XTR M960: Beyond diminishing returns

[Rocketman]

XTR M960 Cranks: $450
XTR M960 Brifters: $275
XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192

HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?

The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop $2k+
on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything to
them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can get
the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
it's priced like gold.

The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.

Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53 from
JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were $119.
The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it very
soon.

Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

Rocketman

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[News Subsystem]

what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
> wrote:

>XTR M960 Cranks: $450
>XTR M960 Brifters: $275
>XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
>XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
>XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
>HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
>
>The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop $2k+
>on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything to
>them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can get
>the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
>it's priced like gold.
>
>The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
>offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
>but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
>been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
>(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
>marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.
>
>Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
>Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53 from
>JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
>$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were $119.
>The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
>bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
>sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it very
>soon.
>
>Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
>Rocketman

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[Rocketman]

"News Subsystem" > wrote in message
...
> what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
> snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
> has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
> i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong

Which five crank sets has your friend snapped? (brand/model) What makes you
think that XTR won't also snap? Why on earth would you think that getting
the lightest crank would be the same as getting the strongest crank? It
doesn't work like that. XTR cranks will snap under stress. Being XTRa
Xpensive doesn't allow them to violate the laws of physics and material
engineering.

Your XXX large friend needs to try some of the welded tubular CrMo steel
cranks out there. They're about 1/3 the price of XTR, and very, very tough.
Have a look at the FSA X-Drive or the AC 454 DH cranks. I'd be shocked if he
could even bend them, much less break them. He might also be a prime
candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive - Shimano Saint DH/FR
components. This may be the only high-end racing-oriented
highly-specialized component group in history that sells *because* it is
heavy. Saint seems ready-made for the big mashers and big-air crazies that
snap cranks and axles, and ruin rear derailleurs against boulders. It's
*very* expensive; but at least it's solving a problem that actually exists,
and saving a trip to the hospital with gaping wounds from a razor-sharp
crank stub gashing open your calf. Gotta say, if it keeps you out of the
hospital once, it's worth the whole price of admission.

Rocketman





> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
> > wrote:
>
> >XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> >XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> >XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> >XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> >XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
> >
> >HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
> >
> >The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop
$2k+
> >on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything
to
> >them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can
get
> >the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
> >it's priced like gold.
> >
> >The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several
companies
> >offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic
Motorcycle;
> >but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
> >been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> >(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
> >marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura
Ace.
> >
> >Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
> >Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53
from
> >JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
> >$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were
$119.
> >The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
> >bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
> >sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it
very
> >soon.
> >
> >Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
> >
> >Rocketman
>
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> rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
> posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
> Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt
>

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[Troy Rappe]

> what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
> snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
>

XTR is the lightweight race stuff. LX or XT are better for big guys.
But really if he snaps parts like that, get some RaceFace or Truvativ
freeride or downhill cranks.

BTW: It's obviously not from "the sheer power of his pedalling", but rather
some combination of poor riding skills, aggressive drops and his weight.
I speak with some experiance. I'm an x football player and the more
I ride the less I break parts.

As you learn to glide over the trail rather than beat it to submission,
not only do the parts last but you go way faster.

I used to bend a lot of wheels, break chains, helmets, seatposts, cassettes,
chainrings,... but I rarely break stuff anymore. I even crash softer, well
usually,
I sprained my neck a couple months ago by not paying attention on a new
trail.

Big guy parts:
freeride cranks (splined)
custom frame (Ti Seven Sola works for me!)
Marzoochi fork (only big guy fork)
rims (32 spoke triple cross or DH specific )
9 speed Chains and cassettes might last a summer
if this is too much $$ switch to 8 speed, 8 speeds last me at least 2 years.
Thompson Elite seatpost
Thompson Elite stem
Chris King headset (it's worth the money)
Easton's cheapest AL handlebar

When you buy the cheaper parts from the big name manufacturers
you usually get the heavy duty parts. (not including frames and forks)

The most expensive parts are usually the lightest weight, xc race stuff for
the
140 lb rider.

Ogre

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[Dave Adnum]

better yet get him to buy some Race Face NORTH SHORE cranks... guaranteed
for the life of the original owner.


"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:MzRyb.277206$ao4.951523@attbi_s51...
> "News Subsystem" > wrote in message
> ...
> > what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
> > snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
> > has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
> > i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong
>
> Which five crank sets has your friend snapped? (brand/model) What makes
you
> think that XTR won't also snap? Why on earth would you think that getting
> the lightest crank would be the same as getting the strongest crank? It
> doesn't work like that. XTR cranks will snap under stress. Being XTRa
> Xpensive doesn't allow them to violate the laws of physics and material
> engineering.
>
> Your XXX large friend needs to try some of the welded tubular CrMo steel
> cranks out there. They're about 1/3 the price of XTR, and very, very
tough.
> Have a look at the FSA X-Drive or the AC 454 DH cranks. I'd be shocked if
he
> could even bend them, much less break them. He might also be a prime
> candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive - Shimano Saint DH/FR
> components. This may be the only high-end racing-oriented
> highly-specialized component group in history that sells *because* it is
> heavy. Saint seems ready-made for the big mashers and big-air crazies
that
> snap cranks and axles, and ruin rear derailleurs against boulders. It's
> *very* expensive; but at least it's solving a problem that actually
exists,
> and saving a trip to the hospital with gaping wounds from a razor-sharp
> crank stub gashing open your calf. Gotta say, if it keeps you out of the
> hospital once, it's worth the whole price of admission.
>
> Rocketman
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:31 CST, "Rocketman"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> > >XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> > >XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> > >XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> > >XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
> > >
> > >HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
> > >
> > >The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop
> $2k+
> > >on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean
anything
> to
> > >them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they
can
> get
> > >the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry,
but
> > >it's priced like gold.
> > >
> > >The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several
> companies
> > >offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic
> Motorcycle;
> > >but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano
has
> > >been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> > >(square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only
thing
> > >marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura
> Ace.
> > >
> > >Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in
price.
> > >Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53
> from
> > >JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs
for
> > >$146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were
> $119.
> > >The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your
next
> > >bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
> > >sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it
> very
> > >soon.
> > >
> > >Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
> > >
> > >Rocketman
> >
> > --
> > rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
> > posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
> > Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt
> >
>
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[Small Black Dog]

News Subsystem wrote:

> SOmeone I know has snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling

lets try and cut out the lies, eh?

Small Black Dog



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[Small Black Dog]

> He might also be a prime candidate for the new - and breathtakingly expensive
> - Shimano Saint DH/FR components.

hmm, they're a fair bit cheaper than XTR. and 'breathtakingly' expensive
is not a term I'd apply to them. £140 GBP is not a lot to pay for the
reputedly mad-strong cranks and BB.

Small Black Dog

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[Richard Adams]

A friend of mine, whom weighs a bit less than myself, broke components
constantly, but usually from doing big drops. Simply put, if you're
going to ride like that, expect breakage. Sounds like a candidate for
the 8" suspension club. Me, I'm mostly cross country on a hardtail ('93
C'dale Delta V600) and the only parts I've broken were due to wear and
the odd stick pulling the rear der into the spokes. Thousands of miles
without much breakage to report, while trying to keep up with my full
suspension friends.

Troy Rappe wrote:
>>what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
>>snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
>>
> XTR is the lightweight race stuff. LX or XT are better for big guys.
> But really if he snaps parts like that, get some RaceFace or Truvativ
> freeride or downhill cranks.
>
> BTW: It's obviously not from "the sheer power of his pedalling", but rather
> some combination of poor riding skills, aggressive drops and his weight.
> I speak with some experiance. I'm an x football player and the more
> I ride the less I break parts.
>
> As you learn to glide over the trail rather than beat it to submission,
> not only do the parts last but you go way faster.
>
> I used to bend a lot of wheels, break chains, helmets, seatposts, cassettes,
> chainrings,... but I rarely break stuff anymore. I even crash softer, well
> usually,
> I sprained my neck a couple months ago by not paying attention on a new
> trail.
>
> Big guy parts:
> freeride cranks (splined)
> custom frame (Ti Seven Sola works for me!)
> Marzoochi fork (only big guy fork)
> rims (32 spoke triple cross or DH specific )
> 9 speed Chains and cassettes might last a summer
> if this is too much $$ switch to 8 speed, 8 speeds last me at least 2 years.
> Thompson Elite seatpost
> Thompson Elite stem
> Chris King headset (it's worth the money)
> Easton's cheapest AL handlebar
>
> When you buy the cheaper parts from the big name manufacturers
> you usually get the heavy duty parts. (not including frames and forks)
>
> The most expensive parts are usually the lightest weight, xc race stuff for
> the
> 140 lb rider.
>
> Ogre

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[Shaun Rimmer]

"Small Black Dog" > wrote in message
...
> News Subsystem wrote:
>
> > SOmeone I know has snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his
pedalling
>
> lets try and cut out the lies, eh?
>
> Small Black Dog

Yeah, tell 'em to stop being such a dick, eh SBD?



Shaun aRe


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[Dave Adnum]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
> >
> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
> Rocketman


alllllready did... and haven't looked back.

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[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> better yet get him to buy some Race Face NORTH SHORE cranks... guaranteed
> for the life of the original owner.

So about two hours if they fail badly enough? <G,D&R>

....

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Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Paul R]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
> HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
>
> Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
> Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53
from
> JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
> $146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were
$119.
> The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
> bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
> sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it
very
> soon.
>
> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>

Uh, this is mostly due to the US Federal Reserve Bank policy. They have
allowed the US dollar to drop significantly against world markets over the
past year.

Everything you import is more expensive now. Just like everthing we
Canadians import from the US is cheaper!

Cheers,
paul


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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450

Got mine for just over $300

> XTR M960 Brifters: $275

Went with XT here....$63, as well as the hydro levers, $58. No way in hell I
was going to go for the combo XTR for $377.

> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123

Got it for $100

> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142

XT again....$36. Have no desire to run Ti cogs.

> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
Had to go with the King.

<snip stuff>

> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
Maybe. When it's time to replace mine, I will more than likely try it.

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[Paul R]

> >
> > Uh, this is mostly due to the US Federal Reserve Bank policy. They have
> > allowed the US dollar to drop significantly against world markets over
the
> > past year.
> >
> > Everything you import is more expensive now. Just like everthing we
> > Canadians import from the US is cheaper!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > paul
> >
> >
>
> Seen the suggested retail on S-Works bikes in Canada lately? :)
>

Heh heh, nope, fortunately I've got a great bike and no desire to change!
(deKerf ST).

I wouldn't be surprised if Shimano has increased their prices, but the US
dollar has dropped significantly on the japanese Yen over the past year.
This means a direct price increase to the US. That's all I'm saying - don't
blame the price changes entirely on Shimano (there's lot's of more
legitimate stuff to complain about Shimano).

Cheers,
p



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[Rocketman]

"Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> > XTR M960 Cranks: $450
>
> Got mine for just over $300

<snip>

Mojo, did you realize that you posted the same reply 7 times?

Rocketman

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[News Subsystem]

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:43:29 CST, "Troy Rappe" >
wrote:

>
>
>> what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
>> snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
>>
>
>XTR is the lightweight race stuff. LX or XT are better for big guys.
>But really if he snaps parts like that, get some RaceFace or Truvativ
>freeride or downhill cranks.
>

Hmm, ok,


>BTW: It's obviously not from "the sheer power of his pedalling", but rather
>some combination of poor riding skills, aggressive drops and his weight.
>I speak with some experiance. I'm an x football player and the more
>I ride the less I break parts.
he doesnt ride offroad
>
>As you learn to glide over the trail rather than beat it to submission,
>not only do the parts last but you go way faster.
>
>I used to bend a lot of wheels, break chains, helmets, seatposts, cassettes,
>chainrings,... but I rarely break stuff anymore. I even crash softer, well
>usually,
> I sprained my neck a couple months ago by not paying attention on a new
>trail.
>
>Big guy parts:
>freeride cranks (splined)
>custom frame (Ti Seven Sola works for me!)
>Marzoochi fork (only big guy fork)
>rims (32 spoke triple cross or DH specific )
>9 speed Chains and cassettes might last a summer
>if this is too much $$ switch to 8 speed, 8 speeds last me at least 2 years.
>Thompson Elite seatpost
>Thompson Elite stem
>Chris King headset (it's worth the money)
>Easton's cheapest AL handlebar
>
thanks, yeah, ill show him the list :)
>When you buy the cheaper parts from the big name manufacturers
>you usually get the heavy duty parts. (not including frames and forks)
>
>The most expensive parts are usually the lightest weight, xc race stuff for
>the
>140 lb rider.
>
>Ogre

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[Richard Adams]

Rocketman wrote:

> "Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Rocketman" > wrote in message
>>news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
>>
>>>XTR M960 Cranks: $450
>>
>>Got mine for just over $300
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Mojo, did you realize that you posted the same reply 7 times?

Yeah, but think of all the money he saved on quantity discounts!

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[News Subsystem]

excuse me?

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:05:27 CST, Small Black Dog
> wrote:

>News Subsystem wrote:
>
>> SOmeone I know has snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling
>
>lets try and cut out the lies, eh?
>
>Small Black Dog

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[News Subsystem]

hheheh, i thought the xtr was the ultra tough stuff heh

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:15:14 CST, Chris Phillipo
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> what about large people who want something strong? SOmeone I know has
>> snapped 5 crank sets just from the sheer power of his pedalling, he
>> has had to spend over 7 times the amount of money buying his bike than
>> i have buying mine cause he needs something really strong
>>
>
>Then you're gong to love those shifters with many parts in them that are
>better suited to a Swiss watch and that wonderful hard as cardboard
>cassette that folds it's cogs at the first bad shift caused by the
>wonderful shifters. There's a reason Shimano came out with the Saint
>line at the same time as the new XTR, they knew the new XTR couldn't cut
>it.
>
>--
>_________________________
>Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
>http://www.ramsays-online.com

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[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> hheheh, i thought the xtr was the ultra tough stuff heh

Nope, it's the extra light stuff.


--
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Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

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[David Reuteler]

In rec.bicycles.misc News Subsystem > wrote:
: excuse me?

he said, "lets try and cut out the lies, eh?"
--
david reuteler


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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:eL6zb.202404$Dw6.745875@attbi_s02...
> "Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> > news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> > > XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> >
> > Got mine for just over $300
>
> <snip>
>
> Mojo, did you realize that you posted the same reply 7 times?
>
Now I do. Been having some problems with my server. Sometimes it post,
sometimes it does not. Worst yet, it appears NOT to post, but does anyway.

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[Rocketman]

"Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> news:eL6zb.202404$Dw6.745875@attbi_s02...
> > "Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> > > news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> > > > XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> > >
> > > Got mine for just over $300
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Mojo, did you realize that you posted the same reply 7 times?
> >
> Now I do. Been having some problems with my server. Sometimes it post,
> sometimes it does not. Worst yet, it appears NOT to post, but does anyway.

Yeah, I've been having the exact same problem! It ****es me off! You just
gotta wait a few hours and see if it posts. You wouldn't happen to have
Insight Broadband, would you?

Rocketman

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[JD]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message news:<R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53>...
<snip>
> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?

No, they are telling us that singlespeeding is pure and natural.

JD Wheeler

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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:91Czb.22721$_M.100141@attbi_s54...
> "Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> > news:eL6zb.202404$Dw6.745875@attbi_s02...
> > > "Mojo Deluxe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> > > > news:R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53...
> > > > > XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> > > >
> > > > Got mine for just over $300
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Mojo, did you realize that you posted the same reply 7 times?
> > >
> > Now I do. Been having some problems with my server. Sometimes it post,
> > sometimes it does not. Worst yet, it appears NOT to post, but does
anyway.
>
> Yeah, I've been having the exact same problem! It ****es me off! You just
> gotta wait a few hours and see if it posts. You wouldn't happen to have
> Insight Broadband, would you?
>
Bellsouth dial-up, with free news service (wonder why it's free?). I wish I
could get high speed out here.

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[Rocketman]

"JD" > wrote in message
om...
> "Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:<R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53>...
> <snip>
> > Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
> No, they are telling us that singlespeeding is pure and natural.
>
> JD Wheeler

You've got me thinking....

I have a matte-black NOS rigid Research Dynamics CrMo frame with horizontal
dropouts - and matching rigid fork - that I bought (in the original carton)
on Ebay for $26 last year. Hella deal. I built up a rear wheel with a
thread-on hub from two discarded wheels (hub from one wheel, rim and spokes
from the other). I even have an18T freewheel off of a junked BMX bike I
found in the neighbor's trash. I think that good ol' Research Dynamics CrMo
frameset is gonna be my new single speeder!

Thanks for the inspiration, JD.

Rocketman

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[Reco Diver]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message news:<R%Myb.274457.

<snip>

> The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
> offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
> but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
> been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> (square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
> marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.

<snip>

11-year-old technology? Don't forget the slant-parallelogram
derrailuer design. Geez when are they going to come up with something
new? They "barrowed" that technology from SunTour ... who started
using it in the early 70's. They did, of course, have to wait until
the patent expired. Dura-Ace didn't even have an S/P rear derrailuer
until the 7400 series was brought out. And that Saint Axel-mounted hub
specific rear derrailuer what a rip-off of the 1930's Simplex/Benelux
designs. V-brakes ... nothing more than a rework of the late 80's
Cross-tops and Marinovators. SIS ... a rework of Positron ...

When will they bring out something new?

R

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[Rocketman]

"Reco Diver" > wrote in message
om...
> "Rocketman" > wrote in message news:<R%Myb.274457.
>
> <snip>
>
> > The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several
companies
> > offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic
Motorcycle;
> > but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano
has
> > been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> > (square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only
thing
> > marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura
Ace.
>
> <snip>
>
> 11-year-old technology? Don't forget the slant-parallelogram
> derrailuer design. Geez when are they going to come up with something
> new? They "barrowed" that technology from SunTour ... who started
> using it in the early 70's. They did, of course, have to wait until
> the patent expired. Dura-Ace didn't even have an S/P rear derrailuer
> until the 7400 series was brought out. And that Saint Axel-mounted hub
> specific rear derrailuer what a rip-off of the 1930's Simplex/Benelux
> designs. V-brakes ... nothing more than a rework of the late 80's
> Cross-tops and Marinovators. SIS ... a rework of Positron ...
>
> When will they bring out something new?

LOL! You got it, Reco. And let's not forget about the splined disc
adapter mounts for the new XTR and XT hubs. Did they license those from
Chris King, or what? Shimano has become more of a re-packaging and marketing
company than an innovative engineering company, IMO.

Rocketman


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[JD]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message news:<UcUzb.428075$Tr4.1210736@attbi_s03>...
> "JD" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Rocketman" > wrote in message
> news:<R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53>...
> > <snip>
> > > Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
> >
> > No, they are telling us that singlespeeding is pure and natural.
> >
> > JD Wheeler
>
> You've got me thinking....
>
> I have a matte-black NOS rigid Research Dynamics CrMo frame with horizontal
> dropouts - and matching rigid fork - that I bought (in the original carton)
> on Ebay for $26 last year. Hella deal. I built up a rear wheel with a
> thread-on hub from two discarded wheels (hub from one wheel, rim and spokes
> from the other). I even have an18T freewheel off of a junked BMX bike I
> found in the neighbor's trash. I think that good ol' Research Dynamics CrMo
> frameset is gonna be my new single speeder!
>
> Thanks for the inspiration, JD.
>
> Rocketman

You will be assimilated.

JD

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[Evan Evans]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message news:<R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53>...
> XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
>
> HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
>
> The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop $2k+
> on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything to
> them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can get
> the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry, but
> it's priced like gold.
>
> The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several companies
> offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic Motorcycle;
> but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano has
> been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> (square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only thing
> marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura Ace.
>
> Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
> Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53 from
> JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
> $146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were $119.
> The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your next
> bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
> sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it very
> soon.
>
> Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
>
> Rocketman

If i choose to buy xtr more power to me. Don't be jealous. You can buy
sram & pretend to like it.

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[Rocketman]

"Evan Evans" > wrote in message
om...
> "Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:<R%Myb.274457$275.970846@attbi_s53>...
> > XTR M960 Cranks: $450
> > XTR M960 Brifters: $275
> > XTR M960 Rear Derailleur: $123
> > XTR M960 9sp Cassette: $142
> > XTR M960 Rear Disc Hub: $192
> >
> > HA HA HA HA! Nobody is gonna buy this stuff, are they?
> >
> > The weight weenies with more money than sense are gonna line up to drop
$2k+
> > on the new XTR line. Does the phrase "diminishing returns" mean anything
to
> > them? I'm betting it doesn't. Shimano is trying to see how much they can
get
> > the logo whores to pay for ugly, trendy bike parts. It's not jewelry,
but
> > it's priced like gold.
> >
> > The new XTR is partially based on 11-year-old technology. Several
companies
> > offered similar crank and BB designs in 1992, most notably Magic
Motorcycle;
> > but also Bullseye, Sweet Wings and Syncros a few years later. Shimano
has
> > been borrowing 1993 Magic Motorcycle crank technology for a while now
> > (square-splined BB, outboard bearings, hollow crankarms). The only
thing
> > marginally new are the M960 shifters, and they're just a rehash of Dura
Ace.
> >
> > Meanwhile, all of Shimano's other component lines are going up in price.
> > Last season, I bought the new DuraAce mid-cage rear derailleur for $53
from
> > JensonUSA. Right now, JensonUSA lists DuraAce 7800 rear derailleurs for
> > $146!! LX cranks that sold for $59 are now $83. M753 XT cranks were
$119.
> > The new XT cranks are $249!! That, folks, is a HUGE increase. Your
next
> > bike will cost a *lot* more than your last bike did. Low-priced Shimano
> > sources are drying up quickly. If you're thinking of stocking up, do it
very
> > soon.
> >
> > Is Shimano begging us to switch to SRAM, or what?
> >
> > Rocketman
>
> If i choose to buy xtr more power to me.

Then you won't mind me snickering behind your back, I guess.

> Don't be jealous.

It's hard to be jealous of a fool and his money.

> You can buy sram & pretend to like it.

I'll stick with my bombproof older 8-speed XT and XTR gear - still working
perfectly, and shifting much better than *any* 9-speed crap. That dust cloud
bombing past you and laughing will be me.

Rocketman




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[Mojo Deluxe]

"Rocketman" > wrote in message
news:Fu0Jb.24259$I07.62100@attbi_s53...
<mega snip>

> I'll stick with my bombproof older 8-speed XT and XTR gear - still working
> perfectly, and shifting much better than *any* 9-speed crap.
>
heh.

> That dust cloud bombing past you and laughing will be me.
>
Nothing like older bombproof parts, to make one faster.

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