Schlumpf 36

[siafirede]

I am going to be ordering the schlumpf shortly. Before ordering it
though, I have a few questions (I'm planning some more).

1) How changeable are the cranks that come with it? I know that they
have to be his special ones, but is it possible to order another set
and change them?
I am going to order the 150s, but I might want to switch down to 125s
sometime in the future. What tools would I need to swap out the
cranks? Has anyone done this on a schlumpf before?

2) To anyone who has ordered the schlumpf: what shipping/delivery
mode should I choose? What is a safe but not too expensive way of
shipping?

3) Again to anyone who has ordered one: What is the safest way to pay?
(his site lists several options)

4) Should I go ahead and get a V brake? I would rather have
hydraulic, but all his frames already come with vbrake threads so i
might as well get the V brake instead.

Seeing as how he does not offer the full unicycle, just the frame, hub,
cranks, I am going to have to buy the coker wheel separate. I have
never built a wheel before, so I will be taking it to my local bike
shop to build (the stockton wheel would be nice, but I am already going
to be investing a lot of money). I am going to buy the airfoil rim on
unicycle.com, and some spokes on unicycle.com. Hopefully the local
bike shop can figure out how to build a wheel around the schlumpf hub.
These spokes will work right?
http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=277

Hopefully if all goes well and I order within the week, I will have my
36 schlumpf put together by early january.


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[Gilby]

siafirede wrote:
> 1) How changeable are the cranks that come with it? I know that they
> have to be his special ones, but is it possible to order another set
> and change them?
> I am going to order the 150s, but I might want to switch down to 125s
> sometime in the future. What tools would I need to swap out the
> cranks? Has anyone done this on a schlumpf before?


I haven't changed the cranks yet, but I think they use standard cranks,
you just need a special tool to take off and change them, which comes
with the uni.


siafirede wrote:
> 2) To anyone who has ordered the schlumpf: what shipping/delivery mode
> should I choose? What is a safe but not too expensive way of shipping?


Ask Florian Schlumpf what's available for you, he can give you several
options. On the order form, you probably want to select economy post,
which I think will take about 2 weeks from when he sends it.


siafirede wrote:
> 3) Again to anyone who has ordered one: What is the safest way to pay?
> (his site lists several options)


Credit card.


siafirede wrote:
> 4) Should I go ahead and get a V brake? I would rather have hydraulic,
> but all his frames already come with vbrake threads so i might as well
> get the V brake instead.


If you need a brake, get it or another v-brake. We don't have many
hills in MN so I didn't get a brake at all. Though I may try to put a
not-yet-to-market mc2 brake on mine.


siafirede wrote:
> Seeing as how he does not offer the full unicycle, just the frame, hub,
> cranks, I am going to have to buy the coker wheel separate. I have
> never built a wheel before, so I will be taking it to my local bike
> shop to build (the stockton wheel would be nice, but I am already going
> to be investing a lot of money). I am going to buy the airfoil rim on
> unicycle.com, and some spokes on unicycle.com. Hopefully the local
> bike shop can figure out how to build a wheel around the schlumpf hub.
> These spokes will work right?
> http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=277


I don't know if those spokes would work. The hub dimensions are much
different than the other hubs available. I haven't heard of anyone
making a Coker out of the schlumpf yet, so you'll have to get the
dimensions and then call UDC to see if that works with the hub and
airfoil rim.


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[David_Stone]

siafirede wrote:
>
> I am going to order the 150s, but I might want to switch down to 125s
> sometime in the future. What tools would I need to swap out the
> cranks? Has anyone done this on a schlumpf before?



I think you'd be a bit nutty to ride a geared up Coker on 125s anyway,
so I'd stick with the 150s. As Gilby notes, there aren't many hills in
MN, so it depends on the riding conditions. If you have lots of flats
and few hills, go for the 125s.

I'm not a big fan of changing cranks on a guni, tho I don't mind it on
a regular unicycle.


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[mscalisi]

I'm jealous! I wish it was in my budget this year to get one. I think
you'll go plenty fast with 150's. Personally, I 'd probably go even a
little longer. Geared up with 125's, you probably won't have enough
leverage to push the wheel in 1:1.55 mode. I can't wait until you
start writing some reviews!


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[mscalisi]

Wow!! Is he bringing it on tour? How will we keep up with him :-)


GizmoDuck wrote:
>
>
> Good luck. One other thing I didn't realise- there is already someone
> with a Shclumpf 36". If you look up Hans Fiby on the Laos Unitour
> website 'www.laosunitour.org-' (http://www.laosunitour.org) give him an
> email. He should be able to answer you Q's more in depth.
>
>
> Ken


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[GizmoDuck]

mscalisi wrote:
> Wow!! Is he bringing it on tour? How will we keep up with him :-)



No, I think he is ordering a 29" Schlumpf as well which he will be
using if it arrives before LUT.

Of course, what we should do is pester him to bring his 36" Schlumpf so
we can check it out. Hopefully we'll get a photo of it shortly to put
up on the LUT equipment page.


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[harper]

No one has built a Schlumpf hub into an Airfoil rim for a Coker yet. If
at all possible get Dave Stockton to do it for you. You have alot
invested in the unicycle alone. Dave will do it perfectly. The spokes
will be non-standard. Your bikeshop will have a difficult time getting
the spokes and they won't don't the high-quality job that Dave will.
Dave can get the stainless steel spokes specially made to the right
length. And I will repeat, he will build the wheel perfectly.

Dave did der Uber Coker wheel for Kris. It was non-standard and Kris,
Dave, and I wanted it done right.


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[GizmoDuck]

harper wrote:
> No one has built a Schlumpf hub into an Airfoil rim for a Coker yet.



Not quite Harper, it's been done as of last week. Hans Fiby has it
:cool:. Check out the specs including the spoking pattern on the
Equipment page of the Laos Unitour website:
http://www.laosunitour.org/equipment_set-up.htm


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[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:57:50 -0600, GizmoDuck wrote:

>> It took my bike mechanic 4hrs to build it up.
>> Normally takes him 40min to build a wheel.

What causes the difference?

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
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[Klaas Bil]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:35:37 -0600, siafirede wrote:

>1) How changeable are the cranks that come with it? I know that they
>have to be his special ones, but is it possible to order another set
>and change them?

My Schlumpf is on order with two sets of cranks (150 and 170).
Schlumpf supply their 'own' type of cranks but I was given to
understand that any regular type of cotterless cranks should work.

>Hopefully if all goes well and I order within the week, I will have my
>36 schlumpf put together by early january.

Put HOPEFULLY in capital letters. I ordered my 29'er Schlumpf on 1
March and it still hasn't arrived. Delivery after nine month sounds
doable - my wife did it twice.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
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[harper]

GizmoDuck wrote:
> Not quite Harper, it's been done as of last week.



You're keeping secrets from me to make me look ignorant. I have had
great success doing that on my own so far. It is thoughtful of you to
help out, though.


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[mscalisi]

Too bad! Still, I think it would be frustrating touring on a geared 36er
with a group of people on non-geared (or smaller geared) unicycles. I
think it will be interesting enough to see how the v43" unicycles
compare to cokers.


GizmoDuck wrote:
> No, I think he is ordering a 29" Schlumpf as well which he will be using
> if it arrives before LUT.
>
> Of course, what we should do is pester him to bring his 36" Schlumpf so
> we can check it out. Hopefully we'll get a photo of it shortly to put
> up on the LUT equipment page.


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[siafirede]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am looking into local wheel
builders right now. I emailed Dave as well to get a quote, so it looks
like I am going to be planning a little bit more before ordering
anything. I might just go with the stockton wheel for this geared 36er
(if it is possible), but I have to look into all of my options and into
my wallet.

Thanks again, and I will keep you all posted on how it turns out.


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[flyer]

If you get a Stockton wheelbuild on a geared 36'er, you will have one of
the nicest unicycles around, that's for damn sure.


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[DarkTom]

My local bike shop built my Large Marge Muni no bother, but he wouldn't
(couldn't?) do my Coker (qu-ax) wheel when I replaced the hub.

I was replacing the standard qu-ax hub with a unicycle.com wide cro-mo
hub and had been told that the stock spokes (that came with it) would
do fine. Roger from UDC-UK told me this, also that UDC-US sells them
like this, they just swap the hubs.

But Mr. Bike Shop didn't think they would be long enough and refused to
do it on the grounds of safety - he didn't want to build a wheel that
in his mind was gonna fall apart and possibly hurt me.

UDC-UK built it up, I trued it, it's sorted. I even took it round to
the bike shop to show him, but he stuck to his original reasons.



> >> It took my bike mechanic 4hrs to build it up.
> >> Normally takes him 40min to build a wheel.
>
> What causes the difference?
>
> Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict



I think it's the size that throws them, most bike
mechanics/wheelbuilders have never even seen a wheel that big.

So, siafirede, if you're gonna get your bike shop to build it, check
before you order all the parts in case he turns out like my bike shop.

T.


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[oxfordrider]

Is the new Schlumpf hub wider? I remember before the Schlumpf's came
out the consensus was they were not wide enough for a 36" wheel.


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[unisk8r]

Schlumpf hub flange width is 51-52mm.


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[U-Turn]

Reluctantly, because I'm losing business to do so, LiveWire is taking
the position that the Schlumpf hub is too narrow for a 36" wheel. It
would result in a wheel with improper geometry. Although the Airfoil
rim would provide a lot of stiffness, the resulting wheel would not be
properly built, and excessively flexy and weak. It's even marginal for
a 29er wheel. A wheel built with this geometry, with whatever skill,
will tend to rub on brake pads and frames in general use.

By comparison, a Suzue (61mm), Profile (62mm), KH 2005 (67mm), or even
Harper hub (60.3mm) are 60mm+. A rear track hub for a bicycle is on
the order of 63mm (Suzue Promax) - 80mm (Phil Wood).

It's my opinion that 100mm flange-to-flange, like the widened Suzue
(101mm) first pioneered by Chris Reeder and subsequently produced by
GB4, then by Tom Miller, or the UDC Coker hub (100 mm), is the
appropriate width for a 36" wheel for general use. I imagine that I
would also share Pete Perron's position that 80mm is acceptable as well
for general use (hard hill climbs, use of brakes, etc), though I really
do think that 100mm is more suitable. In Pete's 2nd generation case,
his brake is a centrally-located disk brake, which eliminates the issue
of brake rub, and leaves only the issues of frame rub (much less
restrictive) and overall strength (plenty for road use of a geared
unicycle).

If I remember correctly, the stock Coker hub was on the order of 50mm,
and the excellent QU-AX hub is at 55mm, both unacceptable.

This opinion is not the result of lack of experience with larger
wheels, but based on such, and based on the year-long project that
resulted in the prototype Strongest Wheel, still going, er, strong. In
that project, I found that, even when using a wider hub and Airfoil
rim, the rim would rub on the brake pads. Not till I raised the
tension to the highest appropriate for the rim and geometry did that
problem go away.

To have a good wheel, it's not enough to have a properly trued,
uniformly tensioned and highly tensioned wheel based on good
components. It's important to have good geometry as well.

As a result, I'm restricting my own builds with the current Schlumpf
hub to 29ers and below, and feel that the hub is most suited for 26"
and below, given the present flange width. I know that there exist
36's with this exciting new hub, and that people are enjoying them. I
just have to draw the line somewhere.

Similarly, if someone, looking to use the wheel off-road, ordered a 36"
wheel with a Profile hub, which I support wholeheartedly, I would build
it with caveats, but would try to steer him or her towards a KH, which
is wider. A wider Profile or KH would be ideal, but in the quantities
required to get a special order, impossible for LiveWire at the
present, not to mention technical restrictions on axle length and the
like. I would not want to use a Suzue (little justification when the
wider hubs are available) or a Qu-ax (too narrow).

There might be special circumstances that dictate exceptions, such as
for track use only where wheel strength is less important and brakes
are not a consideration.

I know that this position is not universally shared, and I apologize
for any inconvenience that my holding it causes. I look forward to the
next evolution of the promising Schumpf product to see how it
develops.

In the meantime, there are lots of cool projects in the works and to
come. Working with Scott Wallis is a real pleasure and there's lots of
fine riding to do, with great people, here in Texas.

Thanks, Greg, for your words, so pleasing to the eye to read.


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[hans]

Hi,

I am Hans Fiby. I do not post to this forum often, as I am not a native
speeker, but I read regularly.
I have built a 36" Unicylce more than a year ago. It was nice to ride,
but had some flaws. I ordered a 29" Schlumpf this spring and still have
not got it. I was in Switzerland this summer and met Florian Schlumpf
and tried it out. I could shift almost instantly and loved to ride it.
I will be in Laos next Janury and I did not have a unicycle, that was
solid enough for this adventure. So I got a little nervous.
In november I asked Florian to send me a geared hub and a frame for a
36" unicycle and I got it a week later. The wheel was built by my local
bike shop, my friend Andreas here is a good wheel builder.

For everyone interessted: The wheel consists of a geared Schlumpf hub
and an Airfoil rim. The spokes are standard Coker spokes from UCD. The
wheel is built with a 4 cross pattern. It feels very solid. I have a
V-Break. The break works fine, there is no rubbing.

The selfmade hub on my old 36" uni was 10 cm wide (flange to flange).
So I do believe in wide hubs, but I do not see or feel any problem with
the Schlumpf. I only ride on tarmac.

How does feel?
I am not a very good unicyclist, so your milage will vary; but it is
not easy to ride in fast mode. There is a very small slack in 1:1 mode
and a bigger slack in 1:1.5 mode. After a few minutes, the 1:1 mode ist
like a normal coker - relaxing!
I can mount almost 100% in 1:1 mode; I can mount almost 0% in 1:1.5
mode.
I trained 4 or 5 hours now, I can shift up and down. Shifting down is
easier for me. I UPD in about 15% of my shifting operartions. The
percentage gets better and better.
Riding in 1:1.5 mode needs a lot of concentration. I cannot look on the
cycle computer by now! The feeling is very similar to my first rides on
the coker 1 1/2 years ago. I do not UPD in 1:1.5 mode (too often), but
it is hard to stay on.
I have 140 mm cranks. I think, I will get used to the uni and riding in
1:1.5 mode will get easier over the weeks. I keep you updated.

Hans


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[unisk8r]

Try 170 or even 175mm cranks. Using 140's in 1.5 mode (56" effective
wheel diameter) is equal to 90mm cranks on a direct drive coker.


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[hans]

Florian sent me 170mm original schlumpf cranks. I still have cranks in
different sizes from my old selfmade 36" uni. Pictures of the old one
are here http://www.wuk.at/hochrad/berichte/einrad_hans.php (German
sorry!)

I rode my old one with 125 and I loved it. I thought, that putting on
the 170 mm cranks would be a waste of potential. I can always do that
and I wanted to get the 170mm cranks from Florian, because I thought,
that I would have problems with the shorter ones.
Maybe I exaggerated the difficulty in 1:1.5 mode. On Saturday I rode 15
km. I mounted shifted up and rode 7 km then I shifted down, made a
U-turn, shifted up and rode back, shifted down and dismounted. No UPD
all the way, all flat, a litte wind. Today I rode 28 km, I mounted,
shifted up and rode 14 km. On the way back I shifted up and down a few
times and had 1 UPD shifting up and 1 UPD shifting down. So I need to
concentrate, when in 1:1.5 mode, but it is not impossible. I hope I
will get used to it soon. I am happy to have the option to put on 170
mm cranks, and things will surely be much easier then, but I want to
stay with the 140 mm for a while now.

I have not tried to change cranks on the Schlumpf and I am a bit
anxious about it because I for sure do not want to ruin the hub. But
maybe the 170ers will be my option in the end.


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[flyer]

hans, that's one hell of a unicycle you got yourself there :)


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[siafirede]

Hans,

Thanks for posting the pictures of your setup. Does the wheel feel
strong when you ride it or does it flex? Does anyone else have an
opinion on Hans' 4 cross pattern setup? I still have a lot to look
into but if I were to go ahead with the schlumpf 36 it looks like my
best option now is to order the tom miller spokes and follow Hans'
pattern and have a good wheelbuilder in my area assemble the wheel.

Dave,
Thanks for your emails and the post. I understand your position and
think its great that you only wish to produce the best quality
unicycles. If I have any other projects in mind I will be sure to
contact you.


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[hans]

It feels strong enough, I do not feel it flex. I have a break and it
does not rub. I did some short and steep uphill and there was no break
rubbing.
Just remember the hub is wider than a standard Coker hub and the
flanges are bigger so the wheel is a little stronger than a standard
Coker wheel. I have an Airfoil rim, that adds to the wheel strength.

I am sure, the uni is strong enough for road riding. I do not plan to
muni, jump or UPD with it ;-)


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[harper]

hans wrote:
> I do not plan to muni, jump or UPD with it



Hans-

Planning a UPD is contradictory.


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[tomblackwood]

harper wrote:
> Planning a UPD is contradictory.


I always plan on mine...the only thing I leave open is the exact time
of occurence.


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[joemarshall]

Am I the only person that doesn't like super wide hubs or cranks with
q-factor on a coker?

Yes they may increase the strength of the wheel so that fat people or
people who want to do trials on their coker or stand on their wheel
sideways can own a coker.

But they make it feel like riding a horse. It's okay if you've got wide
legs and ride horses a lot, but if your knees feel the right distance
apart with a narrow hub, a wider hub just doesn't feel nice. It feels
all wiggly and inefficient too.

I noticed riding behind John H on the 10 hour 100 mile ride, he has
cranks with a q factor and rides noticeably more wiggly than me.

I seem to remember Ken Looi said something similar about the wide hub a
bit back, but I might be going mad.

Whilst theoretical strength is nice, if it's at the expense of riding
performance, then surely you have to ask whether it's worth it for a
road wheel, when even the stock coker doesn't break when used for road
riding.

Joe


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[GizmoDuck]

joemarshall wrote:
> Am I the only person that doesn't like super wide hubs or cranks with
> q-factor on a coker?
>
> Yes they may increase the strength of the wheel so that fat people or
> people who want to do trials on their coker or stand on their wheel
> sideways can own a coker.
>
> But they make it feel like riding a horse. It's okay if you've got wide
> legs and ride horses a lot, but if your knees feel the right distance
> apart with a narrow hub, a wider hub just doesn't feel nice. It feels
> all wiggly and inefficient too.
>
> I noticed riding behind John H on the 10 hour 100 mile ride, he has
> cranks with a q factor and rides noticeably more wiggly than me.
>
> I seem to remember Ken Looi said something similar about the wide hub a
> bit back, but I might be going mad.
>
> Whilst theoretical strength is nice, if it's at the expense of riding
> performance, then surely you have to ask whether it's worth it for a
> road wheel, when even the stock coker doesn't break when used for road
> riding.
>
> Joe



I like narrow hubs too- but I don't weigh much and I dont' use brakes.
I did have a quick ride on Beau Hoovers wide hub, and didn't notice too
much difference, although it was at relatively low speeds. I think
long cranks affect wheel wobble more than Q-factor. Short cranks feel
so smooth on the downhill. Some people tend to wobble more than others
too- something I noticed alot on the AUT. People like Scot Cooper have
virtually no wobble, Bronson, Nathan Hoover and I have a tiny amount,
Andy C and Irene slightly more, and Beau wiggles all over the place but
it doens't seem to slow him down :p


--
GizmoDuck

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'New Zealand Unicycle Federation' (http://www.unicycle.org.nz)

"It's not a unicycle ride if it's less than 30km." - note to self
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[Klaas Bil]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:23:32 -0600, harper wrote:

>hans wrote:
>> I do not plan to muni, jump or UPD with it
>
>Planning a UPD is contradictory.

But NOT planning a UPD is not.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
"erectile function trumps public image - David Stone, commenting on the importance of seat comfort"