The KH prototype geared MUni. (from moab)

[Fuego]

As far as I can tell, nobody's posted about this. SO, this is the place
for discussing what you think of a KH geared splined invincible MUni.

I, for one, rode it at moab, and it was really really slick. there was
almost no lag in the shifting, and it felt really sturdy. I didn't take
it off any drops or anything, but Kris rode it the whole time, and he
said he'd done some huge drops on it.

(if this is supposed to be under wraps or something, this should be
deleted, I suppose. I don't see why it would be though.)


--
Fuego

morons everywhere wrote:
> Get off my Property before you sue me!




James_Potter wrote:
> you'll end up on CNN, with the headline, Unicyclist Beaten to Death by
> Policemen...it'll be sweet.
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[forrestunifreak]

Yeah that thing was sweet, and tough too, I saw Kris doing crazy trials
stuff on it (in 24" mode of course)

it's a little hard to get used to the coker mode though....I got trail
rash on my elbow from it. :)


--
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[litldude2]

Someone said he broke the shifter thing off so it was stuck in 24" mode,
is that just a rumor or is it true? If I had an extra $1600 lying
around I would buy one when they come out.


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chosen wrote:
> wish i could be in a signature...*sigh*



James_Potter wrote:
> I think we could just apply the same cure we use for bread, to humans.
> just scrape off the cancer with a butter knife, then put jelly on it,
> and eat it...mmmmmm
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[forrestunifreak]

No, he just broke the button to shift it, so he had to get off and stick
something in the hole to shift it with. I rode it in coker mode on
sunday, so yeah it still worked.


--
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Money talks. Mine says goodbye. *'My gallery'
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[litldude2]

Yeah, I meant the button. Did you ride it after the ride on sunday or
before? We went alot father after you had to leave.


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chosen wrote:
> wish i could be in a signature...*sigh*



James_Potter wrote:
> I think we could just apply the same cure we use for bread, to humans.
> just scrape off the cancer with a butter knife, then put jelly on it,
> and eat it...mmmmmm
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[Fuego]

we rode it both days, once after Saturday's ride and once on the trail
on Sunday.


--
Fuego

morons everywhere wrote:
> Get off my Property before you sue me!




James_Potter wrote:
> you'll end up on CNN, with the headline, Unicyclist Beaten to Death by
> Policemen...it'll be sweet.
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[ntappin]

That would be amazing for street if he made a 19" splined geared uni.
Crazy speed but same size.


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[Fuego]

I dunno about that really. I can see your point, but it's more or less
the same to ride asa coker when it's in coker mode.

I'd be worried I'd break a $1600 uni...


--
Fuego

morons everywhere wrote:
> Get off my Property before you sue me!




James_Potter wrote:
> you'll end up on CNN, with the headline, Unicyclist Beaten to Death by
> Policemen...it'll be sweet.
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[ntappin]

Well if the idea is that its strong then I should hope it can take it,
otherwise you might aswell ride a normal geared uni and not splined.


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[harper]

This is a way cool advance in technology. Kris had e-mailed me briefly
about it awhile ago and I was skeptical while he was thinking it was
going to fly. From what he told me earlier this performed beyond his
expectations. It certainly performed beyond mine. I didn't think it
could be done this fast and wasn't convinced that it could be done at
all. Congratulations to Kris and to Florian for making this huge
technological leap.

And I missed Moab because I had to "work." And the "work" I'm doing is
hurting my knees as much as the Moab ride would have. Very annoying, I
would like to have seen this creature as well as the splendid assembly
of superb humanity that makes up the collective of the Moab unicycle
weekend.


--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
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[showard]

For a look at the two speed prototype KH hub in action look here:

http://tinyurl.com/nr8l5

I talked to Kris a few minutes after I took this video. One of the
shifting buttions was bent on the flight to SLC and when Kris tried to
bend it back, it broke off. He had to use an Allen wrench to poke the
shifting rod when shifting from 1:1 to 1:5 mode but besides that it
worked fine.

The axle/crank interface is ISIS splines and the cranks are aluminum.
As you can see from the video, it held up well.

Harper, you were sorely missed at Moab this year. The ratio of geezers
to youngsters was loathsome at best. I represented the geezers while
John Childs represented the Seattle Area Riders. Your name was
mentioned several times in reference to geared hubs and I wore my
"Harper Hottie" tee shirt to the dinner Saturday night. Spoiled a few
appetites I must say. We did our best to represent both special
interest groups but you could have made such an impact on both fronts
had you only been there ...

SH


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[maxisback]

wow that looks effing sick, would be AMAZING on a 19"... think of how
many stairs you could be able to clear :cool:


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[madmattunipro]

That sounds awesome, I've wished there was a shiftable hub that could
take abuse before.

The video doesn't work, any other links or sources?


--
madmattunipro

Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving in a
pretty well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly
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[maxisback]

I dont have another source, but that hub looks like it can take ALOT of
abuse..


--
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[Daytripper63]

Damn, I feel a Merry Christmas too ME coming down the line:D


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[harper]

showard wrote:
>
> I talked to Kris a few minutes after I took this video. One of the
> shifting buttions was bent on the flight to SLC and when Kris tried to
> bend it back, it broke off. He had to use an Allen wrench to poke the
> shifting rod when shifting from 1:1 to 1:5 mode but besides that it
> worked fine.
>
> The axle/crank interface is ISIS splines and the cranks are aluminum.
> As you can see from the video, it held up well.
>
> Harper, you were sorely missed at Moab this year. The ratio of geezers
> to youngsters was loathsome at best. I represented the geezers while
> John Childs represented the Seattle Area Riders. Your name was
> mentioned several times in reference to geared hubs and I wore my
> "Harper Hottie" tee shirt to the dinner Saturday night. Spoiled a few
> appetites I must say. We did our best to represent both special
> interest groups but you could have made such an impact on both fronts
> had you only been there ...
>
> SH



Any idea what the weakest link is where all the impact forces go? I
would guess the planet spindles and the holes that hold them in the
planet cage. I never thought the axle itself to be too much of a
problem and the gears that Florian makes are case hardened and much
larger in diameter than their coresponding spindles. My guess is that
he bushes the spindles with sintered bronze which might tend to get
squished and out of round. Has Kris heard from Florian where he thinks
problems might develop from impact?

I am very pleased to know that I am still spoiling appetites on a
national scale at least. My name is often raised several times in
reference to many distasteful topics. Sorry about the extra work you
had to do representing the geezer contingency. I thought Rolf was over
50 but maybe he was busy "organizing" or something.


--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
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[dan de man]

it would be cool if you coul if you could gear a 12inch to act like a
coker


--
dan de man

the second maori unicyclist on this forum (the first being
unicyclistjoe)hehehe i can imagine myself doing a unihaka before a
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[joemarshall]

showard wrote:
> For a look at the two speed prototype KH hub in action look here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nr8l5
>
> I talked to Kris a few minutes after I took this video. One of the
> shifting buttions was bent on the flight to SLC and when Kris tried to
> bend it back, it broke off. He had to use an Allen wrench to poke the
> shifting rod when shifting from 1:1 to 1:5 mode but besides that it
> worked fine.
>
> The axle/crank interface is ISIS splines and the cranks are aluminum.
> As you can see from the video, it held up well.
>



That looks so so cool, KH frame, Schlumpf hub. Finally a well designed
frame available for the schlumpf hub.

I wish I'd never bought my standard schlumpf now, a months salary for 4
hours of unicycling and 3.5 months of not being able to ride it isn't a
good deal. By the time my schlumpf gets warrantied, I could have bought
a KH.

Joe


--
joemarshall

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[unisteve]

A 24" unicycle like that would be the ultimate do-all machine...

Mmm... Coker on over to the muni trails and then shift it into 24" mode
again.

The possibilities!


--
unisteve

-\"i live on the edge. sometimes i fall off.\"-

harper is my hero.

chuck norris!
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[U-Turn]

I guess I'm confused (not hard to do). Is this a new hub or a standard
Schlumpf? Is this a special version of the Schlumpf hub? What's
"prototype" about it?


--
U-Turn

Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
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[UNIquelyCanadian]

U-Turn wrote:
> I guess I'm confused (not hard to do). Is this a new hub or a standard
> Schlumpf? Is this a special version of the Schlumpf hub? What's
> "prototype" about it?



I have no idea, but...

It seems to be a completely new hub. Definatly not the standard
Schlumph because the cranks are ISIS.

I can't imagine doing those drops on a Schlumph hub. However, Kris does
have incredible landing technique.


--
UNIquelyCanadian

~Cameron
Macro Photography: _www.camerondonaldson.com__

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asking you not to believe them. So don’t.”
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[Brian MacKenzie]

ISIS standard splines


--
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[mornish]

so I take it it will need special cranks?

Miles


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[ntappin]

Isis is pretty standard, any Koxx cranks would work on it.


--
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[Brian MacKenzie]

mornish wrote:
> so I take it it will need special cranks?
>
> Miles



yes, but the great part is, is that it is a bicycle industry sandard,
and has been for years

(this was a brilliant move, to switch to ISIS)

and these are 160mm!! [image:
http://www.trial.ricany.cz/obchod/images/parts/cranks-echo-isis.jpg]


i'll be replacing my muni with this thing, I tell you what!!


--
Brian MacKenzie

'Training Wheel Not Required DVD - New 6min short as seen on
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All proceeds from TWNR go directly into my next movie due for release
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[andytait]

Does anyone know when this uni will be in the shops?


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[bmemike]

What's the weight of the hub compared to other splined hubs?


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[pete66]

Damn this is the stuff dreams are made of, a KH geared uni!! Hopefully
it's super reliable and not too heavy! It'd be so crazy going fast on a
19", I'd also love to see a KH22(g) street uni.

edit: good bit of solid riding from Kris in that clip, by the way.


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: guni.jpg |
|Download: http://www.unicyclist.com/attachment/12724 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

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[Gilby]

U-Turn wrote:
> I guess I'm confused (not hard to do). Is this a new hub or a standard
> Schlumpf? Is this a special version of the Schlumpf hub? What's
> "prototype" about it?



It's not the standard Schlumpf unicycle hub. The main difference is
that this one is not a tapered hub, but is an ISIS splined one. KH is
testing this new one out before it goes into production. He mentioned
at the Saturday dinner that it'll likely be available in July.

Another difference, which I think is significant, is that the hub has
no arm that attaches to the frame. Instead the fixed point to the frame
is within the bearing holders. This means that you can easily flip the
hub around so that the shifting mechanism is going the other way. For
MUni and trails, this is huge. When I try to hop up stairs on my
Schlumpf, I accidentally hit the shift mechanism, which means a UPD is
going to happen. This is because the foot I have forward when hopping
is the foot that shifts up, and I'd rarely hop in geared mode. If I
were to flip the hub around, I would never have anything close to where
I would accidentaly hit the shift button while hopping.


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[TheObieOne3226]

Brian MacKenzie wrote:
> yes, but the great part is, is that it is a bicycle industry sandard,
> and has been for years
>
> (this was a brilliant move, to switch to ISIS)
>
> and these are 160mm!! [image:
> http://www.trial.ricany.cz/obchod/images/parts/cranks-echo-isis.jpg]
>
>
> i'll be replacing my muni with this thing, I tell you what!!





Just sold a pair rode 3 times for $50 in 160.




ISIS means you can get 1000 cranks in 170 but only a few dozen in sizes
below. But I'm assuming this will lead to unicycle companies making
ISIS cranks and eventually getting bike companies to make them in
shorter sizes. We're one step closer to sharing cranks with bikes.


Oh, I guess the geared muni is cool.

I can't afford one, don't want one, and don't need one. I do feel like
I'm riding around on a model T though with a 2 STEEL (OMG) framed
unicycles with only one gear apiece


--
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mental

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[TheObieOne3226]

bmemike wrote:
> What's the weight of the hub compared to other splined hubs?




This hub=2 KH/Onza hubs is my guess.


--
TheObieOne3226

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'Sixsixone' (http://www.sixsixone.com)

\"obie is definately a trend setter, i got in to unicycling because of
him, and came here because of him\" - kj-52

\"try not to annoy the great obie, for he is better than us.\" - murde
mental

*disclaimer: the above message was not intended to offend anyone. if
you are offended i can take no responsibility for my actions because i
don't feel like it. also you are reading an internet newsgroup where
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[unisteve]

I want a price on one of these things. This could be my "now that I've
worked all summer I'm going to spend all my money on one thing" gift to
myself.

This is very exciting news to me, because I've been thinking that I
need a coker for high speed stuff. This could be the start of a
unicycling revolution!

Leave it to the KH team to keep the wicked-sick awesomeness happening.
w00t!


--
unisteve

[SIZE="1"]-"I live on the edge. Sometimes I fall off."-

Harper is my hero.
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[pdc]

TheObieOne3226 wrote:
> This hub=2 KH/Onza hubs is my guess.



I'd guess closer to 4 to 5 KH/Onza Hubs


--
pdc

"What doesn't kill you strengthens you, what kills you strengthens your
mother"
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[Fuego]

For the people who asked about price, I think Kris said like $1600 at
the dinner.


--
Fuego

morons everywhere wrote:
> Get off my Property before you sue me!




James_Potter wrote:
> you'll end up on CNN, with the headline, Unicyclist Beaten to Death by
> Policemen...it'll be sweet.
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[johnfoss]

dan de man wrote:
> it would be cool if you coul if you could gear a 12inch to act like a
> coker


...Until you hit a bump at 20+ mph... :eek:

I'll stick with something at least a little bigger for going fast.

But this is the first I've heard of a geared KH with splined hub. What
an idea! 1:1 for the technical sections and 1.5:1 for the cruising
parts. And I guess a big fat "oops" for the technical parts you cruise
up to without warning, but hey you can't have everything and still be
on a unicycle!

I'm bummed I didn't get to try it out last weekend. Still wondering
what will become of the 4" tire MUni George Barnes had at Moab last
year. Not too desperate though, because a tire that size kind of takes
all the challenge out of most terrain...


--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

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[zippy]

can anyone plz explain the differences plz to me in hubs?


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[musketman]

yea he said it'll be out July or August! I think i will save up and get
teh hub when it comes out seperately...is it does come out seperately.

He said he took it off 6ft drops and it held up so...yea That thing was
sweet, but i didn't ride it, just looked at it.


--
musketman
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[tholub]

johnfoss wrote:
>
> I'm bummed I didn't get to try it out last weekend. Still wondering
> what will become of the 4" tire MUni George Barnes had at Moab last
> year. Not too desperate though, because a tire that size kind of takes
> all the challenge out of most terrain...



Someone was there riding a prototype Surley Conundrum, with the 3.7"
Endomorph tire (advertised as 4", but not really that wide). It's safe
to say, it didn't take the challenge out of the terrain.


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[unicycle6869]

tholub wrote:
> Someone was there riding a prototype Surley Conundrum, with the 3.7"
> Endomorph tire (advertised as 4", but not really that wide). It's safe
> to say, it didn't take the challenge out of the terrain.



Ya, that was Joe from MN. It would work really well for sandy areas
and/or snowy conditions. Otherwise in my opinion it was too heavy and
bulky for the stuff at MOAB and I think he's wishing he would have
brought a regular Muni to ride instead....


--
unicycle6869

Jamey (formerly known as tuna6869)

Which is worse, a president who screws an intern, or a president who
screws the country?

*20 Years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
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[musketman]

unicycle6869 wrote:
> Ya, that was Joe from MN. It would work really well for sandy areas
> and/or snowy conditions. Otherwise in my opinion it was too heavy and
> bulky for the stuff at MOAB and I think he's wishing he would have
> brought a regular Muni to ride instead....



yea it was huge! i rode it, and it was like pie to go through sand, but
to heavy for anything else.


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[mscalisi]

...but it is one of Florian's isn't it?

Regarding the new design, does it require a special frame? How does it
attach to the bearing holders?



Gilby wrote:
> It's not the standard Schlumpf unicycle hub. The main difference is that
> this one is not a tapered hub, but is an ISIS splined one. KH is
> testing this new one out before it goes into production. He mentioned
> at the Saturday dinner that it'll likely be available in July.
>
> Another difference, which I think is significant, is that the hub has
> no arm that attaches to the frame. Instead the fixed point to the frame
> is within the bearing holders. This means that you can easily flip the
> hub around so that the shifting mechanism is going the other way. For
> MUni and trails, this is huge. When I try to hop up stairs on my
> Schlumpf, I accidentally hit the shift mechanism, which means a UPD is
> going to happen. This is because the foot I have forward when hopping
> is the foot that shifts up, and I'd rarely hop in geared mode. If I
> were to flip the hub around, I would never have anything close to where
> I would accidentaly hit the shift button while hopping.


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[Gilby]

mscalisi wrote:
> ...but it is one of Florian's isn't it?
>
> Regarding the new design, does it require a special frame? How does it
> attach to the bearing holders?


Yes, it's made by Florian. I don't know how different the frame was,
but the attachment to it was simply friction within the bearing
holders. Kris said it hasn't posed any problem for him yet.


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Gilby
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[manon1wheel]

kris was a beast in that movie...

ive never seen kris in a movie before...

neither have i seen anyone go down a trail like that at that speeds!
and was he in a normal 24" mode or in a higher gear?


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manon1wheel

Riley

I LOVE YOU GILBY
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[litldude2]

Kris told us that one side was a normal bearing holder and the other
side had a sleeve or something like that that connects it to the frame
so you don't have to have the fixed arm like the other geared unis.


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chosen wrote:
> wish i could be in a signature...*sigh*



James_Potter wrote:
> I think we could just apply the same cure we use for bread, to humans.
> just scrape off the cancer with a butter knife, then put jelly on it,
> and eat it...mmmmmm
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[manon1wheel]

sounds sweet. i wish i was a "god of muni" so i could just go and design
some flipping sweet unicycle. and than sell a whole bunch.


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manon1wheel

Riley

I LOVE YOU GILBY
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[flyer]

These are AMAZING. While I already have a 24" MUni, I'm in the market
for a Coker. If these are out soon I might go for one on a 29" wheel,
which would be the most excellent cross-country/road machine (with big
apple) ever. Totally excited, this is so awesome!


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flyer
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[danger_uni]

Hey,

The geared hub is a collaborative project between Schlumpf and KHU and
will be sold in the KH lineup, starting later this year. No fixed date
yet but probably towards mid/late summer. Basically it builds on the
existing Schlumpf design in ways that I think will be an improvement
for Muni and a design improvement in general. It will be available in
any size of KH frame.

Some of the differences between it and the existing hub are:
-wider flange-flange spacing (standard 100mm bearing width)
-ISIS spline
-stronger internals
-lever arm located as a sleeve within a standard 42mm bearing housing
-extra wide bearings, actually two 37mm bearings on each side inside a
standard 12mm x 42mm casing. This increases frame stiffness by
reducing bearing flex.

So far I've tested it for about 4 months on the Vancouver North Shore
and now at Moab. It has stood up really well, with lots of aggressive
riding and drops up to 2 metres (with good transitions), and it feels
the same as when I initially installed it. It doesn't feel
discernibly heavier when riding compared to the existing KH24. I
haven't weight the proto but I think it's probably less than 1/2 lb.
heavier than a normal hub- not too much.

The shifter button broke but it was completely my fault- I packed it
terribly heading to Moab and a spoke from another unicycle jammed
between the shifter button and the frame, bending it in the baggage
handling process. I tried to bend it back and broke it. I might still
look at some minor changes to strengthen it though.

Shifting is easy and quick on paved terrain (once you are used to it),
and quite difficult on bumpy terrain. The 1.5:1 gear ratio is quite
high and is mostly useful for fast riding on really easy singletrack or
fire roads or on pavement. We could make it less (perhaps 1.3:1) but
I think it's best to keep it high, because many riders will want it for
road touring and commutes to/from the trailhead. Riding in high gear
feels like a Coker with the manouverability of a KH24- pretty cool.

It will be a bit more expensive than the existing Schlumpf, which
remains a very good choice for on-road riding. No fixed price yet
but the goal is to have it around US$1600 to US$1700 including the uni.
Sounds expensive but a few years ago a regular KH24 was almost this
much =).

Kris


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[tholub]

danger_uni wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Some of the differences between it and the existing hub are:
> -wider flange-flange spacing (standard 100mm bearing width)
> -ISIS spline
>



Will future non-geared KH hubs be moving to ISIS splines?


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[litldude2]

So would we be able to just buy the hub and cranks and use it in a
previous KH frame and buy the different bearing holder separately? Do
you have a ballpark guess of the price of just the hub? If I had a job
then I might want to relace one of my wheels with it if I didn't have
to buy the whole new uni.


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chosen wrote:
> wish i could be in a signature...*sigh*



James_Potter wrote:
> I think we could just apply the same cure we use for bread, to humans.
> just scrape off the cancer with a butter knife, then put jelly on it,
> and eat it...mmmmmm
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[Gilby]

litldude2 wrote:
> So would we be able to just buy the hub and cranks and use it in a
> previous KH frame and buy the different bearing holder separately? Do
> you have a ballpark guess of the price of just the hub? If I had a job
> then I might want to relace one of my wheels with it if I didn't have
> to buy the whole new uni.



$1600 to $1700 less cost of KH24 without hub ($520-$217) is ~ $1300 to
$1400.


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[litldude2]

Wow, so the price of just the KH geared hub is the same as or more than
the price of a whole schlumph uni. I guess I will wait a couple of
years.


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chosen wrote:
> wish i could be in a signature...*sigh*



James_Potter wrote:
> I think we could just apply the same cure we use for bread, to humans.
> just scrape off the cancer with a butter knife, then put jelly on it,
> and eat it...mmmmmm
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[GizmoDuck]

That's pretty cool Kris. I think the speed differences between
mountainbikes and MUni's will narrow significantly :) Can't wait to get
one for racing in some of my local mountainbike events-might even be
competitive!

By the way, same question as in a couple of posts above, is the KH/Onza
hub going to change it's spline configuration to ISIS at any stage? I'm
thinking of getting a KH 29'er, and eventually upgrading all my Uni's
to a splined set up. I don't want to do that unless there is a low
likelihood of spline's changing (so that the cranks on all my Uni's
remain interchangeable with each other). Will there be a variety of
cranks lengths available? I think that as a minimum: 100mm, 110mm,
125, 150s would be useful.

Also, what is the Q-factor on the hub compared to the standard UDC
hub?

Ken


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GizmoDuck

'www.adventureunicyclist.com' (http://www.adventureunicyclist.com/)
'Laos Unicycle Tour' (http://www.laosunitour.org)
'New Zealand Unicycle Federation' (http://www.unicycle.org.nz)

The SINZ Unitour- coming soon......
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[Gilby]

litldude2 wrote:
> Wow, so the price of just the KH geared hub is the same as or more than
> the price of a whole schlumph uni. I guess I will wait a couple of
> years.

It's a splined hub, so that's going to cost more.


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[maxisback]

Would the hub be strong enough for street riding ? like handrails and
big stair cases ? I know you did a 2m drop on it but from drops and
gaps theres a difference.. well to me :)


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Quiters never win, winners never quit , the ones who never win and never
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[mscalisi]

On the contrary, this will be the least expensive splined shiftable MUni
on the market.



danger_uni wrote:
> .
> Sounds expensive but a few years ago a regular KH24 was almost this
> much =).
>
> Kris


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[Probailer2]

mscalisi wrote:
> On the contrary, this will be the least expensive splined shiftable MUni
> on the market.



because there is only one splined shiftable muni on the market:D


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Probailer2

Originally Posted by john_childs
Mmmmm... Sexy welds.
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