it's not about the bike

[Scott Johnson]

What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?

Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.

--
Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

[Scott Johnson]

Scott Johnson wrote:
> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
>
> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.

Whoops, add an "a" or change that to "wusses".



--
Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

[Tom Kunich]

"Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
. ..
> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
>
> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.

Then why don't you get out there and show us what it's all about.

[Scott Johnson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
>>
>> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
>> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.
>
> Then why don't you get out there and show us what it's all about.

LOL, maybe in another 13 years when I'd actually have time to train for
something like that.

It's just interesting that in 20 years no one has come close to matching
his speed. All of our purported advances in training methodology and
technology are less important than just getting out there and riding. I
guess we all knew that though, didn't we?


--
Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

[[email protected]]

Scott Johnson wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
> >>
> >> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
> >> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.
> >
> > Then why don't you get out there and show us what it's all about.
>
> LOL, maybe in another 13 years when I'd actually have time to train for
> something like that.
>
> It's just interesting that in 20 years no one has come close to matching
> his speed. All of our purported advances in training methodology and
> technology are less important than just getting out there and riding. I
> guess we all knew that though, didn't we?
>
>

RAAM is 99% half-mental. Technology isn't too much of a factor. For
other disciplines technology and training has made a big difference in
20 years, but those disciplines aren't so much about who is craziest
and who knows how to suffer as RAAM.

Joseph

[Ron Ruff]

Scott Johnson wrote:
> It's just interesting that in 20 years no one has come close to matching
> his speed.

The course was different in those days... don't know how much, though.
Still Penseyres killed the field in '86, winning by nearly a full
*day*. His next best avg was 13.29mph (vs 15.4 in '86). The next
fastest RAAM was by Kish in '92 @14.91mph. The winners are normally
around 14.5mph.

> All of our purported advances in training methodology and
> technology are less important than just getting out there and riding. I
> guess we all knew that though, didn't we?

Takes a lot more than just getting out and riding. Penseyers was
(is)phenominally gifted with aerobic ability and endurance... plus he
was surely extremely tough and persistant, mentally. He rode a lot...
but he also had a full time job, as I recall.

[Callistus Valerius]

> The course was different in those days... don't know how much, though.
> Still Penseyres killed the field in '86, winning by nearly a full
> *day*. His next best avg was 13.29mph (vs 15.4 in '86). The next
> fastest RAAM was by Kish in '92 @14.91mph. The winners are normally
> around 14.5mph.
>
> > All of our purported advances in training methodology and
> > technology are less important than just getting out there and riding. I
> > guess we all knew that though, didn't we?
>
> Takes a lot more than just getting out and riding. Penseyers was
> (is)phenominally gifted with aerobic ability and endurance... plus he
> was surely extremely tough and persistant, mentally. He rode a lot...
> but he also had a full time job, as I recall.
--------------
He worked at a power plant in San Clemente, CA. He attributes his
record setting pace to speed work he did in training leading up to the
event. The reason he did the speedwork was because he thought he would be
facing Boyer, but Boyer dropped out right before the '86 race. In previous
years he said he just rode tons of miles, in preparation. He found out the
speedwork had much more value. He did his speedwork commuting to and from
work (30 miles each way). Then he would ride 24 hours on Saturday, and take
Sunday off, for the mental part of endurance riding.

[B. Lafferty]

"Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
. ..
> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
>
> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.
>
> --
> Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

FWIW, Boyer's on bike average speed is 17.55mph through time station 28.

As to Pete P's time, how do the routes compare?

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 16 Jun 2006 01:54:16 -0700, wrote:

>
>RAAM is 99% half-mental.

Why does this bring Paris Hilton to mind?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[[email protected]]

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On 16 Jun 2006 01:54:16 -0700, wrote:
>
> >
> >RAAM is 99% half-mental.
>
> Why does this bring Paris Hilton to mind?

Is that meant to say something about her, or you? ;-)

Joseph

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 16 Jun 2006 07:35:36 -0700, wrote:

>> Why does this bring Paris Hilton to mind?
>
>Is that meant to say something about her, or you? ;-)

I like to think my reputation on rbr for probity and sanity speaks for
itself. Little teeny voices, always talking...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Tom Kunich]

"Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
. ..
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "Scott Johnson" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> What's with the low 14's average speeds during RAAM?
>>>
>>> Pete Penseyres averaged 15.4 mph on a steel Raleigh with toe clips which
>>> makes everyone out there look like giant wuss.
>>
>> Then why don't you get out there and show us what it's all about.
>
> LOL, maybe in another 13 years when I'd actually have time to train for
> something like that.
>
> It's just interesting that in 20 years no one has come close to matching
> his speed. All of our purported advances in training methodology and
> technology are less important than just getting out there and riding. I
> guess we all knew that though, didn't we?

Well Scott, the race is all about the proper route and the conditions. Pete
wasn't that fast. In fact if memory serves, at that time he couldn't ride
over 24 mph on the flats. He had a good year, that's all.

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Curtis L. Russell > wrote:

> On 16 Jun 2006 01:54:16 -0700, wrote:
>
> >
> >RAAM is 99% half-mental.
>
> Why does this bring Paris Hilton to mind?

Think about baseball.

--
Michael Press

[Donald Munro]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well Scott, the race is all about the proper route and the conditions. Pete
> wasn't that fast. In fact if memory serves, at that time he couldn't ride
> over 24 mph on the flats. He had a good year, that's all.

So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.

[TM]

"Donald Munro" wrote in message

> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Well Scott, the race is all about the proper route and the conditions.
>> Pete
>> wasn't that fast. In fact if memory serves, at that time he couldn't ride
>> over 24 mph on the flats. He had a good year, that's all.
>
> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.
>

potm hof

[Ron Ruff]

Donald Munro wrote:
> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.

Oddly enough he used them anyway... plus an aero helmet and a disk
wheel...

http://www.ultracycling.com/about/hof_ppenseyres.html

[Scott Johnson]

Donald Munro wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Well Scott, the race is all about the proper route and the conditions. Pete
>> wasn't that fast. In fact if memory serves, at that time he couldn't ride
>> over 24 mph on the flats. He had a good year, that's all.
>
> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.

Too funny!



--
Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Donald Munro wrote:
>> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.
>
> Oddly enough he used them anyway... plus an aero helmet and a disk
> wheel...
>
> http://www.ultracycling.com/about/hof_ppenseyres.html

Do you really believe that those items provided an "aero" advantage? Or do
you suppose they simply allowed him to ride in a position that was better
for long distances?

[billyroll]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Donald Munro wrote:
> >> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.
> >
> > Oddly enough he used them anyway... plus an aero helmet and a disk
> > wheel...
> >
> > http://www.ultracycling.com/about/hof_ppenseyres.html
>
> Do you really believe that those items provided an "aero" advantage?

Yes. Try this, Tommy boy - have mommy take you out in her car (at
24mph, if you like). Stick you hand out the window, palm facing the
direction you are driving. Feel the wind. Then turn you palm so it is
facing down, with your hand cutting through the air. Feel the wind.
Notice a difference? That is the result of less surface area contacting
the wind. Pete's aero bars helped created less frontal surface area.

>Or do
> you suppose they simply allowed him to ride in a position that was better
> for long distances?

I didn't know a disk wheel and aero helmet affected position on the
bike.

-B

[Tom Kunich]

"billyroll" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "Ron Ruff" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Donald Munro wrote:
>> >> So presumably aero bars would have been useless for him.
>> >
>> > Oddly enough he used them anyway... plus an aero helmet and a disk
>> > wheel...
>> >
>> > http://www.ultracycling.com/about/hof_ppenseyres.html
>>
>> Do you really believe that those items provided an "aero" advantage?
>
> Yes. Try this, Tommy boy - have mommy take you out in her car (at
> 24mph, if you like). Stick you hand out the window, palm facing the
> direction you are driving. Feel the wind. Then turn you palm so it is
> facing down, with your hand cutting through the air. Feel the wind.
> Notice a difference? That is the result of less surface area contacting
> the wind. Pete's aero bars helped created less frontal surface area.

Try this - ride your bike across the country with aero bars and then ride it
with regular drop bars. Then report back to us what times you managed. Then
perhaps you'll actually know something beyond the mindless chatter you've
been portraying.

Or maybe you ought to just look at the data from wind tunnel research that
showed that most people have more or less the same drag on a bike with or
without aero bars unless they're turned exactly right? When did Penseyres
hit the wind tunnel?

>>Or do
>> you suppose they simply allowed him to ride in a position that was better
>> for long distances?
>
> I didn't know a disk wheel and aero helmet affected position on the
> bike.

But then you've already shown yourself to be a stupid ass so what's the
difference?

By the way, what's your theory - that Penseyres holds the speed record
because of all the aero equipment that everyone else has used a well or that
he was superman and should have raced Lance?

So far I'm getting the idea that the sum total IQ here is about a -10.

[billyroll]

Tom Kunich wrote:

>
> Or maybe you ought to just look at the data from wind tunnel research that
> showed that most people have more or less the same drag on a bike with or
> without aero bars unless they're turned exactly right?

Well goddammit. No wonder I've been losing all those pursuits at the
track. I've been turning exactly left all the time - my areo equipment
must have been providing no benefit!

>
> So far I'm getting the idea that the sum total IQ here is about a -10.

To arrive at your sum, I performed the following calculation:
"sum total IQ" = 150 - Kunich

-B

[Simon Brooke]

in message . com>,
billyroll ') wrote:

>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>>
>> Or maybe you ought to just look at the data from wind tunnel research
>> that showed that most people have more or less the same drag on a bike
>> with or without aero bars unless they're turned exactly right?
>
> Well goddammit. No wonder I've been losing all those pursuits at the
> track. I've been turning exactly left all the time - my areo equipment
> must have been providing no benefit!
>
>>
>> So far I'm getting the idea that the sum total IQ here is about a -10.
>
> To arrive at your sum, I performed the following calculation:
> "sum total IQ" = 150 - Kunich

No, no. s/-/+/

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be
twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan
chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.

[billyroll]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> >>
> >> So far I'm getting the idea that the sum total IQ here is about a -10.
> >
> > To arrive at your sum, I performed the following calculation:
> > "sum total IQ" = 150 - Kunich
>
> No, no. s/-/+/
>

Dammit. I credit that mistake to the LiveDrunk philosophy.
--B