Cycling to work banned

[James Annan]

Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a Govt
funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is somewhat obscure)
scientific research lab in Japan (http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/eng/).
The main goal of the lab is the understanding and prediction of climate
change, and it issues plenty of warm fuzzy statemente about "Protecting
our Mother Earth", but when the bureaucratic chips are down, it seems
that it is more important to issue diktats and invent rules to outlaw
one of the most environmentally-friendly behaviours possible.

The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person riding
on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included tandems in the
prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger is very common, and
of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense anyway.) Some
prefectures have actually changed the law to allow tandems, but
unfortunately not the one where we live and work.

Anyway, we rode a tandem before we came to Japan, and continued after
our arrival a few years ago. Some bureaucrat noticed this immediately,
and made disapproving noises, but we ignored him - he refused to give us
an official FRSGC badge for the bike, but we found this apparent
reprimand surprisingly easy to cope with. Three years later, and he (or
perhaps some replacement) is back with a vengeance. He has insisted that
we cannot continue to ride the tandem to work. If we continue, he will
ban all cycling for all members of staff. The justification for this
escalation (and whether is it in principle legally possible) is not
clear, and we haven't told any other cyclists yet. We don't want to stop
riding the tandem, as it is faster, safer and easier than riding single
bikes, and more fun too. People recognise us on our regular route, and
are friendly towards us, plus we've got a good tandem (um...3 tandems)
and no suitable single bikes. Every day we pass the same police boxes,
we have even met some policemen and of course they are not bothered
about us "flouting" such a petty, trivial and obviously accidental law.

In Japan (in a clear contrast with the UK), the commute to work is
partly the responsibility of the employer. For instance, an injury
during the commute counts as a industrial accident, and the employer
must pay for subsequent medical bills and sick pay (the latter which for
non-work-related injury and illness does not appear to be a statutory
requirement, or even part of our generally reasonable working
conditions). It is not clear to me why this responsibility should give
them the right to dictate methods of travel to work, but I have heard of
another company where driving to work was banned, and someone was fired
after having a crash and getting caught.

In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
received.

James

[Ryan Ginstrom]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...
> Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened.

Interesting situation.

If the person has the power to send you packing, and you really want to
stay, then I'd suck it up and pony up for some mama charis.

If he's just all talk, I'd continue to tell him to **** off. But just be
polite about it (I'll talk it over with my wife, I need to consider my
finances, ad infinitum)

--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom

[Brett Robson]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:15:29 +0900, James Annan ...
>

I can't give you any advice but only the observation that you won't get a reason
for this decision. The first "reason" is this is the policy. If you press the
point you might get "the decision was made after due consideration etc", then
possibly "we are concerned about your safety". You are very unlikely to be told
it is because of insurance etc...




..

----

someone who wants junk mail

[Dick Muhfukkin Bagswing]

Sorry but I have no hints or tips. Only this observation.

Of all the retarded things I have heard and/or faced since I have been in
this wonderful(I really think so,too)country....this is without a doubt
Number One on the Corky chart.........with a bullet!


Brian

[Thomas]

<snippety snip>

> Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.

Hmm, difficult one. Personally, I'd comply when commuting to work - no use
bringing your employer and colleagues into the slinging match.

Then start getting arsey: have people take photos and videos of the pair of
you on the tandem; write Haiku poetry dedicated to your love of cycling
during the beautiful seasons, what with the falling leaves 'n' all; hell,
get dedications of tandem cycling love from the natives. Do all this, bundle
up a big package and send it to the beaurocrat on a weekly basis.

Then, once the guy's sufficiently vitriolic, sneak on him to his boss.

Either way, should be fun.

Tom.

[Stephen \(aka steford\)]

James Annan wrote:
> Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a
> Govt funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is somewhat
> obscure) scientific research lab in Japan
> (http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/eng/). The main goal of the lab is
> the understanding and prediction of climate change, and it issues
> plenty of warm fuzzy statemente about "Protecting our Mother Earth",
> but when the bureaucratic chips are down, it seems that it is more
> important to issue diktats and invent rules to outlaw one of the most
> environmentally-friendly behaviours possible.
>
> The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
> criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
> seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
> drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person riding
> on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included tandems in the
> prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger is very common,
> and of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense anyway.) Some
> prefectures have actually changed the law to allow tandems, but
> unfortunately not the one where we live and work.
>
--snip
>
> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss
> gets sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my
> share of trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any
> more). Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to
> leave. But I don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths
> trying to push me around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy
> will be gratefully received.
>
As much as I love Japan the odd bit off petty bureacracy can put you off an
entire nation. My friend once got told to cycle on the pavement not on the
road which was fun and a pal of mine practicing keepie-ups in the middle of
an empty public football pitch got told to clear off by a guy in a uniform
and hat deployed specifically for such incidents it seems.
I'd just keep riding the thing. Have a talk with your local labour office
who were very supportive when I worked in Fukuoka. If it's more then a work
issue then I have no idea what you can do other than keep riding until
forced off the bike by the self defence force.

[Bill Robertson]

James Annan wrote:
[...]
> Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.

Not sure about sensible, but you've got 3 tandems: how about riding one
each for a while to make the point?

- Bill -

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:57:31 -0000, in
>, "Thomas" <tom [at]
greysheep [dot] co [dot] uk> wrote:

><snippety snip>
>
>> Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
>> received.
>
>Hmm, difficult one. Personally, I'd comply when commuting to work - no use
>bringing your employer and colleagues into the slinging match.

I have no idea of Japanese law. Where does your commute start from?
Does it start from the address held by your employer, or can your
commute start from a point 25m away from the factory gates?

Can you ride your tandem from home to that 25m point?
--
I remember when the internet was only in black & white.
It only had a few pages but at least they all worked.
Email: Put only the word "richard" before the @ sign.

[Clive George]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...

<a sorry tale>

Boo, hiss, bunch of ******s, etc. Erm, sorry, can't come up with any helpful
suggestions.

(how about riding the s+s one and taking it apart?)

cheers,
clive

[dwb]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...

> Anyway, we rode a tandem before we came to Japan, and continued after
> our arrival a few years ago. Some bureaucrat noticed this immediately,
> and made disapproving noises, but we ignored him - he refused to give us
> an official FRSGC badge for the bike, but we found this apparent
> reprimand surprisingly easy to cope with. Three years later, and he (or
> perhaps some replacement) is back with a vengeance. He has insisted that
> we cannot continue to ride the tandem to work. If we continue, he will
> ban all cycling for all members of staff. The justification for this
> escalation (and whether is it in principle legally possible) is not
> clear, and we haven't told any other cyclists yet.

Can't you just park it round the corner and walk the last bit?

[Peter Fox]

Following on from James Annan's message. . .
[Bizarre story of Little Togo trying to ban cycling to work snipped]


Why not organise the other cyclists. Find as many tandems as you can
(you already have 3) get the other cyclists on-board them and swoop
after getting the TV involved. Have the other cyclists on ordinary
bikes who won't fit on a tandem. (Or a uni-cycle - That should bust the
blood vessels of the pea-brain bureaucrat.)

Your fellow cyclists are your best allies, and the TV coverage should
rub it in. I suspect that there will be plenty of people who hate
Little Togo's guts and won't be sorry to see him taken down a notch or
two.

My knowledge of Japanese culture is slim but it might be an idea to hint
to fellow cyclists that you have already been contacted by a _foreign_
TV station that wants to run the story about the 'stupidity of little
yellow people' and it might be an idea to deal with it now and locally
otherwise it will become another stick to hit them with. There is
plenty enough in this story to make it journalistically worth-while.


[Anyway you need protection - It's not right - The little people being
bullied like this - I have this vision of 'The Seven Tandemi' - what an
epic film that'll make... First collect your Tandemii - The old boy
found gently mending punctures outside his hut through to the kid with
the mongrel bike built from salvaged parts and held together with bits
of bent wire. Second the spiritual part - The practising the exact arm
signals, greasing the chain, truing the wheels, polishing the h****ts
and putting anti-mist on goggles. Third putting on the fighting gear -
Lycra, raincapes and cycle clips. Finally they all die violently in a
cinematic maelstrom.]

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded

www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm Witham Cycling Campaign
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides East Anglian Pub cycle rides

[Simon Brooke]

James Annan > writes:

> The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
> criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
> seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
> drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person riding
> on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included tandems in the
> prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger is very common,
> and of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense anyway.) Some
> prefectures have actually changed the law to allow tandems, but
> unfortunately not the one where we live and work.

Would the solution not be for one of you to get off a hundred yards
from the gate, and for one to arrive a single rider on a single
(tandem) bike and the other to arrive on foot? Face saved, no problem,
Herbert-from-security San. Sayonara.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Windows 95:
You, you, you! You make a grown man cry...
M. Jagger/K. Richards

[PK]

"Peter Fox" > wrote in
message ...
>
> [Anyway you need protection - It's not right - The little people being
> bullied like this - I have this vision of 'The Seven Tandemi' -

Is that 7 tandems or 3 tandems and a tag-along?

pk

[Duke of URL]

In ,
James Annan > radiated into the
WorldWideWait:

> Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a
> Govt funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is
> somewhat obscure) scientific research lab in Japan
> (http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/eng/). The main goal of the lab is
> the understanding and prediction of climate change, and it issues
> plenty of warm fuzzy statemente about "Protecting our Mother
> Earth", but when the bureaucratic chips are down, it seems that it
> is more important to issue diktats and invent rules to outlaw one
> of the most environmentally-friendly behaviours possible.
>
> The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
> criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
> seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
> drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person
> riding on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included
> tandems in the prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger
> is very common, and of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense
> anyway.) Some prefectures have actually changed the law to allow
> tandems, but unfortunately not the one where we live and work.
>
> Anyway, we rode a tandem before we came to Japan, and continued
> after our arrival a few years ago. Some bureaucrat noticed this
> immediately, and made disapproving noises, but we ignored him - he
> refused to give us an official FRSGC badge for the bike, but we
> found this apparent reprimand surprisingly easy to cope with. Three
> years later, and he (or perhaps some replacement) is back with a
> vengeance. He has insisted that we cannot continue to ride the
> tandem to work. If we continue, he will ban all cycling for all
> members of staff. The justification for this escalation (and
> whether is it in principle legally possible) is not clear, and we
> haven't told any other cyclists yet. We don't want to stop riding
> the tandem, as it is faster, safer and easier than riding single
> bikes, and more fun too. People recognise us on our regular route,
> and are friendly towards us, plus we've got a good tandem (um...3
> tandems) and no suitable single bikes. Every day we pass the same
> police boxes, we have even met some policemen and of course they
> are not bothered about us "flouting" such a petty, trivial and
> obviously accidental law.
>
> In Japan (in a clear contrast with the UK), the commute to work is
> partly the responsibility of the employer. For instance, an injury
> during the commute counts as a industrial accident, and the employer
> must pay for subsequent medical bills and sick pay (the latter
> which for non-work-related injury and illness does not appear to be
> a statutory requirement, or even part of our generally reasonable
> working conditions). It is not clear to me why this responsibility
> should give them the right to dictate methods of travel to work,
> but I have heard of another company where driving to work was
> banned, and someone was fired after having a crash and getting
> caught.
>
> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept
> here and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a
> fuss gets sent home in short order (I have already caused more than
> my share of trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start
> any more). Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush
> to leave. But I don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths
> trying to push me around. Any hints and tips for a sensible
> strategy will be gratefully received.

He must have a boss and that boss must have a boss and...
Keep going up with appointments wherein you point out that this is
abysmal stupidity.
It's just the sort of story that newspapers would love, especially
with all names & titles & quotes (when I do something like this, I
have a microrecorder running in my breast pocket).

[Zog The Undeniable]

James Annan wrote:
> Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a Govt
> funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is somewhat obscure)
> scientific research lab in Japan

Cruel race ;-)

[Michael Cash]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:15:29 +0900, James Annan
> brought down from the Mount tablets
inscribed:

>Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a Govt
>funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is somewhat obscure)
>scientific research lab in Japan (http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/eng/).
>The main goal of the lab is the understanding and prediction of climate
>change, and it issues plenty of warm fuzzy statemente about "Protecting
>our Mother Earth", but when the bureaucratic chips are down, it seems
>that it is more important to issue diktats and invent rules to outlaw
>one of the most environmentally-friendly behaviours possible.
>
>The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
>criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
>seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
>drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person riding
>on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included tandems in the
>prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger is very common, and
>of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense anyway.) Some
>prefectures have actually changed the law to allow tandems, but
>unfortunately not the one where we live and work.
>
>Anyway, we rode a tandem before we came to Japan, and continued after
>our arrival a few years ago. Some bureaucrat noticed this immediately,
>and made disapproving noises, but we ignored him - he refused to give us
>an official FRSGC badge for the bike, but we found this apparent
>reprimand surprisingly easy to cope with. Three years later, and he (or
>perhaps some replacement) is back with a vengeance. He has insisted that
>we cannot continue to ride the tandem to work. If we continue, he will
>ban all cycling for all members of staff. The justification for this
>escalation (and whether is it in principle legally possible) is not
>clear, and we haven't told any other cyclists yet. We don't want to stop
>riding the tandem, as it is faster, safer and easier than riding single
>bikes, and more fun too. People recognise us on our regular route, and
>are friendly towards us, plus we've got a good tandem (um...3 tandems)
>and no suitable single bikes. Every day we pass the same police boxes,
>we have even met some policemen and of course they are not bothered
>about us "flouting" such a petty, trivial and obviously accidental law.
>
>In Japan (in a clear contrast with the UK), the commute to work is
>partly the responsibility of the employer. For instance, an injury
>during the commute counts as a industrial accident, and the employer
>must pay for subsequent medical bills and sick pay (the latter which for
>non-work-related injury and illness does not appear to be a statutory
>requirement, or even part of our generally reasonable working
>conditions). It is not clear to me why this responsibility should give
>them the right to dictate methods of travel to work, but I have heard of
>another company where driving to work was banned, and someone was fired
>after having a crash and getting caught.
>
>In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
>unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
>and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
>sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
>trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
>Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
>don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
>around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
>received.

Okay....now I get it.

Short answer is that both you and your employer are being obstinate
asses, though they do come off looking slightly better than you. How
do you think it looks for a quasi-governmental agency to have their
employees breaking the law on their commute to work every day?

Advice:

1. Get two bicycles
2. Get your ass off your shoulders
3. Give us all this from the beginning instead of this roundabout
bull****





--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[Tony Raven]

James Annan wrote:
>
> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
> sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
> trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
> Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
> don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
> around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.
>

Welcome to the Japanese culture I came to love so much. What you need is a
good Japanese friend of standing who can "negotiate" with the official causing
you problems. It can be solved but remember "the nail that stands out will be
hammered down" so don't try aggression or disobedience - it doesn't work in
the way it might in England and you will just get a hardening of attitudes.
The phrase you need is "go with the flow". It needs to be negotiated by a
respected Japanese in Japanese (using all the subtleties of the language which
only native speakers have mastered).

Ganbatte!

Tony

[Danny Colyer]

Peter Fox suggested:
> Why not organise the other cyclists. Find as many tandems as you can
> (you already have 3) get the other cyclists on-board them and swoop
> after getting the TV involved. Have the other cyclists on ordinary
> bikes who won't fit on a tandem. (Or a uni-cycle - That should bust
> the blood vessels of the pea-brain bureaucrat.)

I'm not sure the unicycle would cause as many eyelids to bat in Japan as
in the UK. Japan produces some of the best unicyclists in the world and
it's not uncommon for Japanese children to receive unicycling lessons at
school.

Sounds like a good idea though (as does teaching kids to ride unicycles
at school).

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

[Q.]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...
> Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened. This is at a Govt
> funded (quasi-independent, the management structure is somewhat obscure)
> scientific research lab in Japan (http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frsgc/eng/).
> The main goal of the lab is the understanding and prediction of climate
> change, and it issues plenty of warm fuzzy statemente about "Protecting
> our Mother Earth", but when the bureaucratic chips are down, it seems
> that it is more important to issue diktats and invent rules to outlaw
> one of the most environmentally-friendly behaviours possible.
>
> The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist
> criminals. Yes, we ride a tandem (we both work at the same lab). It
> seems that way back in the mists of time, some careless bureaucrat
> drafted a law that was intended to prevent more than one person riding
> on a standard bicycle, but which accidentally included tandems in the
> prohibition. (Despite the law, carrying a passenger is very common, and
> of course no-one enforces such a petty nonsense anyway.) Some
> prefectures have actually changed the law to allow tandems, but
> unfortunately not the one where we live and work.
>
> Anyway, we rode a tandem before we came to Japan, and continued after
> our arrival a few years ago. Some bureaucrat noticed this immediately,
> and made disapproving noises, but we ignored him - he refused to give us
> an official FRSGC badge for the bike, but we found this apparent
> reprimand surprisingly easy to cope with. Three years later, and he (or
> perhaps some replacement) is back with a vengeance. He has insisted that
> we cannot continue to ride the tandem to work. If we continue, he will
> ban all cycling for all members of staff. The justification for this
> escalation (and whether is it in principle legally possible) is not
> clear, and we haven't told any other cyclists yet. We don't want to stop
> riding the tandem, as it is faster, safer and easier than riding single
> bikes, and more fun too. People recognise us on our regular route, and
> are friendly towards us, plus we've got a good tandem (um...3 tandems)
> and no suitable single bikes. Every day we pass the same police boxes,
> we have even met some policemen and of course they are not bothered
> about us "flouting" such a petty, trivial and obviously accidental law.
>
> In Japan (in a clear contrast with the UK), the commute to work is
> partly the responsibility of the employer. For instance, an injury
> during the commute counts as a industrial accident, and the employer
> must pay for subsequent medical bills and sick pay (the latter which for
> non-work-related injury and illness does not appear to be a statutory
> requirement, or even part of our generally reasonable working
> conditions). It is not clear to me why this responsibility should give
> them the right to dictate methods of travel to work, but I have heard of
> another company where driving to work was banned, and someone was fired
> after having a crash and getting caught.
>
> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
> sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
> trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
> Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
> don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
> around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.

It sounds like the boss has some good reasons for his decision ... not
great, but good. I'm sure he doesn't appreciate a foreigner trying to push
him around either.

If his beef is that the company may be responsible for you while you're
commuting to work, couldn't you relieve the company of this burden? Have a
lawyer draw up some legal jive saying you exempt the company from any
responsibilities outside of work.

If you feel that strongly about it, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind giving
up your medical coverage in case of an accident, or any kind of benefits you
would receive if injured while commuting.

C.Q.C.

[Orienteer]

From my experience of Japanese culture, the solution is to find a way that
doesn't involve 'loss of face' to the Japanese involved. Therefore parking
the bike round the corner, but well out of sight, seems the best solution.

[Simonb]

Orienteer wrote:
> From my experience of Japanese culture, the solution is to find a way
> that doesn't involve 'loss of face' to the Japanese involved.
> Therefore parking the bike round the corner, but well out of sight,
> seems the best solution.

How would this solve anything?

The firm is unwilling to allow him to ride his tandem to work because they
do not want to be held liable for any accident that may result on his
commute.

Simon

[Louise Bremner]

Danny Colyer > wrote:

> Peter Fox suggested:
> > Why not organise the other cyclists. Find as many tandems as you can
> > (you already have 3) get the other cyclists on-board them and swoop
> > after getting the TV involved. Have the other cyclists on ordinary
> > bikes who won't fit on a tandem. (Or a uni-cycle - That should bust
> > the blood vessels of the pea-brain bureaucrat.)
>
> I'm not sure the unicycle would cause as many eyelids to bat in Japan as
> in the UK. Japan produces some of the best unicyclists in the world and
> it's not uncommon for Japanese children to receive unicycling lessons at
> school.

Yup--it's seen by primary schools as a great way to train balance in
kids, within a relatively small space. But for some reason it's only the
girls who are confident enough to practice outside of school.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Louise Bremner]

James Annan > wrote:

> People recognise us on our regular route, and
> are friendly towards us, plus we've got a good tandem (um...3 tandems)
> and no suitable single bikes. Every day we pass the same police boxes,
> we have even met some policemen and of course they are not bothered
> about us "flouting" such a petty, trivial and obviously accidental law.

Idle thoughts.... You could discuss this with the various policemen you
pass on your route, and ask them if they consider you to be a danger on
the road (although maybe they'll try not to get involved with this).

There used to be a Gaikokujin Komarigoto Sodan****su run by the police,
at 03-3503-8484 (don't know if it's still there, and I'm reluctant to
ring just to check), so you could discuss it with them.

Tell the bureaucrat that you don't have regular bikes, so bill him for
two....

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Louise Bremner]

Bill Robertson > wrote:

> James Annan wrote:
> [...]
> > Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> > received.
>
> Not sure about sensible, but you've got 3 tandems: how about riding one
> each for a while to make the point?

Since it's technically illegal to ride a tandem, wouldn't it still be
illegal if there's only one person on it? (How controllable is a tandem
ridden by one person, anyway?)

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Darin McGrew]

Bill Robertson > wrote:
> > Not sure about sensible, but you've got 3 tandems: how about riding one
> > each for a while to make the point?

Louise Bremner > wrote:
> Since it's technically illegal to ride a tandem, wouldn't it still be
> illegal if there's only one person on it?

My guess is that the law in question prohibits two people riding a bike (of
any configuration), since supposedly it was intended to prohibit doubling
up on a single bike, and prohibiting tandems was merely an unintended side
effect. But IANAL, and I know nothing about Japanese law.

> (How controllable is a tandem ridden by one person, anyway?)

The first time my wife and I rode a tandem, I was encouraged by the bike
shop owner to ride the tandem by myself for a while to get the hang of it.
It's a bit unwieldy compared with riding a single bike, but it's easier
than riding a tandem with a stoker.
--
Darin McGrew, , http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/

"If a man speaks in a forest and no woman is there to hear him,
is he still wrong?"

[Louise Bremner]

Darin McGrew > wrote:

> Louise Bremner > wrote:
> > Since it's technically illegal to ride a tandem, wouldn't it still be
> > illegal if there's only one person on it?
>
> My guess is that the law in question prohibits two people riding a bike (of
> any configuration), since supposedly it was intended to prohibit doubling
> up on a single bike, and prohibiting tandems was merely an unintended side
> effect. But IANAL, and I know nothing about Japanese law.

I'm shaky on it too, since it clearly doesn't prevent the doubling (and
trebling and quadrupling) involved when a mother has one or more
children on the bike with her....
>
> > (How controllable is a tandem ridden by one person, anyway?)
>
> The first time my wife and I rode a tandem, I was encouraged by the bike
> shop owner to ride the tandem by myself for a while to get the hang of it.
> It's a bit unwieldy compared with riding a single bike, but it's easier
> than riding a tandem with a stoker.

Don't know what a "stoker" is in this context. Maybe I'm better off not
knowing, since I never really learnt to ride a bike myself?

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Darin McGrew]

Darin McGrew > wrote:
>> The first time my wife and I rode a tandem, I was encouraged by the bike
>> shop owner to ride the tandem by myself for a while to get the hang of it.
>> It's a bit unwieldy compared with riding a single bike, but it's easier
>> than riding a tandem with a stoker.

Louise Bremner > wrote:
> Don't know what a "stoker" is in this context. Maybe I'm better off not
> knowing, since I never really learnt to ride a bike myself?

On a tandem, the person in the front is the captain, and the person in the
back is the stoker.
--
Darin McGrew, , http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, , http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with the software."

[mr.sumo snr.]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...
>
> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
> sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
> trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
> Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
> don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
> around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.
>

Why not tell him: "No UKlander ever needs a 'permission slip' to ride a
tandem bicycle"

Also works for empire-building.



--
jonathan
--
"Never give a permission slip to ducks"

[cc]

"James Annan" > wrote in message

> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off,

Pfff....
That took about 20 years to stronger than you to make English administration
allow normal cars (designed to drive on the right side of the road) to drive
there without paying ransoms to insurances. At that time a friend was told
by her employer to take the bus -and not be paid any extra for the lost
time-until she pass the licence for inverted cars (at her expenses).

>Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.

A hint : In circus, they show bears riding tandems. People smile at them.
Does it mean an employer would be happy to be know as the guy that has the 2
funny gaigin bears ?

I'm exagerating, but not much. They are concerned with the image given by
employees, not only inside the workplace but around it. Because people in
the street can see you arrive to work. Many people that wear uniform at work
(policemen, bank employees, etc) are asked to wear suits to arrive at work,
just for that reason. Companies have the legal right to impose dress code in
such conditions. They can ban jeans, shorts, tandems...Are you sure you
never signed a contract with a line about that ?

I have worked with a character that used a skate-board to commute. He'd
make a little figure just in front of the elevator. People were all smiling,
sometimes applauding. But in 3 days, more than 20 persons (working in the
building, customers, other staff and even total strangers...) complained,
not to him, but to the boss. We told him to stop 3 blocks before the
building and to put the board in a bag. Never heard of the problem again.
IMHO, if you parked your tandem about 1 or 2 km away from your working
place, out of sight, they wouldn't care. If you live in the same
neibourhood, you should consider moving to be free to do what you want in
your area.

CC

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:15:29 +0900 in rec.bicycles.soc, James
Annan > wrote:

> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
> sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
> trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
> Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
> don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
> around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
> received.
>
find out who his enemies are who have enough power to get rid of
him... might be hard for a gaijin to do, though.

i can't understand why you would possibly want to work in an
organization that allows such anal repressives to control things.
if it was me, i'd get on my bike and leave. for good.

[Simon Brooke]

"Simonb" > writes:

> Orienteer wrote:
> > From my experience of Japanese culture, the solution is to find a way
> > that doesn't involve 'loss of face' to the Japanese involved.
> > Therefore parking the bike round the corner, but well out of sight,
> > seems the best solution.
>
> How would this solve anything?
>
> The firm is unwilling to allow him to ride his tandem to work because they
> do not want to be held liable for any accident that may result on his
> commute.

Yes, but that isn't what 'face' is about. Herbert-from-security San
has made his decree. He can't back down, because that would be to lose
face. But he probably doesn't actually care that much about it, so
provided you don't rub his nose in it you can probably get away with
it. Just don't let him see two of you actually on the tandem at the
same time.

The 'two tandems to work' solution might be a goer - after all, you've
got three - but I would consult with Japanese friends first because
although clearly technically legal it might be seen as
provocative. But the 'park the bike round the corner' solution, or the
'one of you gets off 100 metres from the gate' solution should both be
fine. What the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over.


Ride tandem to work
is forbidden. Solution?
travel to nearby.


--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
/-\ You have discovered a security flaw in a Microsoft product. You can
|-| report this issue to our security tesm. Would you like to
| | * Be completely ignored (default)?
| | * Receive a form email full of platitudes about how much we care?
\_/ * Spend hours helping us fix this problem for free?

[Dave Larrington]

Louise Bremner wrote:

> (How controllable is a tandem ridden by one
> person, anyway?)

Back in my days as a Penniless Student Oaf, the then-Editor of the college
paper was frequently to be observed riding solo around South Kensington on a
tandem. At least once I saw him doing so from the stoker's position too,
though /that/ didn't look terribly controllable.

The one time I tried it I got terrible wheelspin trying to climb a short
sharp incline in the wet.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[James Annan]

Michael Cash wrote:


> Advice:
>
> 1. Get two bicycles
> 2. Get your ass off your shoulders
> 3. Give us all this from the beginning instead of this roundabout
> bull****

As always, Michael Cash provides the most helpful advice, so I will tag
a general reply onto his comments.

I don't think that hiding the tandem out of sight is likely to work for
long. For the past two years we have been effectively operating under a
"don't ask, don't tell" system with them refusing to give us an official
"permit to park at work" sticker and us just parking there without the
permit. It's clear that for some reason someone has decided that this is
no longer acceptable. There is a suitable place nearby to park
off-premises, but a large red tandem is pretty hard to hide and some
busybody would be sure to snitch. I also doubt that many of the legal
evasions would work, a govt organisation will not be able to sign away
its responsibilities so easily, and a blunt refusal to consider the idea
is a no-risk strategy from their point of view. If they were prepared to
discuss or negotiate, the ultimatum would not have been issued in this
manner in the first place.

All is not lost yet, however, and I do have a couple of ideas up my
sleeve. The first is to play the cute gaijin and write back to him
directly in my limited Japanese. Maybe it will amuse him enough for him
to forget the underlying problem. Also, we may try to get a set of
training wheels. The law clearly applies to 2 and 3 wheeled vehicles
only. I suspect this might not go down well but it's worth considering.

As for just giving up and riding single bikes: well, we could do this as
a last resort. However our commute is rather too long and hilly for
comfort - the tandem is much faster, and we chose our house location
largely from the point of view of its suitability for cycling to work
from. Also, the roads are quite busy and the tandem is much safer - we
do ride singles occasionally (eg when one of us is away) but it is a
much more unpleasant experience - a tandem gets so much respect due to
the extra road presence, and the extra speed also helps us mix with the
motorised traffic. Strange as it might seem to readers from flj (and
maybe the other newsgroups!), tandeming to work every day is an
important part of our lives, it has figured very highly in all of our
job and house choices and we are not keen to let some petty bureaucrat
take it away from us without good reason.

Here is the law, as it was given to me, with a translation. Apologies to
those who can't read the japanese but I would be grateful for
confirmation that the translation (not mine) is a fair one. It is clear
that the target is multiple occupancy of an ordinary bicycle, not
tandems themselves. It is not the tandem bicycle itself that is the
problem, one person riding a tandem is ok (but a bit awkward and silly
for any significant distance). In the UK, I believe the equivalent law
has the exception "unless specifically adapted for the purpose" but here
that clause only applies to the carrying of small children and not more
generally. The law specifically mentions 2 and 3 wheels, hence the idea
for training wheels (maybe I would need a car driver's licence then:-).


$BBh(B9$B>r!'7Z<VN>$N>h<V?M?tKt$O@Q:\$N@)8B(B
$B!!!!FsNX<VKt$O;0NX$N<+E><V$K$"$?$C$F$O!"(B1$B?M$rD6$($J$$$3$H!#(B
$B!!!!C"$7!">h<VAuCV$r@_$1!"0BA4$JJ}K!$GEv3:>h<VAuCV$K#6:PL$K~(B
$B!!!!$N<T(B1$BL>$r>h<V$5$;!"(B16$B:P0J>e$N<T$,1?E>$9$k>l9g!"$^$?$O(B
$B!!!!<+E><V@lMQF;O)Ey$K$*$$$F>h<VAuCV$K1~$8$??M0w$,>h<V$9$k(B
$B!!!!>l9g$O!"$3$N8B$j$G$O$J$$!#(B


Article 9: The limitation of the numbers of people and load capacity
on a (light-weight) vehicle

When riding a two-wheeled vehicle or three-wheeled cycles, the number of
people
on the vehicle cannot exceed one.
But there are exceptions and those are as follows:
1) When setting a device in a safe way on the vehicle and one person under
6 years old is riding on this device accompanied by a driver who is
older than 16 years old.
2) When cycling on a road exclusively for a cycler with devices on your
vehicles,
you can ride with the amount of people that the device is allowed to carry.


James

[Louise Bremner]

Darin McGrew > wrote:

> Louise Bremner > wrote:
> > Don't know what a "stoker" is in this context. Maybe I'm better off not
> > knowing, since I never really learnt to ride a bike myself?
>
> On a tandem, the person in the front is the captain, and the person in the
> back is the stoker.

Ah.... The person doing most of the hard work?

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Ryan Ginstrom]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
->

> $BBh(B9$B>r!'7Z<VN>$N>h<V?M?tKt$O@Q:\$N@)8B(B
> $B!!!!FsNX<VKt$O;0NX$N<+E><V$K$"$?$C$F$O!"(B1$B?M$rD6$($J$$$3$H!#(B
> $B!!!!C"$7!">h<VAuCV$r@_$1!"0BA4$JJ}K!$GEv3:>h<VAuCV$K#6:PL$K~(B
> $B!!!!$N<T(B1$BL>$r>h<V$5$;!"(B16$B:P0J>e$N<T$,1?E>$9$k>l9g!"$^$?$O(B
> $B!!!!<+E><V@lMQF;O)Ey$K$*$$$F>h<VAuCV$K1~$8$??M0w$,>h<V$9$k(B
> $B!!!!>l9g$O!"$3$N8B$j$G$O$J$$!#(B

There may be an official translation of this one, but here is the gist:

Article 9. Weight and Passenger Restrictions on Light Vehicles[1]

No more than on person may ride a bicycle or tricycle, with the following
exceptions:

(1) A child under the age of six is seated safely in a seat mounted on the
vehicle, and the vehicle is being operated by a person of at least 16 years
of age

(2) The vehicle is being ridden on a bicycle path *or the like*, and the
number of persons riding the vehicle does not exceed the number of seats
thereon.

So, it seems perfectly legal to ride a tandem on a bicycle path, and the *or
the like* (nado) may actually give you some wiggle room as to what gets
defined as a "road for the exclusive use of bicycles and the like (jitensha
senyou douro nado)." I.e., what is "like" a bike path? Is a sidewalk like a
bike path? Is a pedestrian-only street like a bike path? Etc.

However, since you have already ****ed off your boss, it might be a bit late
for some winking and nudging. Good luck!

By the way, clause (2) there seems to rule out any possibilty of tandems
having been excluded "by mistake," as they provide for them specifically as
long as they are on bike paths (or the like <g>).

[1] The law should define what a "light" vehicle is somewhere, but it
probably includes gentsuki (scooters), bicycles, and electric carts (e.g.
Rascal).

--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom

[Mike Schwab]

James Annan wrote:
> Article 9: The limitation of the numbers of people and load capacity
> on a (light-weight) vehicle
>
> When riding a two-wheeled vehicle or three-wheeled cycles, the number of
> people
> on the vehicle cannot exceed one.
> But there are exceptions and those are as follows:
> 1) When setting a device in a safe way on the vehicle and one person under
> 6 years old is riding on this device accompanied by a driver who is
> older than 16 years old.
> 2) When cycling on a road exclusively for a cycler with devices on your
> vehicles,
> you can ride with the amount of people that the device is allowed to carry.
>
> James

2) I think a seat fits the category of devices to carry additional
persons. Check with your friendly police officer.

Also write a letter to your boss explaining your experiences with single
and tandem bicycles on your way to work, exactly like you did in this
message.

[James Annan]

Ryan Ginstrom wrote:

> "James Annan" > wrote in message
> ->
>
>>$BBh(B9$B>r!'7Z<VN>$N>h<V?M?tKt$O@Q:\$N@)8B(B
>>$B!!!!FsNX<VKt$O;0NX$N<+E><V$K$"$?$C$F$O!"(B1$B?M$rD6$($J$$$3$H!#(B
>>$B!!!!C"$7!">h<VAuCV$r@_$1!"0BA4$JJ}K!$GEv3:>h<VAuCV$K#6:PL$K~(B
>>$B!!!!$N<T(B1$BL>$r>h<V$5$;!"(B16$B:P0J>e$N<T$,1?E>$9$k>l9g!"$^$?$O(B
>>$B!!!!<+E><V@lMQF;O)Ey$K$*$$$F>h<VAuCV$K1~$8$??M0w$,>h<V$9$k(B
>>$B!!!!>l9g$O!"$3$N8B$j$G$O$J$$!#(B
>

>
> (2) The vehicle is being ridden on a bicycle path *or the like*, and the
> number of persons riding the vehicle does not exceed the number of seats
> thereon.
>

> By the way, clause (2) there seems to rule out any possibilty of tandems
> having been excluded "by mistake," as they provide for them specifically as
> long as they are on bike paths (or the like <g>).

Hmmm. It seems to me that this clause is referring not to "the number of
seats" but something more "appropriate apparatus for carrying that many
people" and as such I find it a strange way of referring to tandems and
other multi-seat bikes, if that is really its purpose. It sounds more
like a circus bike for special displays. But maybe that's just how the
nihongo works.

I wonder how rickshaws are treated under this law. They are ubiquitous
in my home town (tourist trap).

It is good to see that *and the like* as it definitely provides the
wriggle room for off-road MTB tandeming which I had always wondered
about and will now happily assert is unequivocally legal (at least until
I am arrested and charged). I must point Mr Bureaucrat in the direction
of this web page:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/commute/index.html

Thanks,

James

[Drew Hamilton]

In article >, James Annan wrote:
>2) When cycling on a road exclusively for a cycler with devices on your
>vehicles,
>you can ride with the amount of people that the device is allowed to carry.

Didn't you say that tandem bikes were outlawed by accident? If so,
why would they have this clause?

Seems to me that the law against tandem bikes was intentional. While
you may not like it, that's the law.

- awh

[Dave Fossett]

James Annan wrote:

> It is good to see that *and the like* as it definitely provides the
> wriggle room for off-road MTB tandeming which I had always wondered
> about and will now happily assert is unequivocally legal (at least until
> I am arrested and charged). I must point Mr Bureaucrat in the direction
> of this web page:
>
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/commute/index.html

I explored some of the other pages on your site, and smiled at the comment
on the page below about campsites not accepting tents. Only in Japan...
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/golden_week_tour/index.html

--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan

[Max]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote:

> At least once I saw him doing so from the stoker's position too,
> though /that/ didn't look terribly controllable.
>

it's easier than it looks, but one should start it going from the
captain's seat first.

..max

--
the part of >
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

[Ryan Ginstrom]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...
> Ryan Ginstrom wrote:
>
> > "James Annan" > wrote in message
> > ->
> >
> >>$BBh(B9$B>r!'7Z<VN>$N>h<V?M?tKt$O@Q:\$N@)8B(B
> >>$B!!!!FsNX<VKt$O;0NX$N<+E><V$K$"$?$C$F$O!"(B1$B?M$rD6$($J$$$3$H!#(B
> >>$B!!!!C"$7!">h<VAuCV$r@_$1!"0BA4$JJ}K!$GEv3:>h<VAuCV$K#6:PL$K~(B
> >>$B!!!!$N<T(B1$BL>$r>h<V$5$;!"(B16$B:P0J>e$N<T$,1?E>$9$k>l9g!"$^$?$O(B
> >>$B!!!!<+E><V@lMQF;O)Ey$K$*$$$F>h<VAuCV$K1~$8$??M0w$,>h<V$9$k(B
> >>$B!!!!>l9g$O!"$3$N8B$j$G$O$J$$!#(B
> >
>
> >
> > (2) The vehicle is being ridden on a bicycle path *or the like*, and the
> > number of persons riding the vehicle does not exceed the number of seats
> > thereon.

> Hmmm. It seems to me that this clause is referring not to "the number of
> seats" but something more "appropriate apparatus for carrying that many
> people"

I said gist -- the translation is admittedly loose. However I would like to
see an example of a $B>h<VAuCV(B that would not be called a "seat" in English.
You could even have a cradle-like contraption, and it would most likely be
called an infant *seat*.

> I wonder how rickshaws are treated under this law. They are ubiquitous
> in my home town (tourist trap).

I saw some online definitions that included "carts pulled by people or
animals" under "light vehicle." However, there seem to be several
definitions, so you have to get the definition that pertains to your law.

If you can find that rickshaws are traveling the streets, and they are
included under "light vehicles," then you definitely have a good case for
riding your tandem *on the roads used by the rickshaws*

--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom

[Max]

In article >,
"Ryan Ginstrom" > wrote:

> > > "James Annan" > wrote in message
> > > ->
> > >
> > >>$BBh(B9$B>r!'7Z<VN>$N>h<V?M?tKt$O@Q:\$N@)8B(B
> > >>$B!!!!FsNX<VKt$O;0NX$N<+E><V$K$"$?$C$F$O!"(B1$B?M$rD6$($J$$$3$H!#(B
> > >>$B!!!!C"$7!">h<VAuCV$r@_$1!"0BA4$JJ}K!$GEv3:>h<VAuCV$K#6:PL$K~(B

> > >>$B!!!!$N<T(B1$BL>$r>h<V$5$;!"(B16$B:P0J>e$N<T$,1?E>$9$k>l9g!"$^$?$O(B
> > >>$B!!!!<+E><V@lMQF;O)Ey$K$*$$$F>h<VAuCV$K1~$8$??M0w$,>h<V$9$k(B

> > >>$B!!!!>l9g$O!"$3$N8B$j$G$O$J$$!#(B
>
> I said gist -- the translation is admittedly loose. However I would like to
> see an example of a $B>h<VAuCV(B that would not be called a "seat" in English.
> You could even have a cradle-like contraption, and it would most likely be
> called an infant *seat*.

SLOW DOWN. i'm only on lesson seven, "Mr. Smith visits Mr. Tanaka on
Sunday."

..max

--
the part of >
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

[John W.]

Bill Robertson wrote:
> James Annan wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully received.
>
>
> Not sure about sensible, but you've got 3 tandems: how about riding one
> each for a while to make the point?
>
Sounds like a pretty damn fine idea, actually.

John W.

[John W.]

Peter Fox wrote:
> Following on from James Annan's message. . .
> [Bizarre story of Little Togo trying to ban cycling to work snipped]
>
>
> Why not organise the other cyclists.

While I think the entirety of your post is a good idea, it's not very
practical in Japan, particularly in that situation. My guess is that the
core of the problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual riding
of the bike, but perhaps the size of the bike. Perhaps somebody
complained that the bike sticks out too far, maybe someone bumped into
it, something like that. If that's the case there are far easier
resolutions. This is why I think the idea of riding one to a bike for a
few days might solve the situation; if size truly is the issue, that
will come out in no time at all.

John W.

[Michael Cash]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:34:48 +0900, "mr.sumo snr."
> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>"James Annan" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> In the UK, I would happily tell the bureaucrat to **** off, but
>> unfortunately workers' rights are still a rather foreign concept here
>> and it is clear that any foreigner who kicks up too much of a fuss gets
>> sent home in short order (I have already caused more than my share of
>> trouble, and now is definitely not a good time to start any more).
>> Bureaucrats aside, I like it here, and am not in a rush to leave. But I
>> don't take kindly to small-minded petty jobsworths trying to push me
>> around. Any hints and tips for a sensible strategy will be gratefully
>> received.
>>
>
>Why not tell him: "No UKlander ever needs a 'permission slip' to ride a
>tandem bicycle"

I sometimes use a variation on that theme when people ask me if I got
my truck license in Japan. I tell them I don't have a license at all.
When they ask how I can get by with that, I tell them it is because my
country won the war and that entitles me to some privileges.




--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Darin McGrew wrote:
>Louise Bremner > wrote:
>> Don't know what a "stoker" is in this context. Maybe I'm better off not
>> knowing, since I never really learnt to ride a bike myself?
>
>On a tandem, the person in the front is the captain, and the person in the
>back is the stoker.

The captain steers and the stoker doesn't. Almost always, this is the
same thing as saying the person in the front is the captain, but not always:
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino.shtml

[James Annan]

John W. wrote:


> While I think the entirety of your post is a good idea, it's not very
> practical in Japan, particularly in that situation. My guess is that the
> core of the problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual riding
> of the bike, but perhaps the size of the bike. Perhaps somebody
> complained that the bike sticks out too far, maybe someone bumped into
> it, something like that.

Well, the message I received referred explicitly to the issue of a crash
on the way to work. However when discussing the matter with some friends
at work, one person who I do not know well did chime in with "Ah, you
are the ones with the big bike. Someone told me that it takes up a lot
of space in the bike park" (or words to that effect). There are also a
few motorbikes that take up a huge amount of room (and only carry one
person each, rather than 2) but it wouldn't surprise me if this was the
reason that someone thought to mention it in the first place.

We often leave the bike outside the covered park, leaning up on a fence,
for precisely this reason. But I don't see this working as a permanent
solution now that someone has got his knickers in a twist over the law.

James

[James Annan]

Ryan Ginstrom wrote:


> If you can find that rickshaws are traveling the streets, and they are
> included under "light vehicles," then you definitely have a good case for
> riding your tandem *on the roads used by the rickshaws*

If the rickshaws are running freely wherever they wish, without any
hindrance, then that would be strong evidence that they are allowed
anywhere, rather than just on a specially defined set of roads.

James

[Louise Bremner]

Dave Fossett > wrote:

> James Annan wrote:
>
> > It is good to see that *and the like* as it definitely provides the
> > wriggle room for off-road MTB tandeming which I had always wondered
> > about and will now happily assert is unequivocally legal (at least until
> > I am arrested and charged). I must point Mr Bureaucrat in the direction
> > of this web page:
> >
> > http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/commute/index.html
>
> I explored some of the other pages on your site, and smiled at the comment
> on the page below about campsites not accepting tents. Only in Japan...
> http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/golden_week_tour/index.html

And also the clear route marked on the map, that does not, in fact,
exist in reality and looks like it never could have at any point in the
past. Disconcerting when the piece of fiction looks so similar to an
Ordinance Survey map.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Claire Petersky]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...

> All is not lost yet, however, and I do have a couple of ideas up my
> sleeve. The first is to play the cute gaijin and write back to him
> directly in my limited Japanese.

Unfortunately, this might be your best response if your main goal is to
continue riding the tandem. The big red tandem makes you stick out -- this
is really your crime, not any letter of any dusty law that may or may not be
enforced. I think if you really wanted to continue to ride the tandem,
playing the gaijin card would be the most effective.It would go something
along the lines of, "I'm already exempt from Japanese rules of propriety
because I am a gaijin. Please forgive my oafishness, but really, I can not
help it, it is my inner nature."

The problem with the gaijin card is that, at least every time I saw it
played or when I resorted to playing it is, it confirms the Japanese notion
that gaijin are at best, Not Civilized. If your larger goal is to be
accepted by your fellows as something better than subhuman, you should keep
the playing of the gaijin card to a minimum.

> Also, we may try to get a set of
> training wheels. The law clearly applies to 2 and 3 wheeled vehicles
> only. I suspect this might not go down well but it's worth considering.

I don't think this really solves the loss of face issue.

I think the best solution is to ride most of the way, and stash the bike, as
has been suggested. While someone may indeed tattle on you (you are not
conforming, damn it!), if you aren't waving the bike in his face, he can
just ignore the tattler and ignore you, and everyone can pretend that you
aren't riding the tandem any more.

> Strange as it might seem to readers from flj (and
> maybe the other newsgroups!), tandeming to work every day is an
> important part of our lives, it has figured very highly in all of our
> job and house choices and we are not keen to let some petty bureaucrat
> take it away from us without good reason.

As someone reading this from rec.bicycles.soc, it does not surprise me. For
quite a while my husband and I were able to bicycle together (on singles) to
work about once or twice a week. This can really be quality time for couples
together. The teamwork involved in tandeming would also help further the
bond between you.I was also very surprised, when we got to riding together
on some centuries how the teamwork we had developed riding to work made for
such a great experience during the event.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[John W.]

James Annan wrote:
> John W. wrote:
>
>
>> While I think the entirety of your post is a good idea, it's not very
>> practical in Japan, particularly in that situation. My guess is that
>> the core of the problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual
>> riding of the bike, but perhaps the size of the bike. Perhaps somebody
>> complained that the bike sticks out too far, maybe someone bumped into
>> it, something like that.
>
>
> Well, the message I received referred explicitly to the issue of a crash
> on the way to work. However when discussing the matter with some friends
> at work, one person who I do not know well did chime in with "Ah, you
> are the ones with the big bike. Someone told me that it takes up a lot
> of space in the bike park" (or words to that effect). There are also a
> few motorbikes that take up a huge amount of room (and only carry one
> person each, rather than 2) but it wouldn't surprise me if this was the
> reason that someone thought to mention it in the first place.
>
> We often leave the bike outside the covered park, leaning up on a fence,
> for precisely this reason. But I don't see this working as a permanent
> solution now that someone has got his knickers in a twist over the law.

I think this is the beauty of you and your wife seperately riding a
tandem. It would draw the real issue out into the open without raising
any sort of fuss or causing a scene that could have negative
consequences. If the other party wants to be a jerk, let him be one, and
let everyone see what the real problem is.

As a lifelong cyclist, I can understand your passion for the tandem
(though I've never ridden one). To preserve a peaceful work environment
you might have to break down and get single bikes. But first I'd ride
individually on the tandem just to see what happens.

John W.

[Claire Petersky]

I apologize for following up on my own post, but I had a thought further on
this topic.

"Claire Petersky" > wrote in message
news:AJZPb.102894$sv6.452347@attbi_s52...

> The big red tandem makes you stick out -- this
> is really your crime, not any letter of any dusty law that may or may not
be
> enforced. I think if you really wanted to continue to ride the tandem,
> playing the gaijin card would be the most effective.It would go something
> along the lines of, "I'm already exempt from Japanese rules of propriety
> because I am a gaijin. Please forgive my oafishness, but really, I can not
> help it, it is my inner nature."

I'm thinking that, if you went this route, you should have an intermediary
apologize on your behalf. The best person for this would be someone at your
mutual workplace who is above the both of you in the hierarchy. This person
would explain that we need to excuse the gaijin for his eccentricities, yes,
strictly speaking it's against the rules, but let's just turn a blind eye
for now, after all, he's only a gaijin, and he's valuable to this
organization.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[Louise Bremner]

John W. > wrote:

> James Annan wrote:
> > John W. wrote:
> >
> >
> >> While I think the entirety of your post is a good idea, it's not very
> >> practical in Japan, particularly in that situation. My guess is that
> >> the core of the problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual
> >> riding of the bike, but perhaps the size of the bike. Perhaps somebody
> >> complained that the bike sticks out too far, maybe someone bumped into
> >> it, something like that.
> >
> >
> > Well, the message I received referred explicitly to the issue of a crash
> > on the way to work. However when discussing the matter with some friends
> > at work, one person who I do not know well did chime in with "Ah, you
> > are the ones with the big bike. Someone told me that it takes up a lot
> > of space in the bike park" (or words to that effect). There are also a
> > few motorbikes that take up a huge amount of room (and only carry one
> > person each, rather than 2) but it wouldn't surprise me if this was the
> > reason that someone thought to mention it in the first place.
> >
> > We often leave the bike outside the covered park, leaning up on a fence,
> > for precisely this reason. But I don't see this working as a permanent
> > solution now that someone has got his knickers in a twist over the law.
>
> I think this is the beauty of you and your wife seperately riding a
> tandem. It would draw the real issue out into the open without raising
> any sort of fuss or causing a scene that could have negative
> consequences. If the other party wants to be a jerk, let him be one, and
> let everyone see what the real problem is.
>
> As a lifelong cyclist, I can understand your passion for the tandem
> (though I've never ridden one). To preserve a peaceful work environment
> you might have to break down and get single bikes. But first I'd ride
> individually on the tandem just to see what happens.

If you don't fancy pushing two tandems there and back every day along
the route you show in your website, you could consider stashing one
close to work and only do the solo riding into and out of the company
gates....

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Hibijibi]

"James Annan"wrote...
> Well, the message I received referred explicitly to the issue of a crash
> on the way to work.

As some others have suggested, I believe the core problem may be one of
insurance for employees of the institute. However, there may well have been
a 3rd party that raised the issue with the bureaucrat in the first place.
Perhaps he wanted to ride his donkey to work or who knows what, and being
rebuffed, complained of the double standard for the gaijin couple riding
that ridiculous tandem monstrosity.

In retrospect, I think the best thing would have been for you to shelve the
tandem at the very first hint of trouble so as to give the bureaucrat some
face, and then in a week or two find a discreet place for it before entering
the building.

On the other hand, you might consider that one of these days you'll probably
try driving down that sheer rock-faced hill on your off-road commute and
take a spill. Then you'll be saying to the same bureaucrat "What do you
mean the insurance doesn't cover my skull fracture!?" %-)

Finding a good place to park one's bicycle is not only problematic in Japan.
I had a heck of a time doing that at my former workplace in Manhattan. I
could freely ride the entire way downtown on a bike path next to the river,
but if I locked the bike up outside the office pieces would soon be missing
when I came back out. One day my front wheel was missing and the valve caps
had been replaced with caps that read "Your bike sucks". After 9/11 with
their headquarters destroyed in the WTC, the FBI relocated to a few floors
below my employer. This resulted in the streets around the building being
barricaded and red-neck-looking guys prowling around with automatic weapons.
Nevertheless, one day I come out and my bike seat was missing.

I was pretty hot under the collar by this time, but finally, the word came
down we could park our bikes in the parking garage of the building. This was
A Good Thing as my former boss was fond of saying, although I once got into
a heated argument with an FBI agent who almost ran me over with his black
Suburban as he exited the garage the wrong way onto a one-way street. Still,
my bike always remained intact in the parking garage and I was grateful.
But this happiness was short-lived after the 9/11 chaos subsided, and
another company in the building re-claimed the bicycle rack space in the
garage, so it was back onto the street. I departed to Japan not long after
and tried to sell the bike (which admittedly sucked bigtime) for $50 to a
crowd of Chinese bike delivery guys. They barely took one look at it before
dismissing me. I finally left it in my building's storage room and don't
know what happened to it.

But I digress.

Best of luck in finding a harmonious solution,
Hibijibi

[zaphod]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message >...
> "the nail that stands out will be
> hammered down"

desu-ne.

*that* was the quote I was after. Thanks...saved me delving into my
Josie Dew collection.. ;+)

z

[Tony Raven]

Claire Petersky wrote:
>
> I'm thinking that, if you went this route, you should have an intermediary
> apologize on your behalf. The best person for this would be someone at your
> mutual workplace who is above the both of you in the hierarchy. This person
> would explain that we need to excuse the gaijin for his eccentricities, yes,
> strictly speaking it's against the rules, but let's just turn a blind eye
> for now, after all, he's only a gaijin, and he's valuable to this
> organization.

I agree completely. In a society where they have hundreds of ways of avoiding
the confrontation of saying "No", confrontation is never going to be
effective. Law and logic play a minor role compared to personal interactions
and peer pressure. "Gomen nasai, gaikokujin desu" with appropriate lowering
of the head solved many problems for me. Even had the local police turn out
in Uji to break into my illegally parked car when I locked the keys inside.
Lots of light hearted despair of the "I don't know , gaijins huh" and pointing
out of the no parking signs and teasing me before a grateful bowing and
thanking session and being told it would be OK to leave the car parked
illegally for an hour or two while we went in search of green tea.

Tony

[Michael Cash]

On 23 Jan 2004 01:15:29 -0800, (zaphod)
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>"Tony Raven" > wrote in message >...
>> "the nail that stands out will be
>> hammered down"
>
>desu-ne.
>
>*that* was the quote I was after. Thanks...saved me delving into my
>Josie Dew collection.. ;+)

That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
squeaky wheels and grease.




--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[Q.]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message
...
> Claire Petersky wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking that, if you went this route, you should have an
intermediary
> > apologize on your behalf. The best person for this would be someone at
your
> > mutual workplace who is above the both of you in the hierarchy. This
person
> > would explain that we need to excuse the gaijin for his eccentricities,
yes,
> > strictly speaking it's against the rules, but let's just turn a blind
eye
> > for now, after all, he's only a gaijin, and he's valuable to this
> > organization.
>
> I agree completely. In a society where they have hundreds of ways of
avoiding
> the confrontation of saying "No", confrontation is never going to be
> effective. Law and logic play a minor role compared to personal
interactions
> and peer pressure. "Gomen nasai, gaikokujin desu" with appropriate
lowering
> of the head solved many problems for me. Even had the local police turn
out
> in Uji to break into my illegally parked car when I locked the keys
inside.
> Lots of light hearted despair of the "I don't know , gaijins huh" and
pointing
> out of the no parking signs and teasing me before a grateful bowing and
> thanking session and being told it would be OK to leave the car parked
> illegally for an hour or two while we went in search of green tea.
>
> Tony

I don't know much about Japanese culture however a similar approach has
worked for me in the US a few times. "Saving face" isn't a uniquely
Japanese concept.

They way I've done it in the past is when confronted by a petty bureaucrat
telling me I have to do something differently "just because I said so", I've
played dumb and in essence have said "I'm just a geek, all I know about is
how to do my job, please explain the political crap to me as if I was a
child". This seems to work as it's non confrontational, and it's a bit like
the Socratic method ... you think about it and you show me why your way is
better. Often, they'll spew their load of dogma, and I'll catch them in
some subtle point of logic (especially if it makes them look better) ... and
the response will be "point well taken".

I'm envisioning something along these lines: "Mr. X., please forgive my
ignorance, all I am is an engineer and the only reason my wife and I ride a
tandem bicycle to work is because it seems to us to be the most efficient,
simple, and elegant solution to us (and give him some solid logical
reasons). I know you are much smarter than us and understand the reasons
why this is not so. Since I cannot understand the social reasons, could you
please do me the honor of explaining to me?"

Good luck,

C.Q.C.

[Tony Raven]

Michael Cash wrote:
>
> That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
> operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
> squeaky wheels and grease.

In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered is an
old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an American one
which has not been adopted into Japanese culture. The two though nicely
contrast the cultures though.

Thought the following might give a nice insight into the problem and its
solution

http://www.acs.ohio-state.edu/internationalstudies/japan/japaninstitute/p-12/lessons/4-%20Decision%20Making%20in%20Japan/groups.pdf

Tony

[Clive George]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Michael Cash wrote:
>>
>> That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
>> operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
>> squeaky wheels and grease.
>
> In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered
> is an old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an
> American one which has not been adopted into Japanese culture. The
> two though nicely contrast the cultures though.

Also even in English being greased implies a positive action whereas being
hammered implies a negative one.

cheers,
clive

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

"James Annan" > wrote in message
...

[snip excellent example of the law of unintended consequences]

What do people in Japan do when they want ot have a law changed?

God knows what they'd make of our triplet...

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> "James Annan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [snip excellent example of the law of unintended consequences]
>
> What do people in Japan do when they want ot have a law changed?
>

Its done in the Japanese way. In feudal Japan eating animals was forbidden
but birds and fish were OK. But they ate rabbits even though they were
animals. They rationalised this by calling rabbits birds which is why in
their counting system small animals are counted ippiki, nihiki, sanbiki etc
and birds and rabbits are counted ichiwa, niwa, sanwa etc. (At least that's
the way the story's told)

You find "problems" are often solved in Japan by rationisations that may not
always seem logical from a western cultural perspective.

Tony

[James Annan]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> "James Annan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [snip excellent example of the law of unintended consequences]
>
> What do people in Japan do when they want ot have a law changed?

Even the most radical activists generally seem to restrict their
activities to trying to get the authorities to act on promises they have
already willingly made (which itself seems to be a largely fruitless and
soul-destroying task), and would probably blanch at the prospect of
trying to generate change ab initio.

James

[Michael Cash]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:52:20 -0000, "Tony Raven"
> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>Michael Cash wrote:
>>
>> That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
>> operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
>> squeaky wheels and grease.
>
>In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered is an
>old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an American one
>which has not been adopted into Japanese culture. The two though nicely
>contrast the cultures though.

I don't give a **** if the expression has been adopted into Japanese
culture or not. Based on personal empirical observations over the
course of three visits to Japan, I'm telling you that I have seen more
squeaky wheels greased than I have seen protruding nails hammered
down.
>
>Thought the following might give a nice insight into the problem and its
>solution
>
>http://www.acs.ohio-state.edu/internationalstudies/japan/japaninstitute/p-12/lessons/4-%20Decision%20Making%20in%20Japan/groups.pdf

Thanks for the link, but the day I need the observations of some
pointy-headed academic warming a chair at the international studies
department of some jerkwater US university in order to form an opinion
about whether the squeaky wheel getting the grease metaphor has
supplanted the nail being hammered down metaphor I'll just pack up my
carpetbag and be moving along.




--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[James Annan]

Tony Raven wrote:

> Michael Cash wrote:
>
>>That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
>>operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
>>squeaky wheels and grease.
>
>
> In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered is an
> old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an American one
> which has not been adopted into Japanese culture.

I suspect, although I cannot speak for him, that Michael Cash might have
been meaning that the latter phrase was indeed more applicable to modern
Japan. Certainly, we've had good treatment in plenty of ways through our
squeakiness. But there's also been some pressure to conform and trivial
petty nonsense we would prefer to do without. On balance, despite the
problems, we really don't want to leave yet. Fortunately, my wife and I
happen to have had a big success recently in our research, which should
mean that the scientific management will want to keep us here, but I do
not kid myself that they will put up with an unlimited amount of trouble.

I think we'll try the email and maybe putting on training wheels for a
bit. Then the ball will be very firmly in his court, he can either
forget the matter or escalate it.

James

[James Annan]

Michael Cash wrote:


> Thanks for the link, but the day I need the observations of some
> pointy-headed academic warming a chair at the international studies
> department of some jerkwater US university in order to form an opinion
> about whether the squeaky wheel getting the grease metaphor has
> supplanted the nail being hammered down metaphor I'll just pack up my
> carpetbag and be moving along.

Stop beating about the bush with your mealy-mouthed euphemisms, and tell
us what you really think.

James

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:07:50 +0900 in rec.bicycles.soc, James
Annan > wrote:

> 2) When cycling on a road exclusively for a cycler with devices on your
> vehicles,
> you can ride with the amount of people that the device is allowed to carry.
>
my interpretation is that this allows you to ride a tandem.
maybe you should explain to pettymind-san that this is your
understanding of the law, since you are sure that they only meant
it to apply to ordinary bicycles.

[Claire Petersky]

"Dennis P. Harris" > wrote in message
...

> i can't understand why you would possibly want to work in an
> organization that allows such anal repressives to control things.
> if it was me, i'd get on my bike and leave. for good.

I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people butting
into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[Tony Raven]

Michael Cash wrote:
>
> I don't give a **** if the expression has been adopted into Japanese
> culture or not. Based on personal empirical observations over the
> course of three visits to Japan, I'm telling you that I have seen more
> squeaky wheels greased than I have seen protruding nails hammered
> down.

Ah the instant expert

>
> Thanks for the link, but the day I need the observations of some
> pointy-headed academic warming a chair at the international studies
> department of some jerkwater US university in order to form an opinion
> about whether the squeaky wheel getting the grease metaphor has
> supplanted the nail being hammered down metaphor I'll just pack up my
> carpetbag and be moving along.

Since you've already made your mind up it I'll leave you to your quaint views.
Good luck with whatever business you are doing there.

Tony

[James Annan]

Dennis P. Harris wrote:


> my interpretation is that this allows you to ride a tandem.

It seems pretty clear to me that the law as it stands does outlaw riding
a tandem (on normal roads). In fact the Japanese disabled cycling
association is severely affected by this law but it it doesn't seem to
have occurred to them that they might try to get something done about it.

James

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:54:36 GMT in rec.bicycles.soc, "Claire
Petersky" > wrote:

> "Dennis P. Harris" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > i can't understand why you would possibly want to work in an
> > organization that allows such anal repressives to control things.
> > if it was me, i'd get on my bike and leave. for good.
>
> I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people butting
> into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.

in spite of the fact that i find reading about japan fascinating,
and have seen many visually stunning images of the country, any
desire to visit there has always been tempered by its reputation
for being expensive, xenophobic, and repressive.

[MonkeyBoy]

How does this law apply to mothers riding with children on their
bikes? I occasionally see a mom with two and even three kids on
bikes! They ride like bats outta hell too :-)

-MB

[MonkeyBoy]

Michael Cash > wrote in message >...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:52:20 -0000, "Tony Raven"
> > brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
> >Michael Cash wrote:
> >>
> >> That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
> >> operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
> >> squeaky wheels and grease.
> >
> >In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered is an
> >old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an American one
> >which has not been adopted into Japanese culture. The two though nicely
> >contrast the cultures though.
>
> I don't give a **** if the expression has been adopted into Japanese
> culture or not. Based on personal empirical observations over the
> course of three visits to Japan, I'm telling you that I have seen more
> squeaky wheels greased than I have seen protruding nails hammered
> down.
> >

Now if we can find a way to get one's protruding nail greased . . .
then, my friends, we're really on to something.

-MB

[Dave Fossett]

"MonkeyBoy" > wrote:

> How does this law apply to mothers riding with children on their
> bikes? I occasionally see a mom with two and even three kids on
> bikes! They ride like bats outta hell too :-)

It's illegal in Japan (but not uncommon) to have more than one child seated
on a bike. I believe it is legal to have one child seated and another
strapped to your back.

--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan

[Trent Piepho]

In article <fYAQb.110248$Rc4.794274@attbi_s54>,
Claire Petersky > wrote:
>"Dennis P. Harris" > wrote in message
...
>
>> i can't understand why you would possibly want to work in an
>> organization that allows such anal repressives to control things.
>> if it was me, i'd get on my bike and leave. for good.
>
>I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people butting
>into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.

Unlike Seattle, you can wear any kind of hat you want on a bicycle in Japan.

You were saying something about people butting into other's business?

[Tony Raven]

MonkeyBoy wrote:
>
> Now if we can find a way to get one's protruding nail greased . . .
> then, my friends, we're really on to something.
>

There is probably an Imperial decree forbidding that as it would in an instant
disable all those nightingale floors ;-)

Tony

[James Annan]

MonkeyBoy wrote:

> How does this law apply to mothers riding with children on their
> bikes? I occasionally see a mom with two and even three kids on
> bikes! They ride like bats outta hell too :-)

It seems to be unequivocally OK, so long as the bike is properly
specified for it (eg child seats, and presumably a tandem would be fine
too) BUT the children must be under 6 (um...no older than 6?) and the
driver 16 or more.

But anyway, it is quite clear that our problem is not about laws or
rules per se: rules and laws are routinely broken all over the place
here, with plenty of tacit and even explicit approval, and the law that
we are breaking is an utterly trivial one that has never been enforced
to my knowledge in Japan (and I know of quite a lot of keen tandemers
who have lived here for many years in total, including one couple who
commuted to work by tandem). It's all about strange people behaving
_differently_. If we were riding on the pavement (or the wrong side of
the road) with no lights at night, no-one would give a ****, so long as
we were riding single bikes.

James

[Claire Petersky]

"Trent Piepho" > wrote in message
...
> In article <fYAQb.110248$Rc4.794274@attbi_s54>,
> Claire Petersky > wrote:
> >"Dennis P. Harris" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> i can't understand why you would possibly want to work in an
> >> organization that allows such anal repressives to control things.
> >> if it was me, i'd get on my bike and leave. for good.
> >
> >I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people butting
> >into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.
>
> Unlike Seattle, you can wear any kind of hat you want on a bicycle in
Japan.
>
> You were saying something about people butting into other's business?

I don't do helmet wars.

But your above comment convinces me you've never lived in Japan.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[Michael Cash]

On 25 Jan 2004 17:00:18 -0800, (MonkeyBoy)
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>Michael Cash > wrote in message >...
>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:52:20 -0000, "Tony Raven"
>> > brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>>
>> >Michael Cash wrote:
>> >>
>> >> That old chestnut needs to be retired on a full pension already. The
>> >> operant expression these days would be the one which makes mention of
>> >> squeaky wheels and grease.
>> >
>> >In what way is it an old chestnut. AFAIK the nail that gets hammered is an
>> >old Japanese saying while the squeaky wheel being greased in an American one
>> >which has not been adopted into Japanese culture. The two though nicely
>> >contrast the cultures though.
>>
>> I don't give a **** if the expression has been adopted into Japanese
>> culture or not. Based on personal empirical observations over the
>> course of three visits to Japan, I'm telling you that I have seen more
>> squeaky wheels greased than I have seen protruding nails hammered
>> down.
>> >
>
>Now if we can find a way to get one's protruding nail greased . . .
>then, my friends, we're really on to something.

There exist in great abundance facilities where one can have one's
knob polished. Let us give thanks to God for the blessings He has
bestowed upon us, and refrain from grousing about those He, in His
Infinite Wisdom, has withheld.





--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[Michael Cash]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:06:55 +0900, "Dave Fossett"
> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:

>"MonkeyBoy" > wrote:
>
>> How does this law apply to mothers riding with children on their
>> bikes? I occasionally see a mom with two and even three kids on
>> bikes! They ride like bats outta hell too :-)
>
>It's illegal in Japan (but not uncommon) to have more than one child seated
>on a bike. I believe it is legal to have one child seated and another
>strapped to your back.

Incorrect in two ways.

1. The law varies. In Tokyo, for example, it varies from one ward to
another.

2. Kids strapped onto Mommy count.




--

Michael Cash

"I am sorry, Mr. Cash, but we are unable to accept your rap sheet in lieu of
a high school transcript."

Dr. Howard Sprague
Dean of Admissions
Mount Pilot College

[pmailkeey]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:15:29 +0900, James Annan
> wrote:

:)The real reason behind this is that my wife and I are recidivist

You've been listening to too much Saga105.7FM - John Darvall's late
evenig show with word quiz !

:)
:)In Japan (in a clear contrast with the UK), the commute to work is
:)partly the responsibility of the employer.

I'd like to see employees being on the payrol from the moment they
step out of the front door. It would really encourage employers to
recruit within a cyclable dictionary !

[sorry, "recidivist" is not in my comprehensive "distance" and my mind
is somewhat at cross-purposes with itself. Thought I'd leave the error
in, it's funny !]
--
Comm again, Mike.

[Tony Raven]

pmailkeey wrote:
>
> It would really encourage employers to
> recruit within a cyclable dictionary !
>

?!

Tony

[Louise Bremner]

Tony Raven > wrote:

> pmailkeey wrote:
> >
> > It would really encourage employers to
> > recruit within a cyclable dictionary !
> >
>
> ?!

Maybe the result of an unsupervised spell-check?

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Tony Raven]

Louise Bremner wrote:
> Tony Raven > wrote:
>
>> pmailkeey wrote:
>>>
>>> It would really encourage employers to
>>> recruit within a cyclable dictionary !
>>>
>>
>> ?!
>
> Maybe the result of an unsupervised spell-check?
>

Cue Sheldon "Something for every cycling occassion" Brown and
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/humor.html#checker

Tony

[Dave Kahn]

(Louise Bremner) wrote in message >...
> Tony Raven > wrote:
>
> > pmailkeey wrote:
> > >
> > > It would really encourage employers to
> > > recruit within a cyclable dictionary !
> >
> > ?!
>
> Maybe the result of an unsupervised spell-check?

I thought he'd explained that he had "dictionary" on the brain having
had to use one to look up "recidivist". He therefore keyed it by
mistake instead of "distance" but left it in because he liked it. That
was my interpretation of his rambling anyway. :-)

--
Dave...

[RK]

"Ryan Ginstrom" > wrote in message >...
> "James Annan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Well, it hasn't been yet. But it has been threatened.
>
> Interesting situation.
>
> If the person has the power to send you packing, and you really want to
> stay, then I'd suck it up and pony up for some mama charis.
>
> If he's just all talk, I'd continue to tell him to **** off. But just be
> polite about it (I'll talk it over with my wife, I need to consider my
> finances, ad infinitum)

This is almost good advice. Never say no, say manana. "We are
striving to correct the situation..." "Looking of suitable single
bikes....", "Yes thank you, we are doingour best to comply..."

[Louise Bremner]

Dave Kahn > wrote:

> (Louise Bremner) wrote in message
>...
> > Tony Raven > wrote:
> >
> > > pmailkeey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It would really encourage employers to
> > > > recruit within a cyclable dictionary !
> > >
> > > ?!
> >
> > Maybe the result of an unsupervised spell-check?
>
> I thought he'd explained that he had "dictionary" on the brain having
> had to use one to look up "recidivist". He therefore keyed it by
> mistake instead of "distance" but left it in because he liked it. That
> was my interpretation of his rambling anyway. :-)

Mine too. But that bit didn't get quoted, and yes, maybe I was careless
in not putting it back in....

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

[Trent Piepho]

In article <Cz9Rb.151780$I06.1533183@attbi_s01>,
Claire Petersky > wrote:
>> >
>> >I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people butting
>> >into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.
>>
>> Unlike Seattle, you can wear any kind of hat you want on a bicycle in
>Japan.
>>
>> You were saying something about people butting into other's business?
>
>I don't do helmet wars.
>
>But your above comment convinces me you've never lived in Japan.

I've been stopped by police multiple times solely for what I was wearing. Can
anyone living in Japan say the same thing?

[Claire Petersky]

"Trent Piepho" > wrote in message
...
> In article <Cz9Rb.151780$I06.1533183@attbi_s01>,
> Claire Petersky > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people
butting
> >> >into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.
> >>
> >> Unlike Seattle, you can wear any kind of hat you want on a bicycle in
> >Japan.
> >>
> >> You were saying something about people butting into other's business?
> >
> >I don't do helmet wars.
> >
> >But your above comment convinces me you've never lived in Japan.
>
> I've been stopped by police multiple times solely for what I was wearing.
Can
> anyone living in Japan say the same thing?

How many times have ordinary people stopped you and criticized you for what
you were wearing?

In Japanese, the word for being wrong, and the word for being different is
the same. If I'd say, "Trent's opinion is different from mine", and "Trent's
opinion is wrong, and I'm right", I'd use the same word in both cases. The
attitude that different equals wrong permeates the entire culture. You don't
need police to enforce this. Society does it for you.

Stuff people would never criticize you for in Seattle were constant targets
in Japan. What I hung up on my laundry line, when I took out my garbage, who
my friends were, and when they came to visit. Clothes? Man, people let me
know all the time if what I was wearing was out of line. People let me know
that I was out of line about things I had no control over. I was too tall to
be acceptable to the rest of society. I'd be naked in the public bath and my
neighbors would let me know I was too hairy. It seemed the whole concept of
"just leave me alone" was completely unknown. I could go on and on.

My encounters with the police in Japan? That's another post. But I did carry
my alien identification card on me at all times, no matter what.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[John W.]

Claire Petersky wrote:
> I'd be naked in the public bath and my
> neighbors would let me know I was too hairy.

Just out of curiosity, are you female?

John W.

[Trent Piepho]

In article <wLQRb.175913$na.286144@attbi_s04>,
Claire Petersky > wrote:
>"Trent Piepho" > wrote in message
...
>> In article <Cz9Rb.151780$I06.1533183@attbi_s01>,
>> Claire Petersky > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >I would suggest never living in Japan, where you will find people
>butting
>> >> >into your business and being anal repressives, on a daily basis.
>> >>
>> >> Unlike Seattle, you can wear any kind of hat you want on a bicycle in
>> >Japan.
>> >>
>> >> You were saying something about people butting into other's business?
>> >
>> >I don't do helmet wars.
>> >
>> >But your above comment convinces me you've never lived in Japan.
>>
>> I've been stopped by police multiple times solely for what I was wearing.
>Can
>> anyone living in Japan say the same thing?
>
>How many times have ordinary people stopped you and criticized you for what
>you were wearing?

More often than the police.

However, there is a significant difference between nosy busybodies complaining
of your choice of dress from their cars, and a nosy busybodies on the county
council using police power to force their fashion style on you.

There is plenty of social pressure to fit in and wear what people think you
should wear here in King county, it's not a trait unique to Japan. Maybe you
just fit in better here than in Japan?

[david moore]

(Trent Piepho) wrote in
:

> However, there is a significant difference between nosy busybodies
> complaining of your choice of dress from their cars, and a nosy
> busybodies on the county council using police power to force their
> fashion style on you.
>
> There is plenty of social pressure to fit in and wear what people
> think you should wear here in King county, it's not a trait unique to
> Japan. Maybe you just fit in better here than in Japan?


What exactly are you wearing that causes such a reaction in King County?

Do they actually have laws there that make it illegal?

Inquiring minds want to know! :-)

[Ryan Ginstrom]

"Claire Petersky" > wrote in message
news:wLQRb.175913$na.286144@attbi_s04...
> How many times have ordinary people stopped you and criticized you for
what
> you were wearing?

In Japan? Never.

> In Japanese, the word for being wrong, and the word for being different is
> the same. If I'd say, "Trent's opinion is different from mine", and
"Trent's
> opinion is wrong, and I'm right", I'd use the same word in both cases. The
> attitude that different equals wrong permeates the entire culture. You
don't
> need police to enforce this. Society does it for you.

Thanks for the language lesson.

You know something else I can't stand about the Japanese? They all take
imperfect even even plain wrong information about other cultures, and apply
it accross the board to everybody from that culture.

GAWD, I hate that!

> I'd be naked in the public bath and my
> neighbors would let me know I was too hairy.

This is almost interesting. Are you a man or a woman?

> I could go on and on.

Please do! It's all quite fascinating.

--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom

[Rafael Caetano]

"Claire Petersky" > wrote in message news:
(...)
> How many times have ordinary people stopped you and criticized you for what
> you were wearing?
>
> In Japanese, the word for being wrong, and the word for being different is
> the same. If I'd say, "Trent's opinion is different from mine", and "Trent's
> opinion is wrong, and I'm right", I'd use the same word in both cases. The
> attitude that different equals wrong permeates the entire culture. You don't
> need police to enforce this. Society does it for you.

Your opinion is completely different from mine.

Rafael Caetano

[Rafael Caetano]

"Tony Raven" > wrote in message >...
> Michael Cash wrote:
> >
> > I don't give a **** if the expression has been adopted into Japanese
> > culture or not. Based on personal empirical observations over the
> > course of three visits to Japan, I'm telling you that I have seen more
> > squeaky wheels greased than I have seen protruding nails hammered
> > down.
>
> Ah the instant expert
>
> >
> > Thanks for the link, but the day I need the observations of some
> > pointy-headed academic warming a chair at the international studies
> > department of some jerkwater US university in order to form an opinion
> > about whether the squeaky wheel getting the grease metaphor has
> > supplanted the nail being hammered down metaphor I'll just pack up my
> > carpetbag and be moving along.
>
> Since you've already made your mind up it I'll leave you to your quaint views.
> Good luck with whatever business you are doing there.

He hammers down protruding bikers.

Rafael Caetano

[Chris Kern]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:42:20 GMT, "Claire Petersky"
> posted the following:

>Stuff people would never criticize you for in Seattle were constant targets
>in Japan. What I hung up on my laundry line, when I took out my garbage, who
>my friends were, and when they came to visit. Clothes? Man, people let me
>know all the time if what I was wearing was out of line. People let me know
>that I was out of line about things I had no control over. I was too tall to
>be acceptable to the rest of society. I'd be naked in the public bath and my
>neighbors would let me know I was too hairy. It seemed the whole concept of
>"just leave me alone" was completely unknown. I could go on and on.

I don't encounter this all that much, but last week I was surprised
that some people who came over to my house launched into a very
detailed critique of the blankets on my bed and how they would result
in me getting a cold (i.e. I use an electric blanket, I use sheets, I
have too many blankets).

-CHris