So, what is the difference between Oz's A-graders and "the pro's"

[flyingdutch]

Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along tha
i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in th
mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grad
and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????

My cuzz is a decent A-grader despite age and (lack of) trainin
catching up with him, and i realise how far ahead he is to me (OK. h
grew up cycling and speedskating and went to 3 winter olympics and wa
oz no.1 before retiring and handing the mantle to steve bradbury) s
can anyone (firsthand knowledge would be sensational!) let us/me kno
what is 'THE' difference between the grades AND making the jump to 'th
show' as it was called in baseball. my only reference. i made it t
double-A grade in US 'farm' minors and the majors just seemed so clos
yet SO far away. seems like a world away now...

F"tell-im-ees-dreamin"Dutc

--
flyingdutch

[aeek]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along tha
> i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in th
> mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grad
> and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????
>

Oenone Wood was at the sharp end of (men's) B Grade Kingston Crit, a
800m rectangle. A grade would have been better training but a whole lo
less fun.
Not the PRO you were after I know

--
aeek

[Hitchy]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along tha
> i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in th
> mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grad
> and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????
>
> My cuzz is a decent A-grader despite age and (lack of) trainin
> catching up with him, and i realise how far ahead he is to me (OK. h
> grew up cycling and speedskating and went to 3 winter olympics and wa
> oz no.1 before retiring and handing the mantle to steve bradbury) s
> can anyone (firsthand knowledge would be sensational!) let us/me kno
> what is 'THE' difference between the grades AND making the jump to 'th
> show' as it was called in baseball. my only reference. i made it t
> double-A grade in US 'farm' minors and the majors just seemed so clos
> yet SO far away. seems like a world away now...
>
> F"tell-im-ees-dreamin"Dutch


Dutchy, dutchy, dutchy.......obviously you hurt more than your shoulde
when you came a cropper!.......however, if we assume by 'Pro', you mea
making a reasonable living soley from racing your bike?......then th
average Aussie 'A' grader is about a gazillion miles from being in
position to do that, or be good enough to do that......there be a F**
of a lot of competition from about a gazillion other guys, for ever
sprint prime, every crit place, every place on every team that has an
chance of winning anything. At the very least, you need a f*** of a lo
of talent, a f**** of a lot of luck......& it doesn't hurt if you star
with a f**** of a lot of money behind you (either your own or
personal benefactors!)......man the chances of any Aussie making i
overseas are enormous. Thats why the guys that do are 'cyclin
gods'........couple of examples....Chris Bradford, one of the top 'A
graders going around in Vic, won everything worth winning....currentl
has a pro contract with Wismilak (I think thats how you spell it?), i
Indonesia....back here at the moment, racing for bucks (again) in loca
events.........Will Walker?...won last years suntour......only a kid
but currently racing for 'food' with Rabobanks continenta
team...perform or get cut!......& maybe if you do perform, just maybe
we might take you on again!....tough, tough way to make a quid...that
why so few make it!

As for 'you' going up the grades.......not impossible.....but you neee
to devote the time to do the training. I'm sure Carl will have plenty t
say on this point. The gap betwen D & C isn't a huge leap....nor th
jump between C & B.......B to A is a real quantum leap though,

Hitch

--
Hitchy

[ritcho]

Hitchy Wrote:
> Dutchy, dutchy, dutchy.......obviously you hurt more than your shoulde
> when you came a cropper!.......however, if we assume by 'Pro', you mea
> making a reasonable living soley from racing your bike?......then th
> average Aussie 'A' grader is about a gazillion miles from being in
> position to do that, or be good enough to do that......there be a F**
> of a lot of competition from about a gazillion other guys, for ever
> sprint prime, every crit place, every place on every team that has an
> chance of winning anything. At the very least, you need a f*** of a lo
> of talent, a f**** of a lot of luck......& it doesn't hurt if you star
> with a f**** of a lot of money behind you (either your own or
> personal benefactors!)......man the chances of any Aussie making i
> overseas are enormous. Thats why the guys that do are 'cyclin
> gods'........couple of examples....Chris Bradford, one of the top 'A
> graders going around in Vic, won everything worth winning....currentl
> has a pro contract with Wismilak (I think thats how you spell it?), i
> Indonesia....back here at the moment, racing for bucks (again) in loca
> events.........Will Walker?...won last years suntour......only a kid
> but currently racing for 'food' with Rabobanks continenta
> team...perform or get cut!......& maybe if you do perform, just maybe
> we might take you on again!....tough, tough way to make a quid...that
> why so few make it!
>
> As for 'you' going up the grades.......not impossible.....but you neee
> to devote the time to do the training. I'm sure Carl will have plenty t
> say on this point. The gap betwen D & C isn't a huge leap....nor th
> jump between C & B.......B to A is a real quantum leap though,
>
> Hitchy

All true and wise words indeed.

Another way to look at it is when the Euro pros turn up in summer for
bit of R and R, they leave the regular A-graders in the tyre smoke (i
Heffron Park form is any guide). My inference is that pros are "quite
lot" faster than your average A-grader... not that A-graders ar
average.

Ritc

--
ritcho

[Carl Brewer]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:17:35 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along that
>i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in the
>mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grade
>and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????

When some pros race at Glenvale over summer, there's not
much difference at all!

[Carl Brewer]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:17:35 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along that
>i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in the
>mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grade
>and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????

Another reference point for this, Aaron Salisbury races A grade here
(Vic) and is currently riding in Belgium as an amateur. (If you were
at the last aboc dinner you would have heard him talk about it :) ),
the difference between our A grade and the European amateurs
is pretty significant too. He wins a lot of crits here but his best
result over there was a few top-20's from memory. Aparently there's
a lot of doping in the European amateur races too.

[flyingdutch]

Hitchy Wrote:
> Dutchy, dutchy, dutchy.......obviously you hurt more than your shoulde
> when you came a cropper!
>

tell me about it...

Hitchy Wrote:
>
> As for 'you' going up the grades.......not impossible.....but you neee
> to devote the time to do the training. I'm sure Carl will have plenty t
> say on this point. The gap betwen D & C isn't a huge leap....nor th
> jump between C & B.......B to A is a real quantum leap though,
>
> Hitchy

bwahahahah. i wasnt inferring i could move up! (like i said i recko
Cgrade would be my ceiling) jeez Dgrade seems like a big ask at th
mo... i just wanted to know how crap i really am :rolleyes:

it went thru my head last night as i rode home that maybe racing isn
for me...
stupid head, gotta stop listening to heem :rolleyes

--
flyingdutch

[Carl Brewer]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:59:49 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>Hitchy Wrote:
>> Dutchy, dutchy, dutchy.......obviously you hurt more than your shoulder
>> when you came a cropper!
>>
>
>tell me about it...
>
>Hitchy Wrote:
>>
>> As for 'you' going up the grades.......not impossible.....but you neeed
>> to devote the time to do the training. I'm sure Carl will have plenty to
>> say on this point. The gap betwen D & C isn't a huge leap....nor the
>> jump between C & B.......B to A is a real quantum leap though,
>>
>> Hitchy
>
>bwahahahah. i wasnt inferring i could move up! (like i said i reckon
>Cgrade would be my ceiling) jeez Dgrade seems like a big ask at the
>mo... i just wanted to know how crap i really am :rolleyes:
>
>it went thru my head last night as i rode home that maybe racing isnt
>for me...

Remember how you felt after collecting that envelope? :)

[flyingdutch]

Carl Brewer Wrote:
>
> Remember how you felt after collecting that envelope? :)

yeah, yeah. its just i cant even sit on a wheel at the moment withou
contemplating what's going to go wrong. time thing, i guess..

--
flyingdutch

[Bruce Dickson]

flyingdutch wrote:

> (snip)

Here in Brisbane every year they have a crit at Southbank where the
local A graders race a few of the Aussie pros, there is also one at
Noosa and The Gold Coast. They are usually in November so the pros
aren't in top form and I'm sure the local guys would be peaking. The
pros always put in a good showing but don't always win it, they
certainly don't make the local A graders look like D graders. That's
only a 1 hour crit though. I think the big difference is the length and
huge number of races in Europe. It's usually only after a few years of
racing as a pro that a good amateur starts winning if at all.

Bruce.

[Shabby]

Carl Brewer Wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:17:35 +1000, flyingdutch
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all alon
> that
> >i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in the
> >mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, the
> A-grade
> >and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????
>
> When some pros race at Glenvale over summer, there's not
> much difference at all!

Except that the pros are in the off-season, here for the Bay crits
Baden and friends turn up to Glenvale to show their support for wher
they started (Baden etc). Everyone in A grade wants to knock off th
big guys, whereas they really don't care if they're racing well i
January.

The bay crits sort out most of the A graders, and that's in the of
season. any of the A graders who had the goods would be off pursuin
it, not working nine to five and training their asses off to be
grade

--
Shabby

[Carl Brewer]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:37:40 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>Carl Brewer Wrote:
>>
>> Remember how you felt after collecting that envelope? :)
>
>yeah, yeah. its just i cant even sit on a wheel at the moment without
>contemplating what's going to go wrong. time thing, i guess...

You'll come good soon enough!

[Carl Brewer]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:20:56 +1000, Shabby
> wrote:

>
>Carl Brewer Wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:17:35 +1000, flyingdutch
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along
>> that
>> >i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in the
>> >mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then
>> A-grade
>> >and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????
>>
>> When some pros race at Glenvale over summer, there's not
>> much difference at all!
>
>Except that the pros are in the off-season, here for the Bay crits.
>Baden and friends turn up to Glenvale to show their support for where
>they started (Baden etc). Everyone in A grade wants to knock off the
>big guys, whereas they really don't care if they're racing well in
>January.

You misunderstand :)

I meant that when pros are in A grade, then a grade is very
close to "pro".


>
>The bay crits sort out most of the A graders, and that's in the off
>season. any of the A graders who had the goods would be off pursuing
>it, not working nine to five and training their asses off to be A
>grade.

You're not wrong!

[tony f]

"flyingdutch" > wrote in
message ...
>
> Perspective and reality being a nasty thing and me knowin all along that
> i might only ever be able to sneak a Dgrade win and maybe 'be in the
> mix' in C grade i started to wonder how far 'up' B-grade, then A-grade
> and the pantheon of bein a PRO is?????

Quality and hideablity of performance enhancing drugs?

Tony F
no, not cynical at all
well, maybe a little bit

[aeek]

a PRO wins with a broken pelvis
" I was able to retake the lead and the overall win on the final stage
something that with hindsight is either psycho, tough, or both."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2005/diaries/john/?id=john0518

whereas your local rider (FD) gives up when he's still got one goo
shoulder

--
aeek