Lights: Do they need to be on the bike?

[Peter McCallum]

I was looking at the Qld TORUM Regs and it seems that the definition of
what you must do when riding at night has changed since the days of the
old Traffic Act.

The new law says that "259. The rider of a bicycle ... must not ride at
night ... unless the bicycle or device, or the rider, displays:
(a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
least 200m from the front of the bicycle or device; and
(b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least
200 m from the rear of the bicycle or device" etc.

So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
you had to have it attached to your bike.

P


--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA
http://bicyclemackay.org.au

[TimC]

On 2006-06-08, Peter McCallum (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> I was looking at the Qld TORUM Regs and it seems that the definition of
> what you must do when riding at night has changed since the days of the
> old Traffic Act.
>
> The new law says that "259. The rider of a bicycle ... must not ride at
> night ... unless the bicycle or device, or the rider, displays:
> (a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
> least 200m from the front of the bicycle or device; and
> (b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least
> 200 m from the rear of the bicycle or device" etc.
>
> So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
> arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
> you had to have it attached to your bike.

Cool. Mind you, the amount of otherwise clued people I have seen with
a light that can't be seen 10m directly behind them because their 1)
batteries have faded; 2) the light is crap; 3) the clothes have
pointed their light in the wrong direction; 4) their clothes have
developed a fold which completely obscures the light; and believe it
or not 5) all of the above simultaneously...

--
TimC
"The application did not fail successfully because of an error"

[ray]

Peter McCallum wrote:
> I was looking at the Qld TORUM Regs and it seems that the definition of
> what you must do when riding at night has changed since the days of the
> old Traffic Act.
>
> The new law says that "259. The rider of a bicycle ... must not ride at
> night ... unless the bicycle or device, or the rider, displays:
> (a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
> least 200m from the front of the bicycle or device; and
> (b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least
> 200 m from the rear of the bicycle or device" etc.
>
> So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
> arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
> you had to have it attached to your bike.
>
> P
>
>
I would vastly prefer the lights to be attached to the bike. If fixed to
the frame, they are not moving laterally or vertically, they are also
pointed in the right direction all of the time, and thus have a much
better chance of being seen.
A light attached to your leg or helmet or anywhere else will inevitably
be pointed all over the place. The law may say that, but I think fairly
clearly good old common sense says otherwise.

[Tamyka Bell]

ray wrote:
> Peter McCallum wrote:
> > I was looking at the Qld TORUM Regs and it seems that the definition of
> > what you must do when riding at night has changed since the days of the
> > old Traffic Act.
> >
> > The new law says that "259. The rider of a bicycle ... must not ride at
> > night ... unless the bicycle or device, or the rider, displays:
> > (a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
> > least 200m from the front of the bicycle or device; and
> > (b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least
> > 200 m from the rear of the bicycle or device" etc.
> >
> > So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
> > arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
> > you had to have it attached to your bike.
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> I would vastly prefer the lights to be attached to the bike. If fixed to
> the frame, they are not moving laterally or vertically, they are also
> pointed in the right direction all of the time, and thus have a much
> better chance of being seen.
> A light attached to your leg or helmet or anywhere else will inevitably
> be pointed all over the place. The law may say that, but I think fairly
> clearly good old common sense says otherwise.

A light attached to the light-mounting strip on my backpack is more
visible than anywhere else on my compact frame, and it points in the
right direction. The backpack doesn't move on my back much at all.

I actually have a light on the seatpost, and a light on the seat stay
as well. The light on the seat stay is off when I'm riding in a
peloton. It's designed to shine up at car drivers and it's pretty
full-on. The light on the seatpost ends up angled down a bit because
of the compact geometry of my bike but it's okay for in a peloton -
there is not enough space to mount a larger, adjustable angle flasher
between the underseat bag and the frame.

Tam

[Tamyka Bell]

monsterman wrote:
> I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> times :(

That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
Sky Blue Kit. Theories?

Tam

[PiledHigher]

Tamyka Bell wrote:
> monsterman wrote:
> > I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> > of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> > the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> > led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> > next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> > one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> > times :(
>
> That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
> become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
> ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
> Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
> leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
> a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
> This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
> Sky Blue Kit. Theories?
>
> Tam

I'm sure it would be amplified further if you start riding around in a
skirt!

[Theo Bekkers]

Tamyka Bell wrote:

> That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I
> suddenly become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait
> or a ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?

Yobbos also wear ponytails, only girls wear their hair loose. Loose hair
defines you as having tits, that's the attraction. :-)

Theo

[monsterman]

PHP code:
--------------------

--------------------
Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>
> Yobbos also wear ponytails, only girls wear their hair loose. Loose
> hair
> defines you as having tits, that's the attraction. :-)
>
> Theo
PHP code:
--------------------

--------------------


you've just ruined TimC's day Theo


--
monsterman

[dave]

Tamyka Bell wrote:
> monsterman wrote:
>
>>I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
>>of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
>>the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
>>led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
>>next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
>>one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
>>times :(
>
>
> That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
> become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
> ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
> Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
> leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
> a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
> This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
> Sky Blue Kit. Theories?
>
> Tam
>

Ummmm long hair == girl (maybe)
girl alive is a better bet for scoring with for bloke in hoonmobile than
girl dead

Doesnt explain why the women are suddenly nice to you tho.

[TimC]

On 2006-06-08, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> monsterman wrote:
>> I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
>> of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
>> the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
>> led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
>> next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
>> one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
>> times :(
>
> That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
> become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
> ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
> Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
> leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
> a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
> This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
> Sky Blue Kit. Theories?

I dunno, but do you reckon it will work for me?


I've already had one arse grope. I gave back the best manly voice I
could.

--
TimC
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.

[TimC]

On 2006-06-08, monsterman (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>>
>> Yobbos also wear ponytails, only girls wear their hair loose. Loose
>> hair
>> defines you as having tits, that's the attraction. :-)
>>
>> Theo
>
> you've just ruined TimC's day Theo

The girls that do fall for me all *do* seem to be of the "bi" variety
:)

--
TimC
Black holes are where God divided by zero. -- Steven Wright

[Peter McCallum]

monsterman > wrote:
> I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> times :(

I remember an article in an American bicycle newsletter where this guy
was complaining about drivers not seeing him despite having one of those
fluro flags, a safety vest, bright coloured helmet, etc. He said that he
started riding with a handgun on his hip and suddenly drivers gave him a
metre or so more space. They seemed to be able to pick out the shape of
the black pistol against his black cycling shorts without any difficulty
at all.

Only in Texas.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA
http://bicyclemackay.org.au

[Jawad Hashem]

oh, thanks for stating the obvious. You're such a good little citizen nazi
child. ANd if the light isn't attached you'll get thrown in prison and
bashed by the nazi cops.

--
"What we're talking about here, is late night, early morning, low
clouds." www.iamthewitness.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
Is Science and Reality still important or has it taken
a backseat to the fictional tales told by western politicians?
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


"Peter McCallum" > wrote in message
om.au...
>I was looking at the Qld TORUM Regs and it seems that the definition of
> what you must do when riding at night has changed since the days of the
> old Traffic Act.
>
> The new law says that "259. The rider of a bicycle ... must not ride at
> night ... unless the bicycle or device, or the rider, displays:
> (a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
> least 200m from the front of the bicycle or device; and
> (b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least
> 200 m from the rear of the bicycle or device" etc.
>
> So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
> arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
> you had to have it attached to your bike.
>
> P
>
>
> --
> Peter McCallum
> Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA
> http://bicyclemackay.org.au

[flyingdutch]

TimC Wrote:
>
> The girls that do fall for me all *do* seem to be of the "bi" variety
> :)
>
> --
> TimC
> Black holes are where God divided by zero. -- Steven Wright

So, to extrapolate, your of the 'Bi(cycle) variety cos you keep
'falling over yourself' :D


--
flyingdutch

[Random Data]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 15:28:20 +1000, ray wrote:

> I would vastly prefer the lights to be attached to the bike. If fixed to
> the frame, they are not moving laterally or vertically, they are also
> pointed in the right direction all of the time, and thus have a much
> better chance of being seen.

If you're on and off all the time but the bike is being left in a
relatively insecure place (eg couriering) then having lights on you isn't
a bad option. I tend to take an "AND" approach when I'm doing significant
night riding - light on bike, light on pack, light on helmet. Front lights
are normally only on the bike for road stuff.

--
Dave Hughes |
Researchers in Fairbanks Alaska announced last week that they have
discovered a superconductor which will operate at room temperature.

[PiledHigher]

TimC wrote:
>
> The girls that do fall for me all *do* seem to be of the "bi" variety
> :)
>
> --
> TimC

We are not going to believe that without photos TimC.

[Travis]

monsterman wrote:
> I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> times :(

Here is what I've got:

Two red led flashers on the back, one on the seatpost and one on the
under-seat bag. Since they don't flash in sync it gives an "up and
down" impression as well as just on and off, which I think is more
noticable.

1 white led flasher at the front.

1 28LED LED torch equivalent to a 5W halogen. (Available from ebay for
about $20 including postage, but don't count on the batteries lasting
more than 45 minutes)

1 5W and 1 10W halogen light set (the one that Torpedo7.com was
flogging a month or two ago for $99NZ.)

Yellow/lime fluoro safety vest with reflective strips. (about $13 at
Bunnings - highly recommended!)

Polaris "Reflecta gloves" from Probikekit.com. They're covered in
reflective bits.
And of course the usual reflective patches, piping, stripes, logos etc
on my clothing and booties (when I wear them).

And everything which isn't reflective is either black or yellow,
providing a good contrast.

Does it work? No. Almost got cleaned up in a roundabout this morning
by someone who obviously just wasn't looking. She saw me after I
banged my hand on her roof though.

Travis

[Gags]

"monsterman" > wrote in
message ...
>
> I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> times :(
>
> --
> monsterman
>
Somewhere in the shed I have got one of those dodgy DIY eye level brake
lights for a car. One of the ones from way back that has a big red "STOP"
in the middle and an orange indicator arrow on each side. I have been
thinking for a while of rigging it up so that it is connected to the bottom
of my backpack or the bike and then rigging it up with a couple of switches
for turning and a microswitch that is connected to my brakes. Only really
thinking of doing it for a bit of a laugh but it might actually be quite
effective......will have to find it and see if all the globes are working
OK.

Gags

[Theo Bekkers]

> "Peter McCallum" wrote
>> So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
>> arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
>> you had to have it attached to your bike.

"Jawad Hashem" wrote
> oh, thanks for stating the obvious. You're such a good little citizen nazi
> child. ANd if the light isn't attached you'll get thrown in prison and
> bashed by the nazi cops.

What the **** was that about?

Theo

[dewatf]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:47:19 +1000, Peter McCallum wrote:

> So these days you can legally attach the light to your clothing, leg,
> arm, helmet or whatever, provided it can be seen for 200m. In the past
> you had to have it attached to your bike.

My reading of the law is that as long as the light is visible for 200m it
doesn't matter where it is attached. The point of the law is that the light
must be visable to other drivers.

dewaf.

[Euan]

dewatf wrote:
> The point of the law is that the light must be visable to other
> drivers.

I'm sure you meant `other road users.' Pedestrians and cyclists need to
see other cyclists as well.
--
Cheers
Euan

[cfsmtb]

Euan Wrote:
>
> I'm sure you meant `other road users.' Pedestrians and cyclists need
> to
> see other cyclists as well.

Exactly! I've unfortunately had a couple of minor bingles at night with
cyclists I couldn't see. After that occured, I thought it wise to
upgrade the lights to a Vista + further white flickies. From another
road users perspective, several truck drivers at a previous job told me
to place a light on the back of my helmet, as from their position in a
cab, they couldn't clearly see the light on the seat post.


--
cfsmtb

[Tamyka Bell]

PiledHigher wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > monsterman wrote:
> > > I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> > > of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> > > the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> > > led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> > > next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> > > one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> > > times :(
> >
> > That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
> > become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
> > ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
> > Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
> > leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
> > a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
> > This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
> > Sky Blue Kit. Theories?
> >
> > Tam
>
> I'm sure it would be amplified further if you start riding around in a
> skirt!

Precisely the reason my new bike is a step-thru!

Tam

[Tamyka Bell]

dave wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > monsterman wrote:
> >
> >>I'm lit up like a christmas tree these days. Two red flashers on back
> >>of helmet, a strobing 10 bulb led flasher off the seat post, glow in
> >>the dark safety flashing ankle strap on the drivetrain side with abt 8
> >>led flashers positioned around the strapping, 5 led flasher on the bars
> >>next to a 10w vistalite. I suspect I've been the source of more than
> >>one UFO sighting in recent weeks. And i still feel unsafe / unseen at
> >>times :(
> >
> >
> > That leads me to one of the great mysteries of our time: why I suddenly
> > become more visible when I don't tie my hair back in a plait or a
> > ponytail, but instead leave it loose. I mean, what's with that?
> > Suddenly no one gets into the argy-bargy with me - instead, drivers
> > leave adequate room and they even wind their windows down at lights for
> > a chat; pedestrians call out to cheer me on as I ride along the road.
> > This mysterious transition is further amplified by the inclusion of my
> > Sky Blue Kit. Theories?
> >
> > Tam
> >
>
> Ummmm long hair == girl (maybe)
> girl alive is a better bet for scoring with for bloke in hoonmobile than
> girl dead

Not this girl. Loser in hoonmobile only gonna score if I'm dead. (Ew.)

> Doesnt explain why the women are suddenly nice to you tho.

They don't feel threatened ;)

Tam