Any Lightweight Metal Mudguards??

[NYC XYZ]

Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

[Peter Clinch]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack.

Typically /not/ the case with SKS ones. They're not indestructible, but
they don't make a habit of cracking, and they don't bend, corrode and
weigh more like metal ones would.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Andy M-S]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

Check with www.wallbike.com and take a look at the Berthoud stainless
steel fenders. I've been using a set for the last three years without
any problems...

[NYC XYZ]

Actually, that's just the one I have. I ride pretty hard, mind you,
going off two-feet sidewalk curbs and potholes, yeah, but the front is
all right, so I can only imagine the back one had a stone pop it or
something. The SMGTe user's manual does mention something about
spacing the rear shock appropriately for fear of damaging the rear
guard, but I don't think it's on account of that that my guard's
cracked.

No, it's just plastic, and can only take so much. I'll need metal
ones. Surely someone's come up with some kind of non-corroding alloy
by now??? Hmm, maybe titanium mud guards???



Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> Typically /not/ the case with SKS ones. They're not indestructible, but
> they don't make a habit of cracking, and they don't bend, corrode and
> weigh more like metal ones would.
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Pete Grey]

Seconded on the SKS (formerly ESGE) fenders, they last a looooong time
compared to any of the other plastic varieties.

I typically get 3-4 years (winter seasons in the PNW) out of them, maybe
something like 8-12K miles. They also over-build the metal parts on the SKS
fenders, that's another common point of failure in the other varieties.

-pete

"NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....
>

[[email protected]]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

http://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html

Properly mounted they last and are lightweight.

Mike Jenkins

[NYC XYZ]

Pete Grey wrote:
> Seconded on the SKS (formerly ESGE) fenders, they last a looooong time
> compared to any of the other plastic varieties.
>
> I typically get 3-4 years (winter seasons in the PNW) out of them, maybe
> something like 8-12K miles. They also over-build the metal parts on the SKS
> fenders, that's another common point of failure in the other varieties.
>
> -pete


I beg your pardon, but what's "over-build the metal parts" and how does
that make it a "common point of failure"??

I'm looking at my rear fender and I'm wondering if maybe I "tensed" it
up too much -- that is to say, whether I fiddled with the stays (or
whatever them thin metal rods are called) such that I introduced
tension which built up over time (I prefer my fenders a bit "higher"
because I imagined that would help prevent twigs getting caught)....

[NYC XYZ]

wrote:
>
>
> http://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html
>
> Properly mounted they last and are lightweight.
>
> Mike Jenkins



Looks nice enough. But are they compatible with the HP Velo SMGTe SWB
recumbent? I talked to some guy at the shop but he didn't know and,
while friendly enough, didn't seem interested in finding out. I myself
know nothing about fender technicalities. I'd assume that a fender for
26" wheels is universal, but apparently that's not necessarily the
case....

[Pete Grey]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear.

I meant to note that the metal parts on the SKS fenders are over-built,
about double the thickness as on other fenders.
Often, on other fender sets, I've had the metal support that attaches to the
brake-bridge snap.

I'm guessing something wasn't set up quite right on yours, if your SKS's
didn't last that long.
I've got a set on my winter bike and my loaded touring bike, a 26" wheel
setup that has gone many, many miles on gravel roads, etc.

Like I said, they do *eventually* break, but I'm guessing the alluminum
variety will as well. The only way to avoid that is probably steeel or Ti
fenders, one which is really heavy and I'm not sure anyone would ever
attempt to market a Ti variety...
My SKS fenders seem to outlast a couple of drivetrain (chain/cogset) changes
thou', which seems reasonable to me!

-pete

"NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Pete Grey wrote:
>> Seconded on the SKS (formerly ESGE) fenders, they last a looooong time
>> compared to any of the other plastic varieties.
>>
>> I typically get 3-4 years (winter seasons in the PNW) out of them, maybe
>> something like 8-12K miles. They also over-build the metal parts on the
>> SKS
>> fenders, that's another common point of failure in the other varieties.
>>
>> -pete
>
>
> I beg your pardon, but what's "over-build the metal parts" and how does
> that make it a "common point of failure"??
>
> I'm looking at my rear fender and I'm wondering if maybe I "tensed" it
> up too much -- that is to say, whether I fiddled with the stays (or
> whatever them thin metal rods are called) such that I introduced
> tension which built up over time (I prefer my fenders a bit "higher"
> because I imagined that would help prevent twigs getting caught)....
>

[landotter]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

They do and I've had a set of the really light aluminum ones. After a
few years of real use, they look like crumpled cans. If I had the dough
and the initiative, I'd get some hammered Honjo ones. Not available in
26, AFAIK.

[philcycles]

landotter wrote:

> They do and I've had a set of the really light aluminum ones. After a
> few years of real use, they look like crumpled cans. If I had the dough
> and the initiative, I'd get some hammered Honjo ones. Not available in
> 26, AFAIK.

They must be because I've got a pair in the closet.
Phil Brown

[landotter]

philcycles wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>
> > They do and I've had a set of the really light aluminum ones. After a
> > few years of real use, they look like crumpled cans. If I had the dough
> > and the initiative, I'd get some hammered Honjo ones. Not available in
> > 26, AFAIK.
>
> They must be because I've got a pair in the closet.
> Phil Brown


D'oh, didn't scroll to the end of the page:
http://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html

$57, very fair considering the quality.

Though, what's the deal with mounting hardware, is anything included
short of struts?

[Tim McNamara]

In article . com>,
"landotter" > wrote:

> philcycles wrote:
> > landotter wrote:
> >
> > > They do and I've had a set of the really light aluminum ones.
> > > After a few years of real use, they look like crumpled cans. If I
> > > had the dough and the initiative, I'd get some hammered Honjo
> > > ones. Not available in 26, AFAIK.
> >
> > They must be because I've got a pair in the closet. Phil Brown
>
> D'oh, didn't scroll to the end of the page:
> http://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html
>
> $57, very fair considering the quality.
>
> Though, what's the deal with mounting hardware, is anything included
> short of struts?

The fender price is just the fenders. You buy the struts, eyebolts, etc
separately. And given the Japanese names it's a little confusing.

You can also order them from Jim at Hiawatha Cyclery in Minneapolis.
He's a good guy that I have done a lot of business with. Just tell him
you need to full set

http://www.hiawathacyclery.com

[Grolch]

"landotter" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> philcycles wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>
>> > They do and I've had a set of the really light aluminum ones. After a
>> > few years of real use, they look like crumpled cans. If I had the dough
>> > and the initiative, I'd get some hammered Honjo ones. Not available in
>> > 26, AFAIK.
>>
>> They must be because I've got a pair in the closet.
>> Phil Brown
>
>
> D'oh, didn't scroll to the end of the page:
> http://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html
>
> $57, very fair considering the quality.
>
> Though, what's the deal with mounting hardware, is anything included
> short of struts?
>

Looks like the mounting kit is about $70.00. Too bad they don't make them
for my trike. I've got the PlanetBike set on mine and they're cracked and
repaired. I don't like them. Maybe they could do a custom order for 18" and
20" sets. The planet bike set costs me nearly $100.00 from Catrike, I'd pay
twice that for these.

Grolsch

[Pete Biggs]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made
> out of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones
> and twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26"
> wheel, please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo
> SMGTe SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these
> things out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

Good "plastic" mudguards like SKS's are actually aluminium sandwich, with
metal for the filling and plastic for the bread. It's known as
chromoplastic. I did have one of this type crack (Raleigh) - but only after
ten years of hard use and abuse.

To help deal with nasty stuff that gets caught, front SKS guards also have a
break-away feature instead of being strongly fixed to the fork eyes.

Mudguards made entirely of metal are very noisy, by the way.

~PB

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

GILLES Berthoud or Honjo..'google' them to see if they make a 26 inch
size.

[Tim McNamara]

In article >,
"Pete Biggs" >
wrote:

> Mudguards made entirely of metal are very noisy, by the way.

There should be no rattles from properly mounted aluminum or steel
fenders (mudguards for rightpondians). "Properly mounted" means using
leather washers between the bolts mounting the fenders to the frame and
the fenders. Aluminum fenders are prone to cracking if improperly
mounted; this is less of an issue with steel fenders.

If you have to use a crimp-on hanger at the rear brake bridge (e.g.,
your frame does not have a fender boss there- and few do) then that will
be prone to rattling and something should be placed in there to damp
that.

Metal fenders will tend to be noisier when stuff is hitting them,
though. Proper mounting decreases some of that, too, but can't take
away this noise entirely.

Mounting metal fenders is more difficult than mounting plastic ones like
Esge/SKS. Very few frames sold in the US are designed for fenders- most
are designed like road racing frames. Bikes designed for fenders have
adequate clearance at the fork crown, chainstay bridge and brake bridge.
All three points are a constant distance from the axle center on bikes
designed for fenders (about 35.5 cm for a 700C wheel) to allow clearance
for a 28 mm tire with about an 8 mm gap between the tire and fender.
That'll be a no-go on your Trek Madone, but even 'cross bikes can be
problematic for mounting fenders. Such a simple thing, but few bike
makers even think about it.

[Pete Biggs]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article >,
> "Pete Biggs" >
> wrote:
>
>> Mudguards made entirely of metal are very noisy, by the way.
>
> There should be no rattles from properly mounted aluminum or steel
> fenders (mudguards for rightpondians). "Properly mounted" means using
> leather washers between the bolts mounting the fenders to the frame
> and the fenders. Aluminum fenders are prone to cracking if improperly
> mounted; this is less of an issue with steel fenders.
>
> If you have to use a crimp-on hanger at the rear brake bridge (e.g.,
> your frame does not have a fender boss there- and few do) then that
> will be prone to rattling and something should be placed in there to
> damp that.
>
> Metal fenders will tend to be noisier when stuff is hitting them,
> though. Proper mounting decreases some of that, too, but can't take
> away this noise entirely.

That's what I was mainly thinking of. Every particle of gravel makes a loud
noise. Leaving a large amount of clearance helps but that's not always
possible or desirable for good protection.

~PB

[nash]

If you are in Vancouver and you ride a recumbent the best place for those
owners is Cambie Cycles. The owner has been a recumbent rider forever if he
is still there.

Cheers

[NYC XYZ]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
> GILLES Berthoud or Honjo..'google' them to see if they make a 26 inch
> size.


Thing is, no one knows whether they go with the HP Velo SMGTe, and it
seems there's no return policy either....

[richard]

Give up! Given the abuse to which you seem to subject yours, metal ones
would bend. You'd straighten them. You'd bend them again... After a
couple of cycles of this, the metal ones would break, too. Sorry...

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....
>

[BobT]

"Pete Biggs" > wrote in
message ...
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made
>> out of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones
>> and twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26"
>> wheel, please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo
>> SMGTe SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these
>> things out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....

My rear SKS "chromoplastic" fender cracked withing months of purchasing it
as a factory supplied part on a new bike. The bike shop gave me new ones.
They have held up nicely for the past two years. I wonder if the idea that
mounting them with struts putting tension/compression on them caused my
first set and your set to fail? This would fit with me having no problems
in the past two years and others suggesting years of use and
indestructibility.

BobT

[Prisoner at War]

BobT wrote:
>
>
> My rear SKS "chromoplastic" fender cracked withing months of purchasing it
> as a factory supplied part on a new bike. The bike shop gave me new ones.
> They have held up nicely for the past two years. I wonder if the idea that
> mounting them with struts putting tension/compression on them caused my
> first set and your set to fail? This would fit with me having no problems
> in the past two years and others suggesting years of use and
> indestructibility.
>
> BobT

Good point. I've been wondering that myself. But how would one know
what's too much tension??

[chuck]

On 2006-11-10, NYC XYZ > wrote:
>
> Plastic ones suck...they just crack. I think a metal one, say made out
> of sufficiently strong aluminium, will be rugged for any stones and
> twigs which wind up getting caught. So which ones for a 26" wheel,
> please? I'm assuming such a thing exists. I have the HP Velo SMGTe
> SWB, and the rear guard has cracked. Why don't they make these things
> out of light-weight metal?? Copper costs pennies, I'm sure....
>

When that *twig* gets wedged between the rugged front fender and your
front wheel, guess what happens? It happened to me last night.
Fortunately, I had a flimsy plastic fender, and it didn't quite throw me
over the bars. I was able to 'superman dive' across the trail and got
away with a couple scrapes. I'm sure with a metal fender I would have
gone over the bars instead of into one to drink off my scrapes. The
Planet Bike fenders have lasted 12,000 miles of dirt riding. I'll buy
another set in the spring when they start cleaning up the trail again.
BTW, while these are nice in the rain, I have them mostly to keep the
lime dust off my drivetrain.

[dvt]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Plastic ones suck...they just crack.
>
> Typically /not/ the case with SKS ones. They're not indestructible, but
> they don't make a habit of cracking, and they don't bend, corrode and
> weigh more like metal ones would.

That's opposite of my experience with an upright bike. I've had several
SKS fenders crack, usually on very cold days. On the other hand, I have
had a pair of Planet Bike fenders for a few years, and they haven't yet
cracked. Some of this difference is probably be due to my change in
commute (I used to use a bike rack that stressed the fore section of the
front fender). But that doesn't explain why the rest of my Planet Bike
fenders have survived longer than the SKS versions.

Here's a fun anecdote... I was riding along on a dark rainy night. I
rode over a stick that I hadn't seen. The stick lodged in my rear wheel
and brought the fender stays around to the chainstay. After I stopped, I
found that much of the rear fender had slipped forward between the seat
stays. So there was a little bit of fender behind the seat stays, while
most of the fender was in a very awkward shape ahead of the seat stays.
I pulled the rear fender back into shape and rode home.

The only repercussions were a) a small crinkle in the fender and b) the
fender stay broke free from the fender a few months later. These were
Planet Bike fenders. I scavenged a bracket from my collection of cracked
SKS fenders and riveted that to the wrinkled Planet Bike fender. I still
ride with that fender.

The Planet Bike fenders have been much more durable for my riding style
than the SKS fenders. They're not perfect; the 622 size fenders are too
short, so my mudflap has to be extra long. But I'll take that trade.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

[Prisoner at War]

chuck wrote:
>
>
> When that *twig* gets wedged between the rugged front fender and your
> front wheel, guess what happens? It happened to me last night.
> Fortunately, I had a flimsy plastic fender, and it didn't quite throw me
> over the bars. I was able to 'superman dive' across the trail and got
> away with a couple scrapes. I'm sure with a metal fender I would have
> gone over the bars instead of into one to drink off my scrapes. The
> Planet Bike fenders have lasted 12,000 miles of dirt riding. I'll buy
> another set in the spring when they start cleaning up the trail again.
> BTW, while these are nice in the rain, I have them mostly to keep the
> lime dust off my drivetrain.


Hmm! Very good point. Better it breaks, than that I should!

Arrrrggh...okay, another $$$ for some fenders...damn, this is one
expensive hobby...and I thought I was saving on car insurance here...!