bit the bullet and bought one.
>
> Last time I flew to London with JAL, I got a deal where I stayed in
> Tokyo for 4 days in a decent hotel in the business district for only a
> few dollars more. Plus a free half day bus trip around the city and a
> trip on the Bullet train thown in.

YEah It occured to me I could do something like that.. But...
>
> SteveA
>
>

[dave]

hippy wrote:
> dave wrote:
>
>> The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
>> reckon has one more in it btw.
>
>
> Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a 'special'
> cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags
> or (even more expensive) hardcases?

special? Nope this is for a small er Trek 20 " mens. A box from bike
life.

John (NIcholson) offered to loan me his bike bag.. I put the bike in
it.. and yeah it did pack smaller.. but I thought more protection for it
in the box
>
>> Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
>> in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
>> They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
>> hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely.
>> And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>>
>> The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
>> flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
>> actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.
>> A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
>> I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
>> decided to go an hour before that :)
>
>
> Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I'm going
> longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible
> choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around
> 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I
> take this flight I'm going to spend a few days in 'dam before heading on
> to London.
> I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that
> forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! ;)
> There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines
> (Lauder??) but it doesn't have the 'fun stop'.
> Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until
> mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional.
> I need to look around some more..

1100 seems good. The tax on some routes is significan.. could be as
much as about 300/

Dave
>
> hippy

[dave]

nobody wrote:
> hippy wrote:
>
>>Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a 'special'
>>cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags
>>or (even more expensive) hardcases?
>
>
> The bike boxes Qantas provides when to buy them are much larger than
> what bikes are sold in to retailers. You Need to remove front wheel and
> seatpost, turn handlebar and remove pedals. And if you care about your
> bike, put some wood pieces across the box so that if they sit box on its
> side and stack luggage on top, it ios the wood pieces that carry the
> load and not your derailleur/frame/wheels.

I figure larger doesnt equal safer. And its just harder to lug around.
>
> Some airlines provide bike bags. There are oversize string plastic bag.
> No need to remove wheels, but you still need to remove pedals and turn
> handlbars,. Seat can stay. Forces baggage handlers to take care of the
> bike. But doesn't prevent bike from falling from trolley, or in airport
> with luggage belts wide enough for bike, you don't know what happens to
> the bike beyond that curtain. (Avoid the Air Canada oversize belt at
> Dorval airport like the plague, insist on then getting a baggage handler).



> Expensive bike bags are not design to protect a bike, they are designed
> to allow you to carry the bike easily. (both wheels off for instance).
Yeah.. THe one I was offered was actually very small.. both wheels off..
but sheesh I could see some collateral damage with it. Decided not to
risk it.
>

>
> Hardcases will protect your bike. However, beware of weight limits since
> the hardcase itself weighs a lot, and the airline may not like it if it
> is too heaby or goes over your weight limit if you are flying in a
> market that is weight limited.

Nope.. You see Fat *******s way over their weight allowance with 6 huge
suitcases. Harder to argue you are being penalised.. if you have one
very huge suitcase.


Dave

[dave]

oely wrote:
> dave Wrote:
>
>>hippy wrote:
>>
>>>Jack Russell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any
>>
>>tips?
>>
>>>>
>>>>IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at
>>>>Heathrow
>>>
>>>
>>>Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with
>>
>>the
>>
>>>bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?
>>
>>
>>Nah.. Maybe on the flight back.. maybe.
>>
>>The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I
>>reckon has one more in it btw.
>>
>>
>>>dave: Qantas is still an option but it's looking like Malaysian or
>>
>>KLM
>>
>>>for now. I'll get back to you on that..
>>
>>Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night
>>in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel.
>>They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal
>>hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up
>>nicely.
>>And they laid on an earthquake for me.
>>
>>The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest
>>flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt
>>actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.
>>A
>>767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better.
>>I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I
>>decided to go an hour before that :)
>>
>>Dave
>
>
>
> I had the night stop over in Japan also, on the way to Amsterdam. It
> went really well, the whole trip. You could check in for the next
> flight at the Hotel in the morning as well which saved alot of hassles
> and scored myself 3 empty exit row seats. However (so my sis tells me)
> that they aren´t doing this any more and now fly "direct" to Europe and
> back.
>
>
Hmmmm I would be supprised.. was only 4 months ago.