How to get ultra stubborn Profile cranks off?

[Sponge]

Hi everyone, I am having *serious* trouble getting my right Profile
crank off the hub, when I was installing it, I put plenty of copper
grease on and aligned it with the spindle perfectly, then it took a lot
of hammer blows to finally smash it on, it was extremely difficult in
itself to get it on even!

Now, I think it's time I get it rebuilt with new spokes, and I'll need
to get the right crank off to do so. Does anyone have any tips or ideas
on how I may take it off? It was probably the most stubborn thing to
get on in the first place, let alone trying to get it off!

I've phoned Profile Europe, and they say that the official Profile
crank tool won't do the job because the axle is fixed in the hub and
that I'll need to take the axle out which I don't want to do. However,
is it possible to get it off any other way? I heard that the Evercraft
bearing puller works, but does it work so that I don't need to remove
the axle or anything?

Thanks v.much for any help :)


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[zippy]

a ball joint remover for a car? it's like a giant tuning fork/chisel you
hammer to separate that part at the bottom of the axle where it
connects below the wheel.

Bearing puller is another suggestion, I got a 2 pin one, but i dunno if
they'd grip.

Then again i never tried any of these and i dunno the risks of damaging
sommat.


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[Sponge]

Cheers dale, but I don't think I can get hold of that thing.

I think it's gotta be something like an Evercraft bearing puller, can
anyone explain to me how this thing works for taking Profile cranks
off? I hope I don't have to remove the spindle out of the hub to use
the bearing puller though :confused:


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Sponge

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[vivalargo]

Are you talking about the crank arm, which connects to your pedal? If
so I know a solution that works every time (I have three unis with
Profile hubs).

JL


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[GhettoSmurf]

crank puller?


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[muzzle]

aren't all profile's stubborn? :P
here's all i know on the subject atm:
1. Remove the crank locking bolt using a long allan key or adaptor on a
socket set.
2. Insert the Profile extraction tool and tap while holding the crank
or use the Evercraft bearing puller when using this use the small side
of the puller and place it over the bulge of the crank.

ok, so i dont know where to get a profile extraction tool from, but
"Evercraft bearing puller" is supposed to work according to this text.


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[vivalargo]

You hammered it on so, in the absense of an industrial strength gear
puller, you have to hammer it off. Here's what I do. Stick a rod or
an old seat post through the spokes from the opposite side and line it
up on the crank arm as close to the hub as you can. Put a thick rag or
a section of newspaper between the rod and the crank arm so you don't
ding or bend the crank. Hammer the crap out of the rod, keeping it
centered on the arm. It WILL come off. I put the wheel on an old
bed--enough support but soft enough to let the crank arm come off.

JL


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[maestro8]

vivalargo wrote:
> Stick a rod or an old seat post through the spokes from the opposite
> side and line it up on the crank arm as close to the hub as you can.


I don't think this is such a good idea... nor is the ball joint
splitter... you're putting forces on the crank at an angle to the axle,
possibly deforming the crank. The damage might not show up right away,
but repeated abuse can weaken the damaged area until you get a "wobble"
in your crank.

The bearing puller would be my second choice of removal tool... I've
been able to remove stubborn cranks by whacking the living crap out of
the Profile removal tool (without displacing the axle), but if that
fails, the bearing puller applies the necessary force to the crank
without threatening any damage.

What you need to realize in using the Profile tool is that it uses the
inertia of the crank to remove itself... you're displacing the hub (by
whacking it through the removal tool) while the crank tries to remain
stationary. Make sure the tool is installed correctly (read the
manual!) and the hub is supported such that the forces of your
hammering are not put on the spokes or wheel... I made a support out of
a couple sections of 2x4 and sat the hub on top of that, then hammered
away.

It doesn't make sense that Profile gave you that advice... their manual
says the installation tool (bolt) can also be used to do removal...

Are you getting any gap between your crank and hub? Have you tried the
removal tool at all? If you can use it to get even the slightest gap,
then you can get the crank all the way off... it just takes some elbow
grease and some patience...


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[unisteez]

maestro8 wrote:
> I don't think this is such a good idea... nor is the ball joint
> splitter... you're putting forces on the crank at an angle to the axle,
> possibly deforming the crank. The damage might not show up right away,
> but repeated abuse can weaken the damaged area until you get a "wobble"
> in your crank.
>



true story


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[forget_your_life]

vivalargo wrote:
> Stick a rod or an old seat post through the spokes from the opposite
> side and line it up on the crank arm as close to the hub as you can.
> Put a thick rag or a section of newspaper between the rod and the crank
> arm so you don't ding or bend the crank. Hammer the crap out of the
> rod, keeping it centered on the arm. It WILL come off. I put the wheel
> on an old bed--enough support but soft enough to let the crank arm come
> off.
>
> JL

ive done that before and it worked, i used a wooden dowl instead of a
rod or seat post though..that way i didnt need the rag...

one thing that is most important is to have the other crank on or you
may hammer the crank off but take the axle with it...so make sure for
what-ever you do to, have the oposite side crank mounted so theaxle
stays put while you remove the stuck one.


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[U-Turn]

John Long and Jagur have it right.

The manual is written for the bike spindle incarnation of the Profile
setup and is misleading to a unicyclist. The bike spindle incarnation
floats the axle and, for this case, it's trivial to remove cranks using
the manual's instructions. This is the setup I have on my prototype 6'
giraffe and it works like a charm.

With the latest Profile -unicycle- hubs, you'd be lucky to move the
axle by pounding on it, which you really don't want to do. Pounding on
the crank from the opposite side with padding is the way.

As far as "the inertia of the crank" being effective, this (again) only
works with a floating axle, which is not the case with the unicycle
hub. With the unicycle hub, the inertia of the entire wheel would come
into play. And honestly, you don't want to mess with the position of
the axle in the hub. It's put on with a high-power press with
extremely tight tolerances, which is why one no longer hears of Profile
hub slop.


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[jake_amos]

Dynamite!!


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[giraffe]

U-Turn wrote:
> The bike spindle incarnation floats the axle and, for this case, it's
> trivial to remove cranks using the manual's instructions. This



so how can i remove my axle? :confused:


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> keep from squashing your nuts!?"
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[U-Turn]

giraffe wrote:
> so how can i remove my axle? :confused:

Are you saying you have a Profile bottom bracket on your giraffe?


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[Sponge]

Erm, I have been thinking of these different methods.. But technically,
couldn't the Profile extraction tool actually work? Because, it's aim
is to smack the axle off the crankarm right? Therefore since the axle
is attached to the hub, and the hub to the spokes and rim, couldn't I
use the Profile crank tool to smack the whole wheel off the crankarm?
If you get what I mean? I hope this could work as I know one or two
BMXers who might have a Profile crank tool they could lend me..

Or am I getting it all wrong?

EDIT: also, i really feel I need to make this clear, but my right
crankarm was probably 10x harder to get on than anyone else's here. I
mean, I coated it in copper grease on the splines, put it on the
spindle straight, and it took literally 100 or more strikes with a
block of wood and mallet to get it on (no jokes). It was really that
hard to get it on..


--
Sponge

interesting thing to note: most top trials unicyclists have ridden
biketrials properly at some point.

Profile-Poznanter: Pimp, Pricey, Stiff, Weak. :rolleyes:

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[forget_your_life]

you got your advice, now get to work :)...your also not the first to
hammer one on or ultimatly use a blow torch to get one off.


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[Sponge]

oh yeah, the blowtorch! It expands the metal doesnt it? Hmm, i'll see if
this works, other than that, is it possible to remove the crank with a
Profile crank tool? Seeing as for the BMX spindle it gets pushed off
the crankarm... couldnt it work for the unicycle hub by pushing the
WHOLE wheel off the crankarm seeing as the spindle is locked in the hub
body?

Lucky Joe Hodges found his Profile crank tool today! :D


--
Sponge

interesting thing to note: most top trials unicyclists have ridden
biketrials properly at some point.

Profile-Poznanter: Pimp, Pricey, Stiff, Weak. :rolleyes:

MSN: feel free to add, I'm always up for a
good chat and get to know other uni riders :)
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[forget_your_life]

for uni's the tool only works for get it half way on, not off.

NO the tool will not work to get your crank off, for the 3 rd time from
the 3rd person...:rolleyes:


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[maestro8]

forget_your_life wrote:
> NO the tool will not work to get your crank off, for the 3 rd time from
> the 3rd person...:rolleyes:


Then can you explain to me how I was able to get my crank of using ONLY
the tool and a rubber mallet? Oh, and all I did was smack the tool a
whole bunch...


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[forget_your_life]

maestro8 wrote:
> Then can you explain to me how I was able to get my crank of using ONLY
> the tool and a rubber mallet? Oh, and all I did was smack the tool a
> whole bunch...


i imagine you pounded the axle through the hub, not ideal or good
machanics.


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[maestro8]

forget_your_life wrote:
> i imagine you pounded the axle through the hub, not ideal or good
> machanics.


The axle didn't budge. I even measured it with calipers. As I banged
away, the crank steadily came away from the hub...


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[U-Turn]

For unicycles the Profile tool is for putting on cranks, not taking them
off.

Use a sledgehammer if you want, it's up to you. Take photos and videos
and post them here; we'll enjoy them.


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[wheeliemaster]

I had profile cranks on one of my BMX bikes many years ago, and guess
what... they are still on the frame! Stubborn indeed.

There is a large variety of pulling tools available for automobile
front suspension applications, you might be able to use something like
a pitman arm puller. These have 2 claw like things that would fit
behind the part you are trying to pull and then you tighten a stud
against the shaft that the arm is pressed onto.


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[john_childs]

See posts '7' (http://tinyurl.com/edgha) and '8'
(http://tinyurl.com/hv7ye) in the thread 'Profile maintenance'
(http://tinyurl.com/3645) for pictures of how I remove my Profile
cranks.

If your cranks are really really tight then you might need to get more
creative. If they are really tight I'd just leave them on and ride
aggressively with them for a couple weeks till they loosen up.

The Profile crank tool is evil. You can use it to remove cranks from a
unicycle hub but you have to do it differently than you would on a
bike. The Profile crank tool is evil because it is very easy to use it
in a way that will damage a unicycle hub. There is no risk of such
damage on a bicycle bottom bracket.

If you insist on using the Profile tool you need to hold the wheel by
the crank and hold the wheel off the ground. Hold the crank with your
left hand with the wheel parallel with the ground. Hold the wheel off
the ground and don't rest it on anything. Thread the Profile crank
tool on the hub as far as you can get it to go. While holding the
crank and wheel with your left hand, use a hammer or mallet in your
right hand to pound on the Profile crank tool.

Be sure to put anti-seize on the threads of the crank tool before
threading it into the hub. Otherwise all the pounding could damage the
threads inside the hub.

Putting a block of wood through the spokes and then pounding on the
block of wood with a mallet/hammer/mini-sledge will also work. That's
the method Jagur and JL suggested.


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[vivalargo]

The reason (I think) the crank arms are so cranky has to do with the
gazillion little splines on the Profile axle/crank arm and the very
tight tolerances when they are brand new, before a little or a lot of
riding has worm them down just that little bit. Every few months I take
mine off, degrease (with an acid solution) and regrease the inside of
the crank arm fitting and the axle, then put them back on. The first
few times are murder, but much easier after that. I've used the
rod/wood/ through the spokes and hammer like hell method every time and
it's never yet ruined anything, but I don't rule out the possibility. I
suspect that if the axle or crank arm is not clean/greased when you put
them on, just that little bit of dirt can make it murder to get them
off the next time.

JL


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[john_childs]

When the Profile cranks and hub are new the splines have sharp peaks and
valleys in the splines because they have been freshly machined. When
you use the cranks the sharp peaks and valleys in the splines wear down
just a bit and the cranks become easier to install and remove.

Also when the cranks are brand new they have some excess paint or
chrome that sometimes gets oversprayed or overplated on the splines.
Using a small wire brush (the size of a tooth brush) to scrape away the
excess paint or chrome in the splines might make the cranks easier to
install and remove while new. I haven't tried the wire brush thing yet
cause I've never thought about it when I had new cranks. It would be
something to try if you can remember to do it before installing the
cranks for the first time.


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