SRAM shifters (suck?), adding XT front derailer

[LIBERATOR]

Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
concern?

Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.

Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.

[Michael Dart]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> concern?
>
> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on
> both, you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other.
> This seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design
> where like Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a
> finger.
>
> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.

That's what I like about them. You can keep that finger on the brake lever
and still shift.

Mike

[user37]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> concern?
>
> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
> you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
> seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
> Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
>
> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.

I've got a question about the XT front derailleur I have, and front
derailleurs in general:

Why do they insist on making the parts that contact the chain out of a
ferrous metal that rusts?
The critical parts seem to be chromed steel, not stainless. The chain
rubs against the chrome, exposes bare metal, and if you live in a wet
climate it soon rusts.

Why don't they use an alloy, or stainless? Cost I suppose...

[Shaun aRe]

"user37" > wrote in message
...
> LIBERATOR wrote:
>> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
>> concern?
>>
>> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
>> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
>> you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
>> seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
>> Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
>>
>> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
>> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
>> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
>
> I've got a question about the XT front derailleur I have, and front
> derailleurs in general:
>
> Why do they insist on making the parts that contact the chain out of a
> ferrous metal that rusts?
> The critical parts seem to be chromed steel, not stainless. The chain rubs
> against the chrome, exposes bare metal, and if you live in a wet climate
> it soon rusts.
>
> Why don't they use an alloy, or stainless? Cost I suppose...

In all my time with bicycles, I have never had that part wear out, and I
live in Lancashire, North England, where it's wet as hell. So what's the
problem?


Shaun aRe

[[email protected]]

You could send me your XO stuff. I'll be pleased to use them. I love
Sram but mine only go to X-9

[cc]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> concern?
>
> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
> you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
> seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
> Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
>
> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
>

If you'd ever ridden a mountain bike, toolbox, then you would realize
that one never has the need to shift up and down simultaneously, and
that the time required to move your thumb from one lever to the other is
trivial.

[Tim]

On 2006-05-24, Shaun aRe lus.com> wrote:
>
> "user37" > wrote in message
> ...
[snip]
>> I've got a question about the XT front derailleur I have, and front
>> derailleurs in general:
>>
>> Why do they insist on making the parts that contact the chain out of a
>> ferrous metal that rusts?
>> The critical parts seem to be chromed steel, not stainless. The chain rubs
>> against the chrome, exposes bare metal, and if you live in a wet climate
>> it soon rusts.
>>
>> Why don't they use an alloy, or stainless? Cost I suppose...
>
> In all my time with bicycles, I have never had that part wear out, and I
> live in Lancashire, North England, where it's wet as hell. So what's the
> problem?
>
>
> Shaun aRe
>
And gritty too when I've ridden in Lancashire. The rate at
which chains and cassettes can be destroyed by gritty mud in the UK is
scary (and it's not even that gritty in my bit of the Midlands).

I've not had a FD cage rust, only discolour slightly. Any rust
staining which has appeared seems to have arised from mud/grit/goo
transferred fro the chain.
--
Tim.

[MC Spammer]

cc says...

> If you'd ever ridden a mountain bike, toolbox, then you would realize
> that one never has the need to shift up and down simultaneously, and
> that the time required to move your thumb from one lever to the other is
> trivial.

Since A.M-B traffic consists almost entirely of the same 20 or so
posters, couldn't we all just agree to ignore this demented troll?

[user37]

Tim wrote:
> On 2006-05-24, Shaun aRe lus.com> wrote:
>> "user37" > wrote in message
>> ...
> [snip]
>>> I've got a question about the XT front derailleur I have, and front
>>> derailleurs in general:
>>>
>>> Why do they insist on making the parts that contact the chain out of a
>>> ferrous metal that rusts?
>>> The critical parts seem to be chromed steel, not stainless. The chain rubs
>>> against the chrome, exposes bare metal, and if you live in a wet climate
>>> it soon rusts.
>>>
>>> Why don't they use an alloy, or stainless? Cost I suppose...
>> In all my time with bicycles, I have never had that part wear out, and I
>> live in Lancashire, North England, where it's wet as hell. So what's the
>> problem?
>>
>>
>> Shaun aRe
>>
> And gritty too when I've ridden in Lancashire. The rate at
> which chains and cassettes can be destroyed by gritty mud in the UK is
> scary (and it's not even that gritty in my bit of the Midlands).
>
> I've not had a FD cage rust, only discolour slightly. Any rust
> staining which has appeared seems to have arised from mud/grit/goo
> transferred fro the chain.

Yes, it won't wear out, just cosmetics, I can live with it :)

Roadsalt's a problem too, it eats parts.
Just wondered why they didn't use a higher spec bit of metal for the
inner cage. Only baremetal exposed by chainrub was rusting, not the
whole inner cage. I recognise your point about rust transfer from the
chain, but after a clean I'm sure I still saw native rust. I could be
wrong, if someone tells me the part literally can't rust I'll believe 'em.

[Marty]

"MC Spammer" > wrote in message
.net...
> cc says...
>
>> If you'd ever ridden a mountain bike, toolbox, then you would realize
>> that one never has the need to shift up and down simultaneously, and
>> that the time required to move your thumb from one lever to the other is
>> trivial.
>
> Since A.M-B traffic consists almost entirely of the same 20 or so
> posters, couldn't we all just agree to ignore this demented troll?

Now where's the fun in that?

[Ride-A-Lot]

MC Spammer wrote:
> cc says...
>
>> If you'd ever ridden a mountain bike, toolbox, then you would realize
>> that one never has the need to shift up and down simultaneously, and
>> that the time required to move your thumb from one lever to the other is
>> trivial.
>
> Since A.M-B traffic consists almost entirely of the same 20 or so
> posters, couldn't we all just agree to ignore this demented troll?


Pffftttt! I actually enjoy the psycho babble. I am just amazed that a
homeless person has the money to actually purchase gear. He's bought
gloves and a derailleur in the last month. Must be using his medication
money that the gubment give him.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

[LIBERATOR]

> Pffftttt! I actually enjoy the psycho babble. I am just amazed that a
> homeless person has the money to actually purchase gear. He's bought
> gloves and a derailleur in the last month. Must be using his medication
> money that the gubment give him.

Now Ride-Sidewalks-Only, I have been nice to you lately, you seem to
want to change that eh?

> --
> o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
> www.schnauzers.ws

[LIBERATOR]

wrote:
> You could send me your XO stuff. I'll be pleased to use them. I love
> Sram but mine only go to X-9

http://www.makingiteasier.org/reviews/2005/06/27/sram_x0_rear_derailleur/

Nice stuff?

[Ride-A-Lot]

LIBERATOR wrote:
>> Pffftttt! I actually enjoy the psycho babble. I am just amazed that a
>> homeless person has the money to actually purchase gear. He's bought
>> gloves and a derailleur in the last month. Must be using his medication
>> money that the gubment give him.
>
> Now Ride-Sidewalks-Only, I have been nice to you lately, you seem to
> want to change that eh?
>

Nice? Hey, when are we going to go riding at Apex? I was in Denver
yesterday looking for you.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

[LIBERATOR]

Michael Dart wrote:
> LIBERATOR wrote:
> > Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> > concern?
> >
> > Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> > your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on
> > both, you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other.
> > This seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design
> > where like Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a
> > finger.
> >
> > Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> > the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> > just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
>
> That's what I like about them. You can keep that finger on the brake lever
> and still shift.
>
> Mike

Think about what you just said. If you could not keep your right 3
fingers on your brake lever, and your index finger on the downshift and
the thumb on the upshift all at one time, you cannot possibly be a good
MTBer.

At one time you should be able to have all 3 manned.

[Llatikcuf]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> concern?
>
> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
> you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
> seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
> Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
>
> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.

I switched to Sram a year ago..... took about two minutes to get used
to. Never looked back.

You like apples, others like oranges - big deal, buy shimano stuff.

-nate

[LIBERATOR]

Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> LIBERATOR wrote:
> >> Pffftttt! I actually enjoy the psycho babble. I am just amazed that a
> >> homeless person has the money to actually purchase gear. He's bought
> >> gloves and a derailleur in the last month. Must be using his medication
> >> money that the gubment give him.
> >
> > Now Ride-Sidewalks-Only, I have been nice to you lately, you seem to
> > want to change that eh?
> >
>
> Nice? Hey, when are we going to go riding at Apex? I was in Denver
> yesterday looking for you.

You never said anything to me, yet you know where I hang and where you
could have sent me an invite. So why didn't you big boy?

[Ride-A-Lot]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Ride-A-Lot wrote:
>> LIBERATOR wrote:
>>>> Pffftttt! I actually enjoy the psycho babble. I am just amazed that a
>>>> homeless person has the money to actually purchase gear. He's bought
>>>> gloves and a derailleur in the last month. Must be using his medication
>>>> money that the gubment give him.
>>> Now Ride-Sidewalks-Only, I have been nice to you lately, you seem to
>>> want to change that eh?
>>>
>> Nice? Hey, when are we going to go riding at Apex? I was in Denver
>> yesterday looking for you.
>
> You never said anything to me, yet you know where I hang and where you
> could have sent me an invite. So why didn't you big boy?
>

Didn't have my bike, but I'll be back real soon and with my bike in tow.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

[Michael Dart]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Michael Dart wrote:
>> LIBERATOR wrote:
>>> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
>>> concern?
>>>
>>> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
>>> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on
>>> both, you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the
>>> other. This seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a
>>> design where like Shimano you can have both down and upshifting
>>> manned by a finger.
>>>
>>> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as
>>> to the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was
>>> expecting in just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano
>>> shifters beat SRAM.
>>
>> That's what I like about them. You can keep that finger on the
>> brake lever and still shift.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Think about what you just said. If you could not keep your right 3
> fingers on your brake lever, and your index finger on the downshift
> and the thumb on the upshift all at one time, you cannot possibly be
> a good MTBer.
>
> At one time you should be able to have all 3 manned.

Yeah, what was I thinking?!!! I really suck at this mtb ****.

Pfffffffffttttttt!!!!

[Craig Brossman]

Michael Dart wrote:
> LIBERATOR wrote:
>> Michael Dart wrote:
>>> LIBERATOR wrote:
>>>> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
>>>> concern?
>>>>
>>>> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
>>>> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on
>>>> both, you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the
>>>> other. This seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a
>>>> design where like Shimano you can have both down and upshifting
>>>> manned by a finger.
>>>>
>>>> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as
>>>> to the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was
>>>> expecting in just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano
>>>> shifters beat SRAM.
>>> That's what I like about them. You can keep that finger on the
>>> brake lever and still shift.
>>>
>>> Mike
>> Think about what you just said. If you could not keep your right 3
>> fingers on your brake lever, and your index finger on the downshift
>> and the thumb on the upshift all at one time, you cannot possibly be
>> a good MTBer.
>>
>> At one time you should be able to have all 3 manned.
>
> Yeah, what was I thinking?!!! I really suck at this mtb ****.
>
> Pfffffffffttttttt!!!!
>
>
>
>

He can judge good mountain bikers, but can't figure out how to install
and set up a front deraillure.

I suppose I suck to, I've never considered the need to both shift up and
down simultaneously. AND I live in Durango, which does not have the
incredibly difficult trails that the front range has.

Apex, give me a break, it is not all difficult even if you didn't need
to stop every 15 feet for another biker or hiker.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado

Owner/Operator of the Pekingnese Ranch.

[LIBERATOR]

Llatikcuf wrote:
> LIBERATOR wrote:
> > Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> > concern?
> >
> > Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> > your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
> > you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
> > seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
> > Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
> >
> > Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> > the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> > just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
>
> I switched to Sram a year ago..... took about two minutes to get used
> to. Never looked back.
>
> You like apples, others like oranges - big deal, buy shimano stuff.
>
> -nate

Well the main deal was is there actually an increase in [rapidity in
shifting] with SRAM rather than Shimano?

[Shaun aRe]

"user37" > wrote in message
...
> Tim wrote:
>> On 2006-05-24, Shaun aRe
>> lus.com> wrote:
>>> "user37" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>> [snip]
>>>> I've got a question about the XT front derailleur I have, and front
>>>> derailleurs in general:
>>>>
>>>> Why do they insist on making the parts that contact the chain out of a
>>>> ferrous metal that rusts?
>>>> The critical parts seem to be chromed steel, not stainless. The chain
>>>> rubs against the chrome, exposes bare metal, and if you live in a wet
>>>> climate it soon rusts.
>>>>
>>>> Why don't they use an alloy, or stainless? Cost I suppose...
>>> In all my time with bicycles, I have never had that part wear out, and I
>>> live in Lancashire, North England, where it's wet as hell. So what's the
>>> problem?
>>>
>>>
>>> Shaun aRe
>> And gritty too when I've ridden in Lancashire. The rate at
>> which chains and cassettes can be destroyed by gritty mud in the UK is
>> scary (and it's not even that gritty in my bit of the Midlands).
>>
>> I've not had a FD cage rust, only discolour slightly. Any rust
>> staining which has appeared seems to have arised from mud/grit/goo
>> transferred fro the chain.
>
> Yes, it won't wear out, just cosmetics, I can live with it :)
>
> Roadsalt's a problem too, it eats parts.
> Just wondered why they didn't use a higher spec bit of metal for the inner
> cage. Only baremetal exposed by chainrub was rusting, not the whole inner
> cage. I recognise your point about rust transfer from the chain, but after
> a clean I'm sure I still saw native rust. I could be wrong, if someone
> tells me the part literally can't rust I'll believe 'em.

It can, it does, but it is only a very thin layer of surface rust that is
constantly rubbed away anyhow. If the cosmetics of that bother you, then you
aren't getting your bike properly dirty enough anyhow! ',;~}~



Shaun aRe - Missing the dirt a lot these days ',;~{~

[Llatikcuf]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
> > LIBERATOR wrote:
> > > Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
> > > concern?
> > >
> > > Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
> > > your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
> > > you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
> > > seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
> > > Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
> > >
> > > Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
> > > the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
> > > just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
> >
> > I switched to Sram a year ago..... took about two minutes to get used
> > to. Never looked back.
> >
> > You like apples, others like oranges - big deal, buy shimano stuff.
> >
> > -nate
>
> Well the main deal was is there actually an increase in [rapidity in
> shifting] with SRAM rather than Shimano?

Huh?

[cc]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> Llatikcuf wrote:
>> LIBERATOR wrote:
>>> Is this a "sensitive" modifcation where special care should be a
>>> concern?
>>>
>>> Also, I tried SRAM X0 and didn't like the fact that you have to use
>>> your thumbs for shifting and can't simultaneously have fingers on both,
>>> you have to use your thumb and can only be on one or the other. This
>>> seems very strange to me that they wouldn't design a design where like
>>> Shimano you can have both down and upshifting manned by a finger.
>>>
>>> Is the difference between SRAM and Shimano, noticeably different as to
>>> the claims I'm hearing? I didn't see the rapidity I was expecting in
>>> just trying the bike in the parking lot. Shimano shifters beat SRAM.
>> I switched to Sram a year ago..... took about two minutes to get used
>> to. Never looked back.
>>
>> You like apples, others like oranges - big deal, buy shimano stuff.
>>
>> -nate
>
> Well the main deal was is there actually an increase in [rapidity in
> shifting] with SRAM rather than Shimano?
>

Why do you care? YOU DON'T OWN A BIKE.

[LIBERATOR]

> > Well the main deal was is there actually an increase in [rapidity in
> > shifting] with SRAM rather than Shimano?
>
> Huh?

If I compare side by side SRAM X0 to Shimano XTR, and simultaneously
shifted, which one will have shifted quicker?

I'm being told SRAM shifts quicker, more rapidity. Is this true in your
eyes?

[Llatikcuf]

LIBERATOR wrote:
> > > Well the main deal was is there actually an increase in [rapidity in
> > > shifting] with SRAM rather than Shimano?
> >
> > Huh?
>
> If I compare side by side SRAM X0 to Shimano XTR, and simultaneously
> shifted, which one will have shifted quicker?
>
> I'm being told SRAM shifts quicker, more rapidity. Is this true in your
> eyes?

The Sram shifts nicely, with a good positive feel. The Shimano shifts
nicely also. I don't see how one would shift faster than the other, all
it does is move the chain. The chain jumping teeth on the cassette is
what makes shifts slow. Try not to get caught up in the marketing
stuff.

-nate