Gas prices may surge on 2006 green rules

[Ken M]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/

I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.

Ken
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

[max]

In article >,
Ken M > wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken

Gosh Ken! It sure is too bad the democratically controlled EPA just sprung
this on the Oil industry like that! I'm really upset that that
democratically controlled Archer Daniels Midland is poised to steal all that
money from the average working joe! But Ken, can't we mine more MTBE from
the drinking water of many municipal aquifers? I sure wish the Republicans
had been in charge of the House and Senate and Presidency for the last six
years -- then we wouldn't have these problems! Thanks! I'm going to call
rush and ask for a hippie-shooting liscense! Wouldn't it be nice if the
mean old Democratically controlled house, senate and presidency had spent
the last 6 years working on a solution to the fuel-refining and processing
bottleneck? I wish George Bush was still president.

Yep, we never saw it coming. Those damn greens.

[Ken M]

max wrote:
> In article >,
> Ken M > wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>>
>>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
>>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
>>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
>>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>>
>>Ken
>
>
> Gosh Ken! It sure is too bad the democratically controlled EPA just sprung
> this on the Oil industry like that! I'm really upset that that
> democratically controlled Archer Daniels Midland is poised to steal all that
> money from the average working joe! But Ken, can't we mine more MTBE from
> the drinking water of many municipal aquifers? I sure wish the Republicans
> had been in charge of the House and Senate and Presidency for the last six
> years -- then we wouldn't have these problems! Thanks! I'm going to call
> rush and ask for a hippie-shooting liscense! Wouldn't it be nice if the
> mean old Democratically controlled house, senate and presidency had spent
> the last 6 years working on a solution to the fuel-refining and processing
> bottleneck? I wish George Bush was still president.
>
> Yep, we never saw it coming. Those damn greens.

Well you know that when the price starts creeping up again people will
start crying again, just like they did after Katrina. But what will they
do about it? Nothing. They will just continue to fill the tanks on their
gas guzzling Sport Utility Vehicles, and cry about how it used to only
cost x number of dollars and how they can hardly afford to fill up any
more. Personally it has no DIRECT effect on me, my transport runs on
calories. Now I know someone will say it does have an effect on car-free
people as well, and I agree it will have some INDIRECT effect on me, but
not as much as people who use a gasoline powered internal combustion
engine vehicle. I think if the new rules contribute less to pollution
it's a good thing. And as a side benefit, if more people buy more fuel
efficient vehicles, that's a good thing too. The less miles driven by
inefficient vehicles the better.

Ken
-
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

[AustinMN]

Ken M wrote:
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.

Klaxon:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm

Austin

[Ken M]

AustinMN wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>
>>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
>>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
>>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
>>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
>
> Klaxon:
> http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm
>
> Austin
>
I'm sorry for posting something OT here! My bad! Thought maybe this
might be of interest for those who ride bikes.

Ken
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

[AustinMN]

Ken M wrote:
> AustinMN wrote:
> > Ken M wrote:
> >
> >>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> >>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> >>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> >>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
> >
> >
> > Klaxon:
> > http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm
> >
> > Austin
> >
> I'm sorry for posting something OT here! My bad! Thought maybe this
> might be of interest for those who ride bikes.

Not meant to be a complaint, really...I find most of your posts helpful
and informative. I just thought I'd inject a bit of humor early in the
discussion. I guess that makes me...

Yuk-Yuk:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/yukyuk.htm

"Of course, should other Warriors object to his off topic inanities
they are accused of lacking a sense of humor."

Austin

[Ken M]

AustinMN wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>
>>AustinMN wrote:
>>
>>>Ken M wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
>>>>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
>>>>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
>>>>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>>>
>>>
>>>Klaxon:
>>>http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm
>>>
>>>Austin
>>>
>>
>>I'm sorry for posting something OT here! My bad! Thought maybe this
>>might be of interest for those who ride bikes.
>
>
> Not meant to be a complaint, really...I find most of your posts helpful
> and informative. I just thought I'd inject a bit of humor early in the
> discussion. I guess that makes me...
>
> Yuk-Yuk:
> http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/yukyuk.htm
>
> "Of course, should other Warriors object to his off topic inanities
> they are accused of lacking a sense of humor."
>
> Austin
>
Oh really my bad then, I should have looked at the page you linked to.
Mostly when I see links to that domain I don't even bother clicking the
links.

Ken "needs to click more" M.
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

[what does THIS button do?]

Ken M wrote:
> max wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Ken M > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
> >>
> >>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> >>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> >>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> >>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
> >>
> >>Ken
> >
> >
> > Gosh Ken! It sure is too bad the democratically controlled EPA just sprung
> > this on the Oil industry like that! I'm really upset that that
> > democratically controlled Archer Daniels Midland is poised to steal all that
> > money from the average working joe! But Ken, can't we mine more MTBE from
> > the drinking water of many municipal aquifers? I sure wish the Republicans
> > had been in charge of the House and Senate and Presidency for the last six
> > years -- then we wouldn't have these problems! Thanks! I'm going to call
> > rush and ask for a hippie-shooting liscense! Wouldn't it be nice if the
> > mean old Democratically controlled house, senate and presidency had spent
> > the last 6 years working on a solution to the fuel-refining and processing
> > bottleneck? I wish George Bush was still president.
> >
> > Yep, we never saw it coming. Those damn greens.
>
> Well you know that when the price starts creeping up again people will
> start crying again, just like they did after Katrina. But what will they
> do about it? Nothing.

I hear ya, man. Otoh, it will give us bikers a little well earned
shadenfreude. :-)

[Bill Sornson]

what does THIS button do? wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>> max wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Ken M > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>>>>
>>>> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my
>>>> Hotmail. New rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of
>>>> gasoline. I think given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that
>>>> puts it almost back at $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the
>>>> price peaked after Katrina.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> Gosh Ken! It sure is too bad the democratically controlled EPA
>>> just sprung this on the Oil industry like that! I'm really upset
>>> that that democratically controlled Archer Daniels Midland is
>>> poised to steal all that money from the average working joe! But
>>> Ken, can't we mine more MTBE from the drinking water of many
>>> municipal aquifers? I sure wish the Republicans had been in charge
>>> of the House and Senate and Presidency for the last six years --
>>> then we wouldn't have these problems! Thanks! I'm going to call
>>> rush and ask for a hippie-shooting liscense! Wouldn't it be nice
>>> if the mean old Democratically controlled house, senate and
>>> presidency had spent the last 6 years working on a solution to the
>>> fuel-refining and processing bottleneck? I wish George Bush was
>>> still president.
>>>
>>> Yep, we never saw it coming. Those damn greens.
>>
>> Well you know that when the price starts creeping up again people
>> will start crying again, just like they did after Katrina. But what
>> will they do about it? Nothing.
>
> I hear ya, man. Otoh, it will give us bikers a little well earned
> shadenfreude. :-)

Especially Marlene!

[The Wogster]

Ken M wrote:
>
> Well you know that when the price starts creeping up again people will
> start crying again, just like they did after Katrina. But what will they
> do about it? Nothing. They will just continue to fill the tanks on their
> gas guzzling Sport Utility Vehicles, and cry about how it used to only
> cost x number of dollars and how they can hardly afford to fill up any
> more. Personally it has no DIRECT effect on me, my transport runs on
> calories. Now I know someone will say it does have an effect on car-free
> people as well, and I agree it will have some INDIRECT effect on me, but
> not as much as people who use a gasoline powered internal combustion
> engine vehicle. I think if the new rules contribute less to pollution
> it's a good thing. And as a side benefit, if more people buy more fuel
> efficient vehicles, that's a good thing too. The less miles driven by
> inefficient vehicles the better.
>

The INDIRECT effect can be almost as much, nearly everything moves by
truck at some point, so all the food that you buy, is moved by truck,
and trucking fuel surcharges were added years ago, because fuel was
expensive then. If the fuel surcharge is 10% and the price of fuel goes
up 20% then it's not unreasonable that the fuel surcharge will go up as
well probably 2% to 4%, that could mean your bag of pasta goes from
$2.49 to $2.59 per bag, just because of the increased fuel surcharge,
brought on by more expensive fuel.

W

[The Wogster]

Ken M wrote:
>
> Well you know that when the price starts creeping up again people will
> start crying again, just like they did after Katrina. But what will they
> do about it? Nothing. They will just continue to fill the tanks on their
> gas guzzling Sport Utility Vehicles, and cry about how it used to only
> cost x number of dollars and how they can hardly afford to fill up any
> more. Personally it has no DIRECT effect on me, my transport runs on
> calories. Now I know someone will say it does have an effect on car-free
> people as well, and I agree it will have some INDIRECT effect on me, but
> not as much as people who use a gasoline powered internal combustion
> engine vehicle. I think if the new rules contribute less to pollution
> it's a good thing. And as a side benefit, if more people buy more fuel
> efficient vehicles, that's a good thing too. The less miles driven by
> inefficient vehicles the better.
>

The INDIRECT effect can be almost as much, nearly everything moves by
truck at some point, so all the food that you buy, is moved by truck,
and trucking fuel surcharges were added years ago, because fuel was
expensive then. If the fuel surcharge is 10% and the price of fuel goes
up 20% then it's not unreasonable that the fuel surcharge will go up as
well probably 2% to 4%, that could mean your bag of pasta goes from
$2.49 to $2.59 per bag, just because of the increased fuel surcharge,
brought on by more expensive fuel.

W

[Mike Kruger]

"Ken M" > wrote in message
...
>>
> I'm sorry for posting something OT here! My bad! Thought maybe this might
> be of interest for those who ride bikes.
>
It's not THAT far off topic, and there have been several threads like this.
Political threads get nasty though.

While we are discussing the price of gas, I read in the WSJ earlier this
week that China subsidizes gas, so that the price is roughly $1 a gallon. In
that same article, they mentioned that the big oil companies like BP and
Shell are less concerned with exploration at the moment for a variety of
reasons which (in my somewhat biased summarization) amount to: we can make
just as much money if we don't do a lot of exploration, because our margins
will go up.

This is capitalism at work guys. The oil companies aren't evil, but they
aren't public charities.

[Michael]

Ken M wrote:
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken
> --
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
> on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.


American gasoline consumers are spoiled brats. (We've spoiled ourselves in many
other ways too, but they're other stories.) Like cheap gas is a birthright.
Yeah; right.

I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981 and drove a leased VW
Golf while several American colleagues who were also there drove BMW or Taunus
(big Ford sedan). At that time 1 liter of "benzene" there cost about the same
as 1 gallon of gas in the U.S. That's nearly *four* times the price, in
Germany.

If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here, he should
spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people live. (Actually,
that's a good idea for everyone, re4gardless of the topic.)

--
Michael

[Nuck 'n Futz]

Michael wrote:

> If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
> he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
> live.

Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you Elliot
Elitist Malt Liquorices.

Shove it up your tailpipe.

N&F

[[email protected]]

Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
> > If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
> > he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
> > live.
>
> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you Elliot
> Elitist Malt Liquorices.

Unless Mr. Joe Couch Potato Sixpack is in a union--then he's an
'ungrateful slack-ass,' right?

Somebody might suggest to Joe Potato that he not pay 40 thousand
dollars for a 20 thousand dollar truck priced at 30. But there is no
law against throwing your money down a hole, even if it does screw up
the long-term livelihood of your family.

Robert

[Nuck 'n Futz]

wrote:
> Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>>> If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>> he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>> live.
>>
>> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you
>> Elliot Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>
> Unless Mr. Joe Couch Potato Sixpack is in a union--then he's an
> 'ungrateful slack-ass,' right?

"/A/ union"? That comment was made /specifically/ about the /illegal/
strikers in NYC, who make well over $50K on average (not including over
time, which everyone knows is plentiful there, regardless of actual hours
worked). Hardly "Joe Sixpack".

> Somebody might suggest to Joe Potato that he not pay 40 thousand
> dollars for a 20 thousand dollar truck priced at 30. But there is no
> law against throwing your money down a hole, even if it does screw up
> the long-term livelihood of your family.

Perhaps your precious law-breaking NYC transportation workers can afford
that kind of excess, but not average union workers (so-called "Joe Couch
Potato Sixpack").

I don't mind high fuel prices, but I don't drive much. They (the high
prices) DO hurt average working stiffs. Still say that "Michael" made an
elistist, snotty remark.

N&F

[Dave Larrington]

In article >, Nuck 'n Futz
) wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
> > If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
> > he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
> > live.
>
> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you Elliot
> Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>
> Shove it up your tailpipe.
>
> N&F

People seem to manage it here, where the stuff is well over six USD / US
gallon...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Me, I wanna be an anglepoise lamp, yeah!

[Ken M]

Mike Kruger wrote:
> "Ken M" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I'm sorry for posting something OT here! My bad! Thought maybe this might
>>be of interest for those who ride bikes.
>>
>
> It's not THAT far off topic, and there have been several threads like this.
> Political threads get nasty though.
>
Yeah the political threads DO get REAL nasty sometimes.

> While we are discussing the price of gas, I read in the WSJ earlier this
> week that China subsidizes gas, so that the price is roughly $1 a gallon. In
> that same article, they mentioned that the big oil companies like BP and
> Shell are less concerned with exploration at the moment for a variety of
> reasons which (in my somewhat biased summarization) amount to: we can make
> just as much money if we don't do a lot of exploration, because our margins
> will go up.
>
Well if the gov. of China is subsidizing gasoline no wonder the people
there are dumping the bike as a common means of transport.

> This is capitalism at work guys. The oil companies aren't evil, but they
> aren't public charities.
>
>
Well they are evil, just not as evil as people make them out to be.

Ken
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

[Ken M]

Michael wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>
>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>>
>>I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
>>rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
>>given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
>>$2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>>
>>Ken
>>--
>>On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
>>on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.
>
>
>
> American gasoline consumers are spoiled brats. (We've spoiled ourselves in many
> other ways too, but they're other stories.) Like cheap gas is a birthright.
> Yeah; right.
>
Darn right they are! Heck I remember back in the day when gas was like
25 cents a gallon, or something close to that when I was a little kid.

> I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981 and drove a leased VW
> Golf while several American colleagues who were also there drove BMW or Taunus
> (big Ford sedan). At that time 1 liter of "benzene" there cost about the same
> as 1 gallon of gas in the U.S. That's nearly *four* times the price, in
> Germany.
>
And I have heard read that it is close to 5 times in some other parts of
Europe.

> If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here, he should
> spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people live. (Actually,
> that's a good idea for everyone, re4gardless of the topic.)
>

Ken
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

[Ken M]

Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
>
>>If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>live.
>
>
> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you Elliot
> Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>
> Shove it up your tailpipe.
>
> N&F
>
>
Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.
That would lessen his cost of driving his fossil fuel powered internal
combustion engined vehicles. Thus making it easier to support his pack
of puppies at home.

Ken
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

[Bill Sornson]

Ken M wrote:
> Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>> he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>> live.
>>
>>
>> Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you
>> Elliot Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>>
>> Shove it up your tailpipe.
>>
>> N&F
>>
>>
> Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

> That would lessen his cost of driving his fossil fuel powered internal
> combustion engined vehicles. Thus making it easier to support his pack
> of puppies at home.

"Pack of puppies"??? Don't even know where to start with that one...

Bill "maybe someone should start an entitlement program for the working
class poor: give 'em a trip to Europe for Michael and a new car for Ken" S.

[Ken M]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Ken M wrote:
>
>>Nuck 'n Futz wrote:
>>
>>>Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here,
>>>>he should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people
>>>>live.
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to support his family, you
>>>Elliot Elitist Malt Liquorices.
>>>
>>>Shove it up your tailpipe.
>>>
>>>N&F
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.
>
>
> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
> he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?
>
>
>>That would lessen his cost of driving his fossil fuel powered internal
>>combustion engined vehicles. Thus making it easier to support his pack
>>of puppies at home.
>
>
> "Pack of puppies"??? Don't even know where to start with that one...
>
> Bill "maybe someone should start an entitlement program for the working
> class poor: give 'em a trip to Europe for Michael and a new car for Ken" S.
>
>
I guess I am in a rare mood today.

Ken "okay to be a jerk on the internet once and a while" M.
--
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

[Neil Brooks]

Price of gas around the world:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

--
Live simply so that others may simply live

[ReptilesBlade]

Ken M > wrote in news:I6mdnZrbDcez2TTeRVn-
:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken

Let's ****ing hope so. It is about time those SUVs followed the Muscle Cars
to the grave.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[Mark D]

If Joe Couch Potato Sixpack feels put upon by the cost of fuel here, he
should spend some time outside the U.S. and see how other people live.
(Actually, that's a good idea for everyone, re4gardless of the topic.)
======================================Yeah, and what does the average
German worker make versus an average American worker? A hell of a lot
more, I'll tell you that.

Most american workers probably wouldn't feel bad springing $3.00+ a
gallom for gas, if they made a decent living wage like German workers
do.

Instead, this country enjoys paying it's hard working labor force like
they're ****ing mexican immigrants. Can you blame an average person for
crying, when they're making a whopping $7/hr? Pretty soon, we'll "ALL"
be riding Bikes, and Mo-Peds like the Chinese "did". Mark

[max]

In article >, Michael > wrote:

> I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981

i meant to <aol> this yesterday but overslept...

I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there for the
Olympics, too, but that's a different story...

The German response to the supply shortage wasn't to abandon vehicles on
highways, siphon gas from each others' cars in the dead of night and kill
each other while queued up in endless gas lines...(the american response).

They just quit driving on sundays for ... three weeks.

It seemed to help, and it led to me being one of the relatively few people
to ride his "english racer" up and down an autobahn for several hours on a
sunday afternoon. Wish they'd try that here... i could use the miles.

any excuse to trot out my driverless sunday/autobahn biking story.

..max
auf Ihr' links

[max]

In article >,
ReptilesBlade > wrote:

> Ken M > wrote in news:I6mdnZrbDcez2TTeRVn-
> :
>
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
> >
> > I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> > rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think
> > given todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at
> > $2.80 a gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
> >
> > Ken
>
> Let's ****ing hope so. It is about time those SUVs followed the Muscle Cars
> to the grave.

At least muscle cars made one more attractive to prospective sexing partners.
as long as you had the Members Only jacket.

come to think of it, my 1960 Chevy Biscayne, like this
<http://tinyurl.com/cxooy>, but w/ a smaller straight-6 235 cubic inch
engine and a 3 speed manual, worked better than a bitchin' camaro. (See me
drive it in your Crime Story season 1 DVD collection)

It got better mileage than most SUVs on the road today (emissions,... not so
good)

..max

[Bill Sornson]

max wrote:

> I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there
> for the Olympics, too, but that's a different story...
>
> The German response to the supply shortage wasn't to abandon
> vehicles on highways, siphon gas from each others' cars in the dead
> of night and kill each other while queued up in endless gas
> lines...(the american response).

God, how did we survive?!? [sarcams mode alert]

Bill "do you believe EVERYTHING you hear?" S.

[gds]

Mark D wrote:
>> ======================================Yeah, and what does the average
> German worker make versus an average American worker? A hell of a lot
> more, I'll tell you that.
>
> Most american workers probably wouldn't feel bad springing $3.00+ a
> gallom for gas, if they made a decent living wage like German workers
> do.
>

That is a pretty simplistic comparison.

There are a number of variables that go into calculating a standard of
living and wage rates are only one of them. So, yes wage RATES in
Germany are presently higher than in the US.

However, Germans also work about 20% fewer hours. While some may argue
that this is a good theing theconomic result is that the monetary
earnings of American workers are pretty much the same as German
workers. Also, unemployment and labor force participation rates are
lower in Germany than in the US. So as a % there are fewer workers
earning that average rate in Germany.

Then there is the issue of taxes. For most workers taxes in Germany are
effectively higher than in the US. The result of this is of course
relatively lower disposable and discretionary income in Germany. Yes
there is a higher level of social welfare in Germany; so this further
complicates the comparison.

And then consider prices. Price levels for most items are also higher
in Germany. So it takes more money to buy the same market basket of
goods.

Comparisons are further complicated by the extent and nature of how all
these variables distribute accross the populations. Germany is quite a
bit less ethnically and culturally heterogeneous than the US. So,
defining the "average" worker differs a bit from place to place.

And back to the original argument. I've spent a fair amount of time in
Europe and most of the folks I met envied the relatively cheap fuel
prices in the US. I understand all of he environmental and conservation
issues- but still most folks prefer cheap and plentiful to the opposite
situation.

[Neil Brooks]

max > wrote:

>In article >, Michael > wrote:
>
>> I was in Germany on business for three months back in 1981
>
>i meant to <aol> this yesterday but overslept...
>
>I lived in Munich during the Arab Oil Embargo. 73? 74? I was there for the
>Olympics, too, but that's a different story...

[even further OT]

Did you see that "Munich" is coming out in theaters soon? Spielberg.
Saw previews last night. Looks good.
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

[gds]

correction to above. unempolyment is higher in Germany and labor force
particpation rates are lower. The resulting conclusion above is still
correct.
Sorry

[[email protected]]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Ken M wrote:

> > Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.
>
> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road. Where's
> he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

I get the idea, but you are overstating it a bit.

FWiW, the Honda Civic Hyrbird and the Prius start in the low 20's. The
average new car in Amerca sells for $26K to $27K. So if we are talking
about "joe average new car buyer" ... he could actually save a few
bucks, before we even consider fuel economy or resale value.

The real-world mileage on those models is in the high 40's at least:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

If "Joe Sixpack" is different than "Joe Average" ... then he might
consider a traditional new or used economy car. Sure. On the other
hand ... those "$35K" hybrids are for conspicuous consumers ... who are
not picking a model based on any kind of economy.

(I traded in my Subaru Wagon on a Prius ($22K), have as much space, and
get 50 mpg)

[Charles]

"Ken M" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think given
> todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at $2.80 a
> gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken
> --
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk - unless you act like a jerk
> on the internet too. - Quote modified by Ken M.
>
>
>
>

For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already. If I
could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent retirement,
but they don't allow bikes on interstates.

Charles

[Ken M]

Charles wrote:

> For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already. If I
> could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent retirement,
> but they don't allow bikes on interstates.
>
> Charles
>
>

Sounds like you should look for closer employment and enjoy a bicycle
commute.

Ken
--
[T]he bicycle is the most efficient machine ever created: Converting
calories into gas, a bicycle gets the equivalent of three thousand miles
per gallon. ~Bill Strickland, The Quotable Cyclist

Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/

[Matt O'Toole]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:01:43 -0500, Ken M wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10533856/
>
> I found a link to this page this morning while checking my Hotmail. New
> rules could add 60 cents per gallon to the cost of gasoline. I think given
> todays prices at about $2.20 a gallon that puts it almost back at $2.80 a
> gallon, not far from where the price peaked after Katrina.
>
> Ken

Now that prices will fall after the holiday season, the oil industry's PR
machine is trying to talk up prices again.

Nothing new.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:17:04 +0000, Bill Sornson wrote:

>> Joe Couch Potato Sixpack needs to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle.

> Ken, maybe it's all he can do to keep that '88 Corolla on the road.
> Where's he gonna find $35K for the latest hybrid (which ain't all that
> fuel-efficient anyway, by the way, once everything's factored-in)?

Don't assume that poor people drive inefficient cars. This stereotype
probably goes back to the 80s, when the cheap cars were the dinosaurs from
the 60s and 70s -- which *were* inefficient. This is no longer true. Now
the cheapest cars are things like 80s Corollas, which are almost as good
as their newer counterparts. And this is what I see most poor people
driving, from East LA to Appalachia.

Matt O.

[SMS]

max wrote:
> In article >,
> Ken M > wrote:
>

The low sulfur regulations will actually help the U.S. driver, as the
reason why we do not have all the extremely fuel efficient diesel cars,
that are available in Europe, is the high sulfur content on our diesel fuel.

[Q]

Along with my road bike which I often ride to work when weather permits,
I have a cheap Chinese made bicycle engine installed on a cheap Chinese
made cruiser bike. It makes for a quick and peddle free commute when
needed. Total cost of the new bike and engine was just $250. It has been
very reliable and it gets 150 mpg. No tags, insurance, etc., required
here in Oregon.

Q

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> Don't assume that poor people drive inefficient cars. This stereotype
> probably goes back to the 80s, when the cheap cars were the dinosaurs from
> the 60s and 70s -- which *were* inefficient. This is no longer true. Now
> the cheapest cars are things like 80s Corollas, which are almost as good
> as their newer counterparts. And this is what I see most poor people
> driving, from East LA to Appalachia.
>
> Matt O.

[Charles]

"Ken M" > wrote in message
...
> Charles wrote:
>
>> For that excuse, our gas prices here went up a dime on Jan 1 already.
>> If I could ride the 90 miles to work, I'd put my car into permanent
>> retirement, but they don't allow bikes on interstates.
>>
>> Charles
>
> Sounds like you should look for closer employment and enjoy a bicycle
> commute.
>
> Ken
> --
> [T]he bicycle is the most efficient machine ever created: Converting
> calories into gas, a bicycle gets the equivalent of three thousand miles
> per gallon. ~Bill Strickland, The Quotable Cyclist
>
> Homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
>
>
>

Yeah, but they don't plow / salt the roads I'd be on, so I'd still have to
drive in the winter. There's no route between the two spots that is plowed
or salted before I'm due at work.

Charles of Kankakee