Calling all cyclists

[flyingdutch]

Want yer help people

I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)

Can y'all rub a few braincells together and suggest some topics.
Please try and keep OT so I dont have to sift thru the usual 'one day,
at band camp...' stories :D If you could write answers to em that'd be
cool too
Take a look at urbancyclist.org

My initial thoughts are:

Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?

Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?

Cyclists cause congestion

Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...

Cyclists should get off the footpath

Cyclists take up a whole lane

etc etc

fanx in advance
FD


--
flyingdutch

[Shabby]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> Want yer help people
>
> I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
> to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
> rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>
> Can y'all rub a few braincells together and suggest some topics.
> Please try and keep OT so I dont have to sift thru the usual 'one day,
> at band camp...' stories :D If you could write answers to em that'd be
> cool too
> Take a look at urbancyclist.org
>
> My initial thoughts are:
>
> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>
> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?
>
> Cyclists cause congestion
>
> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>
> Cyclists should get off the footpath
>
> Cyclists take up a whole lane
>
> etc etc
>
> fanx in advance
> FD

Might be worth using some BV stuff, they have a section on "dinner
party arguments" in their magazine....... of course, you'd have to
accredit it now that you're gonna be one of them....


--
Shabby

[flyingdutch]

Shabby Wrote:
> Might be worth using some BV stuff, they have a section on "dinner party
> arguments" in their magazine....... of course, you'd have to accredit it
> now that you're gonna be one of them....

stop counting chickens big guy! :D (very nervous/scared FD...)

My angle is more debunking the myths, not 'general' stuff
altho i shall take a look and see what tiopics they have covered
(not sure I can be bothered/want-to do an anti-cm rant tho...)


--
flyingdutch

[Bleve]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Shabby Wrote:
> > Might be worth using some BV stuff, they have a section on "dinner party
> > arguments" in their magazine....... of course, you'd have to accredit it
> > now that you're gonna be one of them....
>
> stop counting chickens big guy! :D (very nervous/scared FD...)
>
> My angle is more debunking the myths, not 'general' stuff
> altho i shall take a look and see what tiopics they have covered
> (not sure I can be bothered/want-to do an anti-cm rant tho...)

I'll do that one for you :)

[Euan]

>>>>> "FD" == flyingdutch > writes:

FD> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?

Motorists pay rego to use the road because society has decided that the
risks posed by motorists to society warrants registering people who wish
to use a car. The same mechanism is used to monitor people who wish to
use firearms, both are capable of death and injury and need to be
controlled.

In ten years cyclists have collectively killed two people. On average
it takes motorists three days to achieve that, I guess that's one area
where motorists really are more efficient.

The lions share of the rego fee is in fact the TAC (Traffic Accident
Commission) contribution. This is necessary because motorists kill
hundereds, cripple thousands and injure hundereds of thousands every
year.

Cyclists do not.

FD> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?

Why are taxpayers money used to pay for roads?

Roads are useful to society so the government collects taxes and uses
those taxes to build roads for the common good. Cycling lanes and paths
cost significantly less than roads and are useful to every able bodied
person in society; you do not need a licence to use a bike lane or path.

Everyone uses pavements and guess what? They're paid for by taxes too.

FD> Cyclists cause congestion

A road which can service 1000 cars an hour can service 8000 bicycles in
an hour. Clearly bicycles do not cause congestion.

FD> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...

Bikes lanes are there to increase the flow of traffic for cars, not
bicycles.

Without a defined place for bicycles on the road motorists would use the
whole width of the road. On encountering a cyclist a motorist would
likely have to deviate from his course causing confusion and danger for
following motorists.

Bike lanes can be dangerous places for cyclists. It encourages unsafe
cycling by putting a cyclist in close proximity to parked cars and the
lane is rarely maintained to the same standard as the roads.

FD> Cyclists should get off the footpath

I couldn't agree more. Cycling on the footpath is far riskier than
cycling on the road, however it is legal for children under 12 and
adults accompanying said children.

FD> Cyclists take up a whole lane

On occasion yes, and that's to help motorists. Many motorists are
unaware of the width of their vehicle and lack judgement in how much
room to give a cyclist. By taking the whole lane when appropriate
cyclists make life easier for you by not requiring you to make a
decision which, if the motorist got wrong, could result in lethal
consequences. Even though motorists kill and maim on a daily basis
cyclists are aware that this is not intentional and are only too happy
to help motorists be good citizens on the road.

FD> etc etc

Keep em coming :-)
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

[warrwych]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> Want yer help people
>
> I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
> to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
> rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>
> Can y'all rub a few braincells together and suggest some topics.
> Please try and keep OT so I dont have to sift thru the usual 'one day,
> at band camp...' stories :D If you could write answers to em that'd be
> cool too
> Take a look at urbancyclist.org
>
> My initial thoughts are:
>
> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>
> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?
>
> Cyclists cause congestion
>
> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>
> Cyclists should get off the footpath
>
> Cyclists take up a whole lane
>
> etc etc
>
> fanx in advance
> FD


How about calling it CrankBusters instead of MythBusters? :D


--
warrwych

[cfsmtb]

warrwych Wrote:
> How about calling it CrankBusters instead of MythBusters? :D


Yeah, I like that! Another tact, not just busting myths about cycling -
but how it is a perfectly normal activity with a long noble history in
Australia. One thing that keep springing to mind is peoples short
memories when it comes to remembering our cycling heritage. Recall the
exploits of Percy Armstrong, Danny Clark, Russell Mockridge "Snowy"
Munro etc etc etc. Sir Hubert Opperman went on to be a Liberal MHR
(shock horror) More here:
http://canberrabicyclemuseum.com.au/cyclists_Aust.htm

Shearers used ride btw sheep stations on their trusty Malvern
Stars....ie: write a historical aspect into busting myths about
cyclists. We are just carrying on in a long & proud tradition.... :D


--
cfsmtb

[flyingdutch]

warrwych Wrote:
> How about calling it CrankBusters instead of MythBusters? :D


goodwun!!!!


--
flyingdutch

[Resound]

"Euan" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>> "FD" == flyingdutch
>>>>>> > writes:
>
> FD> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>
> Motorists pay rego to use the road because society has decided that the
> risks posed by motorists to society warrants registering people who wish
> to use a car. The same mechanism is used to monitor people who wish to
> use firearms, both are capable of death and injury and need to be
> controlled.
>
> In ten years cyclists have collectively killed two people. On average
> it takes motorists three days to achieve that, I guess that's one area
> where motorists really are more efficient.
>
> The lions share of the rego fee is in fact the TAC (Traffic Accident
> Commission) contribution. This is necessary because motorists kill
> hundereds, cripple thousands and injure hundereds of thousands every
> year.
>
> Cyclists do not.
>

On the other hand, just because it's sitting in the driveway doesn't mean
that the car which the average cyclist does in fact own hasn't had its
registration paid.

> FD> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?
>
> Why are taxpayers money used to pay for roads?
>
> Roads are useful to society so the government collects taxes and uses
> those taxes to build roads for the common good. Cycling lanes and paths
> cost significantly less than roads and are useful to every able bodied
> person in society; you do not need a licence to use a bike lane or path.
>
> Everyone uses pavements and guess what? They're paid for by taxes too.
>

And of course there's the recently rolled out "You mean as a cyclist I'm not
a taxpayer? Wow...BIG refund this year then!"

> FD> Cyclists cause congestion
>
> A road which can service 1000 cars an hour can service 8000 bicycles in
> an hour. Clearly bicycles do not cause congestion.
>
> FD> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>
> Bikes lanes are there to increase the flow of traffic for cars, not
> bicycles.
>
> Without a defined place for bicycles on the road motorists would use the
> whole width of the road. On encountering a cyclist a motorist would
> likely have to deviate from his course causing confusion and danger for
> following motorists.

I wouldn't go there...if the deviation required to safely pass a cyclist
confuses a motorist to the extent that it becomes a danger, then it's time
for that motorist to send the driving license back to Kelloggs. It also
presents the idea that cyclists actually DO hold up traffic and that they
generally present a danger on the road.

> Bike lanes can be dangerous places for cyclists. It encourages unsafe
> cycling by putting a cyclist in close proximity to parked cars and the
> lane is rarely maintained to the same standard as the roads.
>
> FD> Cyclists should get off the footpath
>
> I couldn't agree more. Cycling on the footpath is far riskier than
> cycling on the road, however it is legal for children under 12 and
> adults accompanying said children.
>
> FD> Cyclists take up a whole lane
>
> On occasion yes, and that's to help motorists. Many motorists are
> unaware of the width of their vehicle and lack judgement in how much
> room to give a cyclist. By taking the whole lane when appropriate
> cyclists make life easier for you by not requiring you to make a
> decision which, if the motorist got wrong, could result in lethal
> consequences. Even though motorists kill and maim on a daily basis
> cyclists are aware that this is not intentional and are only too happy
> to help motorists be good citizens on the road.
>
> FD> etc etc
>
> Keep em coming :-)
> --
> Cheers | ~~ __@
> Euan | ~~ _-\<,
> Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

We really should set up a wiki for this. Anyone know how?

[PiledHigher]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> goodwun!!!!

Can it be more like Brainiac with lots of gratuitous nudity...

Did you see the charge tape, they cut a shaped hole in a steel plate! I
want to blow some stuff up.


--
PiledHigher

[warrwych]

cfsmtb Wrote:
> Yeah, I like that! Another tact, not just busting myths about cycling -
> but how it is a perfectly normal activity with a long noble history in
> Australia. One thing that keep springing to mind is peoples short
> memories when it comes to remembering our cycling heritage. Recall the
> exploits of Percy Armstrong, Danny Clark, Russell Mockridge "Snowy"
> Munro etc etc etc. Sir Hubert Opperman went on to be a Liberal MHR
> (shock horror) More here:
> http://canberrabicyclemuseum.com.au/cyclists_Aust.htm
>
> Shearers used ride btw sheep stations on their trusty Malvern
> Stars....ie: write a historical aspect into busting myths about
> cyclists. We are just carrying on in a long & proud tradition.... :D

heheehe 'xactly cfsmtb. I was more thinking about the cranks we have to
put up with on the road and in the newspapers and on tv..... :D :D
but your point is excellent. Cycling IS normal, not abnormal so why
keep repeating that particular myth?


--
warrwych

[cfsmtb]

Resound Wrote:
>
>
> We really should set up a wiki for this. Anyone know how?



Here's a start:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wiki_Science:How_to_start_a_Wiki


--
cfsmtb

[Euan]

>>>>> "Resound" == Resound > writes:

Resound> "Euan" > wrote in message
Resound> ...
>>>>>>> "FD" == flyingdutch
>>>>>>> > writes:
>>
FD> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>> Motorists pay rego to use the road because society has decided
>> that the risks posed by motorists to society warrants registering
>> people who wish to use a car. The same mechanism is used to
>> monitor people who wish to use firearms, both are capable of
>> death and injury and need to be controlled.
>>
>> In ten years cyclists have collectively killed two people. On
>> average it takes motorists three days to achieve that, I guess
>> that's one area where motorists really are more efficient.
>>
>> The lions share of the rego fee is in fact the TAC (Traffic
>> Accident Commission) contribution. This is necessary because
>> motorists kill hundereds, cripple thousands and injure hundereds
>> of thousands every year.
>>
>> Cyclists do not.
>>

Resound> On the other hand, just because it's sitting in the
Resound> driveway doesn't mean that the car which the average
Resound> cyclist does in fact own hasn't had its registration paid.

I prefer to avoid that argument, you don't need rego to use a bicycle
so whether one owns a car or not is irrelevant.

FD> Cyclists cause congestion
>> A road which can service 1000 cars an hour can service 8000
>> bicycles in an hour. Clearly bicycles do not cause congestion.
>>
FD> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>> Bikes lanes are there to increase the flow of traffic for cars,
>> not bicycles.
>>
>> Without a defined place for bicycles on the road motorists would
>> use the whole width of the road. On encountering a cyclist a
>> motorist would likely have to deviate from his course causing
>> confusion and danger for following motorists.

Resound> I wouldn't go there...if the deviation required to safely
Resound> pass a cyclist confuses a motorist to the extent that it
Resound> becomes a danger, then it's time for that motorist to send
Resound> the driving license back to Kelloggs.

I would have thought the road toll would be sufficient evidence of that.

Resound> It also presents the idea that cyclists actually DO hold up
Resound> traffic and that they generally present a danger on the
Resound> road.

No, just that some drivers are incompetent.

Resound> We really should set up a wiki for this. Anyone know how?

Yes, but the choice of wiki is largely dependent on what's available on
the server. There are wikis around which work off of plain text and
forms but they are generally more limited than something which runs off
of L/WAMP, Perl etc.

FD, any idea what's available on the Borondoora web host?
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

[Shabby]

warrwych Wrote:
> How about calling it CrankBusters instead of MythBusters? :D

How about the 20/20 column........ we all get to write 20
unitelligible words that sound cleverer than they are.

Shabby, Caroline Springs


--
Shabby

[Shabby]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> stop counting chickens big guy! :D (very nervous/scared FD...)

The scariest part is over now....... that photo won't win you any
votes.


--
Shabby

[flyingdutch]

Shabby Wrote:
> The scariest part is over now....... that photo won't win you any votes.


LOWBLOW! :(

and to think i was gonna nude-it-up! :rolleyes:


--
flyingdutch

[dave]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Want yer help people
>
> I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
> to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
> rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>
> Can y'all rub a few braincells together and suggest some topics.
> Please try and keep OT so I dont have to sift thru the usual 'one day,
> at band camp...' stories :D If you could write answers to em that'd be
> cool too
> Take a look at urbancyclist.org
>
> My initial thoughts are:
>
> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>
> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?
>
> Cyclists cause congestion
>
> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>
> Cyclists should get off the footpath
>
> Cyclists take up a whole lane
>
> etc etc
>
> fanx in advance
> FD
>
>
I,ll add one. When coming home from the ATB after slowing for Mr Yappys
little dog I told him the leash in his hand needed to be on the dog.

He told me.. get on the road where you belong

So cyclists should get off the bike paths

[Terry Collins]

Euan wrote:

> In ten years cyclists have collectively killed two people.

I prefer In the same period, motor vehicles have killed xyz,abc people.

[Ray Peace]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Want yer help people
>
> I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
> to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
> rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>
> Can y'all rub a few braincells together and suggest some topics.
> Please try and keep OT so I dont have to sift thru the usual 'one day,
> at band camp...' stories :D If you could write answers to em that'd be
> cool too
> Take a look at urbancyclist.org
>
> My initial thoughts are:
>
> Why dont Cyclists Pay rego if they want to use the road?
>
> Why are taxpayers' moneys used to pay for cycling lanes/paths?
>
> Cyclists cause congestion
>
> Bikelanes take up road space, leaving me with only one lane...
>
> Cyclists should get off the footpath
>
> Cyclists take up a whole lane
>
> etc etc
>
> fanx in advance
> FD
>
>
Hand me the shovel, the bull***t's getting too thick.

[flyingdutch]

Ray Peace Wrote:
>
>
> Hand me the shovel, the bull***t's getting too thick.

so dont type it :rolleyes:

Bad day?


--
flyingdutch

[SuzieB]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> Want yer help people
>
> I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
> to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
> rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>
> FD
Hey FD,

I love the website, heapsa USEFUL information! I am so much more
impressed with yours than with our local bug site:
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kingbic/ . *le sigh*


--
SuzieB

[flyingdutch]

SuzieB Wrote:
> Hey FD,
>
> I love the website, heapsa USEFUL information! I am so much more
> impressed with yours than with our local bug site:
> http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kingbic/ . *le sigh*

I cant take ALL the credit (but i will :D)
approx 50% of it was a carryover from the old incarnation
Bits have been added over the last 12-18 months (maps/campaigns/etc)

I make it a regular item at our meetings to remind people to feed me
stuff

Strangely enuff the most common way people arrive at the site is a
search on 'Bike setup' or searches on Councillors and politicians
names, closely followed by path info and shops.

Like many BUGs, they are made up of a 'hardcore' core. Ours is
basically 6-8 people with another 10-20 making rarer appearances/input.
Most just ge the newsletter and get updated on stuff

Oh, by the way. You should go get involved! :D


--
flyingdutch

[EuanB]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> I cant take ALL the credit (but i will :D)
> approx 50% of it was a carryover from the old incarnation
> Bits have been added over the last 12-18 months (maps/campaigns/etc)
>
> I make it a regular item at our meetings to remind people to feed me
> stuff
>
> Strangely enuff the most common way people arrive at the site is a
> search on 'Bike setup' or searches on Councillors and politicians
> names, closely followed by path info and shops.
>
> Like many BUGs, they are made up of a 'hardcore' core. Ours is
> basically 6-8 people with another 10-20 making rarer appearances/input.
> Most just ge the newsletter and get updated on stuff
>
> Oh, by the way. You should go get involved! :D

Heh :-) Suzie emailed the Kingston Bug contact two days ago which is
more than I've done.


--
EuanB

[cfsmtb]

flyingdutch Wrote:
>
>
> Like many BUGs, they are made up of a 'hardcore' core. Ours is
> basically 6-8 people with another 10-20 making rarer appearances/input.
> Most just ge the newsletter and get updated on stuff
>
> Oh, by the way. You should go get involved! :D

Correct, small groups of us doing a fair bit. Also, there's a lot of
crossover/networking btw BUG's etc. BBUG's got issues with the
Hawthorn/Victoria Bridges that are Yarra Councils concern. So Julia
from BBUG rocks up to our YarraBUG meeting and we jointly organise to
put the issue on next weeks Yarra Council Bicycle Advisory Committee
Agenda. Hmmm, and YarraBUG needs assistance with website stuff. FTP to
be precise, very simple for most of you, a bloody nightmare for me. Any
web maestros out there prepared to help for the price of a few Goats?
:)


--
cfsmtb

[Skewer]

SuzieB wrote:
> flyingdutch Wrote:
>
>>Want yer help people
>>
>>I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
>>to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
>>rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)
>>
>>FD
>
> Hey FD,
>
> I love the website, heapsa USEFUL information! I am so much more
> impressed with yours than with our local bug site:
> http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kingbic/ . *le sigh*
>

First step to professionalism,
kingstonbug.org is available for $8.95*/yr (USD)
http://www.godaddy.com/

Then find someone's web prodigy child to create the look.
Failing that, shamelessly rip off Boroondara BUG's site and just
change the colours ;-)
Some consider that professional too LOL.

[Dancier]

::Bit of info I found at the Australia and New Zealand forum. Another
happy Booroondara resident. These people make life a challenge.::



::http://www.cyclingforums.com/t293374-vego-como-leso.html::





luke1972 Wrote:
> Found this funny article
>
>
>
> Waste of Money
>
>
>
> Letter to the Editor:
>
> Progress Leader - Booroondara
>
>
>
> It is incomprehensible that nearly $1 million has been spent on more
> bicycle lanes when they are not used. If thousands or even hundreds of
> cyclists were in evidence on the roads I would happily accept the need
> for bike lanes, but there are not.
>
>
>
> Bicycle Victoria/Australia and the lucky, selfish, seven cyclists - or
> whoever is lobbying the State Government or local council for the lanes
>
> - I'm sure are laughing their bike pants off as they cruise in their
> own totally empty lane of taxpayers' road.
>
>
>
> I am sick of this politically correct, environmentallly friendly
> rubbish. Try living in the real world. People just don't want to ride
> bikes except for a bit of exercise on the weekend (but not on Balwyn
> Road).
>
>
>
> How do you get the weeks shopping home in your bike basket, for
> instance. Oh, yeah, I forgot - you don't go shopping because you are a
> vegetarian and grow your organic vegetables at home, and, of course,
> you weave your own clothes.
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I am annoyed at the waste of money, when
> community centres and the like are busting their guts to raise a few
> grand that would help so many in the community instead of a very few
> pedal pushers who obviously are fit enough to ride. .


--
Dancier

[EuanB]

Dancier Wrote:
> ::Bit of info I found at the Australia and New Zealand forum. Another
> happy Booroondara resident. These people make life a challenge.::
>
>
>
> ::http://www.cyclingforums.com/t293374-vego-como-leso.html::
>
>
>
>
>
>

It's got it's own thread on a.b here
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t293379-have-you-seen-this-in-booroondara.html


--
EuanB

[coowoowoo]

cfsmtb Wrote:
> Yeah, I like that! Another tact, not just busting myths about cycling -
> but how it is a perfectly normal activity with a long noble history in
> Australia. One thing that keep springing to mind is peoples short
> memories when it comes to remembering our cycling heritage.


Another point that can be highlighted, (sorry if you have already
covered this), is that the wheel is one of the greatest inventions of
all time. It has revolutionised industry all over the world.

It is a simplistic concept that has and is still standing the test of
time as technology advances in rapid leaps and bounds.
Not only do people forget our heritage, they also forget the importance
of the wheel in its many forms whether it be as part of a car, bike or
any other method of transport.

Gosh, i feel like i am writing a year 7 essay. So, if i was going to
mythbust the notion that there is no place for bikes on the road, then
maybe people can be reminded that both car and a bike run using frames
and wheels. The only difference really is that one is self propelled
and one needs an engine.
The concept of the car started from the wheel.


--
coowoowoo

[dewatf]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:15:24 +1000, flyingdutch
> wrote:

>
>Want yer help people
>
>I'm gonna add a new section to www.boroondarabug.org (our new home)
>to tackle all the ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb anti-cycling
>rhetoric we get//hear. Entitled 'MythBusters' (original, isnt it? :D)

The Lane Cove Cycle Lane won't benefit either cyclists or motorists
get to the CBD but is simply a cynical ploy to close down yet another
lane on Epping Road and force motorists to pay to use the tunnel, thus
increasing profits for the toll company and the RTA.

ops sorry that one is true.

dewatf.