RR Carlsruhe West

[essendon93]

Well I decided to do my first road race on Saturday.

Figured since I've riden C-grade at Kew, I should enter C-grade for the
road also.

I had no idea what to expect, and basically the aim was not to get
dropped. The course was pretty flat, consisting of a 25km loop, with a
small hill around the back, and another leading up to the start/finish
line.

It was decided that C-grade would do only 2 laps instead of 3 because
of the warm conditions. Certainly happy with that as an intro to
racing.

Pace started off nice and easy, slowly picking up after the first turn.
A few half-hearted attacks, which didn't last long and basically just
resulted in little surges, which didn't hurt anyone. Only just hung-on
going over the hill at the back of the course. The gravel was a problem
on the third corner, which spoilt things, as the bunch basicly had to
slow right down.

On the second lap I moved up towards the first couple of riders, coming
up to the hill, in which I managed to get spat out the back. Had to TT
to get back with the bunch..very nearly got dropped! Thankfully noone
wanted to contribute at the front, which allowed myself to recover
(sort of), and keep the bunch together. 500m to go I was sitting in
3rd wheel, well placed, but then I got a rush of blood and gunned it at
the start of the rise to the line. Ended up out the back, as I clearly
went to early....not that it would have mattered anyway.

Stats 50km
Av speed 36.1

Why Jono did you have to plant the seed of Coleraine....thinking
thinking :rolleyes:


--
essendon93

[Bleve]

essendon93 wrote:
> I got a rush of blood and gunned it at
> the start of the rise to the line.


Ahha! Leadout :)

Well done on finishing your first RR. That uphill finish on that
course is a *******!

[Andres]

Last year I got a 3rd in D grade on that cicuit. Did the very same
thing you did - there were 3 of us in a break.

How many in your race?

I might do this weeks race at Balliang in C. Last year I got dropped
from the A+B+C+D group (not that many riders turned up) and I (i) got
lost, and (ii) got attacked by a magpie, - pulled out after one lap.
Hopefully will do better this time.

Also, I just entered Coleraine in D. Even though I've been going ok
with C grade races, the last 2 tours I've done in C grade (deBortoli,
TdBright) I've been dropped in the first stage, and didn't even
complete either tour.

Come to think of it, I didn't complete last year's Coleraine tour
either ! Revenge is at hand ...

-Andres.

[Bleve]

Andres wrote:
> Last year I got a 3rd in D grade on that cicuit. Did the very same
> thing you did - there were 3 of us in a break.
>
> How many in your race?
>
> I might do this weeks race at Balliang in C. Last year I got dropped
> from the A+B+C+D group (not that many riders turned up) and I (i) got
> lost, and (ii) got attacked by a magpie, - pulled out after one lap.
> Hopefully will do better this time.
>
> Also, I just entered Coleraine in D. Even though I've been going ok
> with C grade races, the last 2 tours I've done in C grade (deBortoli,
> TdBright) I've been dropped in the first stage, and didn't even
> complete either tour.


It's usual to ride down a grade in opens compared to regional races.
That said, there's nothing worse than riding a grade (fairly) when some
arsehole from a higher grade drops in to clean up. We desperatly need
a fair and *enforced* grading scheme in Australian road racing. The
yanks and the poms can do it, so can we ....




>
> Come to think of it, I didn't complete last year's Coleraine tour
> either ! Revenge is at hand ...
>
> -Andres.

[Jono L]

Hey Carl have you raced at Baliang before? Any tips on the course? So
far i haven't found anyone who's raced there.

Cheers,

Jono


--
Jono L

[Bleve]

Jono L wrote:
> Hey Carl have you raced at Baliang before? Any tips on the course? So
> far i haven't found anyone who's raced there.

I might have, if that's the one out the back of Lara? It was a couple
of years ago, nice course, not much in the way of hills if I recall
correctly, but always -windy-. The start/finish was opposite a school
in the town shed I think.

[flyingdutch]

Bleve Wrote:
> Jono L wrote:
> > Hey Carl have you raced at Baliang before? Any tips on the course?
> So
> > far i haven't found anyone who's raced there.
>
> I might have, if that's the one out the back of Lara? It was a couple
> of years ago, nice course, not much in the way of hills if I recall
> correctly, but always -windy-. The start/finish was opposite a school
> in the town shed I think.

http://www.hawthorncycling.org/documents/balliang_RR.pdf


--
flyingdutch

[warrwych]

Bleve Wrote:
>
>
> It's usual to ride down a grade in opens compared to regional races.
> That said, there's nothing worse than riding a grade (fairly) when
> some
> arsehole from a higher grade drops in to clean up. We desperatly need
> a fair and *enforced* grading scheme in Australian road racing. The
> yanks and the poms can do it, so can we ....
>
>
>
> [color=blue]
>
> True - I rode my first C grade road race at Warragul on Saturday. Was
> doing just fine until my bl@@dy wireless sensor fell off my rear stay.
> (No way was I going to let $300 worth of potential replacement sit on
> the road, so I stopped and collected it. The cherubs in the pack did
> not sit up and wait for me, altho They did just that when the other
> woman in the pack overshot a corner later on grrrrrrrrrr :mad: so I
> ended up time trialling into last place).
>
> Point of the story is that C Grade at regional is not equivalent to C
> grade metro or opens.
>
>
> The issue of riders dropping down a grade, for whatever reason (most of
> the excuses I have heard are pretty sad) is a difficult one and if
> someone has a workable solution, let me know! We are constantly trying
> to grapple with it locally.


--
warrwych

[Andres]

> I might do this weeks race at Balliang in C. Last year I got dropped
> from the A+B+C+D group (not that many riders turned up) and I (i)
got
> lost, and (ii) got attacked by a magpie, - pulled out after one
lap.
> Hopefully will do better this time.

There are no long or steep hills, mostly flat to rolling hills. Quiet
roads except for Geel-Bacchus Marsh Rd which carries some traffic.
Road surface not the best on the quiet roads.

-Andres

[TimC]

On 2006-03-27, warrwych (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Bleve Wrote:
>> That's how it works in the UK and the US, and it seems to work very
>> well. Here, it's a vry bad joke. I can roll up at some other combine
>> where the organisers don't know me, tell some story and ride any grade
>> I want to.
>
> That's exactly what they do for dressage. For open events it will work,
> but what about regional/local races? Unless you carry a card around with
> you, which indicates your current points (ie at each race, placings and
> points signed off on a performance card by a Race Official/Club
> Official) how are the local club organisers to know how many points (ie
> what grade) you are officially meant to be? The card point system also
> works for dressage, and your horse's performance card is submitted when
> you register for your classes for the day, not being returned until the
> competition is over, points allocated and signed off on your card if
> you place.

What should happen when you attend a crit on a flat course when you
are a climber, and vice versa?

--
TimC
These days I'd use MOSFETs. 1kV 6A (use at 200VDC) ones are about $10 US.
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfpg50.pdf
Should do a hell of a job on twisted pair Ethernet equipment. - Brian in ASR

[warrwych]

TimC Wrote:
> On 2006-03-27, warrwych (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > Bleve Wrote:
> >> That's how it works in the UK and the US, and it seems to work very
> >> well. Here, it's a vry bad joke. I can roll up at some other
> combine
> >> where the organisers don't know me, tell some story and ride any
> grade
> >> I want to.
> >
> > That's exactly what they do for dressage. For open events it will
> work,
> > but what about regional/local races? Unless you carry a card around
> with
> > you, which indicates your current points (ie at each race, placings
> and
> > points signed off on a performance card by a Race Official/Club
> > Official) how are the local club organisers to know how many points
> (ie
> > what grade) you are officially meant to be? The card point system
> also
> > works for dressage, and your horse's performance card is submitted
> when
> > you register for your classes for the day, not being returned until
> the
> > competition is over, points allocated and signed off on your card if
> > you place.
>
> What should happen when you attend a crit on a flat course when you
> are a climber, and vice versa?
>
> --
> TimC
> These days I'd use MOSFETs. 1kV 6A (use at 200VDC) ones are about $10
> US.
> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfpg50.pdf
> Should do a hell of a job on twisted pair Ethernet equipment. - Brian
> in ASR

Ultimately the race type/circuit is the rider's choice so their bad
luck if they decide to race on a circuit that doesn't suit them. They
are the ones who enter themselves.


--
warrwych

[gplama]

TimC Wrote:
>
> What should happen when you attend a crit on a flat course when you
> are a climber, and vice versa?
>

IMO - If you are defining yourself a 'climber' or a 'sprinter' then you
should be of a certain performance level that you can at least hang onto
the bunch of the same grading on almost any course.... if not, then I'd
suggest a more rounded training regime... again, IMO.

I'm floored at the gradings dished out for Coleraine...


--
gplama

[flyingdutch]

gplama Wrote:
> IMO - If you are defining yourself a 'climber' or a 'sprinter' then you
> should be of a certain performance level that you can at least hang
> onto the bunch of the same grading on almost any course.... if not,
> then I'd suggest a more rounded training regime... again, IMO.
>
> I'm floored at the gradings dished out for Coleraine...

especially for someone who's gonna take 40+min to get around the boulie
:D


--
flyingdutch

[TimC]

On 2006-03-28, flyingdutch (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> gplama Wrote:
>> IMO - If you are defining yourself a 'climber' or a 'sprinter' then you
>> should be of a certain performance level that you can at least hang
>> onto the bunch of the same grading on almost any course.... if not,
>> then I'd suggest a more rounded training regime... again, IMO.
>>
>> I'm floored at the gradings dished out for Coleraine...
>
> especially for someone who's gonna take 40+min to get around the boulie
>:D

It really was you who interfered with the timing, wasn't it?

You can tell a.b your secrets -- we won't let it out :)

--
TimC
Calm down, it's *only* ones and zeroes.

[Bleve]

gplama wrote:
> TimC Wrote:
> >
> > What should happen when you attend a crit on a flat course when you
> > are a climber, and vice versa?
> >
>
> IMO - If you are defining yourself a 'climber' or a 'sprinter' then you
> should be of a certain performance level that you can at least hang onto
> the bunch of the same grading on almost any course.... if not, then I'd
> suggest a more rounded training regime... again, IMO.
>
> I'm floored at the gradings dished out for Coleraine...

Call CSV, and POLITELY explain why you think your grade is in error.
They don't know you, so they've guessed.

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> > It's dead simple to do. Everyone starts in D grade. Each win or
> > place
> > gets you points in that grade, get X points, go up a grade. Points
> > get recorded on a central database (CA can do this if they have the
> > will, the technology is simple, especially these days with the 'net).
> > You can have a gradual points decaying system to allow riders to come
> > back down grades if they have had a significant time out of the sport.
> >
> > That's how it works in the UK and the US, and it seems to work very
> > well. Here, it's a vry bad joke. I can roll up at some other combine
> > where the organisers don't know me, tell some story and ride any grade
> > I want to.
>
> That's exactly what they do for dressage. For open events it will work,
> but what about regional/local races? Unless you carry a card around with
> you, which indicates your current points (ie at each race, placings and
> points signed off on a performance card by a Race Official/Club
> Official) how are the local club organisers to know how many points (ie
> what grade) you are officially meant to be? The card point system also
> works for dressage, and your horse's performance card is submitted when
> you register for your classes for the day, not being returned until the
> competition is over, points allocated and signed off on your card if
> you place.

You just answered your own question :)

When you go up or down a grade, yuo get issued with a new card. cards
are very cheap these days. Certainly less than $2 per entry for every
crit you ride :)


>
>
> --
> warrwych

[Bleve]

TimC wrote:

> What should happen when you attend a crit on a flat course when you
> are a climber, and vice versa?

You're unlikely to win it. Eg: I ride B grade regional. I ride my
grade in hilly and flat races. In hilly races I'm lucky to finish with
the straglers. In flat races I have a chance to win. That's how it is
and how it should be. Swapping grades based on the nature of the
course is bull**** and should not be allowed.

[Hitchy]

Jono L Wrote:
> Hey Carl have you raced at Baliang before? Any tips on the course? So
> far i haven't found anyone who's raced there.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jono

G'day all,

Don't wanna be the bearer of bad tidings, but Balliang on Saturday is
more likely to be the course that turns right at Anakie junction &
heads to the top of the Brisbane Ranges....its a 2km climb at about 6%
I'd guess....so all those who thought Carsruhe West was hard finish
ain't gunna enjoy this one at all. The 1st 15km are all uphill & then
it gets undulating till the turnaround (it's an out & back course), the
good news is that the last 15 km are downhill!.

I'm hoping the wind & the heat are absent from Coleraine this
year....it was extreme last year

cheers,
Hitchy


--
Hitchy

[Jono L]

Hitchy Wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> Don't wanna be the bearer of bad tidings, but Balliang on Saturday is
> more likely to be the course that turns right at Anakie junction &
> heads to the top of the Brisbane Ranges....its a 2km climb at about 6%
> I'd guess....so all those who thought Carsruhe West was hard finish
> ain't gunna enjoy this one at all. The 1st 15km are all uphill & then
> it gets undulating till the turnaround (it's an out & back course), the
> good news is that the last 15 km are downhill!.
>
> I'm hoping the wind & the heat are absent from Coleraine this
> year....it was extreme last year
>
> cheers,
> Hitchy
Did you say climb???:D :D :D Sweet.

Hey lama, don't hesitate to expand on your thoughts on the coleraine
gradings??? Who's sandbagging?


--
Jono L

[warrwych]

Bleve Wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
> >
> >
> > That's exactly what they do for dressage. For open events it will
> work,
> > but what about regional/local races? Unless you carry a card around
> with
> > you, which indicates your current points (ie at each race, placings
> and
> > points signed off on a performance card by a Race Official/Club
> > Official) how are the local club organisers to know how many points
> (ie
> > what grade) you are officially meant to be? The card point system
> also
> > works for dressage, and your horse's performance card is submitted
> when
> > you register for your classes for the day, not being returned until
> the
> > competition is over, points allocated and signed off on your card if
> > you place.
>
> You just answered your own question :)
>
> When you go up or down a grade, yuo get issued with a new card. cards
> are very cheap these days. Certainly less than $2 per entry for every
> crit you ride :)
>
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > warrwych

Yeah I did answer my own question, didn't I?? hehehe :p The reissuing
of cards based on grade movement should be constrained by disallowing
grade changes every race! Otherwise you could pay an small additional
premium each race just to go in a grade that suits you on the day. The
points allocation system has to be retained with grade movement ie the
grade movement is "fixed" until you point out of it, unless you are
coming dead last each time. (Allow negative points for each last
place?? so if a rider ends up with a negative score of -x they go down
a grade????).

It wouldn't work for aboc riders - their maths is questionable at the
best of times (what lap is this???) :D :D


--
warrwych

[DaveB]

warrwych wrote:
> grade movement is "fixed" until you point out of it, unless you are
> coming dead last each time. (Allow negative points for each last
> place?? so if a rider ends up with a negative score of -x they go down
> a grade????).
>

I like the sound of that, would give me something to aim for.

DaveB

[warrwych]

DaveB Wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
> > grade movement is "fixed" until you point out of it, unless you are
> > coming dead last each time. (Allow negative points for each last
> > place?? so if a rider ends up with a negative score of -x they go
> down
> > a grade????).
> >
>
> I like the sound of that, would give me something to aim for.
>
> DaveB

we can all start in A grade and work our way down :D


--
warrwych