Re: Tom Kunich is [an] ass

[Johnny Sunset]

Jobst Brandt > wrote:
> ...
> I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other contributors
> who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping while offering no
> useful information. A few names come to mind.

Nobody that posts under the name of a whiskey brand and refuses to use
capital letters, of course?

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

[[email protected]]

Johnny Sunset writes:

>> ... I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
>> contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
>> while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Too bad the header got changed from ... a ass... because that was a
noted expression from Charles Dickens:

http://www.bartleby.com/73/1002.html

He chose it because it put special emphasis on the phrase as the OP
probably did. By the way, changing the title loses the thread and
starts a new one, which is also none too good for tracking where the
discussion arose.

> Nobody that posts under the name of a whiskey brand and refuses to
> use capital letters, of course?

I once suspected that as well but don't believe that Kunich was nearly
as acrid in his responses. But that was in olden times when more
crass four letter words were not used on this forum. Besides, he
didn't seem to be at war with his high school English teacher,
eschewing the **** key, and reasonable spelling and punctuation.

Mr. alcohol claims to live in SF and ride a bicycle to work, which
wouldn't do from San Leandro, without taking the bicycle to SF on
BART, our rapid transit system.

Jobst Brandt

[Johnny Sunset]

Jobst Brandt > wrote:
> ....By the way, changing the title loses the thread and
> starts a new one, which is also none too good for tracking where the
> discussion arose....

Jobst,

I will remind you of this thread:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/7fe496e4d9d34ffd/eafc5dd1ec08ae24?q=aol+crank&rnum=1#eafc5dd1ec08ae24>.
Note who changed the thread title.

However, I thought changing OL (Octalink) to AOL was funny, which is
why I remembered the thread.

--
Tom Sherman - (Former rec.bicycles.tech regular)

[Michael Press]

In article >,
wrote:

> He chose it because it put special emphasis on the phrase as the OP
> probably did. By the way, changing the title loses the thread and
> starts a new one, which is also none too good for tracking where the
> discussion arose.

No, changing the subject header does not change alter the
threading. The References header and In-Reply-To header
maintain integrity. A correctly written news reader is
capable of displaying the list of articles according to
the References headers. Still the user must choose to
display the available articles according to threading if
that is what he wants, and not depend upon the article
Subject headers to organize the threading. Changing the
Subject header in a sub-thread is permissible, even
preferable, in many cases.

--
Michael Press

[Nuckin' Futz]

wrote:

> ... By the way, changing the title loses the thread and
> starts a new one

No it doesn't.

NF

[[email protected]]

Tom Sherman writes:

>> ....By the way, changing the title loses the thread and starts a
>> new one, which is also none too good for tracking where the
>> discussion arose....

> I will remind you of this thread:

http://tinyurl.com/d4tky

> Note who changed the thread title.

I missed that entirely as my spell checker offered AOL for the
misspelled word OL. Apparently I changed that inadvertently. The new
version of my spell checker no longer offers AOL as the first
replacement choice for OL. I make enough typos that I usually spell
check the item which then starts at the top of the page.

> However, I thought changing OL (Octalink) to AOL was funny, which is
> why I remembered the thread.

As engrossed in the subject as I was, that passed me by entirely.
In any event, I thought the Dickens usage was chosen on purpose.

Jobst Brandt

[[email protected]]

Michael Press writes:

>> He chose it because it put special emphasis on the phrase as the OP
>> probably did. By the way, changing the title loses the thread and
>> starts a new one, which is also none too good for tracking where
>> the discussion arose.

> No, changing the subject header does not change alter the threading.
> The References header and In-Reply-To header maintain integrity. A
> correctly written news reader is capable of displaying the list of
> articles according to the References headers. Still the user must
> choose to display the available articles according to threading if
> that is what he wants, and not depend upon the article Subject
> headers to organize the threading. Changing the Subject header in a
> sub-thread is permissible, even preferable, in many cases.

Speak for your own news reader. Tin, the UNIX threaded news reader
that I use, keeps threads by title and lists them only once even if
cross posted to several subscribed newsgroups. Unless the item is
separately posted to each newsgroup, it will be flagged as "read" once
it has been accessed by the user.

In this case I came across the item under separate threads.

Jobst Brandt

[David Damerell]

Quoting >:
>Michael Press writes:
>>No, changing the subject header does not change alter the threading.
>Speak for your own news reader. Tin, the UNIX threaded news reader
>that I use, keeps threads by title

No; you are misusing the term "thread". A "thread" is a group of articles
associated because of Message-IDs and References lines.

What tin does is group-by-Subject, which is inferior to true threading.
The answer is to get a newsreader which functions correctly.
--
David Damerell > flcl?
Today is Second Leicesterday, December.

[Michael Press]

In article >,
David Damerell > wrote:

> Quoting >:
> >Michael Press writes:
> >>No, changing the subject header does not change alter the threading.
> >Speak for your own news reader. Tin, the UNIX threaded news reader
> >that I use, keeps threads by title
>
> No; you are misusing the term "thread". A "thread" is a group of articles
> associated because of Message-IDs and References lines.
>
> What tin does is group-by-Subject, which is inferior to true threading.
> The answer is to get a newsreader which functions correctly.

That is what Tin does by default, but Tin can sort by references.
In the man page under
GLOBAL OPTIONS MENU AND TINRC CONFIGURABLE VARIABLES
is a configuration variable for sorting articles
by the References header.

Thread articles by (thread_articles)
Defines which threading method to use. It's possible to set the
threading type on a per group basis by setting the group attribute
variable thread_arts to 0 - 4 in the file ${TIN_HOME-
DIR-"$HOME"}/.tin/attributes. (See also "GROUP ATTRIBUTES".) The
default is Both Subject and References. The choices are:

0 None, don't thread.

1 Subject, thread on ''Subject:'' only.

2 References, thread on ''References:'' only.

3 Both Subject and References, thread on ''References:'' then
''Subject:'' (default).

4 Multipart Subject, thread multipart articles on ''Subject:''.

5 Percentage Match, thread base upon a partial character match on
''Subject:''.

--
Michael Press

[Tim McNamara]

David Damerell > writes:

> Quoting >:
>>Michael Press writes:
>>>No, changing the subject header does not change alter the
>threading.
>>
>>Speak for your own news reader. Tin, the UNIX threaded news reader
>>that I use, keeps threads by title
>
> No; you are misusing the term "thread". A "thread" is a group of
> articles associated because of Message-IDs and References lines.
>
> What tin does is group-by-Subject, which is inferior to true
> threading. The answer is to get a newsreader which functions
> correctly.

Given that Jobst uses Emacs, he's got a great option in Gnus right on
his computer (M-x gnus). The current version is 5.10.6, I think; the
CVS version is 5.11. All he has to do is set up his .gnus config file
and he is in business. There are some great e-mail client options as
well.

[Someone]

Jobst Brandt > wrote:
> Tom Sherman writes:
>
> >> ....By the way, changing the title loses the thread and starts a
> >> new one, which is also none too good for tracking where the
> >> discussion arose....
>
> > I will remind you of this thread:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d4tky
>
> > Note who changed the thread title.
>
> I missed that entirely as my spell checker offered AOL for the
> misspelled word OL. Apparently I changed that inadvertently. The new
> version of my spell checker no longer offers AOL as the first
> replacement choice for OL. I make enough typos that I usually spell
> check the item which then starts at the top of the page.

I am disappointed. I thought it was a clever bit of intentional humor.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

[David Damerell]

Michael Press:
>David Damerell > wrote:
>>What tin does is group-by-Subject, which is inferior to true threading.
>>The answer is to get a newsreader which functions correctly.
>That is what Tin does by default, but Tin can sort by references.

Aha! I'm glad that's fixed.

> 2 References, thread on ''References:'' only.
> 3 Both Subject and References, thread on ''References:'' then
> ''Subject:'' (default).

So I think option 2 is the right thing here. Presumably what #3 does is to
group by Subject but use References: correctly within sets of articles
with a common Subject line, like Google Groups.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is Second Brieday, December.

[Jasper Janssen]

On 27 Dec 2005 05:50:47 GMT, wrote:

> Besides, he
>didn't seem to be at war with his high school English teacher,
>eschewing the **** key, and reasonable spelling and punctuation.
^^^^

I gotta say, Jobst, *that* was a good laugh. I needed that.

Jasper

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 03:42:02 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:

>Changing the
>Subject header in a sub-thread is permissible, even
>preferable, in many cases.

When it's actually a sub-thread, yes. When it's just a reply, not.

Jasper

[Jasper Janssen]

On 28 Dec 2005 17:49:27 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
> wrote:

>What tin does is group-by-Subject, which is inferior to true threading.

That's a funny way of spelling 'Superior'.

Jasper

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:55:39 -0600, Tim McNamara >
wrote:

>Given that Jobst uses Emacs, he's got a great option in Gnus right on
>his computer (M-x gnus). The current version is 5.10.6, I think; the
>CVS version is 5.11. All he has to do is set up his .gnus config file
>and he is in business. There are some great e-mail client options as
>well.

Doesn't it bother you that what purports to be a text editor can read your
mail and news? Literally, actually, and send responses back all without
you even noticing?

Jasper

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Jasper Janssen > wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 03:42:02 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:
>
> >Changing the
> >Subject header in a sub-thread is permissible, even
> >preferable, in many cases.
>
> When it's actually a sub-thread, yes. When it's just a reply, not.

I have changed a Subject header only to correct a misspelling.

--
Michael Press

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Jasper Janssen > writes:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:55:39 -0600, Tim McNamara >
> wrote:
>
>>Given that Jobst uses Emacs, he's got a great option in Gnus right on
>>his computer (M-x gnus). The current version is 5.10.6, I think; the
>>CVS version is 5.11. All he has to do is set up his .gnus config file
>>and he is in business. There are some great e-mail client options as
>>well.
>
> Doesn't it bother you that what purports to be a text editor can read your
> mail and news? Literally, actually, and send responses back all without
> you even noticing?

Not when it's Open Source Software. I'd be more leery of
[back-door goings-on in] certain proprietary applications.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

[[email protected]]

Jasper Janssen writes:

>> Besides, he didn't seem to be at war with his high school English
>> teacher, eschewing the **** key, and reasonable spelling and
>> punctuation. ^^^^

> I gotta say, Jobst, *that* was a good laugh. I needed that.

Well, it was Freudian slip but I like it.

Jobst Brandt

[[email protected]]

Michael Press writes:

>>> Changing the Subject header in a sub-thread is permissible, even
>>> preferable, in many cases.

>> When it's actually a sub-thread, yes. When it's just a reply, not.

> I have changed a Subject header only to correct a misspelling.

And, as I mentioned, it was not a misspelling but rather a device used
by Charles Dickens that has made its way into literate circles for its
emphasis.

http://www.bartleby.com/73/1002.html

Jobst Brandt