Followups

[Tom Kunich]

Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
complete TT bike.

Makes sense to me.

Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!

[William Asher]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> complete TT bike.
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>
>

If they don't, you need to ask yourself if you are you willing to start
paying list price for your high-end rides.

--
Bill Asher

[[email protected]]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> complete TT bike.
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!

Do you realize you are talking to yourself?

[Bret]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> complete TT bike.
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!

I've never said anything about a complete TT bike. I don't own one
myself. I also don't claim to be a TT expert. I just said you're a bad
koach.

You've been arguing against the use of all TT equipment at Cat 4/5. I
think everyone who does TTs should at minimum use clip-on aerobars
which are quite affordable. The next step would be a rear disk wheel
and a deep section front wheel. That's enough to compete without a
severe handicap. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that equipment choice. Why
do you?

Your numbers are also way off. Here in CO, we recently had more than
twenty cat 4's (ACA has no cat 5) over 25 mph in the 38K State TT:

http://www.americancycling.org/results/2006/june/stenner.htm

Bret

[ronaldo_jeremiah]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> complete TT bike.
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!

Tom -

Kindly show where I advised anyone to acquire any piece of equipment
for any time trial.

Question: Why is your speed criterion dropping from 25 mph to 23 mph?

Also, note that my name is spelled Ronaldo.

Finally, thank you for acknowledging me as an 'expert.' I may not be
expert in as many areas as you (who is?), but it would be fair to say I
have some expertise in bicycle racing.

-RJ

[Tom Kunich]

Bret wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> > average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> > complete TT bike.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.
> >
> > Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>
> I've never said anything about a complete TT bike. I don't own one
> myself. I also don't claim to be a TT expert. I just said you're a bad
> koach.

For suggesting that someone learn to TT before buying specialize
equipment? Obviously you're a good koach suggesting that buying special
stuff is a better idea than learning what you're supposed to do first.

> You've been arguing against the use of all TT equipment at Cat 4/5. I
> think everyone who does TTs should at minimum use clip-on aerobars
> which are quite affordable. The next step would be a rear disk wheel
> and a deep section front wheel. That's enough to compete without a
> severe handicap. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that equipment choice. Why
> do you?
>
> Your numbers are also way off. Here in CO, we recently had more than
> twenty cat 4's (ACA has no cat 5) over 25 mph in the 38K State TT:
>
> http://www.americancycling.org/results/2006/june/stenner.htm

Is it just me or do you have a problem with English in general? What
does some Cat 4's being faster than 25 mph have to do with the majority
under that?

[Tom Kunich]

ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> > average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> > complete TT bike.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.
> >
> > Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>
> Tom -
>
> Kindly show where I advised anyone to acquire any piece of equipment
> for any time trial.
>
> Question: Why is your speed criterion dropping from 25 mph to 23 mph?
>
> Also, note that my name is spelled Ronaldo.
>
> Finally, thank you for acknowledging me as an 'expert.' I may not be
> expert in as many areas as you (who is?), but it would be fair to say I
> have some expertise in bicycle racing.

Why do you feel the need to hite your identity?

[ronaldo_jeremiah]

> Why do you feel the need to hite your identity?

My identity is well known. I'm not hiting anything.

Why do you feel the need ignore direct questions?

-RJ

[Allez1]

"Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Bret wrote:
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
>> > average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
>> > complete TT bike.
>> >
>> > Makes sense to me.
>> >
>> > Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>>
>> I've never said anything about a complete TT bike. I don't own one
>> myself. I also don't claim to be a TT expert. I just said you're a bad
>> koach.
>
> For suggesting that someone learn to TT before buying specialize
> equipment? Obviously you're a good koach suggesting that buying special
> stuff is a better idea than learning what you're supposed to do first.

Could you please give detailed instruction, point by point, on how to time
trial? Could you also make that for with and without the use of a heart
rate monitor?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.



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[Bret]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Bret wrote:
> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> > > average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> > > complete TT bike.
> > >
> > > Makes sense to me.
> > >
> > > Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
> >
> > I've never said anything about a complete TT bike. I don't own one
> > myself. I also don't claim to be a TT expert. I just said you're a bad
> > koach.
>
> For suggesting that someone learn to TT before buying specialize
> equipment? Obviously you're a good koach suggesting that buying special
> stuff is a better idea than learning what you're supposed to do first.
>
> > You've been arguing against the use of all TT equipment at Cat 4/5. I
> > think everyone who does TTs should at minimum use clip-on aerobars
> > which are quite affordable. The next step would be a rear disk wheel
> > and a deep section front wheel. That's enough to compete without a
> > severe handicap. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that equipment choice. Why
> > do you?
> >
> > Your numbers are also way off. Here in CO, we recently had more than
> > twenty cat 4's (ACA has no cat 5) over 25 mph in the 38K State TT:
> >
> > http://www.americancycling.org/results/2006/june/stenner.htm
>
> Is it just me or do you have a problem with English in general? What
> does some Cat 4's being faster than 25 mph have to do with the majority
> under that?

You didn't limit your arguments to absolute beginners, you included all
cat 4/5's. In fact, you even expanded on that with this absurd
statement:

"In ANY case, a person should be setting records for his area without
Aero stuff before he starts using it".

I'm not sure what "records for his area" means, but you seem to be
saying that anyone below a competitive cat 2 should not use areo
equipment. How you are supposed to compete at this level (say 29 mph)
with a serious equipment disadvantage is not explained.

Bret

[Ewoud Dronkert]

Bret schreef:
> equipment. How you are supposed to compete at this level (say 29 mph)
> with a serious equipment disadvantage is not explained.

Time trialling is for pussies.

--
E. Dronkert

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 13 Jun 2006 13:07:09 -0700, "Kurgan Gringioni"
> wrote:

>The first order effect is spending a lot of time dialing in the
>position. The body is, by far, the biggest component of drag.
>
>Second order effects are anything that are in "clean" air. Helmet, deep
>section front wheel, forks.
>
>The rear disc is a fifth order effect. It spins in "dirty" air. Last is
>the frame - goes through "dirty" air and doesn't spin.

So I'm guessing its better to spend a couple of grand removing
unnecessary body parts out in clean air -perhaps large ears as an
example, than wasting it on a TT frame. For a small minority on rbr,
thinking clean thoughts might have an impact. Just theorizing...

I just realized - I wasn't getting my nose broke, I was going aero.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> > average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> > complete TT bike.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.
> >
> > Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>
> Do you realize you are talking to yourself?

And like most who do so, he's not making any sense.

Andy Coggan

[[email protected]]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
> complete TT bike.

Who you callin' a beginner! Slow maybe, but beginner not. My license
even says I'm a Cat3. (ok, so it expired 15 years ago...)

For what it's worth, I took some of the advice from the 10km TT thread
and applied way more effort than I had been previously. BIG
improvements. Holding my HR down to around LT resulted in about 23mph,
but hammering all I have got me to 14:52. That's over 40 km/h or just
over 25mph. That was also just me on the road, not at an arranged TT
event which might have given me a mental boost. Still on a regular
bike.

I appreciate you sentiments that there are lots of other very important
factors to time trialing other than aero equipment, and mastering those
first may be a good idea, but all the others at the races have the
gear, and I am left comparing apples to oranges.

I'm going to get clip on aero bars and work on a position. Anyone care
to guess how much they will help?

Joseph

[Tim Lines]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
>>> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
>>> complete TT bike.
>>>
>>> Makes sense to me.
>>>
>>> Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
>> Tom -
>>
>> Kindly show where I advised anyone to acquire any piece of equipment
>> for any time trial.
>>
>> Question: Why is your speed criterion dropping from 25 mph to 23 mph?
>>
>> Also, note that my name is spelled Ronaldo.
>>
>> Finally, thank you for acknowledging me as an 'expert.' I may not be
>> expert in as many areas as you (who is?), but it would be fair to say I
>> have some expertise in bicycle racing.
>
> Why do you feel the need to hite your identity?
>

Ooohhh, very clever! So you're saying Ronaldo is REALLY:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shere_Hite

[B. Lafferty]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
>> average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
>> complete TT bike.
>
> Who you callin' a beginner! Slow maybe, but beginner not. My license
> even says I'm a Cat3. (ok, so it expired 15 years ago...)
>
> For what it's worth, I took some of the advice from the 10km TT thread
> and applied way more effort than I had been previously. BIG
> improvements. Holding my HR down to around LT resulted in about 23mph,
> but hammering all I have got me to 14:52. That's over 40 km/h or just
> over 25mph. That was also just me on the road, not at an arranged TT
> event which might have given me a mental boost. Still on a regular
> bike.
>
> I appreciate you sentiments that there are lots of other very important
> factors to time trialing other than aero equipment, and mastering those
> first may be a good idea, but all the others at the races have the
> gear, and I am left comparing apples to oranges.
>
> I'm going to get clip on aero bars and work on a position. Anyone care
> to guess how much they will help?
>
> Joseph
>
12%-15%

[[email protected]]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> Rear disc isn't that important.
>
> The first order effect is spending a lot of time dialing in the
> position. The body is, by far, the biggest component of drag.
>
> Second order effects are anything that are in "clean" air. Helmet, deep
> section front wheel, forks.
>
> The rear disc is a fifth order effect. It spins in "dirty" air. Last is
> the frame - goes through "dirty" air and doesn't spin.

Dumbass,

Although the rear wheel sees "dirty" air, the reduction in drag from
using a disk is essentially the same as from using an aero front wheel.
The frame is also far more important than you imply. Lastly, while the
human body, and hence your position, is the most important factor of
all (as you say), for a well-positioned rider the bicycle itself
accounts for about one-third of the overall drag. To ignore this fact
is Kunichish.

Andy Coggan

[ronaldo_jeremiah]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

>Get used to making wattage in the bars.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?

Frankly, I don't see how spending more time in bars is going to improve
one's TT, though getting laid more often might help indirectly. It's
at least as good as any of Tom's advice so far.

-RJ

[Bret]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Bret schreef:
> > equipment. How you are supposed to compete at this level (say 29 mph)
> > with a serious equipment disadvantage is not explained.
>
> Time trialling is for pussies.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert

You'll get no argument from me. I'm more of a cyclocross specialist
myself now. I used some very bad judgement getting into a TT discussion
with Koach K.

Bret (who's racing a cross bike in an MTB hillclimb to 11,200 ft this
Sat)

[ronaldo_jeremiah]

wrote:

> I'm going to get clip on aero bars and work on a position. Anyone care
> to guess how much they will help?
>
> Joseph

Well, obviously that aero gear is going to make you slower. Duh.
Cause it's expensive and heavy, and it doesn't work until you are a Cat
2 and averaging at least 27.94 mph. Below that is is just BUNK.
LeMond is lucky he didn't LOSE the 89TdF due to his aero bars. Lucky
for him Fignon was on a bad day that day, only placing third in the
fastest-ever TT in the world's biggest race ever.

Forget the aero gear. Find an old Basso Loto, they are THE **** THAT
WILL KILL THEM.

-RJ, woof-shrugging

[Bret]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Bret wrote:
>
> >
> > You've been arguing against the use of all TT equipment at Cat 4/5. I
> > think everyone who does TTs should at minimum use clip-on aerobars
> > which are quite affordable. The next step would be a rear disk wheel
> > and a deep section front wheel.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Rear disc isn't that important.
>
> The first order effect is spending a lot of time dialing in the
> position. The body is, by far, the biggest component of drag.
>
> Second order effects are anything that are in "clean" air. Helmet, deep
> section front wheel, forks.
>
> The rear disc is a fifth order effect. It spins in "dirty" air. Last is
> the frame - goes through "dirty" air and doesn't spin.
>
> Ironically, the aerodynamic importance of a component seems to be
> inversely proportional to the cost. It is a fortuitous occurrence.
> Getting "aero" doesn't cost very much. Bars, helmet, fork, deep section
> front wheel. Can be done for less than $500 if you buy used on ebay or
> at swap meeets. If money is an issue, skip the fifth order effects, the
> rear wheel and frame. The system won't look as impressive as a setup w/
> the rear disc and snazzy frame, but it will be very close in
> performance.
>
> The last step: once one has the setup, train on it, at least once a
> week. Get used to making wattage in the bars.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't
studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and
wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster
in all road race conditions and I always race with them.

Bret

[Kurgan Gringioni]

Bret wrote:
>
> Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't
> studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and
> wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster
> in all road race conditions and I always race with them.




Dumbass -


Good idea.

Towards the end of my racing days I was struck by how much attention
(and money) people paid towards lightening up the bike while
simultaneously ignoring aerodynamics. Weight savings are so tiny
relative to the overall system (rider+bike) compared to potential
aerodynamic drag reductions. It's possible to take one's drag index
down 10%, but try cutting 10% off the bike/rider system. You'd have to
have a 3 lb. bike.

Small breakaways in mass start races are basically mini team time
trials.

I think one of the reasons aero gets ignored is that it's hard to
quantify. You can weigh parts, but how many Masters Fatties have access
to a wind tunnel? and the accompanying hard data that would tell a
racer that the aero stuff makes a difference.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Bob Schwartz]

ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?

Sort of like 'Power Tap'

Bob Schwartz

[[email protected]]

Tim Lines wrote:

>
> Ooohhh, very clever! So you're saying Ronaldo is REALLY:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shere_Hite

Ya mean he's not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo

[Kurgan Gringioni]

ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >Get used to making wattage in the bars.
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?
>
> Frankly, I don't see how spending more time in bars is going to improve
> one's TT, though getting laid more often might help indirectly. It's
> at least as good as any of Tom's advice so far.




Dumbass -


You gotta get comfortable riding in that position. If a rider is doing
something long, like a 40k, they're gonna start sucking if their arms
get tight or the back gets tight. People who are flexible usually don't
have a problem, but a lotta riders, after thousands of hours of sitting
on their hoods/drops, become inflexible in some places and don't feel
comfortable in the aero bars for longer periods of time.

I'm not talking about just getting into aerobars like those guys that
clip some bars onto their regular bars and are practically sitting
straight up when they "get aero". I'm talking about getting in the bars
that are set up right and *getting aero* (getting low (but not too
low)).


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Donald Munro]

Tim Lines wrote:
>> Ooohhh, very clever! So you're saying Ronaldo is REALLY:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shere_Hite

onexge wrote:
> Ya mean he's not:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo

If he was he would be one of us; a masters fatty at least according to the
Brazilian president.

[Donald Munro]

Bret wrote:
> Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't
> studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and
> wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster
> in all road race conditions and I always race with them.

Agreed. At first I was a bit dubious about the cost of getting my Cosmics
but they definitely make a difference and also reduce effort to stay at
speed. These days only a gale force cross wind stops me from racing with
them.

[Donald Munro]

ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
>> Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Sort of like 'Power Tap'

Dumbass,
No. Power tap is when you measure the torque applied to the BB by your
andoulette.

[Donald Munro]

B. Lafferty wrote:
> 12%-15%

Presumably you're not talking about LANCE's haemocrit.

[Donald Munro]

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> I just realized - I wasn't getting my nose broke, I was going aero.

Dumbass,
I would have though a greyhound was a good deal more aero than a pug.

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:04:22 +0200, Donald Munro
> wrote:

>Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>> I just realized - I wasn't getting my nose broke, I was going aero.
>
>Dumbass,
>I would have though a greyhound was a good deal more aero than a pug.

One thing at a time.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[RonSonic]

On 13 Jun 2006 09:26:57 -0700, "Tom Kunich" > wrote:

>Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't
>average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a
>complete TT bike.
>
>Makes sense to me.
>
>Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!

Not sure how I made that list. I've got no doubt I said something disagreeable,
but it's very unlikely I advocated for the purchase of bike bling by a
newby/fred. Honest, look at my bikes.

Ron

[RonSonic]

On 13 Jun 2006 14:19:38 -0700, "Bret" > wrote:

>
>Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>> Bret schreef:
>> > equipment. How you are supposed to compete at this level (say 29 mph)
>> > with a serious equipment disadvantage is not explained.
>>
>> Time trialling is for pussies.
>>
>> --
>> E. Dronkert
>
>You'll get no argument from me. I'm more of a cyclocross specialist
>myself now. I used some very bad judgement getting into a TT discussion
>with Koach K.
>
>Bret (who's racing a cross bike in an MTB hillclimb to 11,200 ft this
>Sat)

Kickass.

Ron

[[email protected]]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
> >
> > Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?
> >
> > Frankly, I don't see how spending more time in bars is going to improve
> > one's TT, though getting laid more often might help indirectly. It's
> > at least as good as any of Tom's advice so far.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> You gotta get comfortable riding in that position. If a rider is doing
> something long, like a 40k, they're gonna start sucking if their arms
> get tight or the back gets tight. People who are flexible usually don't
> have a problem, but a lotta riders, after thousands of hours of sitting
> on their hoods/drops, become inflexible in some places and don't feel
> comfortable in the aero bars for longer periods of time.
>
> I'm not talking about just getting into aerobars like those guys that
> clip some bars onto their regular bars and are practically sitting
> straight up when they "get aero". I'm talking about getting in the bars
> that are set up right and *getting aero* (getting low (but not too
> low)).
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Dumbass,

By "bars", Ronaldo meant places that serve alcohol.

Andy Coggan

[Simon Brooke]

in message . com>, Bret
') wrote:

> Bret (who's racing a cross bike in an MTB hillclimb to 11,200 ft this
> Sat)

Is that as in 11,200 feet of climb (in which case, chapeau) or are you
starting from 11,100 feet?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

[Bret]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Is that as in 11,200 feet of climb (in which case, chapeau) or are you
> starting from 11,100 feet?

Somewhere in between:

Distance: 5.3 miles
Start Elevation: 9,080 feet
Highest Point: 11,142 feet
Total Climbing: 2,062 feet
Average Grade: 7%

http://epicsingletrack.com/racedes/Race1des.html

Bret

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 14 Jun 2006 08:00:19 -0700, wrote:

>Dumbass,
>
>By "bars", Ronaldo meant places that serve alcohol.
>
>Andy Coggan

KG has seriously impaired his chances of making the Livedrunk (c)
fraternity (but all sexes welcomes) when he gives up the Fattie
Masters Fan Club. Beyond appalling.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Simon Brooke]

in message om>, Bret
') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>> Is that as in 11,200 feet of climb (in which case, chapeau) or are you
>> starting from 11,100 feet?
>
> Somewhere in between:
>
> Distance: 5.3 miles
> Start Elevation: 9,080 feet
> Highest Point: 11,142 feet
> Total Climbing: 2,062 feet
> Average Grade: 7%
>
> http://epicsingletrack.com/racedes/Race1des.html

H'mmm... looks a nice event. On that course a crosser should be a much
better bet than a full-on mountain bike - if it is all non-technical, as
they claim.

This weekend I am mostly organising a 400Km 24hour event across 7
mountain bike centres, with road bikes to link up between them.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

[Bret]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message om>, Bret
> ') wrote:
>
> > Simon Brooke wrote:
> >
> >> Is that as in 11,200 feet of climb (in which case, chapeau) or are you
> >> starting from 11,100 feet?
> >
> > Somewhere in between:
> >
> > Distance: 5.3 miles
> > Start Elevation: 9,080 feet
> > Highest Point: 11,142 feet
> > Total Climbing: 2,062 feet
> > Average Grade: 7%
> >
> > http://epicsingletrack.com/racedes/Race1des.html
>
> H'mmm... looks a nice event. On that course a crosser should be a much
> better bet than a full-on mountain bike - if it is all non-technical, as
> they claim.

Yes, it's a well maintained dirt service road and the cross bike is
fine. It's just a question of having low enough gears as it's very
steep in places. For me, a 34-27 works well. The rest of the series is
pure MTB cross-country.

>
> This weekend I am mostly organising a 400Km 24hour event across 7
> mountain bike centres, with road bikes to link up between them.

How does that work? Are support crews shuttling the bikes from section
to section?

Bret

[Kurgan Gringioni]

wrote:
>
> Dumbass,
>
> By "bars", Ronaldo meant places that serve alcohol.



Dumbass -


I am a Dumbass.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Tom Kunich]

"ronaldo_jeremiah" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> Why do you feel the need to hite your identity?
>
> My identity is well known. I'm not hiting anything.
>
> Why do you feel the need ignore direct questions?

Actually what I'm saying is that an anonymous ass doesn't deserve an answer.
Hiding only makes you less significant.

[Simon Brooke]

in message . com>, Bret
') wrote:

>
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> in message om>,
>> Bret ') wrote:
>>
>> > Simon Brooke wrote:
>> >
>> >> Is that as in 11,200 feet of climb (in which case, chapeau) or are
>> >> you starting from 11,100 feet?
>> >
>> > Somewhere in between:
>> >
>> > Distance: 5.3 miles
>> > Start Elevation: 9,080 feet
>> > Highest Point: 11,142 feet
>> > Total Climbing: 2,062 feet
>> > Average Grade: 7%
>> >
>> > http://epicsingletrack.com/racedes/Race1des.html
>>
>> H'mmm... looks a nice event. On that course a crosser should be a much
>> better bet than a full-on mountain bike - if it is all non-technical,
>> as they claim.
>
> Yes, it's a well maintained dirt service road and the cross bike is
> fine. It's just a question of having low enough gears as it's very
> steep in places. For me, a 34-27 works well. The rest of the series is
> pure MTB cross-country.
>
>>
>> This weekend I am mostly organising a 400Km 24hour event across 7
>> mountain bike centres, with road bikes to link up between them.
>
> How does that work? Are support crews shuttling the bikes from section
> to section?

All the mountain bike sections (except the first) are loops. But yes,
teams then shuttle the mountain bike(s) to the next section by car,
while the baton gets carried on a road bike.

More here: http://www.stewartry-wheelers.org/7/24/

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.