Re: Titanium or carbon

[Tim Axtelle]

Jasper Janssen > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Jun 2003 17:32:42 -0700, (Chalo) wrote:
>
> >Since both of those frame materials are offered because they are
> >exotic (and not because of any significant superiority compared to
> >quality steel or aluminum), then the better one is the one that turns
> >you on more. That's the only noticeable advantage either material
> >possesses over the cheaper alternatives anyway.
>
> Ti has the big advantage of not needing paint and thus looking great.
>
> Jasper


The other big advantage to Ti over carbon is the metallic 'ping' sound
that the cable spacers make when you go over a bump in the road. I
love that. Probably just me.

[Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A.]

Tim Axtelle wrote:
>
> Jasper Janssen > wrote in message >...
> > On 11 Jun 2003 17:32:42 -0700, (Chalo) wrote:
> >
> > >Since both of those frame materials are offered because they are
> > >exotic (and not because of any significant superiority compared to
> > >quality steel or aluminum), then the better one is the one that turns
> > >you on more. That's the only noticeable advantage either material
> > >possesses over the cheaper alternatives anyway.
> >
> > Ti has the big advantage of not needing paint and thus looking great.
> >
> > Jasper
>
> The other big advantage to Ti over carbon is the metallic 'ping' sound
> that the cable spacers make when you go over a bump in the road. I
> love that. Probably just me.

Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:

> Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.

That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single
Rope Technique, I was warned against using titanium carabines in my
equipment. There had actually been accidents because they can suddenly
shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We always
used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.

[Leonard Migliore]

In article >, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> wrote:

> Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
>
> > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
>
> That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single
> Rope Technique, I was warned against using titanium carabines in my
> equipment. There had actually been accidents because they can suddenly
> shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We always
> used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.

If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans
exploding off of more airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.

[David Kerber]

In article >, says...
> In article >, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > wrote:
>
> > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
> >
> > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
> >
> > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single
> > Rope Technique, I was warned against using titanium carabines in my
> > equipment. There had actually been accidents because they can suddenly
> > shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We always
> > used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
>
> If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans
> exploding off of more airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.

Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design
criteria.



--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

[Mike Latondresse]

(Dave Beal) wrote in
om:

> "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
> >...
>> > > What make you think that Colnago is responsible for a frame
>> > > breaking in an accident? The warranty is against
>> > > "manufacturer's defects" not accidents.
>> > >
>> > > Trek would say the same thing, as would any other
>> > > manufacturer.
>> >
>> > Well, not ANY manufacturer. Check out Kestrel's 'No-Fault
>> > Warranty' on selected carbon frames. It covers any damage
>> > including accidents and outright abuse.
>> >
>> > http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
>>
>> According to Kestrel's website-
>> ===================================
>> Your replacement cost will vary depending on the age of the
>> product, but will be no more than 65% of the current
>> manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time of the
>> exchange. Ask your dealer or KESTREL for details and the current
>> replacement cost. This offer applies only to the original
>> consumer purchaser for as long as the original consumer purchaser
>> owns the product.
>> =======================================
>>
>> 65% of the current suggested retail price is hardly a "no fault"
>> warranty freebie. What it is is a good way to maintain customer
>> loyalty, and is not at all unusual. TREK gives a 25% discount
>> (crash replacement credit, they call it), and I believe
>> Cannondale has a similar program.
>>
>> This is far different from saying that TREK, or Kestrel, or
>> Cannondale is responsible for a frame breaking in an accident.
>> It's also more desireable as well. The costs of covering
>> accidentally-wrecked non-warranty frames would have to be passed
>> on to all users in the form of higher prices.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> I got curious and went to the Litespeed website to check out their
> lifetime warranty on Ti frames:
> http://www.litespeed.com/asp/warranty.html
> Nowhere does it say what the warranty DOES cover, just what it
> doesn't. It's nothing but a full page of exclusions and
> disclaimers. I love lawyers.
>

I have a Litespeed Classic in for a broken chainstay/dropout, that much
to my discust happened on Mt. Ventoux on the 11th day of a 48 day
vacation. Litespeed however are going to fix it, inspect all other
welds and repaint the frame and restore it to like new...get back to
you when this happens.

[Bernie]

David Kerber wrote:

> In article >, says...
> > In article >, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ti has nearly the same ductility as steel. Carbon snaps.
> > >
> > > That depends on temperature. When I was caving in England, using Single
> > > Rope Technique, I was warned against using titanium carabines in my
> > > equipment. There had actually been accidents because they can suddenly
> > > shatter at the low temperatures in caves (about 4 degrees C). We always
> > > used aluminium crabs to hang our lives on.
> >
> > If titanium cracks at 4 degrees C, why aren't the jet engine fans
> > exploding off of more airplanes? They see air a lot colder than that.
>
> Different alloys different heat treatments, because of different design
> criteria.
>

What you say has merit, but mountaineering gear - life and death equipment at
that - that gets brittle enough to break in the cold? How likely is that?
They must have a very clear warning on them somewhere. Didn't notice any
of those the last time I was at MEC.

Bernie