Flat tire due to Sharp Metal

[Roger Zoul]

Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.

Is this tire toast now?

[Marz]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?

Toast, unless the hole is tiny, less than 1mm. And even then I'd be
looking to replace it pretty soon.


Laters,

Marz

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
"Roger Zoul" > writes:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?

Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.

But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.

One thing to watch out for is dumpsters by construction sites.
I give them a wide berth. There's often little bits of flashing
trimmings lying on the ground around them. Those things
are especially nasty.

Kevlar might be bulletproof, but it sure ain't knifeproof.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

[[email protected]]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?

Depends on the size of the hole. What kind of sharp
piece of metal are we talking about here? Unless the
hole is large enough that it allows the tube to balloon
through and make contact with the road surface, the
tire is probably fine. Even then, it could likely be saved
with a 'boot' as Tom mentions. I have had a few flats
from nails, for instance--simply patched the tube and
rode onward with no noticeable ill effects. Tires are
tough, generally speaking.

Robert

[gds]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?

I know folks have sed a variety of materials to make boots but Park
sells a patch like boot material that works great. I've had some of
these covering cuts caused by glass and they have been holding fine for
several hundred miles.

[Pat Lamb]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?

Probably. You may be able to boot the tire, but you need to do
something there. If you don't, the flexing tire will use the hole to
chew through the tube, resulting in more flats.

Pat

[Leo Lichtman]

"Pat Lamb" wrote: (clip) you need to do something there. If you don't, the
flexing tire will use the hole to
> chew through the tube, resulting in more flats.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One suggestion: let the patch serve as a sort of boot. Just be sure to
remount the tire and tube with the same orientation as it came off. Maybe
using an automotive patch, instead of the tiny bike ones, would give a
little extra support.

[Ken C. M.]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is a
> hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a
> brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?
>
>

I had the same thing happen to a brand new panaracer kevlar belted tire.
I just put a piece of duct tape on the inside of the tire. I haven't had
any problems with it yet.

Ken
--
The bicycle is just as good company as most husbands and, when it gets
old and shabby, a woman can dispose of it and get a new one without
shocking the entire community. ~Ann Strong

[Roger Zoul]

Marz wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
:::
::: Is this tire toast now?
::
:: Toast, unless the hole is tiny, less than 1mm. And even then I'd be
:: looking to replace it pretty soon.

The hole is about 5 mm long overall, with 3mm of that being along the center
axis of the tire and the rest at a 45 deg angle toward one side.

[Roger Zoul]

Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article >,
:: "Roger Zoul" > writes:
::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
:::
::: Is this tire toast now?
::
:: Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
:: I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
:: of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.
::
:: But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
:: nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
:: So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
:: you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.
::

Yeah, and it is bugging me right now thinking about this. Dammit.

:: One thing to watch out for is dumpsters by construction sites.
:: I give them a wide berth. There's often little bits of flashing
:: trimmings lying on the ground around them. Those things
:: are especially nasty.
::
:: Kevlar might be bulletproof, but it sure ain't knifeproof.

Right! this was a flat, sharp piece of metal with the smaller width end
sticking out and the larger end inside the tire. Interestingly, the tube
shows what looks like a pinch flat (two tiny pin-head holes about 1mm apart)
at the outer seam about 2.5 inches from the stem. Also, there is one tiny
hole just opposite the other two but along the inner seam. However, the hole
in the tire is about 180 deg opposite the stem location. Perhaps I rotated
the tire while changing the tube?

[Roger Zoul]

wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
:::
::: Is this tire toast now?
::
:: Depends on the size of the hole.

In the tire, about 3 mm of it is along the center line of the tire with
about 2mm going off at a 45 deg angle, more or less.

:: What kind of sharp
:: piece of metal are we talking about here?

Flat, wider end inside the tire narrower end sticking out. Not quite
triangular.

Unless the
:: hole is large enough that it allows the tube to balloon
:: through and make contact with the road surface, the
:: tire is probably fine. Even then, it could likely be saved
:: with a 'boot' as Tom mentions. I have had a few flats
:: from nails, for instance--simply patched the tube and
:: rode onward with no noticeable ill effects. Tires are
:: tough, generally speaking.

I guess I could try booting it. I do have 3 other tires that I could put on
there. It's just that its brand new, probably not even 100 miles on it yet.

[Roger Zoul]

gds wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
:::
::: Is this tire toast now?
::
:: I know folks have sed a variety of materials to make boots but Park
:: sells a patch like boot material that works great. I've had some of
:: these covering cuts caused by glass and they have been holding fine
:: for several hundred miles.

What if I just used the patch material that ones uses on an inner tube, just
applied to the inside of the tire?

[Roger Zoul]

Leo Lichtman wrote:
:: "Pat Lamb" wrote: (clip) you need to do something there. If you
:: don't, the flexing tire will use the hole to
::: chew through the tube, resulting in more flats.
:: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:: One suggestion: let the patch serve as a sort of boot. Just be
:: sure to remount the tire and tube with the same orientation as it
:: came off. Maybe using an automotive patch, instead of the tiny bike
:: ones, would give a little extra support.

What do you mean by "remount the tire and tube with the same orientation as
it came off." ?

I would simply use the tube patch material on the inner surface of the tire
opposite the hole. Obviously, I'd just put a new tube in the tire.

[Roger Zoul]

Ken C. M. wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
:::
::: Is this tire toast now?
:::
:::
::
:: I had the same thing happen to a brand new panaracer kevlar belted
:: tire. I just put a piece of duct tape on the inside of the tire. I
:: haven't had any problems with it yet.
::

Thanks. I may try this or something similar.

[Leo Lichtman]

"Roger Zoul" wrote: What do you mean by "remount the tire and tube with the
same orientation as
> it came off." ?
>
> I would simply use the tube patch material on the inner surface of the
> tire opposite the hole. Obviously, I'd just put a new tube in the tire.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was thinking the tube might be repairable. If you opatch the tube, and
put it back in the same position, the patch acts as a sort of boot. If the
tube is beyond repair, then obviously what I said does not apply.

[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:30:56 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
> wrote:

>Marz wrote:
>:: Roger Zoul wrote:
>::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
>::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
>::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>:::
>::: Is this tire toast now?
>::
>:: Toast, unless the hole is tiny, less than 1mm. And even then I'd be
>:: looking to replace it pretty soon.
>
>The hole is about 5 mm long overall, with 3mm of that being along the center
>axis of the tire and the rest at a 45 deg angle toward one side.

Although you can probably get away with booting it in that area, and
might further extend its utility via a little reinforcement by sewing,
I'd replace it and ride with fewer worries.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[nash]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road. There is
> a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the side wall). It's
> a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
>
> Is this tire toast now?
Same tire but somebody knifed the sidewall. I covered it with a dime and
duck tape. Works beautifully. Then the bike got stolen a month later.
Geez Louise.

thank-you

[nash]

:: I had the same thing happen to a brand new panaracer kevlar belted
:: tire. I just put a piece of duct tape on the inside of the tire. I
:: haven't had any problems with it yet.
::

this did not work for me. try the dime also. My tires were panaracer
pansela 100psi.

[BGH]

"nash" > wrote in news:L%N3h.265496$1T2.194655
@pd7urf2no:

>:: I had the same thing happen to a brand new panaracer kevlar belted
>:: tire. I just put a piece of duct tape on the inside of the tire. I
>:: haven't had any problems with it yet.
>::
>
> this did not work for me. try the dime also. My tires were panaracer
> pansela 100psi.

I'm curious. So how did the duct tape boot fail to work?

[nash]

"BGH" > wrote in message
...
> "nash" > wrote in news:L%N3h.265496$1T2.194655
> @pd7urf2no:
>
>>:: I had the same thing happen to a brand new panaracer kevlar belted
>>:: tire. I just put a piece of duct tape on the inside of the tire. I
>>:: haven't had any problems with it yet.
>>::
>>
>> this did not work for me. try the dime also. My tires were panaracer
>> pansela 100psi.
>
> I'm curious. So how did the duct tape boot fail to work?

Glad you asked For me anyway the tube pressure still protruded the tube
outside . Hole size was pen knife size. I would have used a quarter but it
would be too big for the narrow tires I use.

[gds]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> gds wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
> ::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
> ::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
> :::
> ::: Is this tire toast now?
> ::
> :: I know folks have sed a variety of materials to make boots but Park
> :: sells a patch like boot material that works great. I've had some of
> :: these covering cuts caused by glass and they have been holding fine
> :: for several hundred miles.
>
> What if I just used the patch material that ones uses on an inner tube, just
> applied to the inside of the tire?

Don't know, haven't tried it. An advantage of the booting material is
that the patches are much bigger than tube patches so they can cover a
much bigger tire cut than would be the case with the tube patches. As I
look at the construction of the patches the boot patch is thicker, has
material woven through it and "appears" more rugged.

[Roger Zoul]

gds wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: gds wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in the road.
:::::: There is a hole in the tire along the outer perimeter (not on the
:::::: side wall). It's a brand new Kelvar belted tire, too.
::::::
:::::: Is this tire toast now?
:::::
::::: I know folks have sed a variety of materials to make boots but
::::: Park sells a patch like boot material that works great. I've had
::::: some of these covering cuts caused by glass and they have been
::::: holding fine for several hundred miles.
:::
::: What if I just used the patch material that ones uses on an inner
::: tube, just applied to the inside of the tire?
::
:: Don't know, haven't tried it. An advantage of the booting material is
:: that the patches are much bigger than tube patches so they can cover
:: a much bigger tire cut than would be the case with the tube patches.
:: As I look at the construction of the patches the boot patch is
:: thicker, has material woven through it and "appears" more rugged.

I have ordered some of this material. I'm also carrying some pieces of the
old inner tube for hte same purpose.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
"Roger Zoul" > writes:

>::: Is this tire toast now?
>::
>:: Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
>:: I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
>:: of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.
>::
>:: But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
>:: nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
>:: So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
>:: you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.
>::
>
> Yeah, and it is bugging me right now thinking about this. Dammit.

Have you replaced it yet? :-)

Actually, chances are the tire's still servicable. It might not
even need to be booted.

Here's my unfounded guesswork about dealing with damaged tires:

when it comes to the decision to boot or not, it may pay to first
determine whether the puncture is a simple hole (as might be
caused by a nail) or a gash. A nail-hole tends to just spread the
fibres in the tire, and the hole is fairly localized and benign.
A _gash_ on the other hand, cuts the fibres and creates a rupture
that may spread and expose other adjacent fibres to subsequent
damage. A boot holds the gash together from the inside, but it
doesn't really provide much exterior protection from further damage.
You can try to mend the gash on the exterior too, with contact
cement or tire repair compound, but still, the original integrity
of the tire is as lost as virginity.

> Right! this was a flat, sharp piece of metal with the smaller width end
> sticking out and the larger end inside the tire. Interestingly, the tube
> shows what looks like a pinch flat (two tiny pin-head holes about 1mm apart)
> at the outer seam about 2.5 inches from the stem. Also, there is one tiny
> hole just opposite the other two but along the inner seam. However, the hole
> in the tire is about 180 deg opposite the stem location. Perhaps I rotated
> the tire while changing the tube?

I like to always align the valve stem with the
inflation spec on the tire. It comes in handy.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

[Roger Zoul]

Tom Keats wrote:
:: In article >,
:: "Roger Zoul" > writes:
::
:::::: Is this tire toast now?
:::::
::::: Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
::::: I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
::::: of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.
:::::
::::: But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
::::: nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
::::: So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
::::: you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.
:::::
:::
::: Yeah, and it is bugging me right now thinking about this. Dammit.
::
:: Have you replaced it yet? :-)
::
:: Actually, chances are the tire's still servicable. It might not
:: even need to be booted.
::

I have replaced it, but I kept the old tire, just in case.

Viewed from the inside, the hole is very small....perhaps 1 mm. It looks
much larger from the exterior. I could easily put a piece of that tire
booting material in there that gds mentioned (I bought some).


:: Here's my unfounded guesswork about dealing with damaged tires:
::
:: when it comes to the decision to boot or not, it may pay to first
:: determine whether the puncture is a simple hole (as might be
:: caused by a nail) or a gash. A nail-hole tends to just spread the
:: fibres in the tire, and the hole is fairly localized and benign.
:: A _gash_ on the other hand, cuts the fibres and creates a rupture
:: that may spread and expose other adjacent fibres to subsequent
:: damage. A boot holds the gash together from the inside, but it
:: doesn't really provide much exterior protection from further damage.
:: You can try to mend the gash on the exterior too, with contact
:: cement or tire repair compound, but still, the original integrity
:: of the tire is as lost as virginity.

I think it's too small to try to mend, but boot material on the inside seems
reasonable.
::
::: Right! this was a flat, sharp piece of metal with the smaller
::: width end sticking out and the larger end inside the tire.
::: Interestingly, the tube shows what looks like a pinch flat (two
::: tiny pin-head holes about 1mm apart) at the outer seam about 2.5
::: inches from the stem. Also, there is one tiny hole just opposite
::: the other two but along the inner seam. However, the hole in the
::: tire is about 180 deg opposite the stem location. Perhaps I rotated
::: the tire while changing the tube?
::
:: I like to always align the valve stem with the
:: inflation spec on the tire. It comes in handy.
::

Good idea. Never thought of that.

[garmonboezia]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in
:

> Tom Keats wrote:
>:: In article >,
>:: "Roger Zoul" > writes:
>::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in
>::: the road. There is a hole in the tire along the outer
>::: perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a brand new
>::: Kelvar belted tire, too.
>:::
>::: Is this tire toast now?
>::
>:: Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
>:: I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
>:: of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.
>::
>:: But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
>:: nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
>:: So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
>:: you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.
>::
>
> Yeah, and it is bugging me right now thinking about this.
> Dammit.
>
>:: One thing to watch out for is dumpsters by construction
>:: sites. I give them a wide berth. There's often little
>:: bits of flashing trimmings lying on the ground around
>:: them. Those things are especially nasty.
>::
>:: Kevlar might be bulletproof, but it sure ain't
>:: knifeproof.
>
> Right! this was a flat, sharp piece of metal with the
> smaller width end sticking out and the larger end inside
> the tire. Interestingly, the tube shows what looks like a
> pinch flat (two tiny pin-head holes about 1mm apart) at the
> outer seam about 2.5 inches from the stem. Also, there is
> one tiny hole just opposite the other two but along the
> inner seam. However, the hole in the tire is about 180 deg
> opposite the stem location. Perhaps I rotated the tire
> while changing the tube?
>
>
>
Roger,

I would have booted the tire to get home. Cut pieces feom a
FedEx waterproof envelope work well.

With a puncture this bad I'd replace the tire ASAP. After
all, do you really want to be decending Saluda Grade with an
uncertain tire? Maybe relegate the old tire (booted) to a
utility bike that doesn't go far from home.

BTW, we're starting to get some good rides here in Western
North Carolina beyond the Assault on Mt Mitchell. Check it
out.

199 Mike

[Roger Zoul]

garmonboezia wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in
:: :
::
::: Tom Keats wrote:
::::: In article >,
::::: "Roger Zoul" > writes:
:::::: Yesterday I got a flat due to a sharp piece of metal in
:::::: the road. There is a hole in the tire along the outer
:::::: perimeter (not on the side wall). It's a brand new
:::::: Kelvar belted tire, too.
::::::
:::::: Is this tire toast now?
:::::
::::: Not necessarily. It may be repairable with a boot.
::::: I've made some fairly effective boots out of patches
::::: of jeans denim, liberally soused with contact cement.
:::::
::::: But just knowing the hole is there will perpetually
::::: nag at you until you eventually replace the tire.
::::: So will "feeling" the bumps created by any tire boot that
::::: you know is there. I guess it's a psychological thing.
:::::
:::
::: Yeah, and it is bugging me right now thinking about this.
::: Dammit.
:::
::::: One thing to watch out for is dumpsters by construction
::::: sites. I give them a wide berth. There's often little
::::: bits of flashing trimmings lying on the ground around
::::: them. Those things are especially nasty.
:::::
::::: Kevlar might be bulletproof, but it sure ain't
::::: knifeproof.
:::
::: Right! this was a flat, sharp piece of metal with the
::: smaller width end sticking out and the larger end inside
::: the tire. Interestingly, the tube shows what looks like a
::: pinch flat (two tiny pin-head holes about 1mm apart) at the
::: outer seam about 2.5 inches from the stem. Also, there is
::: one tiny hole just opposite the other two but along the
::: inner seam. However, the hole in the tire is about 180 deg
::: opposite the stem location. Perhaps I rotated the tire
::: while changing the tube?
:::
:::
:::
:: Roger,
::
:: I would have booted the tire to get home. Cut pieces feom a
:: FedEx waterproof envelope work well.
::

Actually, I tried to boot the tire. However, the damn valve stem broke on
the new tube. Since I was only a mile away from my car, I just walked back
to it.


:: With a puncture this bad I'd replace the tire ASAP. After
:: all, do you really want to be decending Saluda Grade with an
:: uncertain tire? Maybe relegate the old tire (booted) to a
:: utility bike that doesn't go far from home.

I did replace it. I still have to old tire, though I'm not sure if I'll get
a utility bike soon (bike 2 is going to be a recumbent).

::
:: BTW, we're starting to get some good rides here in Western
:: North Carolina beyond the Assault on Mt Mitchell. Check it
:: out.

You sound as if you live close to Greenville. I imagine the riding is just
lovely up there.

[garmonboezia]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in
:

> garmonboezia wrote:
>:: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in
>:: :
>
> Actually, I tried to boot the tire. However, the damn valve
> stem broke on the new tube. Since I was only a mile away
> from my car, I just walked back to it.
>
I hate breaking Presta valves. It always happens at the worst
possible time. The Topeak Mountain Morph is a good remedy for
that since it works like a floor pump but much smaller. I
haven't broken or bent any valve stems since I got the Morph.
>
>::
>:: BTW, we're starting to get some good rides here in
>:: Western North Carolina beyond the Assault on Mt Mitchell.
>:: Check it out.
>
> You sound as if you live close to Greenville. I imagine
> the riding is just lovely up there.
>
>
>
I live in Swain County (Bryson City/Cherokee). It's not a
full calendar yet but here are three late year rides that are
pretty much in my back yard.

Tour de Tuck (mid Aug)
http://www.tourdetuck.com/html/ride_maps.html
Route Profile
http://www.motionmakersbikes.com/html/tour_de_tuck.html

This ride follows the Blue Ridge Parkway up to Water Rock Knob
and Richland Balsam.


Tour of Franklin (late Oct)
http://www.smokymtnbikes.com/

Not much on the web about this one but it climbs to a place
called Standing Indian, then Burningtown (near Cowee, an
ancient Middle Cherokee Town site), then out towards
Cullasaja.

Nantahala Nightmare (early Nov)
http://www.noc.com/events_tournany.html

Very well supported ride. The Wayah Bald climb is the
"nightmare" part. Last year it was warm and we still had lots
of color. This year it didn't really warm up till afternoon.

199 Mike