Mail-order bikes?

[Zix]

Hi all,

Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
mailorder-only company become established yet
that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
of how Dell became a prominent company
in computers via mail order sales, same with
Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
work with bikes?

Thanks.

[Nate Knutson]

Zix wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?
>
> Thanks.

It depends on your definition of good, but at least some of them are
the exact same frames as larger name brands. One example I know of (it
was mentioned here or some other popular board a while ago) is that the
'05 Motobecane Le Champion SL was the same frame as the '04 Fuji Team
SL, either their top end al frame or close to it, and one of the
lightest production al frames. They were selling them with Ultegra and
AmCla wheels for like 1300, and it seemed pretty sweet although I
haven't, yknow, ridden the bike. I don't know how common something like
this is.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?

Mail order/Internet sales are a lot easier for things that don't require
sizing, and for which performance criteria are entirely objective. That
makes it a lot easier for Dell and Gateway to prosper with that business
model; indeed, it's probably an ideal distribution method, since people tend
to know their requirements before shopping, so a website or catalog properly
organized (which is a requirement when you don't have a retail outlook.. and
should be anyway) will pretty much provide the customer with all they need
for a decision. Plus, it's a lot easier to ship a computer than a bike, so
both the initial sale and any subsequent warranty issues are far easier to
handle than with something as unwieldy to ship as a bike.

But I've also hinted at the other big issue... the fact that a lot of what
determines preference in a bike aren't things that can be objectively
measured. How a bike "feels", the effect of one geometry vs another (in
absolute terms), and fit in general can all be difficult to gauge. If you're
buying something identical to what you already have, no problem.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Nate Knutson wrote:
> Zix wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
>> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
>> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
>> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
>> mailorder-only company become established yet
>> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
>> of how Dell became a prominent company
>> in computers via mail order sales, same with
>> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
>> work with bikes?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> It depends on your definition of good, but at least some of them are
> the exact same frames as larger name brands. One example I know of (it
> was mentioned here or some other popular board a while ago) is that
> the '05 Motobecane Le Champion SL was the same frame as the '04 Fuji
> Team SL, either their top end al frame or close to it, and one of the
> lightest production al frames.

Yup... I don't doubt that one at all.

Scott carbon is identical to Fuji carbon... it even has the Scott-identified
patent numbers on them!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

[David L. Johnson]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:10:57 -0700, Zix wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes?

Well, i don't know that its niche is racing, but Habanero, run by
rbt-denizen Mark Hickey, has a fair following and a sound reputation
(deserved, too). I bought mine 4 years ago, and have been completely
satisfied.

Fit is an issue, but those of us who have been riding for many years
know the size we need. You can also pay an LBS for a fitting (a serious
one), and use those numbers.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

[Skippy]

"Zix" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?
>
> Thanks.
>

I find that the added value of going to the LBS is more than worth the
difference. Maybe I have an exceptionally good local shop, but I'd always
go there first. There's more to value than the

Not many people would buy a suit over mail order. Fit and feel vary widely
and are entirely subjective. Even if it's only the saddle that's not quite
right, and that's unlikely, a mail order company is unlikely to do a
straight swap. Then there's the stem, the seatpost, the cassette, the
tyres, the pedals...

Warranty issues are generally a lot better handled by the LBS. Many
manufacturers only warranty bikes that have been built up by a trained
mechanic.

Do you have a full set of tools? Wheel jig? If so, cool. If not, factor
this in to the cost. Your LBS is unlikely to want to sort out the bike.

Also, in the past at least, some mail order bikes have stuck nice bits on a
rather duff frame (say ultegra on a 7000 series aluminium unbutted job).

Finally, if you don't buy from a real shop, they've lost turnover. If they
don't sell enough, they close. If they close...


Just my experience,

Skippy
E&OE

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Zix wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?
>
> Thanks.

Hard to buy a 'bad' bike these days but with a MO bike, a few things to
think about.
No bike fit but not a lot of bike shops do that anyway-Get a fit at a
decent bike shop, use that to determine the proper bike,then buy it
Warranty issues may be diffucult.
Poor assembly may be an issue.

But if you have the dimensions a bike shop can see what fits you. A
good bike shop can also dis and re assemble it to make sure it's OK.
Warranty may be the only problem.

[Steve W]

Not perhaps mail order but Decathalon's bikes always seem to be excellent
value. Worth a look if there is a branch near you.

SW


"Zix" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?
>
> Thanks.
>

[Peter Cole]

Skippy wrote:
> "Zix" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
>> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
>> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
>> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
>> mailorder-only company become established yet
>> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
>> of how Dell became a prominent company
>> in computers via mail order sales, same with
>> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
>> work with bikes?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I find that the added value of going to the LBS is more than worth the
> difference. Maybe I have an exceptionally good local shop, but I'd always
> go there first. There's more to value than the
>

You pay extra for the convenience and expertise. If you like the
convenience and/or need the expertise, then it can be a good deal,
otherwise, not.

> Not many people would buy a suit over mail order. Fit and feel vary widely
> and are entirely subjective. Even if it's only the saddle that's not quite
> right, and that's unlikely, a mail order company is unlikely to do a
> straight swap. Then there's the stem, the seatpost, the cassette, the
> tyres, the pedals...

All the mail-order shops I've used have been very good about
returns/exchanges, they have to be, given the inability to
try-before-buy that's built in to their operational mode.

> Warranty issues are generally a lot better handled by the LBS.

This is sometimes true. I've had pretty good luck doing my own
expediting, though. Many bike accessory companies are pretty savvy in
the customer relations area and bend over backwards for service. I've
had very good experience with Bell, Blackburn, Terry, Topeak and others
-- I've heard positive experiences from other individuals.

> Many
> manufacturers only warranty bikes that have been built up by a trained
> mechanic.

Never heard this.

> Do you have a full set of tools? Wheel jig? If so, cool. If not, factor
> this in to the cost. Your LBS is unlikely to want to sort out the bike.

I've assembled several bikes. The tools I have needed were the same
tools I used to maintain bikes.

Most LBS are quite happy to repair bikes, mail-order, home-built, or
purchased at another LBS.


> Also, in the past at least, some mail order bikes have stuck nice bits on a
> rather duff frame (say ultegra on a 7000 series aluminium unbutted job).

Groups are groups. Frames are about the only distinguishing feature any
more, and there's not much variation there, either. The point of
diminishing returns on frames is quite low since costs are so volume
sensitive. Some people see the frame as the "soul" of the bike, I see it
as just another component (and a not very important one) that may wear
out and get replaced.


> Finally, if you don't buy from a real shop, they've lost turnover. If they
> don't sell enough, they close. If they close...
>

I don't think bike shops need to be subsidized, as long as they fill a
need, they will be around. There will always be a lot more newbies than
experienced cyclists. since so few people stick with it. Newbies do very
well with a LBS, despite the higher margins.

Among experienced cyclists there are many (most?) who have no desire to
fiddle with bicycles, they only want to ride them. Those customers are
willing to pay well for the service.

[[email protected]]

Zix wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
> mailorder-only company become established yet
> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
> of how Dell became a prominent company
> in computers via mail order sales, same with
> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
> work with bikes?
>
> Thanks.

My last four bikes have been mail order. 3 from separate frame/fork
and parts put together by me. Everything mail order. 1 from a
frame/fork and build kit purchased from GVH. GVH was happy to exchange
parts and rebuild the wheels when I complained/asked for changes. Also
happy to change out parts during the initial order. I was able to get
some upgrade parts for minimal extra cost.

If you know what frame size you need, and have a fair amount of bike
mechanic ability, then ordering mail order whether its parts or
complete bikes is a great way to save money.

As for the ads that show complete grouppos on low cost frames, thats
fine. I have a cheap aluminum Nashbar frame and Performance fork with
mostly Centaur components. Bike rides quite well. It didn't beat me
to death on a 220k ride on Saturday. I've discovered that very nice
frames and very cheap frames can all ride very well if they are the
right size and have good parts on them.

One possible problem with mail order is if the geometry of the frame
doesn't really fit what you know you want. Or your ideal frame size is
sort of in the middle of two frames the maker offers. I had this
problem with a Redline Tour frame. The 56 and 58 both looked like they
could fit me. It would have been nice to ride both fully built up and
pick. But that option is not available from even a local shop since no
one would carry this sort of rare bike in every size. Kind of like the
local Trek dealers have just 1 or 2 sizes of the Trek 520 touring bike
available. They can order the other sizes, but there is no test ride
first. I suppose they might not make you buy it first to get it
ordered. But being able to test ride several sizes of bikes in
anything but the most popular models is not likely at local shops.

[Skippy]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Zix wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Lately I've noticed that if I google for bicycle terms
>> the top of the list will often have enticing ads for bikes
>> via mailorder, often with impressive componentry
>> but unfamiliar make. My question is, has any
>> mailorder-only company become established yet
>> that puts out good racing bikes? I am reminded
>> of how Dell became a prominent company
>> in computers via mail order sales, same with
>> Gateway 2000. Surely the same principle could
>> work with bikes?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> My last four bikes have been mail order. 3 from separate frame/fork
> and parts put together by me. Everything mail order. 1 from a
> frame/fork and build kit purchased from GVH. GVH was happy to exchange
> parts and rebuild the wheels when I complained/asked for changes. Also
> happy to change out parts during the initial order. I was able to get
> some upgrade parts for minimal extra cost.
>
> If you know what frame size you need, and have a fair amount of bike
> mechanic ability, then ordering mail order whether its parts or
> complete bikes is a great way to save money.
>
> As for the ads that show complete grouppos on low cost frames, thats
> fine. I have a cheap aluminum Nashbar frame and Performance fork with
> mostly Centaur components. Bike rides quite well. It didn't beat me
> to death on a 220k ride on Saturday. I've discovered that very nice
> frames and very cheap frames can all ride very well if they are the
> right size and have good parts on them.
>
> One possible problem with mail order is if the geometry of the frame
> doesn't really fit what you know you want. Or your ideal frame size is
> sort of in the middle of two frames the maker offers. I had this
> problem with a Redline Tour frame. The 56 and 58 both looked like they
> could fit me. It would have been nice to ride both fully built up and
> pick. But that option is not available from even a local shop since no
> one would carry this sort of rare bike in every size. Kind of like the
> local Trek dealers have just 1 or 2 sizes of the Trek 520 touring bike
> available. They can order the other sizes, but there is no test ride
> first. I suppose they might not make you buy it first to get it
> ordered. But being able to test ride several sizes of bikes in
> anything but the most popular models is not likely at local shops.
>

Am I just very lucky with my LBS? They try hard to have models in most
sizes, if not your exact model, including the 'female-specific' models. If
it isn't in stock it will be generally be ordered for stock and built up for
test. Regular customers even get a reasonable discount. Is this really
unusual?

I know all shops are not created equal but I'd like to think it's worth
hunting round for the good ones. Mail order is great if you know what you
want. How many people really know what's right though? Perhaps race bikes
are reasonable since there isn't that much scope for difference between
manufacturers, especially once you've decided what it's going to be made
from.

I'm probably going to be buying a 'posh' road bike before too long. I know
where my money will go, and I might even a get a cup of tea out of it!

Skippy
E&OE



Skippy
E&OE