Soldering Cable Ends

[Llatikcuf]

After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
finally did it.

http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg

For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8 worth
of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.

Results were very good, better than expected. I tried a bunch of
cables: cheap, expensive, brand name, generic and could not find one
this combo did not work with.
I used:

-18 gauge silver solder/braze alloy, 45% silver, 30% copper and 25%
zinc, cadmium free.
- Borate fluoride mix, black high temperature flux (use in a well
ventilated area, a respirator wouldn't hurt.)

The guy I bought my supplies from said this combo will work on copper,
brass, steel, stainless steel and cast iron.

-nate

[Lou Holtman]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
> finally did it.
>
> http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
>
> For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
> involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8 worth
> of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.
>
> Results were very good, better than expected. I tried a bunch of
> cables: cheap, expensive, brand name, generic and could not find one
> this combo did not work with.
> I used:
>
> -18 gauge silver solder/braze alloy, 45% silver, 30% copper and 25%
> zinc, cadmium free.
> - Borate fluoride mix, black high temperature flux (use in a well
> ventilated area, a respirator wouldn't hurt.)
>
> The guy I bought my supplies from said this combo will work on copper,
> brass, steel, stainless steel and cast iron.
>
> -nate
>


It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Neil Brooks]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:44 +0100, Lou Holtman
> wrote:

>Llatikcuf wrote:
>> After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
>> finally did it.
>>
>> http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
>>
>> For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
>> involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8 worth
>> of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.
>>
>> Results were very good, better than expected. I tried a bunch of
>> cables: cheap, expensive, brand name, generic and could not find one
>> this combo did not work with.
>> I used:
>>
>> -18 gauge silver solder/braze alloy, 45% silver, 30% copper and 25%
>> zinc, cadmium free.
>> - Borate fluoride mix, black high temperature flux (use in a well
>> ventilated area, a respirator wouldn't hurt.)
>>
>> The guy I bought my supplies from said this combo will work on copper,
>> brass, steel, stainless steel and cast iron.
>>
>> -nate
>>
>
>
>It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.

I think you just did ;-)

It's a tweak, you know? A minor "modification" (notice I didn't use
the words 'improvement' or 'upgrade') when the rest of the bike is
perfect.

For good or for ill, I think it shows a person who is fastidious,
conscientious, and proud of their bike (notice I didn't use the words
'anal retentive' or 'obsessed').

Nice job, Nate. She's a beauty. Should also be good for a few
ten-thousandths in a 20k time trial....

[Llatikcuf]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
> > After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
> > finally did it.
> >
> > http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
> >
>
> It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>
> Lou

Maybe I'm just a spas, but when I'm threading used cables (through
housing and those little holes in frame stops, shifters and other
parts) one strand always catches and bends out of place making it
impossible to thread it back through without cutting the end off the
cable, reducing the length every time I re-thread it. Then I usually
end up poking myself on that FU**ING little single strand and leaving
small blood spots on the yellow handles of my wrenches. This is a
simple fix to prevent the fraying, especially when threading cables.

-nate

[[email protected]]

come back next month with a further review!
waht you need is or are (the plurality is {are?} under discussion) -
lineman's plier - has square blunt end(s)
and
vicegrips
the vicegrips are cheap at walmort buy 2, the lineman's pliers are not
cheap but wonderfully useful (i got mine from a drunken fisherman)
hold the proximal unfrayed section with vicegrips - place grips on
cable manually then screwdown and increase pressure - avoiding a flat
end cable
take lineman's plier and twist the cable - and twist it in the proper
direction stupid
then cap with a cable cap
cable end caps are available at the LBS
try not to be an IA asking for one cable cap - buy 20 cable caps - or a
"handful" and leave the change.
crimping cable caps is an art: as you managed to solder, I leave this
to your imagination and intelligence

[Llatikcuf]

Neil Brooks wrote:
>
> Nice job, Nate. She's a beauty. Should also be good for a few
> ten-thousandths in a 20k time trial....

Who cares about time or speed. Two items that are overrated in the
cycling world, what happened to cycling for fun and recreation?
I only did it because I think it makes cables easier to deal with and
last longer (for me anyways).

-nate

[[email protected]]

one works the frays in segments from a point below(or above)the
plier(s) holding the unfrayed cable still (!) and retwists, down a
section, retwist - then maybe retwist the entire once frayed in its
entirety from the distal end.
you'll get the hang of it thru practice.
this skill is a "priceless" cycle mechanic - and you'll find out why!!

[Nate Knutson]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
> > After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
> > finally did it.
> >
> > http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
> >
> > For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
> > involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8 worth
> > of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.
> >
> > Results were very good, better than expected. I tried a bunch of
> > cables: cheap, expensive, brand name, generic and could not find one
> > this combo did not work with.
> > I used:
> >
> > -18 gauge silver solder/braze alloy, 45% silver, 30% copper and 25%
> > zinc, cadmium free.
> > - Borate fluoride mix, black high temperature flux (use in a well
> > ventilated area, a respirator wouldn't hurt.)
> >
> > The guy I bought my supplies from said this combo will work on copper,
> > brass, steel, stainless steel and cast iron.
> >
> > -nate
> >
>
>
> It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.

It allows the cable to be unanchored, removed and reinstalled in
housing, etc, more easily since you don't have to mess with removing
and reinstalling crimped on tips, nor with trimming off the squished
spot if it doesn't wanna go back through the housing. This loses some
relevance if you're one to be fastidious about no previously clamped
section of cable being between the anchor and the head, since cables
become much less re-usable then.

Some people think it's a signficantly better way of keeping the cable
from fraying. There's probably some truth in that. Crimped tips can go
MIA. Crimping technique and how well the tip fits the cable play a
role. My cable tips don't seem to go anywhere although this wasn't
always true.

Personally I'm in favor of skipping it for the sake of having a little
less toxicity in life.

One thing I'll note is that there are teflon coated cables that you
wouldn't necessarily know are coated by looking at them. No idea what
happens when you take a torch to teflon but I wouldn't particularly
want to breathe it.

I don't know if all the things I've seen about how it's really toxic to
weld zinced stuff would apply here (most cheap cables have a zinc
coating).

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> ...cheap at walmart...

Sorry, I won't even enter that store. Below-industry standard pay and
poor benefits. On NPR the other day they said 46% of Walmart employees
and their children are uninsured or on taxpayer funded public health
care programs. You and I pick up the heath care tab and they make
millions. Not a good practice to support IMO.

-nate

[Neil Brooks]

On 24 Mar 2006 11:08:28 -0800, "Llatikcuf" >
wrote:

>
>Neil Brooks wrote:
>>
>> Nice job, Nate. She's a beauty. Should also be good for a few
>> ten-thousandths in a 20k time trial....
>
>Who cares about time or speed. Two items that are overrated in the
>cycling world, what happened to cycling for fun and recreation?
>I only did it because I think it makes cables easier to deal with and
>last longer (for me anyways).

The time trial comment was a (obviously failed) attempt at humor. I
think your solder job looks quite elegant....

[Lou Holtman]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>Llatikcuf wrote:
>>
>>>After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
>>>finally did it.
>>>
>>>http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
>>>
>>
>>It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>>
>>Lou
>
>
> Maybe I'm just a spas, but when I'm threading used cables (through
> housing and those little holes in frame stops, shifters and other
> parts) one strand always catches and bends out of place making it
> impossible to thread it back through without cutting the end off the
> cable, reducing the length every time I re-thread it. Then I usually
> end up poking myself on that FU**ING little single strand and leaving
> small blood spots on the yellow handles of my wrenches. This is a
> simple fix to prevent the fraying, especially when threading cables.
>
> -nate
>


Ah, I never thread used cables and Campy cables come soldered when new.
Every 10000 km I install new cables. They are not that expensive.
Once again it looks very nice.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Sandy]

Dans le message de
oups.com,
Nate Knutson > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>> Llatikcuf wrote:
>>> After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years,
>>> I finally did it.
>>>
>>> http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
>>>
>>> For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
>>> involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8
>>> worth of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.
>>>
>>> Results were very good, better than expected. I tried a bunch of
>>> cables: cheap, expensive, brand name, generic and could not find one
>>> this combo did not work with.
>>> I used:
>>>
>>> -18 gauge silver solder/braze alloy, 45% silver, 30% copper and 25%
>>> zinc, cadmium free.
>>> - Borate fluoride mix, black high temperature flux (use in a well
>>> ventilated area, a respirator wouldn't hurt.)
>>>
>>> The guy I bought my supplies from said this combo will work on
>>> copper, brass, steel, stainless steel and cast iron.
>>>
>>> -nate
>>>
>>
>>
>> It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>
> It allows the cable to be unanchored, removed and reinstalled in
> housing, etc, more easily since you don't have to mess with removing
> and reinstalling crimped on tips, nor with trimming off the squished
> spot if it doesn't wanna go back through the housing. This loses some
> relevance if you're one to be fastidious about no previously clamped
> section of cable being between the anchor and the head, since cables
> become much less re-usable then.
>
> Some people think it's a signficantly better way of keeping the cable
> from fraying. There's probably some truth in that. Crimped tips can go
> MIA. Crimping technique and how well the tip fits the cable play a
> role. My cable tips don't seem to go anywhere although this wasn't
> always true.
>
> Personally I'm in favor of skipping it for the sake of having a little
> less toxicity in life.
>
> One thing I'll note is that there are teflon coated cables that you
> wouldn't necessarily know are coated by looking at them. No idea what
> happens when you take a torch to teflon but I wouldn't particularly
> want to breathe it.
>
> I don't know if all the things I've seen about how it's really toxic
> to weld zinced stuff would apply here (most cheap cables have a zinc
> coating).

I guess if it were for complexity, your solution is clean and complicated.
Try super glue - same result - simple.

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:44 +0100, Lou Holtman >
wrote:

>
>It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.

Cheaper and lighter than alu cable ends.

Jasper

[Ted Bennett]

> Lou Holtman wrote:
> >
> >It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>
> Cheaper and lighter than alu cable ends.
>
> Jasper

For the cost of the torch, the flux and the solder, you can purchase a
couple of lifetime supplies of those ends.

Lighter? In the absolute sense, but so is cleaning out your ear wax.

--
Ted Bennett

[[email protected]]

oh bull****
turn of the lights

[[email protected]]

one problem is the cable's applied solder tends to unsolder caws the
cable was never soldered in the first place due to unclean conditions
which despite one's expertise is difficult to control or eliminate due
to heating the cable cawsing significant oil flow from the uncleaned
areas to the more or less cleaned areas whew!

[[email protected]]

or - what you probabbbably did was bind the cable's wires together with
soldering, that is you surrounded the wires with solder in a a solder
package but did not effectively solder the wires together with solder -
see the difference?
solder is structurally weak: in eventually fracturing breaking apart,
wires fall out of the broken package and continue to fray on their
merry way

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> or - what you probabbbably did was bind the cable's wires together with
> soldering, that is you surrounded the wires with solder in a a solder
> package but did not effectively solder the wires together with solder -
> see the difference?
> solder is structurally weak: in eventually fracturing breaking apart,
> wires fall out of the broken package and continue to fray on their
> merry way

This is pretty hard solder, 45% silver. Not the soft 4-6% cheap stuff.
It's treated with acid flux, it actually bonds to the steel. Melting
point is ~1300°. It's tested in butt joints (end to end) at 20,000 to
30,000 lbs. I'll let you know how it works Gene.

-nate

[john]

Nate K wrote:

>One thing I'll note is that there are teflon coated cables that you
wouldn't necessarily know are coated by looking at them. No idea what
happens when you take a torch to teflon but I wouldn't particularly
want to breathe it.

Good question. Nate L, does your technique work w/ Teflon coated cable.
If it doesn't work w/ Teflon cables, then theirs no need to worry about
the fumes. If it does, then one should read the Teflon MSDS.

>I don't know if all the things I've seen about how it's really toxic to
weld zinced stuff would apply here (most cheap cables have a zinc
coating).

Despite all welding textbooks recommending not welding over zinc
coatings (galvanizing), for both weld quality reasons & health reasons,
it's done all the time in the real world. Some weld procedures are even
written & qualified to include welding over galvanizing. Unfortunately
many welders are exposed to huge quantities of airborne zinc. I in no
way approve of this, but at the same time, I doubt that the miniscule
quantities on the tip of a bicycle cable would matter.

I personally like soldered cable ends & finished mine that way through
the '80 & '90 or until I started using stainless steel cables.
(Whichever came first ;-)
Nate L, I appreciate very much, you posting your technique, Anal
Retentive, John

Most of my life, I thought that Anal Retentive had a hyphen.
Then I recently found out that it's a colon.

[Llatikcuf]

john wrote:
>
> Good question. Nate L, does your technique work w/ Teflon coated cable.
> If it doesn't work w/ Teflon cables, then theirs no need to worry about
> the fumes. If it does, then one should read the Teflon MSDS.

Teflon is a no, no. Read the MSDS, all kinds of terrible health risks.
I try not to use teflon anyways, kind of gimikey.


> >I don't know if all the things I've seen about how it's really toxic to
> weld zinced stuff would apply here (most cheap cables have a zinc
> coating).
>
> Despite all welding textbooks recommending not welding over zinc
> coatings (galvanizing), for both weld quality reasons & health reasons,
> it's done all the time in the real world. Some weld procedures are even
> written & qualified to include welding over galvanizing. Unfortunately
> many welders are exposed to huge quantities of airborne zinc. I in no
> way approve of this, but at the same time, I doubt that the miniscule
> quantities on the tip of a bicycle cable would matter.
>
> I personally like soldered cable ends & finished mine that way through
> the '80 & '90 or until I started using stainless steel cables.

I'm using stainless my friend, the flux is the key.

-Nate

> (Whichever came first ;-)
> Nate L, I appreciate very much, you posting your technique, Anal
> Retentive, John
>

[john]

wrote:
> or - what you probabbbably did was bind the cable's wires together with
> soldering, that is you surrounded the wires with solder in a a solder
> package but did not effectively solder the wires together with solder -
> see the difference?
> solder is structurally weak: in eventually fracturing breaking apart,
> wires fall out of the broken package and continue to fray on their
> merry way

Nate L wrote:

>This is pretty hard solder, 45% silver. Not the soft 4-6% cheap stuff.
It's treated with acid flux, it actually bonds to the steel. Melting
point is ~1300°. It's tested in butt joints (end to end) at 20,000 to
30,000 lbs. I'll let you know how it works Gene.

I never encountered a frayed soldered cable end until I ran into
Stainless, then they didn't start out fused.

Anal Retentive, John

[[email protected]]

right - search solder datakoll - i developed a cable soldering method -
but the wires work move within the package breaking the package apart

[john]

Nate L wrote:

>I'm using stainless my friend, the flux is the key.

Yes, I understand, that's why I appreciate your OP.
I'm just poking a little fun at myself w/ the "Anal Retentive, John"

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 24 Mar 2006 10:41:10 -0800, "Llatikcuf" >
wrote:

>After reading hundreds of posts concerning this for a couple years, I
>finally did it.
>
>http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/cableend1.jpg
>

Neat.

JT


****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
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[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> right - search solder datakoll - i developed a cable soldering method -

Not to be rude, but I have a hard time reading posts you author.
Especially long posts that have few correctly spelled words and no
punctuation.

> but the wires work move within the package breaking the package apart

Like I said, Gene, I will report back to you in a couple months and let
you know how it goes. If you're right I will let you know.
-nate

[philcycles]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> wrote:
> > right - search solder datakoll - i developed a cable soldering method -
>
> Not to be rude, but I have a hard time reading posts you author.
> Especially long posts that have few correctly spelled words and no
> punctuation.
>
> > but the wires work move within the package breaking the package apart
>
> Like I said, Gene, I will report back to you in a couple months and let
> you know how it goes. If you're right I will let you know.
> -nate

I've been doing this for 35 years on all types of cable including
stainless and I've NEVER had a strand break loose.
Phil Brown

[G.T.]

"Jasper Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:44 +0100, Lou Holtman >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>
> Cheaper

Including labor?

> and lighter than alu cable ends.
>

You sure?

Greg

[Ken Pisichko]

Ted Bennett wrote:

> For the cost of the torch, the flux and the solder, you can purchase a
> couple of lifetime supplies of those ends.
>
> Lighter? In the absolute sense, but so is cleaning out your ear wax.

You clean out ear wax to lose weight????? Fancy that!!

Most folks use tools for a variety of things. Orthopedic surgeons that
have worked on me use tools for more specific reasons. But I digress.....

The torch, flux and solder can be used for fixing pipes and wires. Cheap
as compared to the labour costs of a plumber/electrician!

With your comment I suppose you have never had to pay for the expertise
labour costs of a plumber/electrician, eh??

[Ted Bennett]

Ken Pisichko > wrote:

> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
> > For the cost of the torch, the flux and the solder, you can purchase a
> > couple of lifetime supplies of those ends.
> >
> > Lighter? In the absolute sense, but so is cleaning out your ear wax.
>
> You clean out ear wax to lose weight????? Fancy that!!
>
> Most folks use tools for a variety of things. Orthopedic surgeons that
> have worked on me use tools for more specific reasons. But I digress.....
>
> The torch, flux and solder can be used for fixing pipes and wires. Cheap
> as compared to the labour costs of a plumber/electrician!
>
> With your comment I suppose you have never had to pay for the expertise
> labour costs of a plumber/electrician, eh??


Hey, what's with the "u" in labor? And why the "eh?"....wait a minute
it's another of those darned Canadians. Take off, hoser.

--
Ted Bennett

[Mike Borean]

What a great sport cycling is. We can run a string of a couple dozen posts
on soldering or not soldering cable ends. I love it!

Your soldering job looks great. I will definately give it a try, your way.
I have tried many combinations of solder and flux without success, hopefully
you have given me/us the answer.

Failing at solder, I simply heat the cable ends and then touch them with a
hot melt glue stick. This works great, but doesn't look as good as your
solder job.

Have fun, stay safe.

Regards
Mike Borean

[[email protected]]

no, yawl miss the point. you say you can solder the expletive deleted
frayed ends together, and as phil brown sez - never - that's not the
potin
the point is - the vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassst majority were not born with
your soldering skills or luck and cannot get the ED frays to stay
together with solder so why bother?
geee, maybe only english majors or damon runyan can solder??

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> no, yawl miss the point. you say you can solder the expletive deleted
> frayed ends together, and as phil brown sez - never - that's not the
> potin
> the point is - the vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassst majority were not born with
> your soldering skills or luck and cannot get the ED frays to stay
> together with solder so why bother?
> geee, maybe only english majors or damon runyan can solder??

Gene,

Soldering skills? I do make silver jewelery as a hobby, but it's not so
hard.

Simple Steps:

1. Clean ends with Alcohol. Don't touch the cable end after this step.
2. Apply heat to cable until straw colored.
3. Apply flux generously (only where you want the solder) and heat
until red hot. (It's the right temperature when it gets that
silvery/white sparkle to it.)
4. Apply small amount of solder. A little bit goes a long way, too much
makes bad connections.
5. Quench and scrub with a wire brush/scotchbrite pad and sodium
bicarb.

Remember to heat the cable, not the solder. Keep your temperature the
same by moving the torch back and forth. The solder will follow the
heat, lead it where you want it to go by moving the flame.
Not so hard!

-nate

[[email protected]]

the trick is riding the wires of oil - i don't know if your method
fails - a cap is simply done - twist crimp and shout - rarely comes off
- time to TCS>5 m inutes - tool location - works every time - not
dangerous -

as opposed to soldering which is 180 degrees

and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing
and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing
and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing

[Ken Pisichko]

Ted Bennett wrote:

> Hey, what's with the "u" in labor? And why the "eh?"....wait a minute
> it's another of those darned Canadians. Take off, hoser.
>
> --
> Ted Bennett

Hello Ted,

How nice of you to vent your spleen. However you seem to forget some major
facts regarding Canadians and our differences in spelling. The use of the "u"
comes from our tradition - as in British, NOT American. Perhaps it symbolizes
our wide open spaces (bigger than the USA) and thus having a LOT of space for
you and "u" and anyone else. But I digress.....

That said, we are NOT the USA, nor will we be in the near future.

That patriotic statement aside, PLEASE remember the nation north of you who
supplies a LOT of electricity to the northern states, AND who supplies a LOT of
natural gas and petroleum products to the USA.

Oh, I forgot, you are a bicyclist who does not need and oil products and who
reads with candles made of beef tallow from USA raised livestock.

I will soon take off on a bicycling trip to Australia. Thank you for wishing me
bon voyage in advance. But the reference to hoser means squat to me. Please
elaborate. Do you expect me to believe that this news group caters SOLELY to
'Merican values and viewpoints? It does NOT state ANY nationality in it's name
does it??

Ken

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> the trick is riding the wires of oil - i don't know if your method
> fails - a cap is simply done - twist crimp and shout - rarely comes off
> - time to TCS>5 m inutes - tool location - works every time - not
> dangerous -
>
> as opposed to soldering which is 180 degrees
>
> and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing
> and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing
> and soldering may not pass back thru the cable housing

Done properly, the solder should "tin" the end. It should not be globed
on and when done properly the added circumference is barely
perceivable, causing no trouble when threaded through the housing. If
you have gobs of solder, your torch is not hot enough or you are plain
using to much.

I dislike cable ends as I feel they are a "band-aid" of a solution. I
reuse cables and like the way this method permanently resolves fraying
ends. In my mind the added time investment is well worth it.

I respect the fact that you have your way of doing things and I in no
way expect you to change that. I understand that you have tried the
soldering method with poor results. What I don't understand is why you
insist that all soldered ends fail. I have done my research, I bought
quality supplies and my final product meets expectations - it did not
fail.

When done properly my method is no more hazardous than cooking oatmeal.
If you have poor supplies and poor technique, expect poor results.

-nate

[[email protected]]

dead horse dead horse
lookit it this way - wal employees if not employed at wal would be on
the dole, waiting to mug you, or in a state institution.
wal's doing you a favor dude

[Chris Z The Wheelman]

I just take the aluminum cable end caps and glue tham on with epoxy or
superglue.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Ken Pisichko > wrote:

> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
> > Hey, what's with the "u" in labor? And why the "eh?"....wait a minute
> > it's another of those darned Canadians. Take off, hoser.
> >
> > --
> > Ted Bennett
>
> Hello Ted,
>
> How nice of you to vent your spleen. However you seem to forget some major
> facts regarding Canadians and our differences in spelling. The use of the "u"
> comes from our tradition - as in British, NOT American. Perhaps it symbolizes
> our wide open spaces (bigger than the USA) and thus having a LOT of space for
> you and "u" and anyone else. But I digress.....
>
> That said, we are NOT the USA, nor will we be in the near future.
>
> That patriotic statement aside, PLEASE remember the nation north of you who
> supplies a LOT of electricity to the northern states, AND who supplies a LOT of
> natural gas and petroleum products to the USA.
>
> Oh, I forgot, you are a bicyclist who does not need and oil products and who
> reads with candles made of beef tallow from USA raised livestock.
>
> I will soon take off on a bicycling trip to Australia. Thank you for wishing me
> bon voyage in advance. But the reference to hoser means squat to me. Please
> elaborate. Do you expect me to believe that this news group caters SOLELY to
> 'Merican values and viewpoints? It does NOT state ANY nationality in it's name
> does it??

Ken, Ken, Ken; take a breath, let it out. Relax.

--
Michael Press

[Ted Bennett]

Ken Pisichko > wrote:

> Ted Bennett wrote:
>
> > Hey, what's with the "u" in labor? And why the "eh?"....wait a minute
> > it's another of those darned Canadians. Take off, hoser.


> Hello Ted,
>
> How nice of you to vent your spleen. However you seem to forget some major
> facts regarding Canadians and our differences in spelling. The use of the "u"
> comes from our tradition - as in British, NOT American. Perhaps it symbolizes
> our wide open spaces (bigger than the USA) and thus having a LOT of space for
> you and "u" and anyone else. But I digress.....
>
> That said, we are NOT the USA, nor will we be in the near future.
>
> That patriotic statement aside, PLEASE remember the nation north of you who
> supplies a LOT of electricity to the northern states, AND who supplies a LOT of
> natural gas and petroleum products to the USA.
>
> Oh, I forgot, you are a bicyclist who does not need and oil products and who
> reads with candles made of beef tallow from USA raised livestock.
>
> I will soon take off on a bicycling trip to Australia. Thank you for wishing me
> bon voyage in advance. But the reference to hoser means squat to me. Please
> elaborate. Do you expect me to believe that this news group caters SOLELY to
> 'Merican values and viewpoints? It does NOT state ANY nationality in it's[sic]
> name does it??
>
> Ken


Try to relax, Ken. My comment was but a joke. I am Canadian, "hoser" is
a friendly term among many Canadians (and Americans in the northern
Midwest), I do use oil products and electricity, and as to "American"
values, those would encompass those of Canadians, as Canada is part of
America (but not of the United States).

I hope you have a great trip in Australia. Make sure you have plenty of
water in the sparsely populated Outback.

Ted

--
Ted Bennett

[philcycles]

Quoted text:
Done properly, the solder should "tin" the end. It should not be globed
on and when done properly the added circumference is barely
perceivable, causing no trouble when threaded through the housing. If
you have gobs of solder, your torch is not hot enough or you are plain
using to much.

I wipe it with a piece of steel wool. No globe, no excess.
Phil Brown

[Ken Pisichko]

Ted Bennett wrote:

> Try to relax, Ken. My comment was but a joke.

Oh :-)

> I am Canadian, "hoser" is
> a friendly term among many Canadians (and Americans in the northern
> Midwest),

Now I know. It seemed to be something disparaging. Sheesh, this
English/Canadian/American language and it's subtleties..

> I do use oil products and electricity, and as to "American"
> values, those would encompass those of Canadians, as Canada is part of
> America (but not of the United States).
>
> I hope you have a great trip in Australia. Make sure you have plenty of
> water in the sparsely populated Outback.

Thanks. Yes, water will be needed to cook all the dry foods I will be taking... I'll
have about 20 l with me - as well as a water filter and some bleach/halizone
tablets...

[Michael]

Llatikcuf wrote:
>
> Neil Brooks wrote:
> >
> > Nice job, Nate. She's a beauty. Should also be good for a few
> > ten-thousandths in a 20k time trial....
>
> Who cares about time or speed. Two items that are overrated in the
> cycling world, what happened to cycling for fun and recreation?
> I only did it because I think it makes cables easier to deal with and
> last longer (for me anyways).
>
> -nate


As the nays seem to have it thus far in the thread, I'll pitch in a "well done!"
I solder my cables too. Those silly little caps are one more special thing to
buy, store, and DROP!, and they don't fit through any hole or cable housing. A
soldered cable can be whipped right off the bike and put back on very easily.

When I asked the misc NG, several weeks ago, what to do for a cracked fork blade
on my *old* *French* but favorite bike, some of the advice was to retire the
thing and buy new because bikes have improved quite a bit over the past 25
years. While that last bit might be true, I ignored the sage advice, tracked
down a beautiful new fork and headset, and am back on the road ... for US$48.

The only goo reason I can think of for futzing with those silly little crimp
caps instead of soldering is that one isn't comfortable with or doesn't have
soldering equipment.

--
Michael

[RonSonic]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:44:14 -0600, Ken Pisichko > wrote:

>Ted Bennett wrote:
>
>> Try to relax, Ken. My comment was but a joke.
>
>Oh :-)
>
>> I am Canadian, "hoser" is
>> a friendly term among many Canadians (and Americans in the northern
>> Midwest),
>
>Now I know. It seemed to be something disparaging. Sheesh, this
>English/Canadian/American language and it's subtleties..


It is the duty of the English-speaking peoples to amuse one another with their
accents and regional abuses of the mother tongue.

Yes, that means I'm obliged to say things like "Howdy Ma'am."

Ron
>> I do use oil products and electricity, and as to "American"
>> values, those would encompass those of Canadians, as Canada is part of
>> America (but not of the United States).
>>
>> I hope you have a great trip in Australia. Make sure you have plenty of
>> water in the sparsely populated Outback.
>
>Thanks. Yes, water will be needed to cook all the dry foods I will be taking... I'll
>have about 20 l with me - as well as a water filter and some bleach/halizone
>tablets...

[spin156]

john wrote:
> Nate L wrote:
>
> >(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
>
> You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
> don't you?
>
> Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
> $2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
> to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
> cord & it was over a buck.
>
> Thanks again for all the info, John

I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
$7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.

[jim beam]

spin156 wrote:
> john wrote:
>
>>Nate L wrote:
>>
>>
>>>(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
>>
>>You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
>>don't you?
>>
>>Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
>>$2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
>>to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
>>cord & it was over a buck.
>>
>>Thanks again for all the info, John
>
>
> I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
> in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
> $7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
> heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
>
y'all need to be very careful using torches to tin cable ends. if the
cable is over-heated, the metal strands start to soften and that can
have dire consequences for your health and/or dental plan.

[Peter Cole]

Michael wrote:

>
> As the nays seem to have it thus far in the thread, I'll pitch in a "well done!"
> I solder my cables too. Those silly little caps are one more special thing to
> buy, store, and DROP!, and they don't fit through any hole or cable housing. A
> soldered cable can be whipped right off the bike and put back on very easily.

Sure, but how often do you need to remove and refit the same cable? It's
a blue moon situation and doesn't do any harm to replace the cable. If
you're really that frugal, you can solder just before that rare R&R
operation.

> The only goo reason I can think of for futzing with those silly little crimp
> caps instead of soldering is that one isn't comfortable with or doesn't have
> soldering equipment.

I have soldering (and welding and brazing) equipment, but it's a lot to
fuss with just to install a cable. A lighter and glue stick work as well
but are still a bother, if I don't have a cap, I just use a spoke nipple.

[Paul Kopit]

On 24 Mar 2006 10:41:10 -0800, "Llatikcuf" >
wrote:

>For anyone that was wondering, it's very easy. Nothing expensive
>involved, I used a $2 butane pencil torch without trouble and $8 worth
>of supplies. Took about ~30 seconds per cable.

Same torch and a piece of thermoplastic plastic like polyethylene. I
use an old, black water bottle cap. I was using hot melt adhesive
stick 'til I read someone here using plastic.

[Michael]

Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> "Michael" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> <snip>
>
> > The only goo reason I can think of for futzing with those silly little
> crimp
> > caps instead of soldering is that one isn't comfortable with or doesn't
> have
> > soldering equipment.
> >
> The only reason I can think of futzing with a torch is removing and
> installing the cable again and again. I see no reason to do that. Even if I
> would, leaving an extra 5 cm of cable gives you enough length to do that 3
> or 4 times. After that it is time for a new cable. They are cheap. Crimp
> caps solves the problem of fraying but also get rid if the sharp ends. YMMV
> though.
>
> Lou


If you don't remove and replace, then fine. Keep right on crimping. :-)

Since you mentioned sharp ends, I will mention that tinning a cable and then
cutting and dressing with a Dremel-type tool leaves no "needles" that stab one.
A cable prepared in that way slides back into cable housing "a treat" (as Brits
say).

--
Michael

[Lou Holtman]

Michael wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>"Michael" > wrote in message
...
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>The only goo reason I can think of for futzing with those silly little
>>
>>crimp
>>
>>>caps instead of soldering is that one isn't comfortable with or doesn't
>>
>>have
>>
>>>soldering equipment.
>>>
>>
>>The only reason I can think of futzing with a torch is removing and
>>installing the cable again and again. I see no reason to do that. Even if I
>>would, leaving an extra 5 cm of cable gives you enough length to do that 3
>>or 4 times. After that it is time for a new cable. They are cheap. Crimp
>>caps solves the problem of fraying but also get rid if the sharp ends. YMMV
>>though.
>>
>>Lou
>
>
>
> If you don't remove and replace, then fine. Keep right on crimping. :-)
>
> Since you mentioned sharp ends, I will mention that tinning a cable and then
> cutting and dressing with a Dremel-type tool leaves no "needles" that stab one.
> A cable prepared in that way slides back into cable housing "a treat" (as Brits
> say).
>


Again more work ;-)
Doesn't your cable gets 'damaged' under the attaching bolt?

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Llatikcuf]

Lou Holtman wrote:
>Again more work ;-)
> Doesn't your cable gets 'damaged' under the attaching bolt?
>

No, just watch the torque when tightening it down.

-nate

[Lou Holtman]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>Again more work ;-)
>>Doesn't your cable gets 'damaged' under the attaching bolt?
>>
>
>
> No, just watch the torque when tightening it down.
>
> -nate

When I torque my brake cable according to spec (5 Nm), the cable gets
flattened and difficult to pull through the casing.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[Llatikcuf]

spin156 wrote:
> john wrote:
> > Nate L wrote:
> >
> > >(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
> >
> > You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
> > don't you?
> >
> > Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
> > $2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
> > to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
> > cord & it was over a buck.
> >
> > Thanks again for all the info, John
>
> I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
> in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
> $7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
> heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.

http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg

$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
it's over $2.

-nate

[Llatikcuf]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
> > Lou Holtman wrote:
> >
> >>Again more work ;-)
> >>Doesn't your cable gets 'damaged' under the attaching bolt?
> >>
> >
> >
> > No, just watch the torque when tightening it down.
> >
> > -nate
>
> When I torque my brake cable according to spec (5 Nm), the cable gets
> flattened and difficult to pull through the casing.
>

I give up. My method works for me, I will cease to make claims that it
might work for others. My cables don't get flattened or dis-formed.
There's a little rounded indentation on my components that the cable
fits into, it doesn't get smashed. I have cables that are 7-10 years
old on my bikes, no reason to replace a gear cable that's not broken or
fraying, that would just be wasteful. Of course I also pickup tubes off
the side of the road (left by other cyclist assholes, you know the
racer type that can't be bothered to carry their own trash), I patch
them and use them. Haven't bought a tube for quite some time. Call me
crazy.

-nate

[Llatikcuf]

jim beam wrote:

> y'all need to be very careful using torches to tin cable ends. if the
> cable is over-heated, the metal strands start to soften and that can
> have dire consequences for your health and/or dental plan.

Very true my friend. Only heat the tip of the cable. An advanced move
it to "try masturbation" while soldering the end.

-nate

[Llatikcuf]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > y'all need to be very careful using torches to tin cable ends. if the
> > cable is over-heated, the metal strands start to soften and that can
> > have dire consequences for your health and/or dental plan.
>
> Very true my friend. Only heat the tip of the cable. An advanced move
> it to "try masturbation" while soldering the end.
>
> -nate

Oops, sorry Jim. For some reason I thought your post was authored by
Bill Sornson, who seems to have an obsession with "masturbation" in a
previous post.

See: "Is bike riding much more physically demanding than driving a
car", if you feel the need.

apologies,

nate

[Sorni]

Llatikcuf (AKA "Nate") wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> y'all need to be very careful using torches to tin cable ends. if
>>> the cable is over-heated, the metal strands start to soften and
>>> that can have dire consequences for your health and/or dental plan.
>>
>> Very true my friend. Only heat the tip of the cable. An advanced move
>> it to "try masturbation" while soldering the end.
>>
>> -nate
>
> Oops, sorry Jim. For some reason I thought your post was authored by
> Bill Sornson, who seems to have an obsession with "masturbation" in a
> previous post.

And this represents your usual level of honest disclosure? A) Someone
posted that rigorous bike riding just wasn't hard enough for their exalted
physical demands. B) Among the many sarcastic and/or trolled replies, I
suggested the OP try masturbation while training to not only increase the
level of exertion, but difficulty as well. But don't let that stop you from
posting a needless insult in a completely separate thread some three or four
days later. Yeah, *I'm* obsessed...

> See: "Is bike riding much more physically demanding than driving a
> car", if you feel the need.

Wow, you really hang on to stuff, doncha? (Whoever the hell you are,
"Nate".)
>
> apologies,

That's a start.

> nate

Who?

[Llatikcuf]

Sorni wrote:
>
> And this represents your usual level of honest disclosure? A) Someone
> posted that rigorous bike riding just wasn't hard enough for their exalted
> physical demands. B) Among the many sarcastic and/or trolled replies, I
> suggested the OP try masturbation while training to not only increase the
> level of exertion, but difficulty as well. But don't let that stop you from
> posting a needless insult in a completely separate thread some three or four
> days later. Yeah, *I'm* obsessed...
>
> > See: "Is bike riding much more physically demanding than driving a
> > car", if you feel the need.
>
> Wow, you really hang on to stuff, doncha? (Whoever the hell you are,
> "Nate".)
> >
> > apologies,
>
> That's a start.
>
> > nate
>


Wow! A little hot headed. But your right Bill, it's my problem. Take
you alprazolam and calm the **** down. Stress kills my friend.

-nate

> Who?

What, do you want my address, phone number, birthday and a list of
medications I'm taking? Look at my IP, you have my name and where I'm
posting from, what more do you want? It's a god damn message board
about bicycles - toys.

[Sorni]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Sorni wrote:
>>
>> And this represents your usual level of honest disclosure? A)
>> Someone posted that rigorous bike riding just wasn't hard enough for
>> their exalted physical demands. B) Among the many sarcastic and/or
>> trolled replies, I suggested the OP try masturbation while training
>> to not only increase the level of exertion, but difficulty as well.
>> But don't let that stop you from posting a needless insult in a
>> completely separate thread some three or four days later. Yeah,
>> *I'm* obsessed...
>>
>>> See: "Is bike riding much more physically demanding than driving a
>>> car", if you feel the need.
>>
>> Wow, you really hang on to stuff, doncha? (Whoever the hell you are,
>> "Nate".)
>>>
>>> apologies,
>>
>> That's a start.
>>
>>> nate
>>
>
>
> Wow! A little hot headed. But your right Bill, it's my problem. Take
> you alprazolam and calm the **** down. Stress kills my friend.

Not hot-headed at all. Just curious why someone I don't know or recall
interacting with would drag me into a completely unrelated thread, using my
full name for some reason known only to you (it sure SEEMS to have a point,
although what that might be I do not know). Now, I'm sure you can produce
some exchange between us, but I just sort of tune out all anonymous g- and
hot-mailers and yahoos as apparently they have stuff to hide. (And they ALL
seem to over-snip to obscure content, which to me seems less than honest.)

> -nate
>
>> Who?

> What, do you want my address, phone number, birthday and a list of
> medications I'm taking? Look at my IP, you have my name and where I'm
> posting from, what more do you want? It's a god damn message board
> about bicycles - toys.

All I see is an anonymous g-mailer. I'm really not in to sleuthing headers
(as you say, it's just Usenet).

If all this was because you mistook a poster for me and referenced something
I wrote, then I'm sorry for any over-reaction. (Still don't "get" using my
full name, though. Care to explain the point of that, "nate"?)

Bill "left scratching head (and no, that wasn't yet another masturbation
reference)" S.

[Llatikcuf]

Sorni wrote:
>
> Not hot-headed at all. Just curious why someone I don't know or recall
> interacting with would drag me into a completely unrelated thread, using my
> full name for some reason known only to you (it sure SEEMS to have a point,
> although what that might be I do not know).

Bill,

I have been around for awhile, but probably not as long as you have.
Again, my mistake, I already explained my error in mistaking Jim for
you. I used you full name because you usually sign your full name and
there might be more than one bill on this newsgroup.

> Now, I'm sure you can produce
> some exchange between us, but I just sort of tune out all anonymous g- and
> hot-mailers and yahoos as apparently they have stuff to hide.

Or they just hate getting a ton of spam in their e-mail. Google Groups
tied to a Gmail address works very well for people who post from
multiple locations from multiple computers.

> (And they ALL seem to over-snip to obscure content, which to me seems less
> than honest.)
>

I usually only include what I am directly replying to, I feel that the
previous post is easily accessible should someone have a question.

>
> All I see is an anonymous g-mailer. I'm really not in to sleuthing headers
> (as you say, it's just Usenet).

Like I said, what more do you want? What's the difference between a
gmail account and me creating an account on my server to post with? I
can create and delete a server account just as fast as a gmail account.
Hell, with my server account I could have different name everyday and
bounce the post through a proxy and have a different IP everyday. Does
it really matter? In the end, I like the gmail web interface and it
automatically forwards my unread mail to me at home.

> If all this was because you mistook a poster for me and referenced something
> I wrote, then I'm sorry for any over-reaction. (Still don't "get" using my
> full name, though. Care to explain the point of that, "nate"?)

>From now on if I should feel the need to refer to you, how would prefer
I do it?

> Bill "left scratching head (and no, that wasn't yet another masturbation
> reference)" S.

-nate

[Sorni]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Sorni wrote:
>>
>> Not hot-headed at all. Just curious why someone I don't know or
>> recall interacting with would drag me into a completely unrelated
>> thread, using my full name for some reason known only to you (it
>> sure SEEMS to have a point, although what that might be I do not
>> know).
>
> Bill,
>
> I have been around for awhile, but probably not as long as you have.
> Again, my mistake, I already explained my error in mistaking Jim for
> you. I used you full name because you usually sign your full name and
> there might be more than one bill on this newsgroup.

I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my full name.
The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of antagonism (usually
due to political stuff).

>> Now, I'm sure you can produce
>> some exchange between us, but I just sort of tune out all anonymous
>> g- and hot-mailers and yahoos as apparently they have stuff to hide.
>
> Or they just hate getting a ton of spam in their e-mail.

Exactly why I went back to "Sorni" as a user name and sign Bill S. But
thanks for putting the full version out there again for the bots to pick up.
(Not that I'd be spam-free if you hadn't. I used to get almost zero, but
last year or so I get tons.)

Bill "last name 'sitooya" S.

[Llatikcuf]

Sorni wrote:
>
> I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my full name.
> The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of antagonism (usually
> due to political stuff).

Well bill, with all due respect, a strong personality like yours is
bound to rub a few the wrong way. Not much we can do.

> Exactly why I went back to "Sorni" as a user name and sign Bill S. But
> thanks for putting the full version out there again for the bots to pick up.

No problem, in the future I will try to refrain.

> (Not that I'd be spam-free if you hadn't. I used to get almost zero, but
> last year or so I get tons.)

It's a never ending uphill battle my friend, as long as e-mail is free
spam is never going away.

> Bill "last name 'sitooya" S.

-nate

[Ken Pisichko]

Llatikcuf wrote:

> Of course I also pickup tubes off
> the side of the road (left by other cyclist assholes, you know the
> racer type that can't be bothered to carry their own trash), I patch
> them and use them. Haven't bought a tube for quite some time. Call me
> crazy.
>
> -nate

Nope! Just smart, frugal and "environmentally green". Carry on :-)

Ken

[Ken Pisichko]

RonSonic wrote:

> It is the duty of the English-speaking peoples to amuse one another with their
> accents and regional abuses of the mother tongue.
>
> Yes, that means I'm obliged to say things like "Howdy Ma'am."
>
> Ron

So be it, but last time I checked I can say for certain that I ain't NO Ma'am. :-) That
isn't what you meant by your comment is it ;-) and ?

Ken

[john]

Nate L. wrote

>$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
>it's over $2.

$2.12 is fine. I'd briefly looked for a butane torch, & hadn't found
anything <$15. Admittedly it was a casual search, & was left w/ the
mistaken impression that none were available, anywhere near that cheap.

Again, I appreciate all your info very much, John

[Sorni]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> Sorni wrote:
>>
>> I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my full
>> name. The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of
>> antagonism (usually due to political stuff).
>
> Well bill, with all due respect, a strong personality like yours is
> bound to rub a few the wrong way. Not much we can do.

SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! (Hint: the discussion was the use of my full name
BY YOU, which you claimed {now snipped BY YOU} was because that's how I sign
my posts {it's not}.) You, sir, are disingenuous at best.

See ya...

[G.T.]

"Sorni" > wrote in message
...
> Llatikcuf wrote:
> > Sorni wrote:
> >>
> >> I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my full
> >> name. The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of
> >> antagonism (usually due to political stuff).
> >
> > Well bill, with all due respect, a strong personality like yours is
> > bound to rub a few the wrong way. Not much we can do.
>
> SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! (Hint: the discussion was the use of my full
name
> BY YOU, which you claimed {now snipped BY YOU} was because that's how I
sign
> my posts {it's not}.) You, sir, are disingenuous at best.
>

You lost me there.

Greg

[Llatikcuf]

Sorni wrote:
> SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! (Hint: the discussion was the use of my full name
> BY YOU, which you claimed {now snipped BY YOU} was because that's how I sign
> my posts {it's not}.) You, sir, are disingenuous at best.
>
> See ya...

Bill, I'm begging you to add me to your kill file.

-nate

[[email protected]]

When done properly my method is no more hazardous than cooking oatmeal.

If you have poor supplies and poor technique, expect poor results.

oatmeal?

have you searched for 'automatic transmision fluid' in tech archive?

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> When done properly my method is no more hazardous than cooking oatmeal.
>
> If you have poor supplies and poor technique, expect poor results.
>
> oatmeal?

I like oatmeal.

You have to eat fiber to be regular, you have to be regular to be happy
= eat fiber be happy, might be more effective than an ssri.

>
> have you searched for 'automatic transmision fluid' in tech archive?

um, no I have not. Why?

-nate

[Sorni]

G.T. wrote:
> "Sorni" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Llatikcuf wrote:
>>> Sorni wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my
>>>> full name. The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of
>>>> antagonism (usually due to political stuff).
>>>
>>> Well bill, with all due respect, a strong personality like yours is
>>> bound to rub a few the wrong way. Not much we can do.
>>
>> SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! (Hint: the discussion was the use of my
>> full name BY YOU, which you claimed {now snipped BY YOU} was because
>> that's how I sign my posts {it's not}.) You, sir, are disingenuous
>> at best.
>>
>
> You lost me there.

Sigh. Someone I don't know brought me into this thread in an insulting
manner, using my "full" name (even spelled right), and then claimed it's
because that's how I sign my posts (and for some reason they mixed me up
with jim beam of all people!). This person snips relevant content from his
replies, too, so I can see why you got lost.

Easier to just re-read the threadlet.

Bill "still say ostriches are creepy eyeballically" S.

[[email protected]]

studies show people using solder for cable ends use ATF for chain lube!!

[Llatikcuf]

wrote:
> studies show people using solder for cable ends use ATF for chain lube!!

Can you cite the study(s)? :)

-nate

[RonSonic]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:24:44 -0600, Ken Pisichko > wrote:

>RonSonic wrote:
>
>> It is the duty of the English-speaking peoples to amuse one another with their
>> accents and regional abuses of the mother tongue.
>>
>> Yes, that means I'm obliged to say things like "Howdy Ma'am."
>>
>> Ron
>
>So be it, but last time I checked I can say for certain that I ain't NO Ma'am. :-) That
>isn't what you meant by your comment is it ;-) and ?

NoSireeBob!

Ron

[RonSonic]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:03:55 GMT, "Sorni" >
wrote:

>G.T. wrote:
>> "Sorni" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Llatikcuf wrote:
>>>> Sorni wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I sign my name "Bill {insert pithy comment perhaps} S.", not my
>>>>> full name. The only people I recall USING my full name do so out of
>>>>> antagonism (usually due to political stuff).
>>>>
>>>> Well bill, with all due respect, a strong personality like yours is
>>>> bound to rub a few the wrong way. Not much we can do.
>>>
>>> SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! (Hint: the discussion was the use of my
>>> full name BY YOU, which you claimed {now snipped BY YOU} was because
>>> that's how I sign my posts {it's not}.) You, sir, are disingenuous
>>> at best.
>>>
>>
>> You lost me there.
>
>Sigh. Someone I don't know brought me into this thread in an insulting
>manner, using my "full" name (even spelled right), and then claimed it's
>because that's how I sign my posts (and for some reason they mixed me up
>with jim beam of all people!). This person snips relevant content from his
>replies, too, so I can see why you got lost.
>
>Easier to just re-read the threadlet.

No, don't do it. Save yourself while you still can. Run away. RUNNNNNNNN!!!!!

>Bill "still say ostriches are creepy eyeballically" S.

Ron "not that damn clever: B.

[A Muzi]

>>>Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>Again more work ;-)
>>>>Doesn't your cable gets 'damaged' under the attaching bolt?

>>Llatikcuf wrote:
>>>No, just watch the torque when tightening it down.

> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>When I torque my brake cable according to spec (5 Nm), the cable gets
>>flattened and difficult to pull through the casing.

Llatikcuf wrote:
> I give up. My method works for me, I will cease to make claims that it
> might work for others. My cables don't get flattened or dis-formed.
> There's a little rounded indentation on my components that the cable
> fits into, it doesn't get smashed. I have cables that are 7-10 years
> old on my bikes, no reason to replace a gear cable that's not broken or
> fraying, that would just be wasteful. Of course I also pickup tubes off
> the side of the road (left by other cyclist assholes, you know the
> racer type that can't be bothered to carry their own trash), I patch
> them and use them. Haven't bought a tube for quite some time. Call me
> crazy.

Yeah, why would one remove a cable? I turn up the adjuster
once in a while, then turn it all the way back when I change
shoes. Haven't put a wrench to my brake cable anchor in
about 15 years (new cables after car crash).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Dave Larrington]

In article >, A Muzi
) wrote:

> Yeah, why would one remove a cable?

Much easier to remove heavy concentrations of Skog(tm) from derailleurs
if they are not attached to the bike?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat
Him.

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:08:31 -0800, "G.T." >
wrote:
>"Jasper Janssen" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:44 +0100, Lou Holtman >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >It looks nice....but why? I still don't get it.
>>
>> Cheaper
>
>Including labor?

I don't know about you, but I work very cheap when I'm doing things for
myself, especially fun things.

>> and lighter than alu cable ends.
>
>You sure?

No. But it still looks better, especially on gear which (unlike modern
Shimano stuff) doesn't have a specific place to stash the cable end.

Jasper

[Jasper Janssen]

On 27 Mar 2006 09:17:15 -0800, "Llatikcuf" > wrote:

>spin156 wrote:
>> john wrote:
>> > Nate L wrote:
>> >
>> > >(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
>> >
>> > You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
>> > don't you?
>> >
>> > Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
>> > $2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
>> > to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
>> > cord & it was over a buck.
>> >
>> > Thanks again for all the info, John
>>
>> I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
>> in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
>> $7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
>> heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
>
>http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg
>
>$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
>it's over $2.

I've got the exact same one. Twice, actually, the first time some 20 years
ago and the second time about now. I paid either 2.5 or 5 euro at the
local Home-Depot-style building supplies Gamma store, this last time.
Funny how those exact blue anodised alu thing are all over the world and
all over time.

It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.


Jasper

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Jasper Janssen > wrote:

> On 27 Mar 2006 09:17:15 -0800, "Llatikcuf" > wrote:
>
> >spin156 wrote:
> >> john wrote:
> >> > Nate L wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
> >> >
> >> > You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
> >> > don't you?
> >> >
> >> > Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
> >> > $2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
> >> > to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
> >> > cord & it was over a buck.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks again for all the info, John
> >>
> >> I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
> >> in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
> >> $7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
> >> heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
> >
> >http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg
> >
> >$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
> >it's over $2.
>
> I've got the exact same one. Twice, actually, the first time some 20 years
> ago and the second time about now. I paid either 2.5 or 5 euro at the
> local Home-Depot-style building supplies Gamma store, this last time.
> Funny how those exact blue anodised alu thing are all over the world and
> all over time.
>
> It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.

Kitchen shops sell a refillable butane torch. Perfect for
crème brûlée, soldering small parts, and lighting candles.

--
Michael Press

[Neil Brooks]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:00:40 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:

>In article >,
> Jasper Janssen > wrote:
>
>> On 27 Mar 2006 09:17:15 -0800, "Llatikcuf" > wrote:
>>
>> >spin156 wrote:
>> >> john wrote:
>> >> > Nate L wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
>> >> >
>> >> > You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
>> >> > don't you?
>> >> >
>> >> > Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
>> >> > $2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
>> >> > to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
>> >> > cord & it was over a buck.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks again for all the info, John
>> >>
>> >> I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
>> >> in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
>> >> $7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
>> >> heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
>> >
>> >http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg
>> >
>> >$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
>> >it's over $2.
>>
>> I've got the exact same one. Twice, actually, the first time some 20 years
>> ago and the second time about now. I paid either 2.5 or 5 euro at the
>> local Home-Depot-style building supplies Gamma store, this last time.
>> Funny how those exact blue anodised alu thing are all over the world and
>> all over time.
>>
>> It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.
>
>Kitchen shops sell a refillable butane torch. Perfect for
>crème brûlée, soldering small parts, and lighting candles.

I just have to see if I can do that as well as you did:

è ... û ... é

COOL, albeit I DID have to look on the 'net to do it.

Well done. Carry on.

[Lou Holtman]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article >,
> Jasper Janssen > wrote:
>
>
>>On 27 Mar 2006 09:17:15 -0800, "Llatikcuf" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>spin156 wrote:
>>>
>>>>john wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Nate L wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
>>>>>
>>>>>You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
>>>>>don't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
>>>>>$2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
>>>>>to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
>>>>>cord & it was over a buck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks again for all the info, John
>>>>
>>>>I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
>>>>in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
>>>>$7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
>>>>heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
>>>
>>>http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg
>>>
>>>$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
>>>it's over $2.
>>
>>I've got the exact same one. Twice, actually, the first time some 20 years
>>ago and the second time about now. I paid either 2.5 or 5 euro at the
>>local Home-Depot-style building supplies Gamma store, this last time.
>>Funny how those exact blue anodised alu thing are all over the world and
>>all over time.
>>
>>It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.
>
>
> Kitchen shops sell a refillable butane torch. Perfect for
> crème brûlée, soldering small parts, and lighting candles.
>


You call that a torch? It's like soldering with a candle.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

[[email protected]]

not from hear but if yawl type
'atf' into the tech archive's search box yawl get 49 cites
yawl crunch from there!
crunchcrunchcrunch

speaking of crunch -
at a rate of 50 theologic violent deaths rate per day
Iraq's violent TDR is only 3 times the auto death rate for florida
in which in passing - rates for pickups are 2-3x higher than sedans

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Lou Holtman > wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Jasper Janssen > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On 27 Mar 2006 09:17:15 -0800, "Llatikcuf" > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>spin156 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>john wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Nate L wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>(It's the right temperature when it gets that silvery/white sparkle to it.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You mean the flux, when you say silvery/white sparkle, not the metal,
> >>>>>don't you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Also in an earlier post you mentioned a $2 torch. Where does one find a
> >>>>>$2 torch? Hell, I'd be happy to settle for $5. I know you are not going
> >>>>>to say "WallyWorld" :-) I bought a lighter for sizing the ends of nylon
> >>>>>cord & it was over a buck.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks again for all the info, John
> >>>>
> >>>>I don't know about $2, but I found a couple of different butane torches
> >>>>in the tool section at Home Depot for less than $10. I got one for
> >>>>$7.95 and it's refillable with standard butane canisters. It will
> >>>>heat up to 1700C/3100F - plenty hot enough for tinning cable ends.
> >>>
> >>>http://llatikcuf.home.comcast.net/torch.jpg
> >>>
> >>>$1.99 at local Ace Hardware. I guess if you include tax (6.6%) then
> >>>it's over $2.
> >>
> >>I've got the exact same one. Twice, actually, the first time some 20 years
> >>ago and the second time about now. I paid either 2.5 or 5 euro at the
> >>local Home-Depot-style building supplies Gamma store, this last time.
> >>Funny how those exact blue anodised alu thing are all over the world and
> >>all over time.
> >>
> >>It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.
> >
> > Kitchen shops sell a refillable butane torch. Perfect for
> > crème brûlée, soldering small parts, and lighting candles.
>
> You call that a torch? It's like soldering with a candle.

You mean this Roburn MT-770 that brings a brake cable to
orange-red in under five seconds? 64 ml tank capacity.

--
Michael Press

[Llatikcuf]

Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> You call that a torch? It's like soldering with a candle.
>
> Lou
> --

Lou, is it possible for you to direct a constructive comment my
direction?

-nate

[Lou Holtman]

"Llatikcuf" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Lou Holtman wrote:
> >
> > You call that a torch? It's like soldering with a candle.
> >
> > Lou
> > --
>
> Lou, is it possible for you to direct a constructive comment my
> direction?

Like I said the soldering job looked very nice. If it work for you that's
fine with me. No problem. I just see no need to do so if you use good
quality casing. I have a five year old ATB with the first set of derailleur
cables. Never took them off and still shifts very good. I don't understand
people who unnecessary dismantle half the bike., just for cleaning ;-)

Lou

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:00:40 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:
>In article >,
> Jasper Janssen > wrote:

>> It's a pretty shortlived flame, though, with a full magazine.
>
>Kitchen shops sell a refillable butane torch. Perfect for
>crème brûlée, soldering small parts, and lighting candles.

The kitchenshop version is merely a food-snob version of the standard
plumber's torch which, admittedly, looks out of place in a kithen even if
it's never been used in the field.

Jasper

[Király]

I like to pre-cut and solder my spare cables to the correct length, then
take them on tour with me. If I'm in the middle of nowhere and my cable
breaks, all I need is an allen wrench to put the new one in. No need to
futz with cutters and crimps at the side of the road.

But lately I have found it's hard to find cables around here that can be
soldered. So i've switched to Krazy Glue, which seems to work just as
well.

--
K.