Bike shops are funny.

[Ken M]

I dropped my bike off at the LBS where I bought it this morning. And
they greeted me nicely, and seemed to actually want to help me. Which I
find to be kind of unusual.

I have spent money in there on at least 4 occasions since taking up
riding again. The first time, I bought a saddle from the "big bin of
saddles" cost $15.00. The second time I bought a frame pump, cost
$22.00. The third time I bought a spoke wrench and a tube, cost $12.00.
Then came the new bike. I went in with the idea of buying a new MTB to
replace the old steel boat anchor that I had been riding. The first time
I went in to shop around for the new bike they were pretty helpful. I
left without buying a bike, but said "I'll be back next week." the guy
said "ok come back and we'll be glad to help you out." Well I went back
several days later and they greeted me ok, but when I said I just wanted
to browse some more they kind of lost interest in helping me. I left
without buying. The next day I went to the other LBS that only sells one
brand if bikes. The guy in there seemed to be helpful to a certain
degree. But seemed to loose interest when I said I was still shopping
around, but would be buying within the next week or so. I left without
buying. A couple of days later I was back at the first shop again (time
number 3 for browsing) and they showed no interest at all. I don't even
think they said hello. I left without buying. Two days later I went with
the intent of coming home with a new bike. They seemed somewhat more
helpful after I said I was ready to buy. But still not stellar as far as
service goes. I asked to test ride the bikes that I had narrowed my
selection down to. The did accomodate me, but did not seem to happy
about it. I made up my mind, I gave them my credit card and the guy
perked up a lot. That was the last time I was in that LBS, until this
past Saturday when I stopped in to ask about the conversion job, I know
that Saturday is thier busiest day so I wasn't expecting great service
for just a question. But the guy did give me an answer, and then I left
without taking up too much of his time. Today I went back there and said
"ok lets order the parts you will need to do the conversion. ". The guy
said "ok well I need to have the bike for the day to measure your fork
and see what other parts you will need.", I said ok, so I wheeled the
bike into the shop, and explained to him again just what it was that I
wanted done. So he said "Okay so you want a rigid fork with the disc
brake mounts and you want to convert to an integrated threadless stem."
, I said "thats it", he said "well you might have to go to v-brakes.", I
said "well if thats what I have to do." , he said "you know I have seen
people take the top caps off those forks and put wood dowels in there
and take the springs out." , I said "No I would rather just have it done
right.", he said "ok then, give me until about 4 or 4:30 and then we'll
know exactly what parts we need and then we can give a very close price
estimate.", I said "ok then." , then I left.

So the above "story" of my experiences with that LBS leaves me up in the
air about how bike shops treat customers. I guess maybe it depends on
the phase of the moon of something else that I don't understand. Or
maybe, more likely it is that they are only interested in helping
customers that have already shown samples of their money at the door.
But I have spent over $500 in there in the last year, and that doesn't
even count the conversion. Which from what I can figure will probably
run between $100 and $150, for the fork, headset and stem. Now I know
that doesn't add up to a Trek Maddone or anything close, but it's still
a chunk of change. Maybe the more I shop there the more they will
remember me.

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

[gds]

Too bad about your experience. I think LBS folks are like lots of other
small businesses. There are good ones and not so good ones. The LBS I
patronize is great on service and paying attention. The result is they
got the sale of a new bike to me that other LBS's missed because they
were less helpfull. Of course, that only works if you have achoice in
your area and at least one of them meets your needs.

[Leo Lichtman]

"Ken M" wrote: (clip) So the above "story" of my experiences with that LBS
leaves me up in the air about how bike shops treat customers. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is another side to your experience which you might consider. Many
customers do not like a salesperson to "hover" when I am just browsing.
After you told them you were not ready to buy, and just wanted to spend some
time looking, I think it was appropriate for them to leave you alone. This
doesn't mean a cold shoulder, but just giving you some space. Perhaps a
remark like, "Well, I'll be right over here if you have any questions" would
have helped.

[Ken M]

gds wrote:
> Too bad about your experience. I think LBS folks are like lots of other
> small businesses. There are good ones and not so good ones. The LBS I
> patronize is great on service and paying attention. The result is they
> got the sale of a new bike to me that other LBS's missed because they
> were less helpfull. Of course, that only works if you have achoice in
> your area and at least one of them meets your needs.
>
Well there are two LBS in my area, but one only sells Giants, and I
didn't like the looks of them in the type of bike I was looking at buying.

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

[Ken M]

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "Ken M" wrote: (clip) So the above "story" of my experiences with that LBS
> leaves me up in the air about how bike shops treat customers. (clip)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> There is another side to your experience which you might consider. Many
> customers do not like a salesperson to "hover" when I am just browsing.
> After you told them you were not ready to buy, and just wanted to spend some
> time looking, I think it was appropriate for them to leave you alone. This
> doesn't mean a cold shoulder, but just giving you some space. Perhaps a
> remark like, "Well, I'll be right over here if you have any questions" would
> have helped.
>
>
Perhaps you're right about that, but it seems to me that for the LBS
that I have been dealing with anyway, it is more that they want to see a
sample of the money before they spend too much time with a customer.

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

[max]

In article om>,
"gds" > wrote:

> Too bad about your experience. I think LBS folks are like lots of other
> small businesses. There are good ones and not so good ones. The LBS I
> patronize is great on service and paying attention. The result is they
> got the sale of a new bike to me that other LBS's missed because they
> were less helpfull. Of course, that only works if you have achoice in
> your area and at least one of them meets your needs.

i bought a unicycle at one LBS, on the recommendation of a friend who is
friends w/ the proprietor. My friend also told the proprietor i would be
in the market for a new MTB soon.

Said LBS only opens from like 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 or so... any way, i never
talked to this guy about buying a bike from him, but instead bought from the
LBS across the street, which has like 5X the business hours. And the guy
finds out i bought from across the street and _flips_out_.

And now, whenever he sees me the first LBS guy rants and raves and spews
obscenities at me (mother ****er, **** you etc) at the top of his lungs on
the trail for buying at the other store and what a moron i am etc etc.
Raving obscenity.

Needless to say, i have disrecommended him to everyone with whom i discuss
LBS's.

I've considered IDing him here, but decided it wasn't worth getting my ass
kicked.

..max

[Ken M]

Ken M wrote:

Yeah I just went to the bike shop to pick up my bike, and to leave a
deposit on the parts they need to order to do the fork conversion job on
my ride, and they were definitely happy as I was handing over my money.
But despite the lackluster service I get when I go there I will continue
to do business with them for some things, at least until another
alternative comes along. The parts they have to order (fork, headset,
stem and v-brake kit) won't be in until the middle of next week. Kind of
a long time IMO. But that will take care of most of the things I
discovered I wanted to change when I was on tour with the bike.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[The Wogster]

Ken M wrote:

> So the above "story" of my experiences with that LBS leaves me up in the
> air about how bike shops treat customers. I guess maybe it depends on
> the phase of the moon of something else that I don't understand. Or
> maybe, more likely it is that they are only interested in helping
> customers that have already shown samples of their money at the door.
> But I have spent over $500 in there in the last year, and that doesn't
> even count the conversion. Which from what I can figure will probably
> run between $100 and $150, for the fork, headset and stem. Now I know
> that doesn't add up to a Trek Maddone or anything close, but it's still
> a chunk of change. Maybe the more I shop there the more they will
> remember me.

You need to think about it from the salesmans (by salesman I also mean
saleswoman, but will not write both, I am a lazy typist) POV for a
minute, they need to learn their customers. There are different kinds
of customers:

Lay-downs, they come in, they know what they want, and are ready to lay
down cash on the counter, salesmen love lay-downs, minimal time, maximum
commission.

Learners, they will buy, but the salesman needs to teach them about the
product first, take up more time, but worth a commission in the end.

Investigators, they want to know every little detail, before they buy
anything, they will actually buy from a big box store, or online
retailer, so no commission for the salesman.

Strokers, they come in, stroke the merchandise, and leave, they never
spend money, and will never be worth any commission for the salesman.

If the salesman thinks you might be a stroker or investigator, they
often will not want to spend much time, on you.

W

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:33:58 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc, Ken M
> wrote:

> Well I went back
> several days later and they greeted me ok, but when I said I just wanted
> to browse some more they kind of lost interest in helping me.

How much time do you expect them to spend *when you say you are
not yet ready to buy*? They probably have plenty of repairs,
merchandise unpacking/display, and paperwork to do, but they are
there if you have a question.

Or do you just go there to get attention?

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:40:40 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc, Ken M
> wrote:

> Perhaps you're right about that, but it seems to me that for the LBS
> that I have been dealing with anyway, it is more that they want to see a
> sample of the money before they spend too much time with a customer.
>
because they've wasted hours and hours with people who ask all
kinds of questions about something they sell only to find out the
potential customer bought it by mail order or some big box sports
store.

they just don't have time to waste on someone who's not serious
about buying.

[Ken M]

Dennis P. Harris wrote:

> because they've wasted hours and hours with people who ask all
> kinds of questions about something they sell only to find out the
> potential customer bought it by mail order or some big box sports
> store.
>

If this is the case they need to learn to determine the differnce
between a buyer and a shopper. If I go in there I am a buyer.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[Ken M]

Dennis P. Harris wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:33:58 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc, Ken M
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Well I went back
>>several days later and they greeted me ok, but when I said I just wanted
>>to browse some more they kind of lost interest in helping me.
>
>
> How much time do you expect them to spend *when you say you are
> not yet ready to buy*? They probably have plenty of repairs,
> merchandise unpacking/display, and paperwork to do, but they are
> there if you have a question.
>
> Or do you just go there to get attention?
>
>

As I stated I have spent a chunk of change in there in the last year.

Ken
-
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[Don]

Ken M wrote:
[yadda yadda yadda]
> Maybe the more I shop there the more they will remember me.

Ya t'ink?

Honestly, I'll be darned if I could figure out what your actual point
was, what expectations you had of the LBS salespeople, how they fell
short of whatever expectations you had, or how this differs from any
other customer/salesperson relationship.

(Talk to a local computer builder for some real horror stories.)

[Ken M]

Don wrote:

> Honestly, I'll be darned if I could figure out what your actual point
> was, what expectations you had of the LBS salespeople, how they fell
> short of whatever expectations you had, or how this differs from any
> other customer/salesperson relationship.
>
> (Talk to a local computer builder for some real horror stories.)
>

My point was, that for the money a avid cyclst might spend in a LBS, in
the course of a year they might treat the customer better. And when a
"new" customer comes in for the first or second time, they might win a
loyal customer if the service were better. I will continue to do
business there only because it is the better of the two LBS in my area.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[Will]

Ken M wrote:

> My point was, that for the money a avid cyclst might spend in a LBS, in
> the course of a year they might treat the customer better. And when a
> "new" customer comes in for the first or second time, they might win a
> loyal customer if the service were better.

You could help them out. Wear your bike shoes when you go in. The
cleats clicking along the floor seems to invigorate most bike shop
staff. It's better than waving money <g>. It shows you actually ride.

[gds]

The Wogster wrote:
>>
> You need to think about it from the salesmans (by salesman I also mean
> saleswoman, but will not write both, I am a lazy typist) POV for a
> minute, they need to learn their customers. There are different kinds
> of customers:
>
> Lay-downs, they come in, they know what they want, and are ready to lay
> down cash on the counter, salesmen love lay-downs, minimal time, maximum
> commission.
>
> Learners, they will buy, but the salesman needs to teach them about the
> product first, take up more time, but worth a commission in the end.
>
> Investigators, they want to know every little detail, before they buy
> anything, they will actually buy from a big box store, or online
> retailer, so no commission for the salesman.
>
> Strokers, they come in, stroke the merchandise, and leave, they never
> spend money, and will never be worth any commission for the salesman.
>
> If the salesman thinks you might be a stroker or investigator, they
> often will not want to spend much time, on you.
>
> W

I think that is well put!

I would only add that the mark of a really good salesperson is to
convert the last 2 types into sales. That is what sets the pro
salesperson apart from the order taker.

[zsilverball]

Based on your comments I don't think you would be happy no matter how
they treated you. You seem to be a complainer to me.

[Ken M]

zsilverball wrote:
> Based on your comments I don't think you would be happy no matter how
> they treated you. You seem to be a complainer to me.
>

Well everyone has an opinion. I just state mine more than some.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[Ken M]

Will wrote:

> You could help them out. Wear your bike shoes when you go in. The
> cleats clicking along the floor seems to invigorate most bike shop
> staff. It's better than waving money <g>. It shows you actually ride.
>

Yeah maybe that would give them a clue.

Ken
--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the
human race. ~H.G. Wells

[Claire Petersky]

"The Wogster" > wrote in message
...

> If the salesman thinks you might be a stroker or investigator, they often
> will not want to spend much time, on you.


At one bike shop I went to, most of the young guys who were on the sales
floor felt like road bikes were uncool, so they wouldn't spend time with you
anyway. If you wanted to google it, the post I wrote about that place about
a year and a half ago is under the title, "former bike shop", out of this
newsgroup. That place is out of business now, though -- had their big
closing sale about a month ago.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky