Don't Watch the Tour de France

[Tom Kunich]

All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound to be
SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone who races
bicycles dopes.

So just say NO and don't watch it.

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

"Tom Kunich" > wrote in
k.net:

> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound
> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
> who races bicycles dopes.
>
> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>
>
>

I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in the
sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews asking
for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.

[Donald Munro]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound to be
> SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone who races
> bicycles dopes.
>
> So just say NO and don't watch it.

You can always play Cycling Manager X on your computer instead.

[Mike]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:46:10 +0200, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis"
> wrote:

>
>I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
>will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
>innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in the
>sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews asking
>for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
>surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.

The day doping and cheating is removed from cycling is the day hell
freezes over.


--

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
> k.net:
>
>> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
>> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound
>> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
>> who races bicycles dopes.
>>
>> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
> will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
> innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in the
> sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews
> asking
> for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
> surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.

I agree with you.
The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
Excellent news.
I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.

We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and others, this
half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.

I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind, flushed,
scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they were the true
champions.

Well done !

[trg]

<Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
...
|
| "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de news:
| ...
| > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
| > k.net:
| >
| >> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
| >> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound
| >> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
| >> who races bicycles dopes.
| >>
| >> So just say NO and don't watch it.
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >
| > I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
| > will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
| > innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in
the
| > sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews
| > asking
| > for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
| > surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.
|
| I agree with you.
| The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
| Excellent news.
| I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.
|
| We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and others,
this
| half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.
|
| I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind, flushed,
| scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they were the true
| champions.
|
| Well done !
|

You really are naive, aren't you? If you believe that the Ullrichs and
Bassos win just because they dope, then you have to believe that the ones
who finished an hour behind would have finished two hours behind if they
weren't also doped. Look at the names in the list. There weren't only
Ullrich and Basso, but also people like Carlos Zarate, Antonio Olmo, Javier
Cherro, Jose Bonilla, ... These are the guys who finish an hour behind,
these are your "true champions".

"trg" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> <Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> |
> | "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de
> news:
> | ...
> | > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
> | > k.net:
> | >
> | >> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest
> you
> | >> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's
> bound
> | >> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
> | >> who races bicycles dopes.
> | >>
> | >> So just say NO and don't watch it.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >>
> | >
> | > I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been
> or
> | > will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest
> is
> | > innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in
> the
> | > sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews
> | > asking
> | > for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
> | > surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.
> |
> | I agree with you.
> | The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
> | Excellent news.
> | I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.
> |
> | We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and others,
> this
> | half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.
> |
> | I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind,
> flushed,
> | scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they were the true
> | champions.
> |
> | Well done !
> |
>
> You really are naive, aren't you? If you believe that the Ullrichs and
> Bassos win just because they dope, then you have to believe that the ones
> who finished an hour behind would have finished two hours behind if they
> weren't also doped. Look at the names in the list. There weren't only
> Ullrich and Basso, but also people like Carlos Zarate, Antonio Olmo,
> Javier
> Cherro, Jose Bonilla, ... These are the guys who finish an hour behind,
> these are your "true champions".
>
>

Strange is the way people like you try to justify the cheaters.

I want a clean TDF, just a clean TDF, were the winner will win thanks to his
effort, not thanks to any medecine, drug or anything illicit.

Sorry, but I am not naive in asking it.

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

"trg" > wrote in
:

> <Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
>|
>| "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de
>| news: ...
>| > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
>| > k.net:
>| >
>| >> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest
>| >> you simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway.
>| >> There's bound to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to
>| >> Lafferty everyone who races bicycles dopes.
>| >>
>| >> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>| >>
>| >>
>| >>
>| >
>| > I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have
>| > been or will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to
>| > assume the rest is innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so
>| > I can bury my head in
> the
>| > sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to
>| > cyclingnews asking
>| > for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there
>| > will surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make
>| > up.
>|
>| I agree with you.
>| The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
>| Excellent news.
>| I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.
>|
>| We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and
>| others,
> this
>| half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.
>|
>| I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind,
>| flushed, scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they
>| were the true champions.
>|
>| Well done !
>|
>
> You really are naive, aren't you?

I choose to be viciously naive. People were like that in 1999 and 2000,
and now I'll be like that. After all *my* guys are innocent until proven
guilty, and nobody can guarantee me that the chain of custody was
maintained.

> If you believe that the Ullrichs and
> Bassos win just because they dope, then you have to believe that the
> ones who finished an hour behind would have finished two hours behind
> if they weren't also doped.

Well, do you have any proof? Is it true that because two guys doped, all
the rest - who were actually slower - also did it?

> Look at the names in the list. There
> weren't only Ullrich and Basso, but also people like Carlos Zarate,
> Antonio Olmo, Javier Cherro, Jose Bonilla, ... These are the guys who
> finish an hour behind, these are your "true champions".

They're just not my guys. I think I'll enjoy this tour and applaud its
rightful winner. It still won't be Moncoutié, but we can't have
everything, can we? I like Popovych, and Landis, and Valverde, and
especially Cunego. They have a chance.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Jonathan v.d.
Sluis ') wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
> k.net:
>
>> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
>> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound
>> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
>> who races bicycles dopes.
>>
>> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>
> I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been
> or will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the
> rest is innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my
> head in the sand this time.

Oh, don't be so ridiculous.

One doping clinic has been raided. One. Do you think it was the only one?

I'm going to watch it, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it... but I'm not stupid
enough to believe this is the end of the doping story.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

[Jonathan v.d. Sluis]

Simon Brooke > wrote in news:llcfn3-bk1.ln1
@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:

> in message >, Jonathan v.d.
> Sluis ') wrote:
>
>> "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
>> k.net:
>>
>>> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest
you
>>> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's
bound
>>> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
>>> who races bicycles dopes.
>>>
>>> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>>
>> I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been
>> or will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the
>> rest is innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my
>> head in the sand this time.
>
> Oh, don't be so ridiculous.
>
> One doping clinic has been raided. One. Do you think it was the only
one?

If I start thinking, I'm going to enjoy the race less. And besides, the
ridiculous defense Armstrong got never seemed to be the product of a fair
amount of thought either.

>
> I'm going to watch it, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it... but I'm not stupid
> enough to believe this is the end of the doping story.
>

If I need excuses to defend my heroes, I'll just type in 'Hamilton' or
'Armstrong' in google. There's enough crap there to last any cyclist
until the true finish line: retirement.

[Donald Munro]

Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:
>>I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
>>will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
>>innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in the
>>sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews asking
>>for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
>>surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.

Mike wrote:
> The day doping and cheating is removed from cycling is the day hell
> freezes over.

Or americans grok irony.

[Donald Munro]

Montesquiou wrote:
> I want a clean TDF, just a clean TDF, were the winner will win thanks to his
> effort, not thanks to any medecine, drug or anything illicit.

So what year was the last clean TDF ?

[benjo maso]

"Donald Munro" > wrote in message
. com...
> Montesquiou wrote:
>> I want a clean TDF, just a clean TDF, were the winner will win thanks to
>> his
>> effort, not thanks to any medecine, drug or anything illicit.
>
> So what year was the last clean TDF ?

1902?

Benjo

[Jonathan D. Proulx]

benjo maso wrote:


>> So what year was the last clean TDF ?
>
> 1902?

Cocaine? though that might have been legal at the time <shrug>

[Sandy]

Jonathan D. Proulx a écrit :
> benjo maso wrote:
>
>
>
>>> So what year was the last clean TDF ?
>>>
>> 1902?
>>
>
> Cocaine? though that might have been legal at the time <shrug>
>
>
On the other hand, Paris-Roubaix is almost never clean.

[benjo maso]

"Jonathan D. Proulx" > wrote in message
...
> benjo maso wrote:
>
>
>>> So what year was the last clean TDF ?
>>
>> 1902?
>
> Cocaine? though that might have been legal at the time <shrug>


It was legal. But since the first Tour was in 1903...

Benjo

[Preston Crawford]

On 2006-06-30, Tom Kunich > wrote:
> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound to be
> SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone who races
> bicycles dopes.
>
> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>
>

I'm actually thinking about trying this doping apologist thing out that
you got going on. I've been meditating on not caring about doping and
hoping that that makes it easy to watch the tour. I can laugh when they
talk 50% of the time about doping instead of racing. I can get angry
when someone gets DQ'd. I'm trying hard to see the world through your
eyes.

Preston

[Preston Crawford]

On 2006-06-30, trg > wrote:
><Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
>|
>| "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de news:
>| ...
>| > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
>| > k.net:
>| >
>| >> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
>| >> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound
>| >> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone
>| >> who races bicycles dopes.
>| >>
>| >> So just say NO and don't watch it.
>| >>
>| >>
>| >>
>| >
>| > I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have been or
>| > will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the rest is
>| > innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head in
> the
>| > sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews
>| > asking
>| > for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there will
>| > surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.
>|
>| I agree with you.
>| The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
>| Excellent news.
>| I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.
>|
>| We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and others,
> this
>| half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.
>|
>| I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind, flushed,
>| scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they were the true
>| champions.
>|
>| Well done !
>|
>
> You really are naive, aren't you? If you believe that the Ullrichs and
> Bassos win just because they dope, then you have to believe that the ones
> who finished an hour behind would have finished two hours behind if they
> weren't also doped. Look at the names in the list. There weren't only
> Ullrich and Basso, but also people like Carlos Zarate, Antonio Olmo, Javier
> Cherro, Jose Bonilla, ... These are the guys who finish an hour behind,
> these are your "true champions".
>
>

But that's part of what makes it unfortunate and why *some* of us want a
clean sport. Pretend the dopers who are elites don't dope. And the rest
of the GC doesn't dope as well. The outcome probably would be the same,
as you suggest. But at least we would know for sure. That's why some of
us would prefer the sport be clean.

Preston

[[email protected]]

Tom,

Forget watching the race. What the hell is Phil Ligget supposed to
****ing SAY tomorrow? How can he even ****ing concentrate and manage
to take the race seriously? How can WE take the race seriously?





Tom Kunich wrote:
> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest you
> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's bound to be
> SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty everyone who races
> bicycles dopes.
>
> So just say NO and don't watch it.

[RonSonic]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:39:36 +0200, "benjo maso" > wrote:

>
>"Jonathan D. Proulx" > wrote in message
...
>> benjo maso wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> So what year was the last clean TDF ?
>>>
>>> 1902?
>>
>> Cocaine? though that might have been legal at the time <shrug>
>
>
>It was legal. But since the first Tour was in 1903...

Back then brandy and strychnine was the in thing, wasn't it.

Ron

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:02:40 +0100, Mike > wrote:

>The day doping and cheating is removed from cycling is the day hell
>freezes over.

After spending a winter refueling planes at the Lansing, Michigan
airport in early morning, my vision of hell, in the unlikely event
that it exists, is that it pretty much is always freezing. And
starting each morning listening to some radio weather guy go, "Well,
the winds are gusting to 40 mph and the temperatures are off the wind
chill chart."

I reacheed the point that my sole desire in life was to find that
sunnabitch and drag him into a snowbank and watch him freeze to death.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Marlene Blanshay]

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:02:40 +0100, Mike > wrote:
>
>
>>The day doping and cheating is removed from cycling is the day hell
>>freezes over.
>
>
> After spending a winter refueling planes at the Lansing, Michigan
> airport in early morning, my vision of hell, in the unlikely event
> that it exists, is that it pretty much is always freezing. And
> starting each morning listening to some radio weather guy go, "Well,
> the winds are gusting to 40 mph and the temperatures are off the wind
> chill chart."
>
> I reacheed the point that my sole desire in life was to find that
> sunnabitch and drag him into a snowbank and watch him freeze to death.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

isn't Hell supposedt to be dark and cold and the flames don't emit any
light? That's what I remember from Milton...

[Donald Munro]

Marlene Blanshay wrote:
> isn't Hell supposedt to be dark and cold and the flames don't emit any
> light? That's what I remember from Milton...

They got cold fusion in hell ?

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Forget watching the race. What the hell is Phil Ligget supposed to
> ****ing SAY tomorrow? How can he even ****ing concentrate and manage
> to take the race seriously? How can WE take the race seriously?

That was the point I was trying to make during the Dauphine. When I got
castigated by Tom amongst others. Forget whether it's right or wrong to
dope. Put that aside. Is it any fun watching a sport where part of the
fun is the banter of the announcers, and then they have to spend half
the time talking about doping? It's going to be ridiculous.

Preston

[MJ Ray]

> Forget watching the race. What the hell is Phil Ligget supposed to
> ****ing SAY tomorrow? How can he even ****ing concentrate and manage
> to take the race seriously? How can WE take the race seriously?

Phil Liggett take the race seriously??? Now that would require drugs.

--
MJR/slef

[Donald Munro]

>> Forget watching the race. What the hell is Phil Ligget supposed to
>> ****ing SAY tomorrow? How can he even ****ing concentrate and manage
>> to take the race seriously? How can WE take the race seriously?

MJ Ray wrote:
> Phil Liggett take the race seriously??? Now that would require drugs.

At least he'll have something to fill the gaps where he used to say LANCE
in every second sentence.

[trg]

<Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
...
|
| "trg" > a écrit dans le message de news:
| ...
| > <Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
| > ...
| > |
| > | "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" > a écrit dans le message de
| > news:
| > | ...
| > | > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in
| > | > k.net:
| > | >
| > | >> All you people who are so focused on the doping scandal. I suggest
| > you
| > | >> simply don't want the Tour. You wouldn't like it anyway. There's
| > bound
| > | >> to be SOMEONE who might have doped. Or according to Lafferty
everyone
| > | >> who races bicycles dopes.
| > | >>
| > | >> So just say NO and don't watch it.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | > I'm going to watch it and enjoy it. After all, the cheaters have
been
| > or
| > | > will be removed. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the
rest
| > is
| > | > innocent. My heroes are not being implicated, so I can bury my head
in
| > the
| > | > sand this time. Who knows, I might even send a letter to cyclingnews
| > | > asking
| > | > for heavier bans. Should someone I like be involved anyway, there
will
| > | > surely be something about unknown chains of custody I can make up.
| > |
| > | I agree with you.
| > | The cheaters, one by one are been denounced.
| > | Excellent news.
| > | I had lost my interrest on the TDF in the past years.
| > |
| > | We were tired to see this doped Armstrong, Ulrich, Virenque and
others,
| > this
| > | half-human - half Robocop, to climb the Tourmalet as it was a slope.
| > |
| > | I think that the true runners, the one who were one hour behind,
| > flushed,
| > | scarlet but clean, have now a better chance to show they were the true
| > | champions.
| > |
| > | Well done !
| > |
| >
| > You really are naive, aren't you? If you believe that the Ullrichs and
| > Bassos win just because they dope, then you have to believe that the
ones
| > who finished an hour behind would have finished two hours behind if they
| > weren't also doped. Look at the names in the list. There weren't only
| > Ullrich and Basso, but also people like Carlos Zarate, Antonio Olmo,
| > Javier
| > Cherro, Jose Bonilla, ... These are the guys who finish an hour behind,
| > these are your "true champions".
| >
| >
|
| Strange is the way people like you try to justify the cheaters.

I say get rid of cheaters. But prove they are cheaters, don't just assume so
because they do well, or conversely that they're clean because they don't do
well. Your naiveté consists in believing that only the "tetes d'affiche"
dope. The ProTour domestique that never wins might just as easily be doping
because he believes (rightly or wrongly) that he wouldn't have gotten above
a continental team if he didn't.


Strange the way people like you think they can tell who is doping and who
isn't based on their results.

[[email protected]]

Who the hell are those insane Basque fans supposed to run alongside
now? Frenchmen? Americans?

Donald Munro wrote:
>
> >> Forget watching the race. What the hell is Phil Ligget supposed to
> >> ****ing SAY tomorrow? How can he even ****ing concentrate and manage
> >> to take the race seriously? How can WE take the race seriously?
>
> MJ Ray wrote:
> > Phil Liggett take the race seriously??? Now that would require drugs.
>
> At least he'll have something to fill the gaps where he used to say LANCE
> in every second sentence.

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Marlene Blanshay > wrote:

> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> > On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:02:40 +0100, Mike > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The day doping and cheating is removed from cycling is the day hell
> >>freezes over.
> >
> >
> > After spending a winter refueling planes at the Lansing, Michigan
> > airport in early morning, my vision of hell, in the unlikely event
> > that it exists, is that it pretty much is always freezing. And
> > starting each morning listening to some radio weather guy go, "Well,
> > the winds are gusting to 40 mph and the temperatures are off the wind
> > chill chart."
> >
> > I reacheed the point that my sole desire in life was to find that
> > sunnabitch and drag him into a snowbank and watch him freeze to death.
> >
> > Curtis L. Russell
> > Odenton, MD (USA)
> > Just someone on two wheels...
>
> isn't Hell supposedt to be dark and cold and the flames don't emit any
> light? That's what I remember from Milton...

Then there is The Inferno by Dante Alighier.

Canto XXXII

....

I heard a voice cry: 'Watch which way you turn:
take care you do not trample on the heads
of the forsworn and miserable brethren."

Wherat I turned and saw beneath my feet
and stretching out ahead, a lake so frozen
it seemed to be made of glass. So thick a sheet

never yet hid the Danube's winter course,
nor, far away beneath the frigid sky,
locked the Don up in its frozen source:

for were Tanbernick and the enormous peak
Pietrapana to crash down on it,
not even the edges would so much as creak.

The way frogs sit to croak, their muszzles leaning
out of the water, at the time and season
when the peasant woman dreams of her day's gleaning--

Just so the livid dead are sealed in place
up to the part at which they blushed for shame,
and they beat their teeth like storks. Each holds his face

bowed toward the ice, each of them testifies
to the cold with his chattering mouth, so his heart's grief
with tears that flood forever from his eyes.

--
Michael Press

[Michael Press]

In article >,
Preston Crawford > wrote:

> But that's part of what makes it unfortunate and why *some* of us want a
> clean sport.

And I want a pony. Come out into the cold. No sport is clean.

> Pretend the dopers who are elites don't dope. And the rest
> of the GC doesn't dope as well. The outcome probably would be the same,
> as you suggest. But at least we would know for sure. That's why some of
> us would prefer the sport be clean.

--
Michael Press

[MMan]

wrote:
> Who the hell are those insane Basque fans supposed to run alongside
> now? Frenchmen? Americans?

It won't be Kazakhs, that's for sure.

[Donald Munro]

Michael Press wrote:
> And I want a pony. Come out into the cold. No sport is clean.

What do you want with a pony ? Should the animal protection agencies get
involved.

[Dan Gregory]

wrote:
> Who the hell are those insane Basque fans supposed to run alongside
> now? Frenchmen? Americans?

Basques
Euskadi
they never supported the Spanish
Euskadi ta Atasuna!