Wheel rant

[suzyj]

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking a
spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhoo
of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likel
choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up wit
Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practic
aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy buil
wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggeste
I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LB
owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone i
riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on trainin
rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.

</rant>

Cheers,

Suz

--
suzyj

[Claes]

suzyj Wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> <rant>
>
> What the fsck is with bike shops these days?
>
> I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
> spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
> of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
> choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.
>
> She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
> Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
> aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
> wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
> I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
> owner.
>
> Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
> riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
> rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.
>
> </rant>
>
> Cheers,
>
> SuzyYepp, you are right, there is big fashing factor, in having what looks
like a "cool" wheelset. When you look at what is "light" wheels, they
are not lighter than what you can build with separate hubs and spokes
and rims, 32h. My mtb came with factory built "normal" wheels, and they
are not that good, I think a "wheelset" with a name would be slightly
better, but a wheelset built by a good wheel builder would be the best.
I am looking to pick up a wheelset on ebay or something. :)


--
Claes

[DeF]

suzyj wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> <rant>
>
> What the fsck is with bike shops these days?
>
> I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
> spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
> of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
> choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.
>
> She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
> Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
> aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
> wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
> I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
> owner.
>
> Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
> riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
> rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.
>
> </rant>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
>
>

Well, I've been a regular rider for several decades now including
a bunch of laden touring (tents, stoves etc.) Now I ride mainly for
fitness. I recently went over to factory wheels (campag sciroccos and
zondas) and have to say I'm a convert. For years I've had problems
with breaking spokes. This is on wheels that I've built myself and
those build at various bike shops. I can't think of a rear wheel that
hasn't broken a drive side spoke at some point. All of these wheels
have gone out of true.

Even my commuting MTB (with slicks) has started pinging rear spokes.
Mind you, carrying me and my 2yo plus all his food is a big ask for
any bike.

I've now done about 1k on each of my sets of built wheels and they're
still true. I might add that they ride very well. Cornering is
great (no wallowing). I reckon the G3 system is fantastic and something
like it should be used on all rear wheels.

So, I sympathise with your opinion of LBSs but based on my few months
experience with built wheels, I'll buy them again except possibly for
a touring bike that I'm still dreaming of building up one day...I was
thinking of going Centaur triple for this machine.

As they say, YMMV.

Cheers,
Duncan.

--
e-mail:
To reply, you'll have to remove finger.

[Gemma_k]

"suzyj" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi guys,
I even suggested
> I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
> owner.
>
Suzy,
What have you done with all the pairs of rims you bought off of me? Just
curious. I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms (300g
each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h hubs, and the weight for
the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't that lighter than a pair of Zipp
202's?)
Old school rocks.
Gemma

[till!]

Gemma_k Wrote:
> I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms (300
> each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h hubs, and th
> weight fo
> the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't that lighter than a pair of Zip
> 202's?)
Sure, bet they get sick of fixing the am classics though :

til

--
till!

[NoZX6R]

suzyj wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> <rant>
>
> What the fsck is with bike shops these days?
>
> I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
> spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
> of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
> choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.
>
> She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
> Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
> aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
> wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
> I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
> owner.
>
> Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
> riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
> rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.
>
> </rant>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
>
>

sounds like a crap shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of wheel.

I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull) are
just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike I see
has Ksyriums.

--
Nick

[flyingdutch]

NoZX6R Wrote:
>
> sounds like a crap shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
> year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
> much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice o
> wheel.
>
> I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull
> are
> just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike
> see
> has Ksyriums.
>
> --
> Nick

Half? i think i got passed by some ol' geezer on a walking frame wit
Seeriums fitted the other day :rolleyes:
Its all Bling

Most LBS's just sell what's foisted upon them and its all pre-ordaine
kit now.
Comparison shopping at diff shops is easy cos you know "that one's
GIANT shop, that one does trek, etc, etc" and its all like buying
car, but without the cupholder count (altho its only a matter o
time...

--
flyingdutch

[rooman]

flyingdutch Wrote:
>
>
> Most LBS's just sell what's foisted upon them and its all pre-ordaine
> kit now
> Comparison shopping at diff shops is easy cos you know "that one's
> GIANT shop, that one does trek, etc, etc" and its all like buying
> car, but without the cupholder count (altho its only a matter o
> time... )
Too True FD........In Melb there are still some good wheel builder
tho, who will do as you ask and some!, such as John Beesley, Omara'
(JaiO works a wheel well) , Kennedy is a whiz and has a great range o
hoops, spokes, hubs and (if you are really ready to rock, even Bora
and singles to boot) and also Walkers in the CBD, Fitzies too

I found great value for money for road/training wheels with Velocity's
Fusions 32h front and 36h rear , butted spokes and bullet hubs, hav
done 12000klms on one set without ever needing a spoke spanner.....

People think that you have to have a pro's look-alike bike in al
respects to actually ride well...ahemmm, how many pro-bikes get tosse
after each race....or are heavily rebuilt with a wrench guy/wenc
standing by at every event?.....or actually bear no resemblance to wha
they say you can buy "standard"in the LBS? ....Unless you are at elit
level, or have a huge pocket full of readies, and can afford the hig
end wheels with singles, or constanly replacing the fragile mini spoke
thingies that bust up at the hint of a speed-hump....go for the safes
profile hoop, with a sensible number of spokes, on a good hub....get
clean rolling tire, don't over inflate and go have some fun!!

If you have the time, ...remember your wheels are your most importan
link with the road and vital to your safety, so they must be suited t
your needs, your weight and the performance dictates you impose...
like fitting a bike)... shop around the traditional stores that arn'
Pizza factories, and dont take any crap

And on a fossickers note..I got some great Record hubs off the vultur
table at Walkers last week ( incl 32h Record Titanium and a C-Recor
36h), for future projects...(and some Campy Athena Carbon 9Spee
Ergos-in box too ( oh so sweeeeeet!) - and a great Suntour botto
bracket...projects projects projects....what are winter nights fo
anyway

so mooch around, ask questions, be a pain and ...repeat after me "don
take any crap"...

here endeth the lesson...;)

* Now about that cup holder...a bit of gaffer and a cut down bido
holder will do, just up here on the side of th
stem.....hmmmmmmm...where's that brew?

--
rooman

[ritcho]

suzyj Wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> <rant>
>
> What the fsck is with bike shops these days?
>
> I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking a
> spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhoo
> of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likel
> choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.
>
> She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up wit
> Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practic
> aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy buil
> wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggeste
> I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LB
> owner.
>
> Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone i
> riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on trainin
> rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.
>
> </rant>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy

Alright, we know you're a retrogrouch from way back ;)

Come to think of it, I'm up to about 12000km on my homemade wheels
cxp33 rims, dt 14/15/14 spokes, brass nipples + ultegra 32h hubs. Not
broken spoke or a spoke key in sight... I take this as being a prett
good money saving outcome, given the deplorable state of Sydney's road
(which killed my old Giant Peloton...)

The homemade version cost somewhere around $600 in parts for the pair
A set of R500 wheels is just $295, but weigh a ton and won't last nea
as long.

Ritch

How long does a rim last anyway? A road rim... used on roads - not
mtb rim used in dirt and mud. Anyone here worn through a rim

--
ritcho

[aeek]

NoZX6R Wrote:
> suzyj wrote:
> > She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built u
> with
> > Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
> > aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
> > wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I eve
> suggested
> > I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from on
> LBS
> > owner.
> >
>
> sounds like a crap shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
> year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
> much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice o
> wheel.
>

When I got my OCR0 I had them substitute SPDs for the SLs, since the
they've built me open pros on durace-9-32H, first the rear, then th
front.
Had to wait on the rear spokes, then nipples; and the front hub(though
too late, could have gone record!) Basically what the senior staff gu
(not a mechanic) had built himself before his woman got him ont
campy.
We'd discussed Ksyriums but these are supposed smoother - plus I coul
get just the rear. The spokes are light but!
What % of shops have a wheelbuilder?

PS why centaur hubs? Chorus or even record wouldn't be that much more

--
aeek

[Nick Payne]

There's such a high margin in those fashionable wheels. Assemble $300 of
components and sell them for $1300. And then when a spoke breaks or a rim
gets bent, it costs an arm and a leg for the replacement, assuming that
they're still available (just ask those suckers who bought Helium wheels and
can't get replacement parts).

Nick

"suzyj" > wrote in message
...
>
> Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
> riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
> rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.

[Carl Brewer]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:30:27 +1000, suzyj
> wrote:

>
>Hi guys,
>
><rant>
>
>What the fsck is with bike shops these days?
>
>I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
>spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
>of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
>choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.
>
>She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
>Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
>aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
>wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
>I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
>owner.
>
>Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
>riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
>rides. The poor *******s just can't buy anything else.

My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne :)

[Carl Brewer]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:28:00 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>NoZX6R Wrote:
>>
>> sounds like a crap shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
>> year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
>> much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of
>> wheel.
>>
>> I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull)
>> are
>> just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike I
>> see
>> has Ksyriums.
>>
>> --
>> Nick
>
>Half? i think i got passed by some ol' geezer on a walking frame with
>Seeriums fitted the other day :rolleyes:
>Its all Bling

Or is that "fling"? Damn ksyriums .. try and fix them when they
break!

[Carl Brewer]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:53:13 +1000, ritcho
> wrote:


>The homemade version cost somewhere around $600 in parts for the pair.
>A set of R500 wheels is just $295, but weigh a ton and won't last near
>as long.

And you'll spend 2 months waiting for a new spoke if one breaks ...

>Ritch
>
>How long does a rim last anyway? A road rim... used on roads - not a
>mtb rim used in dirt and mud. Anyone here worn through a rim?

I've worn out an Open Pro to the point where the rim exploded on
a (very slow!) descent. Around 30,000km it lasted, I think.
Around that sort of distance anyway. I'm hard on rims, I'm
heavy and do a lot of wet descents.

[suzyj]

Gemma wrote:

> What have you done with all the pairs of rims
> you bought off of me?

Nothing (yet). They're destined for my next project - a super-dupe
lightweight road racing bike. It'll use polished stainless lugs
Columbus Genius tubes (love them 0.4mm tube walls) and will have tw
sets of wheels - one set will use the Ambrosio 32 hole rims, wit
Chorus hubs, for general racing, and a set of "climbing" wheels, wit
the 28 hole Nisi rims and Record hubs. Or that's the plan, anyway :)

I've been watching my early '90s Tour de France DVDs for inspiratio
:)

> I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms
> (300g each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h
> hubs, and the weight for the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't
> that lighter than a pair of Zipp 202's?)

Cool. I'm expecting similar a weight from the Nisi (290g each)/Recor
28 spoke combo.

> Old school rocks.

Don't need no steenkin' Ksyriums :)

Cheers,

Suz

--
suzyj

[suzyj]

Aeeeeeeeek wrote:

> PS why centaur hubs? Chorus or even record wouldn't
> be that much more.

Mainly because the rest of the bike is Centaur, and we figured the
could order the hubs with the group. That said though, the hubs ar
one of the reasons the whole group is Centaur. Centaur are th
cheapest group with the very yummy oversize aluminium axled hubs.
They're identical to Record, with the exception that the adjusty bit i
plastic rather than aluminium, and they don't have oil holes. Oh, an
did I mention they're cheaper :)

I'm usually a serious retrogrouch, but I make an exception for the ne
OS Record/Chorus/Centaur hubs. The design is so much better than th
old ones, it's amazing.

Regards,

Suz

--
suzyj

[suzyj]

Carl Brewer wrote:

> My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne :)

I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to buil
the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, som
Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it woul
probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.

It's that "assembled bike" thing.

Me, I've never bought an assembled bike in me life. Come to think o
it, I've never bought a whole groupset at a time, either. I just bu
bits.

Cheers,

Suz

--
suzyj

[Claes]

suzyj Wrote:
> Carl Brewer wrote:
>
> > My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne :)
>
> I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to buil
> the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, som
> Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it woul
> probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.
>
> It's that "assembled bike" thing.
>
> Me, I've never bought an assembled bike in me life. Come to think o
> it, I've never bought a whole groupset at a time, either. I just bu
> bits.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
Then it is simple, she buys bike with bling wheels, sell on ebay
replace with wheels you build for her, I imagine the extra cost will b
neglible. A bit of hassle selling the wheels, but if they are blin
ones, no probs I reckon

--
Claes

[ronni51]

Claes Wrote:
> Then it is simple, she buys bike with bling wheels, sell on ebay
> replace with wheels you build for her, I imagine the extra cost will b
> neglible. A bit of hassle selling the wheels, but if they are blin
> ones, no probs I reckon.
Hello I am a old bike mechanic and build wheels all the time at work
I ride a road bike am 198cm and weigh 105kgs. I ride of curbs at 40km
and do all sorts of things on a road bike that people do on a atb.I us
any cassette hub thats laying around but a 32 hole deep dish rim hea
treated, Sapin spokes or DT, As I true and build wheels at wor
everyday I hate doing mine , for me what works is a deepdish ri
Velocity or Sun rim

--
ronni51

[Carl Brewer]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:25:37 +1000, suzyj
> wrote:

>
>Carl Brewer wrote:
>
>> My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne :)
>
>I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to build
>the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, some
>Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it would
>probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.

Yeah, but you can always sell the ksyriums (maybe to some poor
sap who has some that are broken :) ) and buy the bits to make
good wheels instead. I'd bet the ksyriums, even 2ndhand, would
be "worth" more than most home-built wheels.

[till!]

So that I dont pay too much attention to the TdF commentators Im lacin
up a pair of wheels while I watch

The Pedros spoke wrenchs totally own the park ones, and aren
significantly more expensive either. They have both the U-shaped 2-sid
driver and the C-shaped 3-corner drive as well on opposite sides

I picked up mine from Kerry at www.phantomcycles.com.au but Im sur
they're available though any good LBS

http://store.yahoo.com/pedrosusa/prospokwren.htm

til

--
till!