cyclocross bikes and disk brakes

[[email protected]]

Hello,

I am looking for a cyclocross bike for commuting and exercise. I have
looked up
the Novarro Element and the Bianchi Volpe in the $1,000-ish range.
What other
bikes are in the range?

The Element is nicely spec'ed. I am wondering if the mechanic disk
brakes offer
any real advantages, and I am concerned they may be more difficult to
adjust
and maintain (I am not at all familiar with disk brakes). The Lemond
Poprad has
disks, too.

Thanks.

-Paul

[Jim Higson]

wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a cyclocross bike for commuting and exercise. I have
> looked up
> the Novarro Element and the Bianchi Volpe in the $1,000-ish range.
> What other
> bikes are in the range?
>
> The Element is nicely spec'ed. I am wondering if the mechanic disk
> brakes offer
> any real advantages, and I am concerned they may be more difficult to
> adjust
> and maintain (I am not at all familiar with disk brakes). The Lemond
> Poprad has
> disks, too.

If you plan to race cyclocross, according to this Wikipedia page, disc
brakes are not allowed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross_bicycle

If you don't plan to race, I wouldn't let this bother you.

--
Jim

[nash]

I like the disc brakes. They stay dry and clean so no rim damage and are
10X more effective. IMHO
MEC has fairly cheap replacements too.

[SGK]

On Nov 29, 4:15 am, Jim Higson > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I am looking for a cyclocross bike for commuting and exercise. I have
> > looked up
> > the Novarro Element and the Bianchi Volpe in the $1,000-ish range.
> > What other
> > bikes are in the range?
>
> > The Element is nicely spec'ed. I am wondering if the mechanic disk
> > brakes offer
> > any real advantages, and I am concerned they may be more difficult to
> > adjust
> > and maintain (I am not at all familiar with disk brakes). The Lemond
> > Poprad has
> > disks, too.If you plan to race cyclocross, according to this Wikipedia page, disc
> brakes are not allowed:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-cross_bicycle
>
> If you don't plan to race, I wouldn't let this bother you.
>
> --
> Jim



Don't worry about using discs at any race except a UCI race at the
Elite level. In that case you will have replaced these bikes long ago.

You'll like the discs. Better modulation, less loss in the wet, and no
brake dust/rim/dirt on your rims (and then you/floor/clothes).

[[email protected]]

I am not convinced disks are better. I don't plan to ride in rain, and
oftentimes
stopping power is not limited by brakes, but by tires and ground
conditions. Just
a thought, as I may still end up buying a disks-equipped bike.

Thanks for your opinions.

-Paul

[landotter]

wrote:
> I am not convinced disks are better. I don't plan to ride in rain, and
> oftentimes
> stopping power is not limited by brakes, but by tires and ground
> conditions. Just
> a thought, as I may still end up buying a disks-equipped bike.
>
> Thanks for your opinions.
>
> -Paul

I'd get the Volpe. It's a real classic meant for all sorts of fun
things like fire road riding and even light touring. It has the
geometry and braze ons for this.

Disc brakes are great, but so are cantis, and for a rider like
yourself, cantis are FAR superior. They're pretty no fuss once set up,
there's no rotor to warp on a bike rack, you can fit fenders and a rack
without hassle. Trust me fenders are a PITA with discs, and you might
want some one day. If you want to get spare wheels, it's cheaper and
less of a pain to source standard 700c wheels.

The Volpe's the way to go, unless you're really going to do a lot of
off roading. It's a perfect all-rounder.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a cyclocross bike for commuting and exercise. I have
> looked up
> the Novarro Element and the Bianchi Volpe in the $1,000-ish range.
> What other
> bikes are in the range?
>
> The Element is nicely spec'ed. I am wondering if the mechanic disk
> brakes offer
> any real advantages, and I am concerned they may be more difficult to
> adjust
> and maintain (I am not at all familiar with disk brakes). The Lemond
> Poprad has
> disks, too.

My most recent experience with disks:

Two days ago, a bike tourist passed through our area on a new bike. A
mutual friend asked me to help repair his rear rack.

The problem? The bike had front and rear disks. The shop couldn't fit
a proper rear rack, because the rear disk was in the way. So they
installed a seat post rack - one of those that cantilevers off the seat
post, and is rated for 25 pounds or so. Needless to say, the rider was
carrying more than 25 pounds. The broken welds and bent aluminum
proved it.

There are some advantages to disks, but IMO, unless you're doing lots
of hard braking in deep mud or snow, there are probably more
disadvantages.

- Frank Krygowski

[nash]

Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
one holds 25kg the other 40kg.
You want to tour you can with that.
they weigh in around 800gm and under.
I am getting the Olympic when it comes in.
My bike shop has had it on back order for months and months,,
I checked other shops and needless to say they are all waiting,
this is a fairly new thing and the demand is higher than expected I expect.

Do not listen to everyone hear they may not know what they are talking
about. It has been a good experience as far as I am concerned. With heavy
loads like when touring disc brakes would always be the best. I would not
leave home though without knowing how to dismantle and/or replace the pads.
There is no slippage, for another advantage when it rains and that is all it
does here. Gee I think this is the perfect PNW bike.

disc brakes are devine

[landotter]

nash wrote:
> Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
> one holds 25kg

The Axiom racks are horrid. They flex and no amount of bolt tightening
will mitigate that. They will deflect under load and sometimes disable
the rear brake. I had a bike with discs and an Axiom rack and hated the
combo so much I sold the bike. I even had to hacksaw a couple of the
struts to make fenders fit. It's just not worth it.

Cantis are classy, stop great, and if you wear out a rim, so what? Rim
transplants are quick and easy. With the proper shoes, they stop just
great in the rain, but unlike cable discs, aren't apt to howl when wet.

Discs have their place, but it's not on road bikes or all-rounders. Any
dual pivot brake or canti will stop you just fine on pavement provided
they're adjusted properly.

[nash]

"landotter" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> nash wrote:
>> Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
>> one holds 25kg
>
> The Axiom racks are horrid. They flex and no amount of bolt tightening
> will mitigate that. They will deflect under load and sometimes disable
> the rear brake. I had a bike with discs and an Axiom rack and hated the
> combo so much I sold the bike. I even had to hacksaw a couple of the
> struts to make fenders fit. It's just not worth it.
>
> Cantis are classy, stop great, and if you wear out a rim, so what? Rim
> transplants are quick and easy. With the proper shoes, they stop just
> great in the rain, but unlike cable discs, aren't apt to howl when wet.
>
> Discs have their place, but it's not on road bikes or all-rounders. Any
> dual pivot brake or canti will stop you just fine on pavement provided
> they're adjusted properly.

What about rain? Have you used the new racks?
When did you have that experience?
A good lbs may know better how to install. I have not got mine yet so I do
not know yet for sure but he said the eyelet for the brake cable would
steady it. I guess if you clamp it above the built in eyelet. The
Journeyman looks more stable. I hope it works.
Now I remember too they have a special lock system. These are new.
Versalock
http://www.axiomgear.com/racks_disc/journey_disc.php

[landotter]

nash wrote:
> "landotter" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > nash wrote:
> >> Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
> >> one holds 25kg
> >
> > The Axiom racks are horrid. They flex and no amount of bolt tightening
> > will mitigate that. They will deflect under load and sometimes disable
> > the rear brake. I had a bike with discs and an Axiom rack and hated the
> > combo so much I sold the bike. I even had to hacksaw a couple of the
> > struts to make fenders fit. It's just not worth it.
> >
> > Cantis are classy, stop great, and if you wear out a rim, so what? Rim
> > transplants are quick and easy. With the proper shoes, they stop just
> > great in the rain, but unlike cable discs, aren't apt to howl when wet.
> >
> > Discs have their place, but it's not on road bikes or all-rounders. Any
> > dual pivot brake or canti will stop you just fine on pavement provided
> > they're adjusted properly.
>
> What about rain?

Both my road bikes have dual pivot brakes and stop fine in the rain. My
old disc braked bike made enough noise to rile the neighborhood dogs
when I braked in the rain. Granted it was probably finger grease on the
rotor.

I'd think about discs only if I was thinking about starting to muck
about in the woods around here again, and I'd likely stay with linear
pull due to the simplicity and Tennessee terrain.

> Have you used the new racks?

Yes, this spring and summer. Every day for utility store fetching
stuff.

> When did you have that experience?
> A good lbs may know better how to install.

I'm a far better mechanic than *most* of the wrenches at the LBS.
[/ego] The problem with the rack is inherent in the design used to
connect the disc side stay. It took me a few hours to install it, as I
had to custom bend the fender stays, and shorten a few struts here or
there to make it work. Nothing unusual about the bike. Standard
wannabe cxcross frame with brazeons.


>I have not got mine yet so I do
> not know yet for sure but he said the eyelet for the brake cable would
> steady it. I guess if you clamp it above the built in eyelet. The
> Journeyman looks more stable. I hope it works.
> Now I remember too they have a special lock system. These are new.
> Versalock
> http://www.axiomgear.com/racks_disc/journey_disc.php

That's the one, and it's a royal piece of unstable sh*t.

[[email protected]]

Thank you guys.

I bought a Jamis Aurora, similarly spec'ed as the Volpe (both are steel

coincidentally) but cheaper. Another conspicuous difference is the
narrow tires (700x28 vs. 700x32).

I did like the Bianchi's subdued paints, in sharp contrast to Trek's
and
Specialized's "LOOK AT ME!" paints.

-Paul

[landotter]

wrote:
> Thank you guys.
>
> I bought a Jamis Aurora, similarly spec'ed as the Volpe (both are steel
>
> coincidentally) but cheaper. Another conspicuous difference is the
> narrow tires (700x28 vs. 700x32).
>
> I did like the Bianchi's subdued paints, in sharp contrast to Trek's
> and
> Specialized's "LOOK AT ME!" paints.
>
> -Paul

Nice! I should have mentioned it, but it always flies under the radar
in my brain. The Aurora is a fantastic bike and great value! Nothing
too eccentric about it, racks, fenders, etc. mount on it without
hassle. A real classic.

Good choice!

[nash]

Without knowing it I guess like necessity iis the Mother Of Invention,
I had bought a $10 garage sale Nishiki 10 speed and put hybrid (fatter
with knobbies) tires on the 27" wheel and basically you have the now
new cyclocross bikes. happens to be around 1990 when I needed it.

[[email protected]]

I see what you are saying. I was only looking for a road bike
that is not a racing machine.

Before I bought the Aurora, I also looked at a well-spec'ed
REI Randonnee (sp?) -- REI does not use house-brand
(translation: no-name) components. It turned out I liked the
Aurora's geometry.

It is always good to have a new bike.

-Paul

nash wrote:
> Without knowing it I guess like necessity iis the Mother Of Invention,
> I had bought a $10 garage sale Nishiki 10 speed and put hybrid (fatter
> with knobbies) tires on the 27" wheel and basically you have the now
> new cyclocross bikes. happens to be around 1990 when I needed it.

[nash]

landotter wrote:
> nash wrote:
> > Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
> > one holds 25kg
>
> The Axiom racks are horrid. They flex and no amount of bolt tightening
> will mitigate that. They will deflect under load and sometimes disable
> the rear brake. I had a bike with discs and an Axiom rack and hated the
> combo so much I sold the bike. I even had to hacksaw a couple of the
> struts to make fenders fit. It's just not worth it.
>
> Cantis are classy, stop great, and if you wear out a rim, so what? Rim
> transplants are quick and easy. With the proper shoes, they stop just
> great in the rain, but unlike cable discs, aren't apt to howl when wet.
>
> Discs have their place, but it's not on road bikes or all-rounders. Any
> dual pivot brake or canti will stop you just fine on pavement provided
> they're adjusted properly.

I talked to GT today. You can put a normal frame rack on a disc brake
bike with eyelets. There are special triangular holes down and back of
the chainstay where racks usually hook up. You need special eyelet
brackets thingys for it. (his words not mine) Depends on the model.
Previous GT frames he said were made so they took them as per usual.
I will be getting mine done soon.

[[email protected]]

I have been lookiing at the responses. I work at REI and think the
element is a good deal. Allthough, I must admit, I have never thought
that disc breaks were that necessary. If you were going to commute
through rain sleet and snow, then it woudl be handy, buit when it is
that bad, you are not going that fast.

Also, the Surly Crosscheck is a cool bike. Steel is great for
commuting. Easy on the body.


nash wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > nash wrote:
> > > Axiom has two models for disc brake bikes
> > > one holds 25kg
> >
> > The Axiom racks are horrid. They flex and no amount of bolt tightening
> > will mitigate that. They will deflect under load and sometimes disable
> > the rear brake. I had a bike with discs and an Axiom rack and hated the
> > combo so much I sold the bike. I even had to hacksaw a couple of the
> > struts to make fenders fit. It's just not worth it.
> >
> > Cantis are classy, stop great, and if you wear out a rim, so what? Rim
> > transplants are quick and easy. With the proper shoes, they stop just
> > great in the rain, but unlike cable discs, aren't apt to howl when wet.
> >
> > Discs have their place, but it's not on road bikes or all-rounders. Any
> > dual pivot brake or canti will stop you just fine on pavement provided
> > they're adjusted properly.
>
> I talked to GT today. You can put a normal frame rack on a disc brake
> bike with eyelets. There are special triangular holes down and back of
> the chainstay where racks usually hook up. You need special eyelet
> brackets thingys for it. (his words not mine) Depends on the model.
> Previous GT frames he said were made so they took them as per usual.
> I will be getting mine done soon.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article . com>,
" > wrote:


> Also, the Surly Crosscheck is a cool bike. Steel is great for
> commuting. Easy on the body.

The discernable, transcended!

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/tree/browse_frm/thread/9
c5bfb0413635fd5/cee48663e912ba36?rnum=81&q=transcend+discernable&_done=%2
Fgroup%2Frec.bicycles.misc%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2 F9c5bfb0413635fd5%2Fdc7
cdfa6bfaef271%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3Dtranscend+discernab le%26rnum%3D2%26#doc_13
67bf040ffd3de7

http://tinyurl.com/y5hvw2

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[nash]

disc brakes are especially advantageous in mountain biking and muddy
trails. rim brakes would clog up. Control is excellent with these.
Feather touch but brakes started squealing one day and the next they
didn't. I hope it has been solved whatever that was. Did not need
AirZound on that day.

[nash]

>>>>>It took me a few hours to install it, as I
had to custom bend the fender stays, and shorten a few struts here or
there to make it work. Nothing unusual about the bike. Standard
wannabe cxcross frame with brazeons.

The bike shop took maybe 15-20 minutes. No modifying was done so I
doubt you have the same bike The rack is perfectly fit to my bike with
no adjustment save the versalock which why it is there. If I have a
problem with it I can take it back and they can adjust or tighten
whatever without cost. That is why I let them do it. I got the
Journeyman even though I will not have to carry 88 pounds of grocery
ever. The odyssey was only a couple hundred grams lighter so it made
more sense to get the stronger one.