Sizing flat-bar roadies & opinions on Avanti Blade 8

[suzyj]

A couple of quick questions for those of you with more experience than I
have in these flat handlebar thingies…

I'm considering buying an Avanti Blade 8 (with Nexus-8 hub gears) for
commuting, to save my better bikes for weekend use.

I’m very particular about the size of my road bikes, and like the
handlebars to be in fairly specific positions relative to the
seat/bottom bracket, depending on what the bike’s to be used for. In
general, I size my bikes by top-tube, as everything else is fairly
adjustable.

Now of course my sizing to date is predicated on drop bars, where my
usual hand position is on the corners of the bars or on the tops of the
hoods. One imagines that sizing a flat bar bike the same way as my
roadies would mean that the bars are at the same spot as the tops,
implying that I’d be fairly upright. Should I go an extra couple of
centimetres in TT length to get a sort of compromise tops/corners/hoods
position? I’d imagine that this would result in the frame being rather
on the big size, and thus mean that I can’t get the bars as low as I
like…

I’m thinking a frame much the same size as what I’d do in a roadie (55
square), is the go, but with a stem a centimetre or so longer… Maybe a
12 rather than a 10. I do wish the bike makers would publish proper cad
drawings of their bikes.

What are people’s thoughts? Also, what are people's thoughts on the
Blade 8?

Cheers,

Suzy


--
suzyj

[flyingdutch]

would be sorely tempted to gets one myself.

I 'could' delude myself into thinking they came up with the Blade8 as i
sent off 'feedback to the Avanti people's saying they could easily make
a very sellable coomuter if they whacked a hubgear onto a Blade frame
(I did also mention disc brakes, rack, guards too but to no avail :(
)
but probably more likely it was european trends that urged them to do
it?

Anyway, cant help on sizing. try one/measure one in the flesh?

Get narrow bars and bar ends. the lil' short ones. you dont use more
than the first 2 inches...

The Inter8 hub is the 'lower' of the 2 models. slightly heavier and
not quite as good seals on it apparently as the one with the
red-stripe
but still quite OK apparently

get a drive-enclosing guard to complete the picture :D:D:D


--
flyingdutch

[DeF]

suzyj wrote:
> A couple of quick questions for those of you with more experience than I
> have in these flat handlebar thingies…

SNIP

>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
>
>

Just a few thoughts that I hope are not completely useless..

My spouse has the Avanti Blade Comp (27 sp, mixture
of middle/lower range shimano stuff). I nice bike and
I've had a ride although it's a bit small for me. I
like the frame, it seems to be set up like a traditional
touring frame and thought if they put drop bars on it,
it would make a nice tourer.

So what about that as an option? As well as the bike,
you would need to fork out for bars and shifters. Not
sure about using "normal" brake levers with v-brakes
(although the blade 8 has calliper brakes I think). Adds
a bit to the cost of the bike but then you might just
end up with exactly what you want.

WRT flat bars, I've got an MTB with slicks that I use
for commuting (only about 15 minutes). I've been for
longer rides (over an hour) and find that I get uncomfortable
being in the same riding position. The big advantage of
drop bars is the variety of riding positions you have,
especially with the angle of you upper body.


I think the idea of hub gears on "general purpose" bikes
is a great one - you can use a heavier, longer lasting
chain, lower maintenance, simplicity of operation etc.
Should be more of them.

DeF.



--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

[Rory Williams]

suzyj Wrote:
> get the bars as low as I like…
>
> I’m thinking a frame much the same size as what I’d do in a roadie (55
> square), is the go, but with a stem a centimetre or so longer… Maybe a
> 12 rather than a 10. I do wish the bike makers would publish proper cad
> drawings of their bikes.
>
> Suzy


I think my gut feel would be to go with your road size and tweak the
stem or bar ends in the first instance.

My understanding of the nexus system is that it should work with any of
their shifters (I was told this about the 7 speed hubs) so you if you
felt dropbar deprivation could always switch to dropbars and a suitable
road brifter, although if it has V brakes it's more fiddly. To get
round this on my so called dirt-road bike I run dropbars,v-brakes,
dia-compe V285 levers, and barcon shifters.

RoryW


--
Rory Williams

[SteveA]

flyingdutch Wrote:
> would be sorely tempted to gets one myself.
>
> I 'could' delude myself into thinking they came up with the Blade8 as i
> sent off 'feedback to the Avanti people's saying they could easily make
> a very sellable coomuter if they whacked a hubgear onto a Blade frame
> (I did also mention disc brakes, rack, guards too but to no avail :( )
> but probably more likely it was european trends that urged them to do
> it?
>
> Anyway, cant help on sizing. try one/measure one in the flesh?
>
> Get narrow bars and bar ends. the lil' short ones. you dont use more
> than the first 2 inches...
>
> The Inter8 hub is the 'lower' of the 2 models. slightly heavier and not
> quite as good seals on it apparently as the one with the red-stripe
> but still quite OK apparently
>
> get a drive-enclosing guard to complete the picture :D:D:D


One of the guys at work has one. He commutes from Fremantle to Perth
each day and he is in his late-60s. He also has a Shimano generator
hub on his. Noice.

SteveA


--
SteveA

[suzyj]

Rory Williams wrote:

> My understanding of the nexus system is that it should work with
> any of their shifters (I was told this about the 7 speed hubs) so
> you if you felt dropbar deprivation could always switch to dropbars
> and a suitable road brifter, although if it has V brakes it's more
fiddly.

I've read otherwise. Apparently the cable pull (and even direction)
differs between Shimano's hub gears and their derailleur gears.

You can get an extension piece that goed in the end of a set of drop
bars to mount the shifter, but that's a nasty compromise.

Though having said that, I imagine it would be fun to take a decent
downtube shifter (like the lovely Campy record ones I have that
frighten Hippy), and machine up a pulley setup to make them work with
the hub... But then the complexity of such a thing sort of goes
against the idea of a simple, cheap, bulletproof bike.

Cheers,

Suzy


--
suzyj

[Rory Williams]

suzyj Wrote:
> Rory Williams wrote:
>
> > My understanding of the nexus system is that it should work with
> > any of their shifters (I was told this about the 7 speed hubs) so
> > you if you felt dropbar deprivation could always switch to dropbars
> > and a suitable road brifter, although if it has V brakes it's more
> fiddly.
>
> I've read otherwise. Apparently the cable pull (and even direction)
> differs between Shimano's hub gears and their derailleur gears.
>
> You can get an extension piece that goed in the end of a set of drop
> bars to mount the shifter, but that's a nasty compromise.
>
> Though having said that, I imagine it would be fun to take a decent
> downtube shifter (like the lovely Campy record ones I have that
> frighten Hippy), and machine up a pulley setup to make them work with
> the hub... But then the complexity of such a thing sort of goes
> against the idea of a simple, cheap, bulletproof bike.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy

As I remember my earlier informant was at StKilda cycles. Perhaps the
7s and 8s are different. Granted they are in Melbourne but they may
respond to an email. They're on the web. I was talking to them when I
was thinking of building up a wheel on a 7 speed hub but other projects
have come along. In the end I make up an old shimano 3 speed into a
700c wheel and that has been fun, but I am probably going to convert
that bike into a single/fixed.

For a knock-about uncomplicated bike how about a three-speed?- a
three-speed with coaster brake is also a pretty clean look. I,ve got
one of those too.

What about a Sachs/sram? I think Greenspeed get those in.

Building a 7 or 8 internal wheel one up and fitting it into an old
frame might be nice, but having a complete new bike might also be nice,
I haven't had an actual new from the shop bike since 1985 (plays
violin......).

have fun

RoryW


--
Rory Williams

[suzyj]

Rory Williams wrote:

> For a knock-about uncomplicated bike how about a
> three-speed?- a three-speed with coaster brake is
> also a pretty clean look. I,ve got one of those too.

The thing that attracts me to the Avanti Blade is that it's really
cheap. I couldn't make a bike like that for anywhere near the money.
Just the hub and shifter alone would be ~$250, and Avanti are selling
the whole box and dice for $900.

Cheers,

Suzy


--
suzyj

[gescom]

Hi Suzy

Try the following pdf for the Avanti Blade frame geometry:

http://www.avanti.co.nz/files/Avanti%20Geometry%20-%20Comfort%20%20Fitness%20&%20Electra.pdf

Quite a long effective/horizontal top tube size: medium is 570mm and
small 536. The headtube length is listed as well.


--
gescom

[DeF]

Suzy,

What you need is here....
http://www.gazelle.nl/c2006/collection.php

All in Dutch but why can't we get bikes like these
here? Most of the bikes are heavy (15 to 20kg plus) but
they look bullet proof! It's be great tooting up the
free way bike path here in Perth, past the stationary
traffic on one of these. Not much fun into a head wind
though.

DeF


--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

[ghostgum]

suzyj Wrote:
>
> The thing that attracts me to the Avanti Blade is that it's really
> cheap. I couldn't make a bike like that for anywhere near the money.
> Just the hub and shifter alone would be ~$250, and Avanti are selling
> the whole box and dice for $900.
>

That bike looks interesting. Do you know the number of teeth on the
rear
sprocket? I'm trying to compare the gear range with my bikes and that
is the missing piece of information. How much does the bike weigh?
I may be looking for a commuter bike.


--
ghostgum

[Rory Williams]

suzyj Wrote:
> Rory Williams wrote:
>
> > For a knock-about uncomplicated bike how about a
> > three-speed?- a three-speed with coaster brake is
> > also a pretty clean look. I,ve got one of those too.
>
> The thing that attracts me to the Avanti Blade is that it's really
> cheap. I couldn't make a bike like that for anywhere near the money.
> Just the hub and shifter alone would be ~$250, and Avanti are selling
> the whole box and dice for $900.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy

Most definately there is that to be said for it. I think I was looking
at nearer $300 which was rather off-putting. Anyway, building it
yourself doesn't make the sizing issue go away. I think I'd still go
with the equivelent of your road size, and tweak the stem ect. Much
cheaper to do a dropbar conversion (if its possible) in the future.

Now I'm thinking, what about an 8 speed hub into one of my spare
Raleigh 20 folding frames.......?

Yo
RoryW


--
Rory Williams

[suzyj]

Def wrote:

> What you need is here....
> http://www.gazelle.nl/c2006/collection.php

I hired a similar bike for a week in Dwingeloo (little town in the
middle of the Netherlands) a couple of years ago. It was made by
Giant, of all people.

See http://tinyurl.com/pn63r for the current model, though the one I
hired was seven speed. It was an absolutely wonderful bike - stable
and strong as an ox.

Cheers,

Suzy (fietsenophile)


--
suzyj

[dtmeister]

suzyj > wrote:
> It was an absolutely wonderful bike - stable
> and strong as an ox.

Blimey...at 20kg, it should be!


--
..dt

[ghostgum]

suzyj Wrote:
>
> The thing that attracts me to the Avanti Blade is that it's really
> cheap. I couldn't make a bike like that for anywhere near the money.
> Just the hub and shifter alone would be ~$250, and Avanti are selling
> the whole box and dice for $900.
>

I had a look at an Avanti Blade 8 today, and was also shown the
Specialized Crossroads Hub. Some differences.

Avanti Blade 8
28mm wide tyres
fixed head stem
twist grip shifter
bar ends
38T front 16T rear
$1000 RRP?
Specialized
38mm wide tyres
more room for mudguards
adjustable head stem
push lever shifters (although these are reversed from a MTB rear
derailer - hard push goes up a gear, button goes down)
46T front and unknown rear, so I can't compare the gear ratios
$1100 RRP?

The gear range seems to be similar to what you get on a MTB when you
use the middle front chain ring. The Specialized is about $100 more.
Not much choice in colour - hope you like road camouflage grey.

Given my new commuting route along bumpy bike paths, the wider 38mm
tyres are probably a better choice.


--
ghostgum

[Snuffy]

I have a Blade 8 that I ride to work... I'm busy packing at the
moment, so can't write anything specific at the moment, but I'll point
you to something I wrote earlier....

http://www.wurple.net/?p=32

I'll add more thoughts Monday.... :)

[Snuffy]

Yay! It's not Monday and I'm adding something.... couldn't sleep
(excitement about going away this weekend maybe...), so what else to do
but hop onto AB :P

>From my recollection, the info on avanti.nz and avantibikes.com is a
little bit different from the Aussie version of the bikes... there's a
few parts (brakes, wheels, cranks, tyres I think) that are different
between countries....

Other bikes to look at...
- Trek S300 - Very similar price and spec except for a rear coaster
brake....
- Specialized Crossroad Hub - More expensive. Didn't investigate specs
cos I found this after I bought my Blade 8

If you're really picky about your geometry and position, on top of the
things that I put in my review, you might also want to change the
seatpost... I'm no fatso, but the suspension moved a fair bit, which
made it pretty tricky to get my setup just right... although now I
think about it....~700km in, the seatpost has firmed up a fair bit (or
maybe I just got used to it)...

Also, the handlebars are pretty wide... haven't bothered to measure the
B8, but when I went back to my roadie after 4 solid weeks on the B8, I
forgot how to sprint cos I felt all bunched up (I think I have 44cm
bars on my roadie).....

Anyway, better get moving.... *gone for the weekend* :)

[DeF]

suzyj wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I dropped in to Northside Cyclery last night and bought a medium Blade
> Eight.

---- SNIP ----

> All in all, I'm awfully close to commuter nirvana.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
>
>

Well, that should put paid too any desire to
to r*nning then!

I've got a bit of a break from racing so I thought
I'd do some upper body weights this week. Still
can't completely straighten my arms after Tuesday.....

DeF.


--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

[Grazza]

> Well, that should put paid too any desire to
> to r*nning then!
>
> I've got a bit of a break from racing so I thought
> I'd do some upper body weights this week. Still
> can't completely straighten my arms after Tuesday.....
>
> DeF.
>
Duncan, does that mean you're not riding the Bibra Lake 16km TT on Good
Friday? Was looking forward to comparing times with you. This'll be my
first TT in over 25 years!!! I must have forgotten what the pain of riding
a TT can be like. :o)

Graeme

[DeF]

Grazza wrote:
>> Well, that should put paid too any desire to
>> to r*nning then!
>>
>> I've got a bit of a break from racing so I thought
>> I'd do some upper body weights this week. Still
>> can't completely straighten my arms after Tuesday.....
>>
>> DeF.
>>
> Duncan, does that mean you're not riding the Bibra Lake 16km TT on Good
> Friday? Was looking forward to comparing times with you. This'll be my
> first TT in over 25 years!!! I must have forgotten what the pain of riding
> a TT can be like. :o)
>
> Graeme
>
>

Oh, I'll be there alright and I'll be giving it
a red-hot-go. I want to improve on last year's
effort (my first ITT for "many years"). It's just
down the road from where I live so it was a shame
to see the regular Tuesday night TTs disappear a
while back.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

[suzyj]

FD wrote:

> Excellent. be interested to read on your dynamo and
> Inter8 hub trevails over the next years+...

> PS what colour? I'm betting they didnt have one in white!!! :D

They only do it in matte black. So far it's been pretty good. I took
it on a Bikenorth group ride on Sunday and managed to keep up with the
roadies, but spent almost the whole time in 6th, 7th, and 8th gear. It
comes with a 38 tooth chainwheel and an 18 tooth cog, so the gear range
is 30"-91", which is way low. I've got a spare Record track crankset
with a 47 tooth chainwheel that would give me a 37"-113" range, which
should improve matters, except that the bike is stealth black, and
fitting _shiny_ cranks might look a little weird. I see that I can get
Sugino 75's in black though...

Fitting my rack (a tubus stainless one) was a challenge, as the rack
mounts are a long way down (it being a compact frame and all). I ended
up having to make some attachment pieces for the rack from 10mm
aluminium rod.

According to Australia Post, my Nexus dyno hub and light (I splurged
and bought a Schmidt E6) arrived in Sydney this morning, so I should
have them in my hot little hands any day :)

Cheers,

Suzy


--
suzyj

[flyingdutch]

suzyj Wrote:
>
> They only do it in matte black. So far it's been pretty good. I took
> it on a Bikenorth group ride on Sunday and managed to keep up with the
> roadies, but spent almost the whole time in 6th, 7th, and 8th gear. It
> comes with a 38 tooth chainwheel and an 18 tooth cog, so the gear range
> is 30"-91", which is way low. I've got a spare Record track crankset
> with a 47 tooth chainwheel that would give me a 37"-113" range, which
> should improve matters, except that the bike is stealth black, and
> fitting _shiny_ cranks might look a little weird. I see that I can get
> Sugino 75's in black though...
>
> Fitting my rack (a tubus stainless one) was a challenge, as the rack
> mounts are a long way down (it being a compact frame and all). I ended
> up having to make some attachment pieces for the rack from 10mm
> aluminium rod.
>
> According to Australia Post, my Nexus dyno hub and light (I splurged
> and bought a Schmidt E6) arrived in Sydney this morning, so I should
> have them in my hot little hands any day :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy

mmm. matt black. the NEW black... :rolleyes:

PS i saw in C+ a little while back a nifty lil' thingamabob that was
basically a seatpost collar with rack eyelets in it for just such
scenarios

cant find link/info at the mo ...


--
flyingdutch

[petulance]

suzyj wrote:
> They only do it in matte black. So far it's been pretty good. I took
> it on a Bikenorth group ride on Sunday and managed to keep up with the
> roadies, but spent almost the whole time in 6th, 7th, and 8th gear.

Hi Suzy,

Which ride did you do on Sunday? The "medium fitness ride" or the one
out to Parramatta? If you did the former, what was the route? The Bike
North web site doesn't have any details about it.

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:01:17 +1000
suzyj > wrote:
> It was Keith's fitness ride. The website is usually vague about the
> fitness ride entries as they can go anywhere. On Sunday, we started at
> the junction of the M2 and Pennant Hills Road, and simply trundled down
> the M2/M7 to the M4 and back again.

So how fit to be on a fitness ride?

I've been looking at the rides on BNSW site, and they seem to come in
"very slow" and "don't even think about it" with not much in between.

Zebee

[petulance]

suzyj wrote:
> Petulance wrote:
>
> > Which ride did you do on Sunday? The "medium fitness ride"
> > or the one out to Parramatta? If you did the former, what
> > was the route? The Bike North web site doesn't have any
> > details about it.
>
> It was Keith's fitness ride. The website is usually vague about the
> fitness ride entries as they can go anywhere. On Sunday, we started at
> the junction of the M2 and Pennant Hills Road, and simply trundled down
> the M2/M7 to the M4 and back again.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Suzy
>
>

Thanks. Without actually having ridden on the M2/M4/M7, I have to say
it sounds pretty boring from a non-fitness ride point of view.

Hmmm, I have a choice of the "Three Gorges Pie" or "Pie in the Sky
Ride" this weekend.

I want to give my 12-27 cassette a work out (but I really should look
at the chain/deraileur first as it is making a clunking sound in 5th
gear)

[suzyj]

Ghostgum wrote:

> I've also bought an Avanti Blade 8, fitted with the same pedals

Awesome stuff. I built my new Shimano DH-3N71 dynamo hub on the
weekend and fitted it and a Shmidt E6 light to the bike. Last night
was my first after-dark commute with a hub dynamo, and I've gotta say,
I'm impressed. I can't perceive any increase in effort with the dynamo
hub, and it's totally silent. I just get a really good, beautifully
focussed beam of light down the road.

I think the blade eight with a dynamo hub is a really fantastic
combination for commuting. minimal fuss, no need to remember to charge
batteries, minimal maintenance, and it works a treat.

Cheers,

Suzy


--
suzyj

[ghostgum]

suzyj Wrote:
>
> I built my new Shimano DH-3N71 dynamo hub on the weekend and fitted
> it and a Shmidt E6 light to the bike.
>

How much did the hub and light cost? Did you build the wheel
yourself? Could the dynamo be used to power an LED light?


--
ghostgum

[ghostgum]

suzyj Wrote:
> Ghostgum wrote:
> > Could the dynamo be used to power an LED light?
>
> Yes. As a quick and dirty, one can simply rectify the AC from the hub
> and connect a Luxeon-III. You'll only get about 1.5W though, as the hub
> puts out about 500mA RMS. I managed to get a spice model for a Schmidt
> hub (very similar to the Shimano one, but slightly more efficient) and
> am currently working on circuitry to drive my 3W LED.
>
A fellow engineer it seems. Please let me know how it goes.

My searching found a review of several dyno hubs, performed at a
competitor's facility.
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/VBQgenerator.pdf


--
ghostgum

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:28:44 +1000
ghostgum > wrote:
>
> My searching found a review of several dyno hubs, performed at a
> competitor's facility.
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/VBQgenerator.pdf

http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html has some useful info too.

I have one of the german hubs on order, and an LED light to suit.

Should get it after Easter, fingers crossed!

Zebee

[TimC]

On 2006-04-11, suzyj (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Yes. As a quick and dirty, one can simply rectify the AC from the hub
> and connect a Luxeon-III. You'll only get about 1.5W though, as the
> hub puts out about 500mA RMS. I managed to get a spice model for a
> Schmidt hub (very similar to the Shimano one, but slightly more
> efficient) and am currently working on circuitry to drive my 3W LED.

Tee hee hee. Nerd.

I wonder what symbol a hub would be in a GUI interface to spice?

--
TimC
Obviously, "Mother Nature" disagrees with your assessment that money
equates with success. I wonder who will win the argument? -- someone on /.