Jan's looking pretty damn good!

[Bill C]

Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
Bill C

[amit]

Bill C wrote:
> Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
> the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.


dumbass,

most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.

the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.

I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
the Tour will have.

he always does well because he has really good durability over three
weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.

his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
that, and more spanish drug busts.

[Bill C]

amit wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
> > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
>
> the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
> would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
>
> I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
> bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
> the Tour will have.
>
> he always does well because he has really good durability over three
> weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
>
> his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
> chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
> that, and more spanish drug busts.

Yeah it's definitely going to be a case of limiting his losses on the
climbs, but I think tht's manageable without the Posties to pressure
him relentlessly. I think he should be able to gain enough on the TTs,
especially since they are really focusing on blood doping and the rest.
I think Jan has been pretty clean other than his well documented
mistakes with rec stuff.
Riis can get into his head though so it's going to be a lot of fun to
watch unfold.
Bill C

[Donald Munro]

hizark21 wrote:

> In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
> we have seen in years.

Or Basso and CSC will dominate. Admittedly not likely after all the hard
work at the giro but who knows ?

[Michael Press]

In article
. com>,
"amit" > wrote:

> Bill C wrote:
> > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
> > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
>
> the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
> would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
>
> I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
> bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
> the Tour will have.
>
> he always does well because he has really good durability over three
> weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
>
> his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
> chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
> that, and more spanish drug busts.

When I hear something repeated and quoted by everyone, I
begin to question it. How much time will the Jan loose in
the mountains? Maybe not so much. What if he has a team
pulling him? Nawwwww.

--
Michael Press

[Michael Press]

In article
. com>,
wrote:

> I tend to agree. The key factor is that Jan rode primarilly a defensive
> tds. With the exception of the TT Jan did not launch any major attacks.
> Jan may be able to win the TT's, but I think Basso and other riders can
> chip away at Jan's advantage. I doubt Discovery is strong enough to
> win, but I can see a scenario whereby the align themselves with another
> team. In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
> we have seen in years.

Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
T-Mobile?

> amit wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
> > > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
> >
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
> >
> > the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
> > would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
> >
> > I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
> > bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
> > the Tour will have.
> >
> > he always does well because he has really good durability over three
> > weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
> >
> > his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
> > chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
> > that, and more spanish drug busts.

--
Michael Press

[Kurgan Gringioni]

Michael Press wrote:
>
> When I hear something repeated and quoted by everyone, I
> begin to question it. How much time will the Jan loose in
> the mountains? Maybe not so much. What if he has a team
> pulling him? Nawwwww.




Dumbass -


When T-Mobile had Bjarne Riis riding for them, they won the TdF both
years (once w/ Riis and once w/ Ullrich).

Since then, they haven't been able to do it and not only have they not
been able to win, they've demonstrated a startingly poor grasp of very
basic cycling tactics. It's a perfect situation for Ullrich to continue
his legacy of underachievement when one considers the spectacular
genetic talent he has been blessed with.

Basso rides for Riis and a CSC team that has demonstrated stellar team
unity in one day races, week long stage races, grand tours, you name
it.

Ullrich rides for T-Mobile.

There is a mind boggling difference between the way those two teams
utilize their talent. If Ullrich wins, it won't be because of his team.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[trg]

Ya think? -

http://www.tourdefrancegids.nl/tdf_video_tour.htm

[Simon Brooke]

in message >,
Michael Press ') wrote:

> In article
> . com>,
> "amit" > wrote:
>
>> Bill C wrote:
>> > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
>> > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
>>
>>
>> dumbass,
>>
>> most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
>>
>> the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
>> would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
>>
>> I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
>> bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
>> the Tour will have.
>>
>> he always does well because he has really good durability over three
>> weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
>>
>> his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty
>> good chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole
>> race. that, and more spanish drug busts.
>
> When I hear something repeated and quoted by everyone, I
> begin to question it. How much time will the Jan loose in
> the mountains? Maybe not so much. What if he has a team
> pulling him? Nawwwww.

Both the T-Mo and the CSC squads are very strong. Basso is a very
powerful climber and a good time triallist. Ullrich is a very good time
triallist and a powerful climber. Who will win and who will lose? Basso.
The time gains you can make on the mountain stages are bigger than the
time gains you can make in time trials; and there are more mountain
stages. Basso will win if he doesn't have a bad day or get sick. Basso
will lose if he does. But, barring some horrific crash or another doping
scandal, both will be on the podium at the finish.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care
in the community for you. -- Ben Evans

[Simon Brooke]

in message >,
Michael Press ') wrote:

> In article
> . com>,
> wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree. The key factor is that Jan rode primarilly a
>> defensive tds. With the exception of the TT Jan did not launch any
>> major attacks. Jan may be able to win the TT's, but I think Basso and
>> other riders can chip away at Jan's advantage. I doubt Discovery is
>> strong enough to win, but I can see a scenario whereby the align
>> themselves with another team. In any case I think this years tdf will
>> be one the most exciting we have seen in years.
>
> Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
> Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
> T-Mobile?

Does Discovery now have /any/ riders with the strength to offer help
which will make an effective difference? And, given Discovery's
popularity in the peloton, would Discovery working to help one GC
contender not provoke other teams to help the other?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

[[email protected]]

I agree things could go either way. There is another time between the
Giro and tdf for Basso to adjust his training so that he is not burned
out. My guess is that Basso is stronger at this point.

Donald Munro wrote:
> hizark21 wrote:
>
> > In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
> > we have seen in years.
>
> Or Basso and CSC will dominate. Admittedly not likely after all the hard
> work at the giro but who knows ?

[[email protected]]

I agree things could go either way. There is another time between the
Giro and tdf for Basso to adjust his training so that he is not burned
out. My guess is that Basso is stronger at this point.

Donald Munro wrote:
> hizark21 wrote:
>
> > In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
> > we have seen in years.
>
> Or Basso and CSC will dominate. Admittedly not likely after all the hard
> work at the giro but who knows ?

[[email protected]]

You can be certain that if Discovery will go after some stage wins and
try to win some jersey's. So will work with whatever rider who can
give them a advantage.
Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> . com>,
> wrote:
>
> > I tend to agree. The key factor is that Jan rode primarilly a defensive
> > tds. With the exception of the TT Jan did not launch any major attacks.
> > Jan may be able to win the TT's, but I think Basso and other riders can
> > chip away at Jan's advantage. I doubt Discovery is strong enough to
> > win, but I can see a scenario whereby the align themselves with another
> > team. In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
> > we have seen in years.
>
> Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
> Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
> T-Mobile?
>
> > amit wrote:
> > > Bill C wrote:
> > > > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
> > > > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
> > >
> > >
> > > dumbass,
> > >
> > > most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
> > >
> > > the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
> > > would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
> > >
> > > I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
> > > bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
> > > the Tour will have.
> > >
> > > he always does well because he has really good durability over three
> > > weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
> > >
> > > his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
> > > chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
> > > that, and more spanish drug busts.
>
> --
> Michael Press

[[email protected]]

Discovery has plenty of riders that can affect the GC or win a stage or
2. Discovery has Hincapie, Popovych, Azevedo.
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message >,
> Michael Press ') wrote:
>
> > In article
> > . com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I tend to agree. The key factor is that Jan rode primarilly a
> >> defensive tds. With the exception of the TT Jan did not launch any
> >> major attacks. Jan may be able to win the TT's, but I think Basso and
> >> other riders can chip away at Jan's advantage. I doubt Discovery is
> >> strong enough to win, but I can see a scenario whereby the align
> >> themselves with another team. In any case I think this years tdf will
> >> be one the most exciting we have seen in years.
> >
> > Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
> > Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
> > T-Mobile?
>
> Does Discovery now have /any/ riders with the strength to offer help
> which will make an effective difference? And, given Discovery's
> popularity in the peloton, would Discovery working to help one GC
> contender not provoke other teams to help the other?
>
> --
> (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> [ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

[Jenko]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> When T-Mobile had Bjarne Riis riding for them, they won the TdF both
> years (once w/ Riis and once w/ Ullrich).

Are you saying that the Festina Tour should be removed from history books?

Jenko

[amit]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> Since then, they haven't been able to do it and not only have they not
> been able to win, they've demonstrated a startingly poor grasp of very
> basic cycling tactics. It's a perfect situation for Ullrich to continue
> his legacy of underachievement when one considers the spectacular
> genetic talent he has been blessed with.
>
> Basso rides for Riis and a CSC team that has demonstrated stellar team
> unity in one day races, week long stage races, grand tours, you name
> it.
>
> Ullrich rides for T-Mobile.
>
> There is a mind boggling difference between the way those two teams
> utilize their talent.

dumbass,

make up your mind. you ripped t-mobile for leaving zabel off the tour
roster, which i thought was a justified move considering they should
build a team around winning the GC. discovery's tactic was to always
have only one game plan.

i don't think ullrich and his teams could've beaten armstrong even with
perfect tactics. ullrich himself in all those encounters only once put
significant time into armstrong.

[Simon Brooke]

in message . com>,
') wrote:

[top posting corrected]

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>>
>> Does Discovery now have /any/ riders with the strength to offer help
>> which will make an effective difference? And, given Discovery's
>> popularity in the peloton, would Discovery working to help one GC
>> contender not provoke other teams to help the other?
>
> Discovery has Hincapie, Popovych, Azevedo.

Yes, that's what I was saying...

Although Azevedo, at least, ought to be better than he's been showing
this year. But the rest of them?

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.

[Simon Brooke]

in message . com>,
ronaldo_jeremiah ') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> Both the T-Mo and the CSC squads are very strong. Basso is a very
>> powerful climber and a good time triallist. Ullrich is a very good
>> time triallist and a powerful climber. Who will win and who will lose?
>> Basso. The time gains you can make on the mountain stages are bigger
>> than the time gains you can make in time trials; and there are more
>> mountain stages. Basso will win if he doesn't have a bad day or get
>> sick. Basso will lose if he does. But, barring some horrific crash or
>> another doping scandal, both will be on the podium at the finish.
>
> Please don't candyass. You're new so this is your warning.

Dumbass, you play in the big boys' game, you play by the big boys' rules.
Do your worst, Jeremiad. I defy you!

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 99% of browsers can't run ActiveX controls. Unfortunately
;; 99% of users are using the 1% of browsers that can...
[seen on /. 08:04:02]

[amit]

wrote:

> There appear only 4 days in the mountains that offer a chance for
> climbers to take time, and two of those are questionable. Only the Alp
> d'Huez and the Joux Plane (12 k from the finish) may be steep enough.
> If Ullrich went downhill well at all, he could probably even limit his
> losses on the Joux Plane stage.
>
> The other two mountaintop finishes come on relatively shallow climbs
> (5.5% and 6% averages).

dumbass,

like that matters. the main issue is that it is a mtn. top finish.

> I think it will come down to a battle between Ullrich and Basso, with
> the deciding factor being how much time Ullrich gets in the TTs vs. how
> much time Basso can take in the mountains.

actually i think basso will not lose much time to ullrich in the TT. in
fact basso might even be his equal.

like i said ullrich's trump card will be his durability, basso is still
more likely to have a day where he justs craps the bed.

[Donald Munro]

amit wrote:
> like i said ullrich's trump card will be his durability, basso is still
> more likely to have a day where he justs craps the bed.

I can remember a day when Jan crapped his chamois.

[Simon Brooke]

in message m>,
ronaldo_jeremiah ') wrote:

>
>> > Please don't candyass. You're new so this is your warning.
>>
>> Dumbass, you play in the big boys' game, you play by the big boys'
>> rules. Do your worst, Jeremiad. I defy you!
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Kindly see:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/zp9fu
>
> in relation to:
>
> "Basso will win if he doesn't have a bad day or get sick. Basso will
> lose if he does."

OK, if them's the rules...

1. Ivan Basso (CSC)
2. Jan Ullrich (T-Mo)

I haven't seen who Saunier Duval have on the team sheet for le Tour yet,
but on climbing form I'd say

3. Leonardo Piepoli (SDV)

(and you can't call /that/ candyass). The rest are also-rans. Mind you,
I'd like to see Thomas Voeckler in the yellow for at least a stage, just
for sentimental reasons.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

((DoctorWho)ChristopherEccleston).act();
uk.co.bbc.TypecastException: actor does not want to be typecast.
[adapted from autofile on /., 31/03/05]

[[email protected]]

> 3. Leonardo Piepoli (SDV)

Dumbass,

There are about 10-15 guys who are in with a shot at that 3rd spot,
Piepoli is not riding but if he were, he wouldn't be one of them.
Piepoli is a very good stage hunter in GTs, he's not a GC guy. He'd
lose 5+ minutes in each of the long flat TTs to any of the guys who can
TT well.

[[email protected]]

> > The other two mountaintop finishes come on relatively shallow climbs
> > (5.5% and 6% averages).
>
> dumbass,
>
> like that matters. the main issue is that it is a mtn. top finish.

Dumber dumbass,

Of course it matters, watch the TdS stage finish on the Leukerbad to
see why.

When you've completed your homework assignment, please report back but
not until.

[ronaldo_jeremiah]

wrote:
> > 3. Leonardo Piepoli (SDV)
>
> Dumbass,
>
> There are about 10-15 guys who are in with a shot at that 3rd spot,
> Piepoli is not riding but if he were, he wouldn't be one of them.

Picking someone who isn't on the start list - that's awesome. That's
the total opposite of candyassing.

You get that pick right and you are the man.

-RJ <---- paid for his European vacation with winnings from a fantasy
TdF contest.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> > > The other two mountaintop finishes come on relatively shallow climbs
> > > (5.5% and 6% averages).
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > like that matters. the main issue is that it is a mtn. top finish.
>
> Dumber dumbass,
>
> Of course it matters, watch the TdS stage finish on the Leukerbad to
> see why.
>
> When you've completed your homework assignment, please report back but
> not until.

dumbass,

it's true i did not see that stage, only read about it.

i would say the climbs and the length and pace of the racing leading up
to the mtn. top finish are as important as the pitch of the climb, if
not more important.

looking at the results:

3 Angel Vicioso Arcos (Spa) Würth
0.16
4 Koldo Gil Perez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
0.17
5 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick Step-Innergetic

6 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team

7 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC

8 Jorg Jaksche (Ger) Würth
0.22

either bettini is going to make a run for top 5 in the tdf or ullrich's
climbing is not where it has to be to win the tour.

[[email protected]]

> either bettini is going to make a run for top 5 in the tdf or ullrich's
> climbing is not where it has to be to win the tour.

Dumbass,

Or the climb wasn't steep enough to be selective (it was somewhere
around 5 to 6%). T-mobile drove the pace up the climb at such a tempo
with Guerini, Kirchen and Gerdemann that attacking was pointless.
You'd kill yourself to maybe eke out a handful of seconds while
everyone else sat relatively comfortably in the significant draft
created by the T-mobiles. It was a relatively easy run-up to the
climb, so maybe a harder one will create a different dynamic at the
Tour on the shallow finishing climbs. Regardless, the only guy
climbing better that Ullrich at the TdS was Gil, so he should be able
to defend himself fairly well in the mountains.

[bob sullivan]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> (and you can't call /that/ candyass). The rest are also-rans. Mind you,
> I'd like to see Thomas Voeckler in the yellow for at least a stage, just
> for sentimental reasons.

You and the entire country of France. ;)

~bob

[RonSonic]

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:26:22 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:

>In article
. com>,
> wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree. The key factor is that Jan rode primarilly a defensive
>> tds. With the exception of the TT Jan did not launch any major attacks.
>> Jan may be able to win the TT's, but I think Basso and other riders can
>> chip away at Jan's advantage. I doubt Discovery is strong enough to
>> win, but I can see a scenario whereby the align themselves with another
>> team. In any case I think this years tdf will be one the most exciting
>> we have seen in years.
>
>Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
>Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
>T-Mobile?

In previous years, T-Mobile has had a hard time getting T-Mobile riders to help.

Ron

[RonSonic]

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:22:52 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:

>In article
. com>,
> "amit" > wrote:
>
>> Bill C wrote:
>> > Of course I'm a huge fan of the German teams and riders, along with
>> > the Red Sox, so maybe I'm a little brain damaged.
>>
>>
>> dumbass,
>>
>> most likely you are, but the red sox did win the world series.
>>
>> the last time ullrich won the TdS, schmucks raved about how awesome he
>> would be in the tour and how "ripped" he looked.
>>
>> I would like to see see him do well also, but the tour is not a
>> bodybuilding contest and the TdS does not have the depth of competiton
>> the Tour will have.
>>
>> he always does well because he has really good durability over three
>> weeks, but he's going to lose too much time in the mountains.
>>
>> his one hope is that guys like basso and count floyd have a pretty good
>> chance of having one really bad day where they lose the whole race.
>> that, and more spanish drug busts.
>
>When I hear something repeated and quoted by everyone, I
>begin to question it. How much time will the Jan loose in
>the mountains? Maybe not so much. What if he has a team
>pulling him? Nawwwww.

Let's see, how much time did he lose to Armstrong, who was a much stronger
climber than anyone there this year? Not much, at all.

Ron

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:57:47 GMT, RonSonic >
wrote:

>>Why should alignment go one way or another? Suppose
>>Discovery rendered subtle, or not so subtle help to
>>T-Mobile?
>
>In previous years, T-Mobile has had a hard time getting T-Mobile riders to help.

So are we suggesting that if Discovery helps one or more 'unsupported'
T-Mobile riders, we could have a possibility of another class of
virtual victories - say, a Kloden virtual Discovery victory?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...