New rear wheel suggestions please

[dgk]

I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
break.

I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.

Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

[[email protected]]

dgk wrote:
> I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> break.
>
> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>
> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

How much do you weigh? The 36 spoke wheels you have should hold up. For
strength, more spokes is better, and 36 is pretty much regarded as the
maximum. The wheel is probably made with cheap spokes. Replace them all
with quality ones. Getting a whole new wheel probably won't be a good
solution. Unless you spend a lot of money, it will probably have cheap
spokes too.

Joseph

[dgk]

On 17 Nov 2006 06:05:14 -0800, wrote:

>
>dgk wrote:
>> I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
>> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
>> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
>> break.
>>
>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>>
>> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
>> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
>> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
>> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
>> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
>
>How much do you weigh? The 36 spoke wheels you have should hold up. For
>strength, more spokes is better, and 36 is pretty much regarded as the
>maximum. The wheel is probably made with cheap spokes. Replace them all
>with quality ones. Getting a whole new wheel probably won't be a good
>solution. Unless you spend a lot of money, it will probably have cheap
>spokes too.
>
>Joseph

I weigh around 180.

I just took a look at Sheldon Brown. I think I want the triple-butted
DT Alpine III spokes. A buck a piece. And there's also a Fiberfix
Kevlar Replacement Spoke. For emergencies, don't even need to remove
the cassette. That sounds like something that I should carry with me.
I can't change a spoke on the fly but I can likely use that.

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:22 -0500, dgk wrote:

>>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
>>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
>>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.

You also have to sacrifice a toad under a full moon.
>>>
>>> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
>>> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?

No. Get good spokes and build the wheel carefully.

>>How much do you weigh? The 36 spoke wheels you have should hold up. For
>>strength, more spokes is better, and 36 is pretty much regarded as the
>>maximum.

36 is "regarded" as the maximum because few if any hubs can be found with
more holes, except outrageously expensive tandem hubs. But still, at 180
lbs, you should not be having this trouble. I (sigh) outweigh you by 20
lbs and do not have this problem.

> I just took a look at Sheldon Brown. I think I want the triple-butted DT
> Alpine III spokes. A buck a piece. And there's also a Fiberfix Kevlar
> Replacement Spoke.

I thought you were trying to save money! Any double-butted stainless
spoke will do, and you can get them for considerably less than $1 per. DT
and Wheelsmith are both good brands.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

[[email protected]]

dgk wrote:
> On 17 Nov 2006 06:05:14 -0800, wrote:
>
> >
> >dgk wrote:
> >> I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> >> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> >> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> >> break.
> >>
> >> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> >> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> >> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
> >>
> >> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> >> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> >> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> >> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> >> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
> >
> >How much do you weigh? The 36 spoke wheels you have should hold up. For
> >strength, more spokes is better, and 36 is pretty much regarded as the
> >maximum. The wheel is probably made with cheap spokes. Replace them all
> >with quality ones. Getting a whole new wheel probably won't be a good
> >solution. Unless you spend a lot of money, it will probably have cheap
> >spokes too.
> >
> >Joseph
>
> I weigh around 180.
>
> I just took a look at Sheldon Brown. I think I want the triple-butted
> DT Alpine III spokes. A buck a piece. And there's also a Fiberfix
> Kevlar Replacement Spoke. For emergencies, don't even need to remove
> the cassette. That sounds like something that I should carry with me.
> I can't change a spoke on the fly but I can likely use that.

At 180 the tripple-butted is way overkill. Even plain straight gauge DT
would be fine. I think the problem is your existing spokes are
excessivly cheap. So you don't need to go exotic, just not cheap-o.

I weigh 215 and have ridden a lot as high as 265. I use 36 now, but
have a 32 spoke wheelset that has probably 50,000km on it that never
broke a spoke. Replace your cheap spokes and it should be fine.

Joseph

[dgk]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:19:15 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:22 -0500, dgk wrote:
>
>>>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
>>>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
>>>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>
>You also have to sacrifice a toad under a full moon.

No can do. My friend is a vegan and would kill me. Hey, wait a minute.


>
>36 is "regarded" as the maximum because few if any hubs can be found with
>more holes, except outrageously expensive tandem hubs. But still, at 180
>lbs, you should not be having this trouble. I (sigh) outweigh you by 20
>lbs and do not have this problem.

But I do. I think a lot of it is that the hybrid configuration does
put a lot of weight on the rear wheel. I can't think of anything else.
I ride over some crappy streets sometimes but so does everyone else.
The one I broke today just broke while I was riding on a reasonably
smooth street. I heard a noise and thought I must have hit something
but no, it was just the spoke popping.
>
>I thought you were trying to save money! Any double-butted stainless
>spoke will do, and you can get them for considerably less than $1 per. DT
>and Wheelsmith are both good brands.

Prices seem to be 50¢ and up for good spokes. Since I'm not a wheel
builder, won't the big cost of this be rebuilding the wheel by someone
who knows what they're doing, not really the cost of the spokes? I
paid $20 a few weeks back to fix a spoke, and will likely have to do
that during lunch today. So an extra $18 for the best spokes isn't
really that significant in context. Still, it isn't a tandem and I'm
not touring, so perhaps the triple-butted is overkill.

[Pat Lamb]

dgk wrote:
> I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> break.
>
> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.

Hard to diagnose what the problem is, but it may be the "squeezing them
a bit." Put on some leather gloves and squeeze the crap out of adjacent
spokes. You should only have to do it once. From the above, I'd guess
you need more tension on the whole wheel, and stress cycling is killing
the non-drive spokes -- tighten or get it tightened before the
stress-relief.

> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

You need a good wheelbuilder. (That can be you, with Jobst's book or
Sheldon's site, plus a spoke wrench, a truing stand and a tensiometer.)
Not everyone who builds and/or trues wheels is a good wheel builder, alas.

I out-weigh you by 50% (but coming down, slowly!), commute on a touring
bike, and I can tell you it's possible to build wheels that don't break
spokes. I had one wheel that was problem-free for 4000 miles. (Then
the derailer dived into the spokes, and I found out I should have been
repacking the bearings.) As you note, front wheels are easier. I
retensioned my front wheels about 10,000 miles ago and haven't messed
with them since.

Peter, Sheldon and/or Jobst may jump in Real Soon Now and tell you their
recommended components. As for cheap, well, depends on your definition.
Good parts, you can probably put a solid wheel together for ~$125-150
if you DIY. Add in $25 for the book, $30 for a truing stand (on sale),
$5-10 for the spoke wrench, and $60 for the tensiometer.

If you go to a good wheel builder, they'll recommend components for your
use, and it'll probably run you $250 or so; they'll sell you parts at
full retail and add a labor charge for building the wheel. I got one
from a well-respected builder last year, put 2400 miles on it so far,
and had to touch up a couple of non-drive-side spoke's tension earlier
this month, but that's a whole lot easier than replacing a spoke.
(Think Christmas present! I ordered it and my wife paid the credit card
bill. :)

Pat

[[email protected]]

dgk wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:19:15 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:50:22 -0500, dgk wrote:
> >
> >>>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> >>>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> >>>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
> >
> >You also have to sacrifice a toad under a full moon.
>
> No can do. My friend is a vegan and would kill me. Hey, wait a minute.
>
>
> >
> >36 is "regarded" as the maximum because few if any hubs can be found with
> >more holes, except outrageously expensive tandem hubs. But still, at 180
> >lbs, you should not be having this trouble. I (sigh) outweigh you by 20
> >lbs and do not have this problem.
>
> But I do. I think a lot of it is that the hybrid configuration does
> put a lot of weight on the rear wheel. I can't think of anything else.
> I ride over some crappy streets sometimes but so does everyone else.
> The one I broke today just broke while I was riding on a reasonably
> smooth street. I heard a noise and thought I must have hit something
> but no, it was just the spoke popping.

Unless you are carrying 100lbs of groceries, too much weight on the
back wheel isn't a problem. It's cheap metal in the spokes. I'm on the
tall side, so my seat is way back over the rear wheel, and so is my
weight. I have no problems with quality spokes. I have had problems
with cheap pre-build wheels (with fewer spokes too) that broke all the
time.


> >I thought you were trying to save money! Any double-butted stainless
> >spoke will do, and you can get them for considerably less than $1 per. DT
> >and Wheelsmith are both good brands.
>
> Prices seem to be 50¢ and up for good spokes. Since I'm not a wheel
> builder, won't the big cost of this be rebuilding the wheel by someone
> who knows what they're doing, not really the cost of the spokes? I
> paid $20 a few weeks back to fix a spoke, and will likely have to do
> that during lunch today. So an extra $18 for the best spokes isn't
> really that significant in context. Still, it isn't a tandem and I'm
> not touring, so perhaps the triple-butted is overkill.

Paying $20 to replace a spoke (even considering it was probably a
drive-side one) sounds steep to me. I haven't paid for bike repairs in
years, so I may just be out of touch. Buidling your own wheels isn't
that difficult and is quite a bit of fun if you enjoy that sort of
thing. If you don't enjoy that, perhaps a riding friend/acquaintace
does and would like to do it for you. I think for your purposes,
quality spokes are more important than expert wheel building.

Joseph

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> break.
>
> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>
> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

How old is the bike (what year 7100), how many miles on it, what tires are
you using and how soon after buying it did you start breaking spokes?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"dgk" > wrote in message
...
>I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> break.
>
> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>
> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

[dgk]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:30:08 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>>I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
>> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
>> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
>> break.
>>
>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>>
>> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
>> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
>> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
>> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
>> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
>
>How old is the bike (what year 7100), how many miles on it, what tires are
>you using and how soon after buying it did you start breaking spokes?
>
>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

It has to be about three years old. I put about 4000 miles a year on
it. I got a flat the third day (on the 59th Street Bridge). I started
breaking spokes after maybe six months? I really don't remember. The
wheel was replaced a year ago when it got bent. The replacement was
replaced this last August after several mechanics said that it was
shot. I don't know why that one went so fast. Apparently I hit
something pretty hard and it just won't get round.

I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.

Well, it just cost $30 to get the spoke fixed. That is expensive but
it is Manhattan, and the Metro Bike Shop is good. It's $50 to build
the wheel and they want $1 for each spoke. I probably would have done
it but they can't do it now and I need the bike for a ride tomorrow
night. The Five Boro Bike Club is doing a ride over the East River
Bridges and I want to be on that one. My first organized night ride.

[[email protected]]

dgk wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:30:08 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > wrote:
>
> >>I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
> >> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
> >> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
> >> break.
> >>
> >> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> >> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> >> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
> >>
> >> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
> >> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
> >> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
> >> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> >> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
> >
> >How old is the bike (what year 7100), how many miles on it, what tires are
> >you using and how soon after buying it did you start breaking spokes?
> >
> >--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >
>
> It has to be about three years old. I put about 4000 miles a year on
> it. I got a flat the third day (on the 59th Street Bridge). I started
> breaking spokes after maybe six months? I really don't remember. The
> wheel was replaced a year ago when it got bent. The replacement was
> replaced this last August after several mechanics said that it was
> shot. I don't know why that one went so fast. Apparently I hit
> something pretty hard and it just won't get round.
>
> I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
> ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
> showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
> Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.
>
> Well, it just cost $30 to get the spoke fixed. That is expensive but
> it is Manhattan, and the Metro Bike Shop is good. It's $50 to build
> the wheel and they want $1 for each spoke. I probably would have done
> it but they can't do it now and I need the bike for a ride tomorrow
> night. The Five Boro Bike Club is doing a ride over the East River
> Bridges and I want to be on that one. My first organized night ride.

East River Bridges sounds like a fun ride!

It was a long time ago, but I bought some wheels from R&A Cycles in
Brooklyn in about '87. These wheels have at least 25,000 miles on them.
Just today I took them to the LBS where I was borrowing their truing
stand for some other wheels, so I brought these with me to give them a
once over, figuring they could use a touch-up. Nope, they are round,
and the front wheel had about a 2mm wobble, the back even less. They
have NEVER had a wrench to them in 19 years. I'd pay $50 to have wheels
built like that! That level of longevity is an exception I'm sure, but
well built wheels with quality components should last you a long time.

Have fun on the ride.

Joseph

[DougC]

wrote:
>
> Unless you are carrying 100lbs of groceries, too much weight on the
> back wheel isn't a problem. It's cheap metal in the spokes. I'm on the
> tall side, so my seat is way back over the rear wheel, and so is my
> weight. I have no problems with quality spokes. I have had problems
> with cheap pre-build wheels (with fewer spokes too) that broke all the
> time.
> ......
>
> Joseph
>

I agree--your problem is probably just the cheap spokes that the bike
came with (-it has been opined that bicycle manufacturers tend to use
disproportionately-cheap spokes on all but their upper-end models,
because a spoke isn't big enough to print a brand-name on-).

You keep the hub you have [because it is not the weakness here], get
some decent-brand spokes and also (since they have it apart anyway) you
might also consider bumping up to a better-quality rim, depending on
what it is you are running right now.
~

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>>How old is the bike (what year 7100), how many miles on it, what tires are
>>you using and how soon after buying it did you start breaking spokes?
>>
>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>
> It has to be about three years old. I put about 4000 miles a year on
> it. I got a flat the third day (on the 59th Street Bridge). I started
> breaking spokes after maybe six months? I really don't remember. The
> wheel was replaced a year ago when it got bent. The replacement was
> replaced this last August after several mechanics said that it was
> shot. I don't know why that one went so fast. Apparently I hit
> something pretty hard and it just won't get round.

You really shouldn't be seeing spoke failures on a wheel with only a couple
thousand miles on it (thinking back to your original wheel), but then
there's a continuing history of spoke failure with a different wheel as
well. Could have been a cheap replacement wheel; there are big differences
between the generic cheapies and a wheel built by a decent shop. In general,
hitting things hard causes more damage to a rim than a spoke.

> I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
> ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
> showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
> Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.

How wide are those tires? For commuting in your environment, I'd avoid
anything narrower than 35c.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:30:08 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > wrote:
>
>>>I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or, I should say,
>>> another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid with a pack on the back so
>>> there is a lot of weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
>>> break.
>>>
>>> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
>>> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
>>> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>>>
>>> Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and stop breaking
>>> spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with fewer spokes but thicker?
>>> Suggestions are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the one
>>> thing I really dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
>>> takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
>>
>>How old is the bike (what year 7100), how many miles on it, what tires are
>>you using and how soon after buying it did you start breaking spokes?
>>
>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>
> It has to be about three years old. I put about 4000 miles a year on
> it. I got a flat the third day (on the 59th Street Bridge). I started
> breaking spokes after maybe six months? I really don't remember. The
> wheel was replaced a year ago when it got bent. The replacement was
> replaced this last August after several mechanics said that it was
> shot. I don't know why that one went so fast. Apparently I hit
> something pretty hard and it just won't get round.
>
> I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
> ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
> showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
> Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.
>
> Well, it just cost $30 to get the spoke fixed. That is expensive but
> it is Manhattan, and the Metro Bike Shop is good. It's $50 to build
> the wheel and they want $1 for each spoke. I probably would have done
> it but they can't do it now and I need the bike for a ride tomorrow
> night. The Five Boro Bike Club is doing a ride over the East River
> Bridges and I want to be on that one. My first organized night ride.

[[email protected]]

DougC wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> > Unless you are carrying 100lbs of groceries, too much weight on the
> > back wheel isn't a problem. It's cheap metal in the spokes. I'm on the
> > tall side, so my seat is way back over the rear wheel, and so is my
> > weight. I have no problems with quality spokes. I have had problems
> > with cheap pre-build wheels (with fewer spokes too) that broke all the
> > time.
> > ......
> >
> > Joseph
> >
>
> I agree--your problem is probably just the cheap spokes that the bike
> came with (-it has been opined that bicycle manufacturers tend to use
> disproportionately-cheap spokes on all but their upper-end models,
> because a spoke isn't big enough to print a brand-name on-).

I'll bet they suppose that the cheaper bikes won't see the milage of
more expensive bikes either. Cheap parts across the board tend to wear
out quickly, but in general spoke failure is more noticable than say a
worn, loose bottom bracket, or poorly adjusted wheelbearings, or
anything else that still manages to work despite being wrecked. Today
while I was hanging out at the LBS I was amazed at what crap people
were bringing in for repairs, and how poorly these cheap bikes had held
up. Small women who commute daily 5km or so with worn out bottom
brackets, broken spokes, seized pedals, you name it. I weigh a lot and
ride thousands of kilometers, but I don't have these problems. Good
quality equipment isn't all just hype, but often light-weight and
expensive is confused with quality in the sense of duability. (I'm not
saying you are implying that quality is just hype!)

Joseph

[dgk]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:46:33 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>
>> I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
>> ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
>> showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
>> Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.
>
>How wide are those tires? For commuting in your environment, I'd avoid
>anything narrower than 35c.
>

There is a 35c but I couldn't find one, I got the 32c. I wasn't too
concerned since folks ride much narrower tires around. Of course, some
also ride much wider ones. But I could never see the point of bouncing
around on those MB tires on asphalt.

Why a problem narrower than 35? I was wondering about having two
different sizes although they're pretty close.

[Mike Kruger]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> ... I bought some wheels from R&A Cycles in
> Brooklyn in about '87. These wheels have at least 25,000 miles on them.
> Just today I took them to the LBS where I was borrowing their truing
> stand for some other wheels, so I brought these with me to give them a
> once over, figuring they could use a touch-up. Nope, they are round,
> and the front wheel had about a 2mm wobble, the back even less. They
> have NEVER had a wrench to them in 19 years. I'd pay $50 to have wheels
> built like that!

I'd give at least $60 ;)

Seriously, if you knew you could buy wheels that would provide this service,
they'd be worth a lot.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>>How wide are those tires? For commuting in your environment, I'd avoid
>>anything narrower than 35c.
>>
>
> There is a 35c but I couldn't find one, I got the 32c. I wasn't too
> concerned since folks ride much narrower tires around. Of course, some
> also ride much wider ones. But I could never see the point of bouncing
> around on those MB tires on asphalt.
>
> Why a problem narrower than 35? I was wondering about having two
> different sizes although they're pretty close.

Your descriptions of road hazards, along with the wheel issues, would
indicate that a bit more air cushion would prevent at least some of the
wheel damage you've seen. But 32c isn't bad. Mostly wanted to make sure you
weren't trying to put 28c tires on pretty wide rims.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"dgk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:46:33 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>> I replaced the original tires with Vredestein Perfects about two years
>>> ago, and the rear one is now on its last legs since the thread is
>>> showing through on one area of the sidewall. It's being replaced by a
>>> Pasela Tour Guard tomorrow.
>>
>>How wide are those tires? For commuting in your environment, I'd avoid
>>anything narrower than 35c.
>>
>
> There is a 35c but I couldn't find one, I got the 32c. I wasn't too
> concerned since folks ride much narrower tires around. Of course, some
> also ride much wider ones. But I could never see the point of bouncing
> around on those MB tires on asphalt.
>
> Why a problem narrower than 35? I was wondering about having two
> different sizes although they're pretty close.

[Roger Zoul]

"dgk" > wrote in message

:: I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or,
:: I should say, another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid
:: with a pack on the back so there is a lot of weight on
:: the rear wheel and that's where the spokes break.
::
:: I break at least three a year, or more. Often in
:: bunches, I broke one a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing
:: them a bit every week or so which is supposed to ward of
:: breaking spokes.
::
:: Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and
:: stop breaking spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with
:: fewer spokes but thicker? Suggestions are open. I'd like
:: to keep it cheap, but it's the one thing I really
:: dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
:: takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.

I weigh 225-230 lbs and I used to pop spokes.

Then I found this guy: http://www.spinlitecycling.com/

Bought a 36-spoke velocity wheel for the back and a 32-spoke velocity for
the front.

No more problems.

He handbuilds all his wheels. I went to the shop, spoke to him, and watched
his work.

Someone here told me of this guy.

@ 180 lbs this should not be a problem. Get some new wheels and forget any
notion of buying spokes, etc.

[Peter Cole]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> "dgk" > wrote in message
>
> :: I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work. Or,
> :: I should say, another spoke. It's a Trek 7100 hybrid
> :: with a pack on the back so there is a lot of weight on
> :: the rear wheel and that's where the spokes break.
> ::
> :: I break at least three a year, or more. Often in
> :: bunches, I broke one a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing
> :: them a bit every week or so which is supposed to ward of
> :: breaking spokes.
> ::
> :: Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and
> :: stop breaking spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with
> :: fewer spokes but thicker? Suggestions are open. I'd like
> :: to keep it cheap, but it's the one thing I really
> :: dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
> :: takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
>
> I weigh 225-230 lbs and I used to pop spokes.
>
> Then I found this guy: http://www.spinlitecycling.com/
>
> Bought a 36-spoke velocity wheel for the back and a 32-spoke velocity for
> the front.
>
> No more problems.
>
> He handbuilds all his wheels. I went to the shop, spoke to him, and watched
> his work.
>
> Someone here told me of this guy.
>
> @ 180 lbs this should not be a problem. Get some new wheels and forget any
> notion of buying spokes, etc.
>
>

I also weigh 225-230. I buy cheap wheels, tension, true and stress
relieve them (as described in J. Brandt's book). It takes about an hour
or so to go over a set of new wheels. I never break spokes. I never
retrue my wheels. I ride them until the rims wear out -- swap in new
rims and keep riding. It's not voodoo.

[Roger Zoul]

"Peter Cole" > wrote in message

:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: "dgk" > wrote in message
:::
::::: I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work.
::::: Or, I should say, another spoke. It's a Trek 7100
::::: hybrid with a pack on the back so there is a lot of
::::: weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
::::: break.
:::::
::::: I break at least three a year, or more. Often in
::::: bunches, I broke one a few weeks ago. I tried
::::: squeezing them a bit every week or so which is
::::: supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
:::::
::::: Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and
::::: stop breaking spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with
::::: fewer spokes but thicker? Suggestions are open. I'd
::::: like to keep it cheap, but it's the one thing I really
::::: dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
::::: takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
:::
::: I weigh 225-230 lbs and I used to pop spokes.
:::
::: Then I found this guy: http://www.spinlitecycling.com/
:::
::: Bought a 36-spoke velocity wheel for the back and a
::: 32-spoke velocity for the front.
:::
::: No more problems.
:::
::: He handbuilds all his wheels. I went to the shop, spoke
::: to him, and watched his work.
:::
::: Someone here told me of this guy.
:::
::: @ 180 lbs this should not be a problem. Get some new
::: wheels and forget any notion of buying spokes, etc.
:::
:::
::
:: I also weigh 225-230. I buy cheap wheels, tension, true
:: and stress relieve them (as described in J. Brandt's
:: book). It takes about an hour or so to go over a set of
:: new wheels. I never break spokes. I never retrue my
:: wheels. I ride them until the rims wear out -- swap in
:: new rims and keep riding. It's not voodoo.

If that's the case, why did my LBS people redo my original rear wheel twice
only to leave me with a loose spoke? Perhaps it's not voodoo for you.....

[Patrick Lamb]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 21:22:22 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
> wrote:

>"Peter Cole" > wrote in message

>:: Roger Zoul wrote:
>::: "dgk" > wrote in message
>:::
>::::: I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work.
>::::: Or, I should say, another spoke. It's a Trek 7100
>::::: hybrid with a pack on the back so there is a lot of
>::::: weight on the rear wheel and that's where the spokes
>::::: break.
>:::::
>::::: I break at least three a year, or more. Often in
>::::: bunches, I broke one a few weeks ago. I tried
>::::: squeezing them a bit every week or so which is
>::::: supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
>:::::
>::::: Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back and
>::::: stop breaking spokes. Is it better to get a wheel with
>::::: fewer spokes but thicker? Suggestions are open. I'd
>::::: like to keep it cheap, but it's the one thing I really
>::::: dislike about commuting by bike and will spend what it
>::::: takes to get one that won't break. Thanks.
>:::
>::: I weigh 225-230 lbs and I used to pop spokes.
>:::
>::: Then I found this guy: http://www.spinlitecycling.com/
>:::
>::: Bought a 36-spoke velocity wheel for the back and a
>::: 32-spoke velocity for the front.
>:::
>::: No more problems.
>:::
>::: He handbuilds all his wheels. I went to the shop, spoke
>::: to him, and watched his work.
>:::
>::: Someone here told me of this guy.
>:::
>::: @ 180 lbs this should not be a problem. Get some new
>::: wheels and forget any notion of buying spokes, etc.
>:::
>:::
>::
>:: I also weigh 225-230. I buy cheap wheels, tension, true
>:: and stress relieve them (as described in J. Brandt's
>:: book). It takes about an hour or so to go over a set of
>:: new wheels. I never break spokes. I never retrue my
>:: wheels. I ride them until the rims wear out -- swap in
>:: new rims and keep riding. It's not voodoo.
>
>If that's the case, why did my LBS people redo my original rear wheel twice
>only to leave me with a loose spoke? Perhaps it's not voodoo for you.....

Because they don't have or haven't read Brandt's book, maybe?


Email address works as is.

[Roger Zoul]

"Patrick Lamb" > wrote in message

:: On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 21:22:22 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: > wrote:
::
::: "Peter Cole" > wrote in message
:::
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: "dgk" > wrote in message
::::::
:::::::: I broke a spoke this morning on the way in to work.
:::::::: Or, I should say, another spoke. It's a Trek 7100
:::::::: hybrid with a pack on the back so there is a lot of
:::::::: weight on the rear wheel and that's where the
:::::::: spokes break.
::::::::
:::::::: I break at least three a year, or more. Often in
:::::::: bunches, I broke one a few weeks ago. I tried
:::::::: squeezing them a bit every week or so which is
:::::::: supposed to ward of breaking spokes.
::::::::
:::::::: Now I'd just like to put a good wheel on the back
:::::::: and stop breaking spokes. Is it better to get a
:::::::: wheel with fewer spokes but thicker? Suggestions
:::::::: are open. I'd like to keep it cheap, but it's the
:::::::: one thing I really dislike about commuting by bike
:::::::: and will spend what it takes to get one that won't
:::::::: break. Thanks.
::::::
:::::: I weigh 225-230 lbs and I used to pop spokes.
::::::
:::::: Then I found this guy:
:::::: http://www.spinlitecycling.com/
::::::
:::::: Bought a 36-spoke velocity wheel for the back and a
:::::: 32-spoke velocity for the front.
::::::
:::::: No more problems.
::::::
:::::: He handbuilds all his wheels. I went to the shop,
:::::: spoke to him, and watched his work.
::::::
:::::: Someone here told me of this guy.
::::::
:::::: @ 180 lbs this should not be a problem. Get some new
:::::: wheels and forget any notion of buying spokes, etc.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: I also weigh 225-230. I buy cheap wheels, tension,
::::: true and stress relieve them (as described in J.
::::: Brandt's book). It takes about an hour or so to go
::::: over a set of new wheels. I never break spokes. I
::::: never retrue my wheels. I ride them until the rims
::::: wear out -- swap in new rims and keep riding. It's
::::: not voodoo.
:::
::: If that's the case, why did my LBS people redo my
::: original rear wheel twice only to leave me with a loose
::: spoke? Perhaps it's not voodoo for you.....
::
:: Because they don't have or haven't read Brandt's book,
:: maybe?
::

Perhaps. But the point stands.

[Art Harris]

dgk wrote:
> I break at least three a year, or more. Often in bunches, I broke one
> a few weeks ago. I tried squeezing them a bit every week or so which
> is supposed to ward of breaking spokes.

Did you throw some salt over your left shoulder too? Seriuosly, what
makes you think that squeezing the spokes every week is necessary?
Stress relieving only needs to be done once, if done correctly.

Art Harris

[daniel]

im sure you have already handled the situation but if it continues to
happen in the future take a look at your drivetrain.

ive the rear deraileur over shifts it will make the spokes unhappy and
bend them near the hub, weakening them and causing them to break one by
one..whenever they feel like it.

this is typically only a problem though if the broken spokes are
occuring on the drive side.

I found this out not because I was always breaking spokes in my 5 years
of Super D Racing (Ihave actually never broken a spoke on any of my DH
bikes)

I found it out on my crummy 1973 Peugot commuter bike. Eveything was
out of shape on it and I didnt pay any attention because the thing
still rolled..thats all i asked it to do. I did a bit of detective
work when the spokes started protesting though.

[dgk]

On 25 Nov 2006 23:46:50 -0800, "daniel" > wrote:

>im sure you have already handled the situation but if it continues to
>happen in the future take a look at your drivetrain.
>
>ive the rear deraileur over shifts it will make the spokes unhappy and
>bend them near the hub, weakening them and causing them to break one by
>one..whenever they feel like it.
>

>this is typically only a problem though if the broken spokes are
>occuring on the drive side.


My broken spokes are always on the drive side. But I thought that was
just because it was tougher to replace those. Why break on the side
that's easy?

What do you mean by a rear deraileur overshifting? (I'm none to good
on adjusting the gears - no matter how I move the adjuster I can never
get it right). I know that one screw keeps the chain from moving past
the last cog so that doesn't happen. And it's a seven gear cassette
and all seven do seem to work correctly.