Cyclist arrested for taking the lane

[Critic]

I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That is
one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of a
motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
with a 2-ton pick-up?


http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

[Doug Huffman]

I ANAL I am not a lawyer.

I am an armed bicyclist and have CCW for more than four years (just renewed
my permit).

Line by line....

"...charged with attempted homicide, aggravated assault and weapons
offenses." He certainly did these things. Note that the assault was the
'wave' and the weapons offenses are likely the manner that he carried.
There is no indication that they are status violations, i.e., that he is a
felon disbarred of his 2A Rights.

"...when he drove past him in his pickup truck Saturday, he made an obscene
gesture." Possibly true but improvable without witnesses. If you 'wave'
while armed or unarmed then make it a full five fingered wave. Let 'em read
between the lines if they're literate. If they are not literate then they
are dumb enough to 'turn around'. The first element of common law
self-defense is 'be innocent of instigation'.

"...turned around and drove toward,..." this is an assault. A reasonable
man felt threatened and in imminent danger of great bodily harm from an
instrumentality with means and motive.

"...pulled out a pistol and threatened to shoot,..." Mistake. Keep the
pistol concealed until you MUST shoot and then shoot without hesitation. To
do otherwise leads to this current situation or at least charges of
'brandishing'.

"reached into the truck and shot [him] once in the arm" The key statement
of the article. If the driver stopped then he was not innocent and did not
attempt to retreat or even to secure himself by locking and rolling up the
windows. The driver did not feel threatened and had little 'respect' for
the cyclist. The case will hang on the factual basis for this statement by
the reporter.

"...rode away on his bike." Fleeing or retreating from further combat?

"...rammed Urick off his bike and they fought briefly until Urick fled
again." The driver should face charges.

"...told him to get off the road." I regard this as an assault in my
personal life and immediately evaluate my self-defense status.

An automobile is a deadly weapon. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades
as common sense.



"Critic" > wrote in message
...
| I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That
is
| one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of
a
| motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
| with a 2-ton pick-up?
|
|
| http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html
|
|
|

[Dick Durbin]

"Critic" > wrote in message >...
> I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That is
> one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of a
> motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
> with a 2-ton pick-up?
>
> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

Gimme a hint. How did you come up with that subject line based on the
newspaper article? The guy was arrested for shooting the driver.

Dick Durbin

[Jym Dyer]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

=v= I ain't taking sides one way or another, but I will point
out that the article's lead-in isn't particularly fair:

| ... a confrontation that began when the man pedaling the bike
| made an obscene gesture, police said.

It's unfair because the bicyclist's version of events is that
the confrontation began before that: when the motorist told
him to get off the road.

=v= Also unclear is whose deadly weapon was wielded first:

> Nicoletti said he turned around and drove toward Urick ...

=v= Also, another story differs in some details:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04040/270970.stm

<_Jym_>

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...
>I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That is
>one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of a
>motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
>with a 2-ton pick-up?
>http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

He wasn't arrested for taking the lane, he was arrested for shooting someone
else. The article does not have enough information to really tell what
happened.
------------
Alex

[Bill Z.]

Alex Rodriguez > writes:

> In article >,
> says...
> >I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That is
> >one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of a
> >motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
> >with a 2-ton pick-up?
> >http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html
>
> He wasn't arrested for taking the lane, he was arrested for shooting someone
> else. The article does not have enough information to really tell what
> happened.

Oh, I can make a guess what happened, based on personal experience with
aggressive drivers. I once filed a criminal complaint against a driver
who made multiple attempts to run me off the road or worse, and our
f___wit district attorney refused to prosecute and lied to me repeatedly
when I merely tried to find out the status of the case. They didn't
even have the decency to answer a simple yes/no question about whether
they would prosecute him or not.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

[Critic]

"Dick Durbin" > wrote in message
om...
> "Critic" > wrote in message
>...
> > I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did.
That is
> > one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard
of a
> > motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
> > with a 2-ton pick-up?
> >
> > http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html
>
> Gimme a hint. How did you come up with that subject line based on the
> newspaper article? The guy was arrested for shooting the driver.
>
> Dick Durbin

Here's how. The driver of the vehicle crowded the cyclist, and when the
cyclist responded with a gesture of disapproval, the driver, instead of just
driving off turned around and threatened the cyclist who was forced to
defend himself. The driver then, once again, tried to run the cyclist down
with his vehicle. The whole problem,
from the hillbilly's point of view, is that this cyclist was on HIS road
taking up HIS LANE!

DO YOU RIDE? Do you have any idea how many dumb**** hillbillies in pickup
trucks have no regard for the rules of the road and intentionally try to
harm cyclists? (I do because it has happened to me.)

[Dick Durbin]

"Critic" > wrote in message >...
> > Gimme a hint. How did you come up with that subject line based on the
> > newspaper article? The guy was arrested for shooting the driver.

> Here's how. The driver of the vehicle crowded the cyclist, and when the
> cyclist responded with a gesture of disapproval, the driver, instead of just
> driving off turned around and threatened the cyclist who was forced to
> defend himself. The driver then, once again, tried to run the cyclist down
> with his vehicle. The whole problem,
> from the hillbilly's point of view, is that this cyclist was on HIS road
> taking up HIS LANE!
>
> DO YOU RIDE? Do you have any idea how many dumb**** hillbillies in pickup
> trucks have no regard for the rules of the road and intentionally try to
> harm cyclists? (I do because it has happened to me.)

You ignored my question. The cyclist was arrested for shooting the
truck driver, not for taking the lane. Whether he was justified in
shooting the driver will be up to the courts to decide.

Yes, I ride. I have a lot less trouble with guys in pickumup trucks
than I do with self-important Stepford wives in SUVs or gangsta
wannabees in Honda Civics.

Dick Durbin

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...
>"Dick Durbin" > wrote in message
om...
>> "Critic" > wrote in message
>...
>> > I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did.
>That is
>> > one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard
>of a
>> > motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
>> > with a 2-ton pick-up?
>> >
>> > http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html
>>
>> Gimme a hint. How did you come up with that subject line based on the
>> newspaper article? The guy was arrested for shooting the driver.
>>
>> Dick Durbin
>
>Here's how. The driver of the vehicle crowded the cyclist,

I must have missed that part of the article.

>and when the
>cyclist responded with a gesture of disapproval, the driver, instead of just
>driving off turned around and threatened the cyclist who was forced to
>defend himself. The driver then, once again, tried to run the cyclist down
>with his vehicle. The whole problem,
>from the hillbilly's point of view, is that this cyclist was on HIS road
>taking up HIS LANE!

I also missed the part in the article that said the cyclist was in a lane
of traffic. For all we know, he could have been riding on the shoulder
the whole time. No way to tell from the article.

-------------
Alex

[onefred]

"Critic" > wrote in message
...
> I have to admit I have often felt like doing what this cyclist did. That
is
> one reason I now only ride off-road. When was the last time you heard of
a
> motorist being chaged with attempted homicide for running down a cyclist
> with a 2-ton pick-up?
>
>
> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

Hey guys, first tell me what kind of person rides his bicycle with a friggin
pistol??? That's CRAZY!

DAve

[Mitch Haley]

onefred wrote:
> Hey guys, first tell me what kind of person rides his bicycle with a friggin
> pistol??? That's CRAZY!

What's crazy about it?
Bike cops do it every day, are they "CRAZY"?

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:34:19 -0600 in rec.bicycles.soc, "onefred"
> wrote:

> Hey guys, first tell me what kind of person rides his bicycle with a friggin
> pistol??? That's CRAZY!
>
why would you say that? in many parts of the country, it's
perfectly legal. in some parts of some cities, it's probably
smart to do so.

[Bill Z.]

(Dennis P. Harris) writes:

> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:34:19 -0600 in rec.bicycles.soc, "onefred"
> > wrote:
>
> > Hey guys, first tell me what kind of person rides his bicycle with
> > a friggin pistol??? That's CRAZY!
> >
> why would you say that? in many parts of the country, it's
> perfectly legal. in some parts of some cities, it's probably
> smart to do so.

I once read about a guy who said he carried a gun while riding on
rural roads in the Central Valley. It seems drunks in pickup trucks
liked to harass cyclists on rural roads where there would be no
witnesses around, using a vehicle to intimidate the cyclists. The
cyclist is outnumbered and the drunks have a dangerous weapon (which
is what they are using their pickup truck as.)

Hopefully if the gun were actually used, it would be to shoot out the
tires so the cyclist could get away safely without having to shoot the
drunks. If you take a gun along, you can't afford to let a group of
drunks take it from you, and might have to use it to stop them from
doing that. You should carefully evaluate that possibility before
deciding to bring one along - going through some contingency planning
might very well convince you that carrying a weapon isn't worth it.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

[Tommy Cheatham]

Doug Huffman wrote:

> I ANAL I am not a lawyer.
>
> I am an armed bicyclist and have CCW for more than four years (just renewed
> my permit).

I've got a CCW too, but quick question... how do you carry while
riding? The easiest way to me seems like it would be small of the back,
but then it seems it would be harder to conceal since you lean over the
bike.

Before I start any serious road riding, I'd definitely like to figure
this out, since I'll be riding back roads in KY.

[Tommy Cheatham]

Bill Z. wrote:

> Hopefully if the gun were actually used, it would be to shoot out the
> tires so the cyclist could get away safely without having to shoot the
> drunks.

Tires are not terribly easy to hit. If a group of people are attacking
you, it is considered a deadly attack and you have the right to respond
in kind (according to KY law, anyway, it likely varies in other area).


If you take a gun along, you can't afford to let a group of
> drunks take it from you, and might have to use it to stop them from
> doing that.

The interesting thing about having a gun is that the barrel is usually
aimed toward the people who would take it. If you aren't prepared to
use it, don't carry it or draw it. Just because you have one with you
doesn't mean you need to pull it out in every situation, either.

> You should carefully evaluate that possibility before
> deciding to bring one along - going through some contingency planning
> might very well convince you that carrying a weapon isn't worth it.

I would say that me surviving is "worth it". Contingency planning
should include training. No one should carry who isn't familiar with
the use of a firearm and practiced with using it.

[Dane Jackson]

Tommy Cheatham > wrote:
> Doug Huffman wrote:

>> I ANAL I am not a lawyer.
>>
>> I am an armed bicyclist and have CCW for more than four years (just renewed
>> my permit).

> I've got a CCW too, but quick question... how do you carry while
> riding? The easiest way to me seems like it would be small of the back,
> but then it seems it would be harder to conceal since you lean over the
> bike.

> Before I start any serious road riding, I'd definitely like to figure
> this out, since I'll be riding back roads in KY.

I would think a frame bag would do, something maybe that looks like this:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=6799&storetype=&estoreid=

http://tinyurl.com/3das6

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough
to take it all away.
-- Barry Goldwater

[Tommy Cheatham]

> Tommy Cheatham > wrote:

>>I've got a CCW too, but quick question... how do you carry while
>>riding? The easiest way to me seems like it would be small of the back,
>>but then it seems it would be harder to conceal since you lean over the
>>bike.
>
Dane Jackson wrote:
> I would think a frame bag would do, something maybe that looks like this:
>
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=6799&storetype=&estoreid=


Yeah, it probably would, but I'd rather actually keep it ON me. If I'm
going to assume that something bad might hppen, I'm also going to assume
that something bad might happen and separate me from the bike.