Motorbikes and "bike lanes" or I took stupid pills when?

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:20:36 +1000
Ricardo > wrote:
>
> Perhaps I am getting cross for no good reason (I don't think so, but then I
> am cross) but why is it that motorbike riders feel it is in their right to
> use the bike lane?

Bikes is bikes mostly.

If there's a pushbike in the cycle lane on the city west then I give
them right of way and tuck in behind until I can safely pass. If
there isn't one, then there's no problem in using it I can see.

Zebee

[Ricardo]

On my rides in / out of the city I take Nepean Highway from Glen Eira Rd.
Some days I have the pleasure of sharing the "bike lane" with all kinds of
people, some with 2 wheels others with 4.

Take today for instance when I was happily treddaling away when I felt the
breath of some a$$ on a motorbike behind me - I did politely suggest he get
out of the lane and was told to ****-off and mind my own business... at
which point I became a very slow and unpredictable rider - too hard to pass
on a motorbike at least.

Perhaps I am getting cross for no good reason (I don't think so, but then I
am cross) but why is it that motorbike riders feel it is in their right to
use the bike lane?

Rich

[Vincent Patrick]

Ricardo wrote:

> On my rides in / out of the city I take Nepean Highway from Glen Eira Rd.
> Some days I have the pleasure of sharing the "bike lane" with all kinds of
> people, some with 2 wheels others with 4.
>
> Take today for instance when I was happily treddaling away when I felt the
> breath of some a$$ on a motorbike behind me - I did politely suggest he
> get out of the lane and was told to ****-off and mind my own business...
> at which point I became a very slow and unpredictable rider - too hard to
> pass on a motorbike at least.
>
> Perhaps I am getting cross for no good reason (I don't think so, but then
> I am cross) but why is it that motorbike riders feel it is in their right
> to use the bike lane?
>
> Rich


Some of the worst cases on my usual route seem to be mopeds. My guess is
that they don't really want to mix it with the big bad cars. I don't mind
them using the lane when its free, but do object to the buggers whizzing
past me at car speeds, leaving only a 30 cm gap.

Vince

[a5hi5m]

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:20:36 +1000
> Ricardo > wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps I am getting cross for no good reason (I don't think so, but
> then I
> > am cross) but why is it that motorbike riders feel it is in their
> right to
> > use the bike lane?
>
> Bikes is bikes mostly.
>
> If there's a pushbike in the cycle lane on the city west then I give
> them right of way and tuck in behind until I can safely pass. If
> there isn't one, then there's no problem in using it I can see.
>
> Zebee
I thought I had read that the bike lanes excluded motorbikes (at least
in Vic), except for the 50m turning part, as with cars. But I could
have read it wrong, hallucinated, dreamed it etcetc

Ash


--
a5hi5m

[Aeek]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:34:42 +1100, a5hi5m
> wrote:

>
>Zebee Johnstone Wrote:

>> Bikes is bikes mostly.
>>
>> If there's a pushbike in the cycle lane on the city west then I give
>> them right of way and tuck in behind until I can safely pass. If
>> there isn't one, then there's no problem in using it I can see.
>>
>> Zebee
>I thought I had read that the bike lanes excluded motorbikes (at least
>in Vic), except for the 50m turning part, as with cars. But I could
>have read it wrong, hallucinated, dreamed it etcetc
>
>Ash

Bikes is bikes. Who am I to complain about a bit of grey riding?
The one who bothered me was slowly/sensibly passing the cars.
The trouble was I was fanging downhill, wondering how to alert them
that they were about to be passed by a bicycle.
Fortunately, they merged back into the traffic before the crunch.

Wrongway cyclist in the bike lanes bother me more.

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:56:42 +1100
Aeek > wrote:
> Bikes is bikes. Who am I to complain about a bit of grey riding?
> The one who bothered me was slowly/sensibly passing the cars.
> The trouble was I was fanging downhill, wondering how to alert them
> that they were about to be passed by a bicycle.

That's a problem :)

Probably a yell of "behind you!" will work[1] or maybe "gangway!"

> Wrongway cyclist in the bike lanes bother me more.

Never met that.

But then bike lanes are not that common in Sydney.

Zebee

[1] unless they are a Pommy, who are trained from a young age to react
oddly to such things.

[JoeD]

Motorbikes are excluded from using bike lanes. I have seen police often
waiting on Alexandra Pde for Motorbikes coming off the Eastern Freeway in
peak hour and booking them for using the bike lane.

"a5hi5m" > wrote in message
...
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:20:36 +1000
>> Ricardo > wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps I am getting cross for no good reason (I don't think so, but
>> then I
>> > am cross) but why is it that motorbike riders feel it is in their
>> right to
>> > use the bike lane?
>>
>> Bikes is bikes mostly.
>>
>> If there's a pushbike in the cycle lane on the city west then I give
>> them right of way and tuck in behind until I can safely pass. If
>> there isn't one, then there's no problem in using it I can see.
>>
>> Zebee
> I thought I had read that the bike lanes excluded motorbikes (at least
> in Vic), except for the 50m turning part, as with cars. But I could
> have read it wrong, hallucinated, dreamed it etcetc
>
> Ash
>
>
> --
> a5hi5m
>

[flyingdutch]

JoeD Wrote:
> Motorbikes are excluded from using bike lanes. I have seen police often
> waiting on Alexandra Pde for Motorbikes coming off the Eastern Freeway
> in
> peak hour and booking them for using the bike lane.
>
>


Happens in town too. look for Mr plod sitting on a chair near town
hall, westbound Collins St

Personally i think mbike should be able to use em ,as long as pushies
have priority. the congestion alleviated outweighs us-them rhubarb


--
flyingdutch

[JoeD]

I agree. I can't see why mbikes shouldn't be able to use them when roads are
choked with these metal human containers. But should be travelling at a
similar speed to bikes and not 60kph just because they can.


"flyingdutch" > wrote in
message ...
>
> JoeD Wrote:
>> Motorbikes are excluded from using bike lanes. I have seen police often
>> waiting on Alexandra Pde for Motorbikes coming off the Eastern Freeway
>> in
>> peak hour and booking them for using the bike lane.
>>
>>
>
>
> Happens in town too. look for Mr plod sitting on a chair near town
> hall, westbound Collins St
>
> Personally i think mbike should be able to use em ,as long as pushies
> have priority. the congestion alleviated outweighs us-them rhubarb
>
>
> --
> flyingdutch
>

[DaveB]

JoeD wrote:
> I agree. I can't see why mbikes shouldn't be able to use them when roads are
> choked with these metal human containers. But should be travelling at a
> similar speed to bikes and not 60kph just because they can.
>

No I disagree. I used to ride motorbike in bicycle lanes but stopped
because the bike lanes are just not wide enough for larger mbikes (like
mine) to fit comfortably past a cyclist. Hell, the way some cyclists
ride, it's enough of a challenge passing them on a bicycle (not that I
get to pass too many). The other issue is that lane splitting is best
when you can get to the front of the lane at the lights and accelerate
away. But if you go up a bicycle lane you are either stuck behind the
cyclists, in the middle of them, or have to push your way through, none
of which are very good options.

As for scooters, well they're just dangerous no matter what lane they're
in (dons protective gear and runs away).

DaveB

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:35:24 +1100
DaveB > wrote:
>
> No I disagree. I used to ride motorbike in bicycle lanes but stopped
> because the bike lanes are just not wide enough for larger mbikes (like
> mine) to fit comfortably past a cyclist. Hell, the way some cyclists

So why pass the cyclist? If it's a choice between sit behind a car
doing nil miles an hour, and a cyclist doing walking pace, you will
still get there faster behind the cyclist.

I figure it is their lane, so I wait till I can safely pass. As I
should with any other slower vehicle. If there's not room to pass,
then either I move lanes or I wait. I wouldn't stop using them if
they were getting me where I was going faster than otherwise, just
because sometimes I can't pass a pushie immediately.

Zebee

[Marx SS]

I think that all motorcyclists utilize alittle bit of fuzzy science when
piloting through traffic, trying to capitalise on their relatively small
size [ width ] . This would include lane splitting, using cycle lanes &
painted groundlevel ‘traffic islands’.
I suppose they’re capitalising on the little advantages they have
against other traffic, much like cyclists.

Whether it’s right or wrong only Mr Plod can say.


--
Marx SS

[alex]

flyingdutch wrote:

> Happens in town too. look for Mr plod sitting on a chair near town
> hall, westbound Collins St
>
> Personally i think mbike should be able to use em ,as long as pushies
> have priority. the congestion alleviated outweighs us-them rhubarb
>

what rubbish, might as well just get rid of the cycling lane

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:19:56 +1100
LotteBum > wrote:
>
> DaveB Wrote:
>> As for scooters, well they're just dangerous no matter what lane
>> they're in (dons protective gear and runs away).
> The biggest load of sh!t I've read all day.
>
> I ride a scooter and my life is put in danger by motorcyclists pulling
> dangerous manouvres almost every single day. Or their own, the the
> f*cktard who, against my advice, tried to get in between a bus and a
> parked Prado and ended up getting his mirror clipped by said bus and a
> quick "NEXT TIME LISTEN TO ME!" from me as I passed him behind the bus.

Powered two wheelers are all the same, scooter or no.

You aren't stereotyping people based on what transport they choose are
you?

Zebee
- whose stable currently includes 4 motorcycles, a scooter, and a
recumbent - something for everyone to hate!

[LotteBum]

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
> You aren't stereotyping people based on what transport they choose are
> you?
Read it again. Did I imply that all motorcyclists are f*cktards? No I
did not. It just seemed like a strange comment seeing as I rarely see
people on scooters doing dangerous sh!t compared with what those on
motorcycles do so regularly. Personally, I don't give a flying f*ck
what anyone does, as long as it doesn't put anyone else's life in
danger. Unfortunately, too often it does.

Lotte


--
LotteBum

[Theo Bekkers]

LotteBum wrote:
> DaveB Wrote:

>> As for scooters, well they're just dangerous no matter what lane
>> they're in (dons protective gear and runs away).

> The biggest load of sh!t I've read all day.

The day's not over yet. :-)

> I ride a scooter and my life is put in danger by motorcyclists pulling
> dangerous manouvres almost every single day.

I ride a scooter locally where we have no bike lanes. I never ride my
motorcycle in a bike lane.

Amazingly I hardly ever feel endangered by other motorists whether I'm on my
treadly, my scooter, my motorcycle, my ute, or the wife's AWD RAV4 (there
must be something for everyone to hate in that lot). On that odd occasion my
first question is "What did _I_ do wrong to be caught out like this."

Theo

[Theo Bekkers]

LotteBum wrote:

> so it must just be 10 - 20% of
> Brisbanites who are f*cktards. wouldn't surprise me one little bit.

No comment :-)

> I think it's fair to say that I regularly see cyclists do the wrong
> thing as well as motorcyclists and drivers. As much as they probably
> do break laws, I rarely see scooterists doing the wrong thing...
> probably has a lot to do with power though!

Well, mine can't do more than 60 downhill.

http://www.vmoto.com/au/milan/

There's a picture of you on their home page

http://www.vmoto.com/au/

Theo

[Marx SS]

Oh dear, Theo. :o


--
Marx SS

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:59:24 +1100
LotteBum > wrote:
> Read it again. Did I imply that all motorcyclists are f*cktards? No I
> did not. It just seemed like a strange comment seeing as I rarely see
> people on scooters doing dangerous sh!t compared with what those on
> motorcycles do so regularly. Personally, I don't give a flying f*ck

On my daily commute I see as many scooters as motorcycles splitting
traffic that's doing over 20kmh. And doing under that too, but I see
no difference in numbers when the speeds get higher than most people
are willing to split.

I see more scooter riders than motorcycle riders without gloves too.

Zebee

[Karen Gallagher]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
> LotteBum wrote:
>
>> so it must just be 10 - 20% of
>> Brisbanites who are f*cktards. wouldn't surprise me one little bit.
>
> No comment :-)
>
>> I think it's fair to say that I regularly see cyclists do the wrong
>> thing as well as motorcyclists and drivers. As much as they probably
>> do break laws, I rarely see scooterists doing the wrong thing...
>> probably has a lot to do with power though!
>
> Well, mine can't do more than 60 downhill.
>
> http://www.vmoto.com/au/milan/
>
> There's a picture of you on their home page
>
> http://www.vmoto.com/au/
>
> Theo

I must confess that daily I ride 100 metres up a road on the wrong side.
Saves me a 5 km detour, and there's a nice wide hard shoulder for me to ride
on, some 3 m wide, with a nice ditch I can take to if needs be. Illegal,
yes, practical, definitely.

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

[LotteBum]

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
> On my daily commute I see as many scooters as motorcycles splitting
> traffic that's doing over 20kmh. And doing under that too, but I see no
> difference in numbers when the speeds get higher than most people are
> willing to split.
The only time I lanesplit is when traffic is literally stationary and
there is plenty of room for me to do so. I'd hate to clip someone's
mirror... To give you an example, like I said previously, I use the
bike lane (obviously giving plenty of respect to cyclists using the
lane), but once I hit the bridge (which is fairly narrow), I sit with
the cars and watch motorcyclists attempt to lane split. Sometimes it
takes two minutes, sometimes 7 to get across the bridge.. but I'm not
about to risk lane splitting on it.

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
> I see more scooter riders than motorcycle riders without gloves too.
I don't wear gloves. I wore my O'Neal Impact gloves on really cold
days last winter, however I get the feeling I looked like a total
scooter-cross tool, so I plan to coax Paulie into buying me a nice set
of leather gloves from Country Road for this winter (I hope he's
reading this - saves asking for them!). I never wear gloves on my
mountain bike because I'm just... well, TUFF. When I wear gloves on my
road bike in winter, it's more about the snot rag on the side than the
protection factor. Oh, and my hands get dry from the cold.

I have a feeling scooters aren't as popular (yet) in Brisbane as they
are in other cities perhaps?

Lotte


--
LotteBum

[LotteBum]

Theo Bekkers Wrote:
> No comment :-)
Just half an hour ago I was doing a report which required a blurb about
tourism in Brisbane. I was tempted to write "Located approximately 980
kilometres North of Sydney, 1265 kilometres south of Cairns, Brisbane
is often referred to as the arse end of the world". I restrained
myself.

> Well, mine can't do more than 60 downhill.
Ah, that's slack Theo! I've had mine off the clock (which goes up to
80km/h) down hill with me (in aero position) and my handbag on it.
Very scary indeed.

> There's a picture of you on their home page
Oh goodness! She looks just like me!

Lotte


--
LotteBum

[TimC]

On 2006-03-29, LotteBum (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>> On my daily commute I see as many scooters as motorcycles splitting
>> traffic that's doing over 20kmh. And doing under that too, but I see no
>> difference in numbers when the speeds get higher than most people are
>> willing to split.
> The only time I lanesplit is when traffic is literally stationary and
> there is plenty of room for me to do so. I'd hate to clip someone's
> mirror... To give you an example, like I said previously, I use the
> bike lane (obviously giving plenty of respect to cyclists using the
> lane), but once I hit the bridge (which is fairly narrow)

You hit the bridge everyday? Despite it being narrow? You'd think
you'd learn! How can the bike keep on coping with all those impacts?

:P

--
TimC
SIGTHTBABW: a signal sent from Unix to its programmers at random
intervals to make them remember that There Has To Be A Better Way.

[Theo Bekkers]

Marx SS wrote:
> Oh dear, Theo. :o

Hehe, my son bought it when we were involved in making their (rather cute)
website. Note the names on the shops on the home page, all named after BAM
Creative and Bekkers staff members. (Bam is part of Bekkers).

The novelty wore off rather quickly for him and he left it out in his
driveway from where it got stolen. It was found in an overgrown vacant block
less than 200 metres from his house three months later. I took it home and
made it well again. He then parked it back in his driveway, this time with a
chain and padlock on it. His two dogs literally ate bits off it, I'm still
waiting on a new seat for it to come into stock, so when he moved house I
rescued/confiscated it and, after fixing it (except for the seat) I now use
it to go and get the papers on Sunday and use it locally for trips around
the estate.

It was new in September 2004 and has now done 550 kms including about 250 of
mine. Poor thing.

Theo

[Theo Bekkers]

LotteBum wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:

>> I see more scooter riders than motorcycle riders without gloves too.

> I don't wear gloves. I wore my O'Neal Impact gloves on really cold
> days last winter,

I believe there is a definite probability of a serious difference between
your definition of cold and Zebee's and my definition of cold. Cold is when
you have to wipe the ice off the speedo to know how fast you're going. I
suspect you don't do that in QLD. :-)

> I have a feeling scooters aren't as popular (yet) in Brisbane as they
> are in other cities perhaps?

Do you have special scooter laws in Qld? E.g., in WA, scooters of less than
50cc, typically 49.9cc, which have a max design speed of 60 km/h, such as my
Milan, are officially called mopeds and can be ridden on any type of
licence. So you can hop on one if you have a car licence, no motorcycle
licence or experience required. Or you can get a licence for only a moped at
age 16. Makes them popular with schoolkids. And they only cost about $2,000
on-road, rego is cheap. Rego and TPI in WA is $64 per annum.

Theo

[Theo Bekkers]

LotteBum wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:

>> Well, mine can't do more than 60 downhill.

> Ah, that's slack Theo! I've had mine off the clock (which goes up to
> 80km/h) down hill with me (in aero position) and my handbag on it.

My speedo goes into the red at 45 and only goes to 60. See the reason why in
my other post about mopeds.

Theo

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:11:09 +1100
LotteBum > wrote:
> I don't wear gloves. I wore my O'Neal Impact gloves on really cold
> days last winter, however I get the feeling I looked like a total
> scooter-cross tool, so I plan to coax Paulie into buying me a nice set

If I was you, I'd seriously consider some mesh or perforated leather
gloves as long as they have good protection on the palm and thumb.

This is because most motorcycle crashes that happen on bad surfaces or
from being knocked off tend to result in a 3 point landing - 2 palms
and a knee. The velocity tends to be higher than on a pushbike, and
hands are horrible things to heal. Gloves can make a hell of a lot of
difference especially if you earn your living with your hands such as
computer work or writing or cash handling.

I have a set of nice black mesh gloves with good palm and thumb protection
and no space ace colouring or writing or pseudo carbon fibre knuckle
protectors. Spider make excellent perforated leather gloves which are
comfortable and cool and not lairish, and even the unlined ones haven't
sweated black all over my hands.

Often motorcycle wreckers have good cheap summer gloves, especially if
you have smallish hands compared to your average bikie, as they get the
remaindered stock.

Horseriding gloves with the leather padded palms and the mesh backs
aren't too bad. Better to have something that covers the wristbones
though, because gravel rash on those is no fun.

Zebee

[steve46au]

<QUOTE>As for scooters, well they're just dangerous no matter what lane
they're
in (dons protective gear and runs away).<QUOTE>

Was going to reply to this obvious troll, but Lottebum bit much better
than I would have.

And yes I do ride my scooter in bike lanes, as long as there are no
bicycles there.


--
steve46au

[The P]

"LotteBum" > wrote in message
...
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>> On my daily commute I see as many scooters as motorcycles splitting
>> traffic that's doing over 20kmh. And doing under that too, but I see no
>> difference in numbers when the speeds get higher than most people are
>> willing to split.
<SNIP>
I ride a bicycle, motorbike and operate a cage (not all at the one time).
Cages in bike lanes **** me, esp the ones who like about a 3rd of their car
in it. Motorbikes also annoy me in bike lanes if they hold me up.

One reason I ride my bicycle is as its faster than a car or motorbike along
certain routes. Being held up by any motorised vehicle in a bike lane is
quite annoying.

Though what really bugs me is why people feel the need to rev the crap out
of their car's when passing a cyclist. Usually I catch up with them at
lights. Revving is super cool, so much so that I have to ride past the
offered and loudly say "broom broom broom" LOL.

Rant rant rant

[Gemma Kernich]

"Zebee Johnstone" > wrote in message
.. .
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:59:24 +1100
> LotteBum > wrote:
> > Read it again. Did I imply that all motorcyclists are f*cktards? No I
> > did not. It just seemed like a strange comment seeing as I rarely see
> > people on scooters doing dangerous sh!t compared with what those on
> > motorcycles do so regularly. Personally, I don't give a flying f*ck
>
> On my daily commute I see as many scooters as motorcycles splitting
> traffic that's doing over 20kmh. And doing under that too, but I see
> no difference in numbers when the speeds get higher than most people
> are willing to split.
>
> I see more scooter riders than motorcycle riders without gloves too.
>
Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
boots. And full-face helmets. :-)
Scootering just isn't 'cool' with safety gear I suspect.

Gemm<---- can't see without a full-face helmet!

[Bleve]

hemyd wrote:

> I know some cyclists have an affinity to motor bikes, but unfortunately
> stunts like that tend to detract form any such sympathy.

All generalisations are wrong, Henry.

[warrwych]

Paulie-AU Wrote:
> In qld a motorbike or scooter rego costs 126.45 (excluding CTP)
> 6 cylinder rego costs 362.60 (excluding CTP)
> 8 cylinder rego costs 483.80 (excluding CTP)
>
> I am not sure of the number of cylinders of a Landbruiser but those
> number arn't alot more considering the vehicle size and presence on the
> road. :confused:

Depends which model you buy. When is a truck not a truck? When its a
whopping "domestic" 4wd!

So you want rego by weight & dimensions?????????

Does that mean big guys on fatboy motorbikes should pay more rego than
skinny guys on skinny bikes?


--
warrwych

[LotteBum]

warrwych Wrote:
> Landcruiser rego DOES cost a lot more ;)They should be paying more than three times as much.


--
LotteBum

[LotteBum]

Gemma Kernich Wrote:
> Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
> boots. And full-face helmets. :-) Scootering just isn't 'cool' with
> safety gear I suspect.
I guess it's about convenience. When I first got my scooter I wore
jeans and a denim jacket when riding it to work. Not these days. I
ride the thing in skirts and high heels...

To me it's not about cool - I'm the last person to care what others
think of the way I look. It's more about convenience. It takes me
between 15 and 20 minutes to scoot to work, as opposed to 30 - 40 in
the car. If I had to bring a change of clothes, it would be just as
quick to drive to work.

I know I should be more responsible, but the way I look at it is that
my scoot to work goes mostly against traffic and the fastest zone I hit
is 70km/h, and there aren't many cars on this section of road. After
this, I basically ride to work along Brisbane's 'River Ride' which is
frequented by cyclists because it is quite safe (and only 50/60 zones).


Lotte


--
LotteBum

[Paulie-AU]

Gemma Kernich Wrote:
> Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
> boots. And full-face helmets. :-)
> Scootering just isn't 'cool' with safety gear I suspect.
>
> Gemm<---- can't see without a full-face helmet!
I can fully appreciate the benefits of safety clothing when it comes to
riding on the road, however given the power of a scooter and the speeds
it is capable of (on the flat without a downhill and speed tuck) I
really cant see the difference between riding a scooter without safety
gear and a road bicycle in lycra and a little foam thing on my head.
In fact my roadie can and does hit higher speeds than the scooter. (for
shorter times adimittedly)

Safety gear on a motorbike capable of 80 - 100+ speeds effortlessly is
another story.

warrwych wrote
>So you want rego by weight & dimensions?????????

Mabye scooters could be cheaper still. WA's $64 sounds pretty good to
me.

Rego does go by weight and dimensions, with 4tonne apparently the
threshold from car to truck. That is 40 times the weight of our
scooter.

>Does that mean big guys on fatboy motorbikes should pay more rego than
skinny guys on skinny bikes?

Mabye there should be a difference between scooters/250cc commuter
motos and big cruisers and sportsbikes as per my scooter thoughts
above.

There should be a penalty if the big guy is hanging their gut out
though :D


--
Paulie-AU

[warrwych]

LotteBum Wrote:
> Yes, but only because they look disgusting.
>
> Teehee!
>
> Lotte

with their feet up in the air like they are about to undergo some
gyneaocological procedure.. :D :D :D


--
warrwych

[warrwych]

Paulie-AU Wrote:
> I
>
> warrwych wrote
> >So you want rego by weight & dimensions?????????
>
> Mabye scooters could be cheaper still. WA's $64 sounds pretty good to
> me.
>
> Rego does go by weight and dimensions, with 4tonne apparently the
> threshold from car to truck. That is 40 times the weight of our
> scooter.
>
> >Does that mean big guys on fatboy motorbikes should pay more rego than
> skinny guys on skinny bikes?
>
> Mabye there should be a difference between scooters/250cc commuter
> motos and big cruisers and sportsbikes as per my scooter thoughts
> above.
>
> There should be a penalty if the big guy is hanging their gut out
> though :D

pretty pink :D . Does lowering the rego on scooters then "lower"
people's perception of them ie "not a real vehicle"? and therefore
lower consideration for them on the road? It's a logic used against
bicycles.....

Rego by weight - i thought it was based on engine size?? But I am not
clued up on stuff like that, so I am fairly ignorant there. So you are
saying rego for larger vehicles should be 40 times more than your
scooter?? hehehe :eek:


--
warrwych

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:32:07 +1030
Gemma Kernich > wrote:
>>
> Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
> boots. And full-face helmets. :-)

I dont' think that fullface helmets or "sturdy trousers" are that
important.

In the only study available of Australian injuries, there were not
enough facial injuries in a study of several hundred crashes to be
statistically significant.

As for "sturdy trousers", jeans are as useless as shorts when it comes
to more than really really minor as in "dettol just like when you were
a kid" gravel rash.

Gloves however are one of the most commonly damaged bits of gear in
crashes, are cheap to get, easy to wear, and prevent a lot of damage
without being uncomfortable or a nuisance at the other end.

Boots are also wise, but not as required. Most city crashes seem to
be multi-vehicle, and there's bugger all you can wear to protect you
from the common injuries of broken legs and internal injuries got from
being hit by a big metal thing.

Mind you, good boots can help when your scooter hits a ridge as you
are cornering spiritedly and you kick the thing up as it's busily
lowsiding.

I'm not sure my foot would have been anywhere near has happy if I was
wearing dress shoes, although a really butch pair of sneakers would
probably have been OK.

Zebee

[Theo Bekkers]

Paulie-AU wrote:
> warrwych wrote

>> So you want rego by weight & dimensions?????????

> Rego does go by weight and dimensions, with 4tonne apparently the
> threshold from car to truck. That is 40 times the weight of our
> scooter.

>> Does that mean big guys on fatboy motorbikes should pay more rego
>> than skinny guys on skinny bikes?

> Mabye there should be a difference between scooters/250cc commuter
> motos and big cruisers and sportsbikes as per my scooter thoughts
> above.

That's the way things are in WA. Scooters are really cheap because the TPI
is cheap. All passenger vehicles in WA pay rego by weight. Currently at
$14.24 per 100 kg or part thereof. To make the motorcycles easier a bike
under 250 is deemed to be 100-200 kg ans bikes over 250cc are deemed to be
200-300 kg.

A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus TPI of
$292.20 and other standard fees.

Sounds like a fair thing to me.

Theo

[Bleve]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:32:07 +1030
> Gemma Kernich > wrote:
> >>
> > Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
> > boots. And full-face helmets. :-)
>
> I dont' think that fullface helmets or "sturdy trousers" are that
> important.
>
> In the only study available of Australian injuries, there were not
> enough facial injuries in a study of several hundred crashes to be
> statistically significant.
>
> As for "sturdy trousers", jeans are as useless as shorts when it comes
> to more than really really minor as in "dettol just like when you were
> a kid" gravel rash.

Draggin jeans, on the other hand, are bloody ace. I "tested" them
once, and they work. No skin off despite a reasonable slide across the
Eastern Freeway (coming off Hoddle St , hit oil or something on the
270 degree onramp .. poo!). Jeans are useless, but kevlar reinforced
jeans are not!

[sinus]

Bleve Wrote:
>
>
> All generalisations are wrong, Henry.
Should that be "All generalisations are wrong, including this one"
:rolleyes:


--
sinus

[TimC]

On 2006-03-30, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Paulie-AU wrote:
>> Mabye there should be a difference between scooters/250cc commuter
>> motos and big cruisers and sportsbikes as per my scooter thoughts
>> above.
>
> That's the way things are in WA. Scooters are really cheap because the TPI
> is cheap. All passenger vehicles in WA pay rego by weight. Currently at
> $14.24 per 100 kg or part thereof. To make the motorcycles easier a bike
> under 250 is deemed to be 100-200 kg ans bikes over 250cc are deemed to be
> 200-300 kg.
>
> A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus TPI of
> $292.20 and other standard fees.
>
> Sounds like a fair thing to me.

Pity it doesn't go up as the cubic axle load.

--
TimC
If anyone tells me to work smarter, not harder, I will kick him
or her, hard, in a random body part. I will then kick him or her
a second time, "smarter, not harder," which is to say that on the
second strike, I'll use the same force, but target more carefully.
-- Catherine in Scary Devil Monastery

[TimC]

On 2006-03-30, Paulie-AU (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>> A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus
>> TPI of
>> $292.20 and other standard fees.
>>
>> Sounds like a fair thing to me.
> Yeah that is pretty fair.
>
> So if they introduced bike rego my roadie would cost about $1.21 per
> year. woot woot, then noone could complain. :D

To be fair, it'd have to include the weight of the rider as well.

Muhahahaha! A benefit of only being 62kg.

--
TimC
These days I'd use MOSFETs. 1kV 6A (use at 200VDC) ones are about $10 US.
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfpg50.pdf
Should do a hell of a job on twisted pair Ethernet equipment. - Brian in ASR

[DaveB]

Bleve wrote:
> once, and they work. No skin off despite a reasonable slide across the
> Eastern Freeway (coming off Hoddle St , hit oil or something on the
> 270 degree onramp .. poo!).

Aagh as far as the motorbike goes, that's my least favourite 20-30m of
road in Melbourne, probably anywhere.

DaveB

[Theo Bekkers]

Paulie-AU wrote:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:

>> Currently at $14.24 per 100 kg or part thereof.

> So if they introduced bike rego my roadie would cost about $1.21 per
> year. woot woot, then noone could complain. :D

Read the above again.

Theo

[LotteBum]

warrwych Wrote:
> with their feet up in the air like they are about to undergo some
> gyneaocological procedure.. :D :D :D
Ha, couldn't have said it better myself!


--
LotteBum

[Theo Bekkers]

sinus wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:

>> All generalisations are wrong, Henry.

> Should that be "All generalisations are wrong, including this one"

That's right.

Theo :-)

[Theo Bekkers]

TimC wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote

>> A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus
>> TPI of $292.20 and other standard fees.

> Pity it doesn't go up as the cubic axle load.

Actually trucks are licensed differently. A 12 tonne 2 axle truck costs $334
with a TPI of $269.80, cheaper than a Landcrusher.

Theo

[TimC]

On 2006-03-30, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> Theo Bekkers wrote
>
>>> A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus
>>> TPI of $292.20 and other standard fees.
>
>> Pity it doesn't go up as the cubic axle load.
>
> Actually trucks are licensed differently. A 12 tonne 2 axle truck costs $334
> with a TPI of $269.80, cheaper than a Landcrusher.

Hey Theo, you missed your chance to say "with sirens" :)

But this is the natural order of the universe. Pity the other states
aren't like it.

--
TimC
Press any key to continue, any other key to abort
-- thrillbert's code

[Theo Bekkers]

TimC wrote:
> Theo Bekkers wrote

>> Actually trucks are licensed differently. A 12 tonne 2 axle truck
>> costs $334 with a TPI of $269.80, cheaper than a Landcrusher.

> Hey Theo, you missed your chance to say "with sirens" :)

Cheaper rate if you have a siren.

> But this is the natural order of the universe. Pity the other states
> aren't like it.

We've only been this way for about six years, before that it was "multiply
the bore in inches by the number of cylinders and by a constant". You guys
will eventually catch up. :-)

Theo

[Gemma_k]

"Paulie-AU" > wrote in
message ...
>
> Gemma Kernich Wrote:
>> Not just lack of gloves, but also lack of jackets, sturdy trousers and
>> boots. And full-face helmets. :-)
>> Scootering just isn't 'cool' with safety gear I suspect.
>>
>> Gemm<---- can't see without a full-face helmet!
> I can fully appreciate the benefits of safety clothing when it comes to
> riding on the road, however given the power of a scooter and the speeds
> it is capable of (on the flat without a downhill and speed tuck) I
> really cant see the difference between riding a scooter without safety
> gear and a road bicycle in lycra and a little foam thing on my head.
> In fact my roadie can and does hit higher speeds than the scooter. (for
> shorter times adimittedly)

You need to get a bigger scooter. Zebee and I can point you in the right
direction ;-)

And the difference in safety gear comes down to practicalities. It's ****
easy to ride a scooter with a decent armoured jacket on. It's very
difficult to do the same on a bicycle! There have been times when I've been
sliding down the road (after a bicycle prang) and wished it was a dead cow's
skin I was wearing away instead of mine...

I won't go into the little foam thing on your head argument, we've have
enough h*lm*t debates this week.

Gemm

[Peter Signorini]

"Theo Bekkers" > wrote in message
...
> Paulie-AU wrote:
>> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>
>>> Currently at $14.24 per 100 kg or part thereof.
>
>> So if they introduced bike rego my roadie would cost about $1.21 per
>> year. woot woot, then noone could complain. :D
>
> Read the above again.

So $14.24, plus $292.20 for TPI. $306.44 starts to sound like a fairly hefty
sort of bill.

No don't go there. Unpowered bikes pay no charges, just like all other
unpowered transport

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

[TimC]

On 2006-03-30, SteveA (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> TimC Wrote:
>> On 2006-03-30, Paulie-AU (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> > Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>> >> A 1000 kg car pays $142.40, a 3000 kg Landcrusher pays $427.20. Plus
>> >> TPI of
>> >> $292.20 and other standard fees.
>> >>
>> >> Sounds like a fair thing to me.
>> > Yeah that is pretty fair.
>> >
>> > So if they introduced bike rego my roadie would cost about $1.21 per
>> > year. woot woot, then noone could complain. :D
>>
>> To be fair, it'd have to include the weight of the rider as well.
>>
>> Muhahahaha! A benefit of only being 62kg.
>
> For consistency with cars (in at least some jurisdictions), rego of
> pushies should be based on the capacity of the engine rather than the
> weight of the engine. So, Tim, if your capacity, as measured on a Goat
> night is 4 litres, you should pay double the bicycle rego that a person
> with only a capacity of 2 litres pays.

4L? What have people been telling you?

I thought I was only a glass and a half! :)

Yay! Goat tomorrow (er, today; just got back from spectating at
alley-cats)! Weather sucky, so we'll see about... ahem, a certain
last friday of the month ride.

--
TimC
FORTRAN is a good example of a language which is easier to parse
using ad hoc techniques. -- D. Gries

[Theo Bekkers]

Peter Signorini wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" wrote

>> Read the above again.

> So $14.24, plus $292.20 for TPI. $306.44 starts to sound like a
> fairly hefty sort of bill.

No. Scooters only pay about $30 TPI.

> No don't go there. Unpowered bikes pay no charges, just like all other
> unpowered transport

I think we should licence pedestrians, make them wear helmets, give
handsignals, have a bell attached to their wrist, and keep to the left of
the goddamn path. :-)

Theo

[J5]

"LotteBum" > wrote in message
...
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>> I see more scooter riders than motorcycle riders without gloves too.
> I don't wear gloves. I wore my O'Neal Impact gloves on really cold
> days last winter, however I get the feeling I looked like a total
> scooter-cross tool, so I plan to coax Paulie into buying me a nice set
> of leather gloves from Country Road for this winter (I hope he's
> reading this - saves asking for them!). I never wear gloves on my
> mountain bike because I'm just... well, TUFF. When I wear gloves on my
> road bike in winter, it's more about the snot rag on the side than the
> protection factor. Oh, and my hands get dry from the cold.

hmm i agree with you , it makes so much more sense to not being able
to wipe your own arse from the gravel rash you get from sliding down the
road

>
> I have a feeling scooters aren't as popular (yet) in Brisbane as they
> are in other cities perhaps?
>
> Lotte
>
>
> --
> LotteBum
>

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 2 Apr 2006 01:56:06 +1100
J5 > wrote:
>
> hmm i agree with you , it makes so much more sense to not being able
> to wipe your own arse from the gravel rash you get from sliding down the
> road

How many crashes have you had?

Under what circumstances? How much gravel rash happens in the typical
commuter crash, and where is it?

You must know these things, and have the research links to back your
knowledge up, please share!

Zebee

[Tamyka Bell]

LotteBum wrote:
>
> J5 Wrote:
> > hmm i agree with you , it makes so much more sense to not being able to
> > wipe your own arse from the gravel rash you get from sliding down the
> > road
> You're a cyclist, yes? Do you wear protective clothing when riding
> down hills at 50 - 60km/h? That's about as fast as my commute gets
> bar about 200 metres of road. I also ride at these sorts of speeds on
> my pushbike. When riding in the bush I regularly clock up 50km/h
> riding down gravel hills... in lycra.
>
> Please continue lecturing me though. Surely you won't want your hard
> earned tax dollars paying for my gravel rash - you'd much rather pay
> for smokers, obese people etc. Right?

Gee, Lotte, you mean YOUR lycra isn't kevlar beaded? Mine is!

(-n't)

Tam

[Theo Bekkers]

LotteBum wrote:

> Please continue lecturing me though. Surely you won't want your hard
> earned tax dollars paying for my gravel rash - you'd much rather pay
> for smokers, obese people etc. Right?

Of course. I want my tax dollars to pay for obese smokers _with_ gravel
rash.

Theo

[Trevor_S]

"The P" > wrote in
:

> One reason I ride my bicycle is as its faster than a car or motorbike
> along certain routes. Being held up by any motorised vehicle in a
> bike lane is quite annoying.

Presumably you also feel for "Car" drivers who are "held up" by "slow"
cyclists" in a "car lane" ?

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[TimC]

On 2006-04-03, Trevor_S (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> "The P" > wrote in
> :
>
>> One reason I ride my bicycle is as its faster than a car or motorbike
>> along certain routes. Being held up by any motorised vehicle in a
>> bike lane is quite annoying.
>
> Presumably you also feel for "Car" drivers who are "held up" by "slow"
> cyclists" in a "car lane" ?

Nope. Just because their vehicle is using space so inefficiently they
can't get past me in a lane that's 3m wide (enough for 2 more bikes!),
ain't my problem.

--
TimC
> So, what do *you* do for a living?
I sit in a chair, pressing small plastic rectangles with my fingers
while peering at many tiny, colored dots. -- Peter Manders

[Trevor_S]

TimC > wrote in news:slrn-
:

<snip>

> Nope. Just because their vehicle is using space so inefficiently they
> can't get past me in a lane that's 3m wide (enough for 2 more bikes!),
> ain't my problem.

Uh huh... I think the word you are looking for is hypocrisy.

--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[Tamyka Bell]

Trevor_S wrote:
>
> TimC > wrote in news:slrn-
> :
>
> <snip>
>
> > Nope. Just because their vehicle is using space so inefficiently they
> > can't get past me in a lane that's 3m wide (enough for 2 more bikes!),
> > ain't my problem.
>
> Uh huh... I think the word you are looking for is hypocrisy.

Dude...

ain't no such thing as a "car lane"

Tam

[Tamyka Bell]

Vincent Patrick wrote:
<snip>
> Looking it another way, you are not likely to catch me wearing lycra on a
> motorbike! :-)

Is that 'cos I'm too slow? :P

Tam

[Resound]

"Trevor_S" > wrote in message
.131...
> TimC > wrote in
> news:slrn-
> :
>
> <snip>
>
>> Nope. Just because their vehicle is using space so inefficiently they
>> can't get past me in a lane that's 3m wide (enough for 2 more bikes!),
>> ain't my problem.
>
> Uh huh... I think the word you are looking for is hypocrisy.
>
> --
> Trevor S
>
>
> "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> -Albert Einstein

There is a difference between a vehicle using one lane and possibly holding
up someone and someone using two lanes (regular lane and bike lane) and
effectively (and unneccessarily) holding up two other vehicles. The reason I
say that the bike *possibly* holds someone up is that what almost invariably
happens is that the car gets fast the bicycle fairly quickly and winds up
being held up immediately afterwards by the car that they would have been
behind anyway had the bike not been there. In other words, no difference at
all in journey time. Changing lanes briefly is not a difficult thing. So a
bike being held up by a car encroaching onto a bike lane is the result of
poor driving by the car driver while a car being held up by a bike in the
car lane is usually the result of poor driving by the car driver. In short,
we're talking about two rather different situations.

[Vincent Patrick]

Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Vincent Patrick wrote:
> <snip>
>> Looking it another way, you are not likely to catch me wearing lycra on a
>> motorbike! :-)
>
> Is that 'cos I'm too slow? :P
>
> Tam


More likely a lack of motivation, Tam ...

;-)