[OT] Pravda still spreading Dissention

[Davey Crockett]

Pravda |The Truth] seems to be cooling to America these days

Maybe the love affair's over?

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/85662-0/
--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett
[No 4Q to reply]

[[email protected]]

Davey Crockett wrote:
> Pravda |The Truth] seems to be cooling to America these days
>
> Maybe the love affair's over?
>
> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/85662-0/
> --

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading that. I've never seen those TV
judges and most of the other clowns but he sure nailed Rush Limbaugh.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think the author of that piece is a lawyer somewhere on the east
coast (of the US) who writes a legal piece for Pravda.

Tom

[Davey Crockett]

" > writes:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> > Pravda |The Truth] seems to be cooling to America these days
> >
> > Maybe the love affair's over?
> >
> > http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/85662-0/
> > --
>
> Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading that. I've never seen those TV
> judges and most of the other clowns but he sure nailed Rush Limbaugh.
> I couldn't have said it better myself.
>
> I think the author of that piece is a lawyer somewhere on the east
> coast (of the US) who writes a legal piece for Pravda.

Davey only goes there coz they have great Pin-Up pix every day

Davey isn't interested in Politics

He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings

http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
"You are not worth the dust
which the rude wind blows in your face." -- King Lear, IV.2

[Davey Crockett]

" > writes:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> > Pravda |The Truth] seems to be cooling to America these days
> >
> > Maybe the love affair's over?
> >
> > http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/85662-0/
> > --
>
> Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading that. I've never seen those TV
> judges and most of the other clowns but he sure nailed Rush Limbaugh.
> I couldn't have said it better myself.
>
> I think the author of that piece is a lawyer somewhere on the east
> coast (of the US) who writes a legal piece for Pravda.
>

Prolly Lafferty uner a psudonym

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
"The dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns." -- Hamlet, III.1

[Paul Cassel]

Davey Crockett wrote:
> Pravda |The Truth] seems to be cooling to America these days
>
> Maybe the love affair's over?
>
> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/85662-0/

Great parody! Thanks.

[[email protected]]

Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
> into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
> setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings
>
> http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg
>

You lie, Sassenach imperialist running dog. Go flutter your cross of
st. george and cease mocking the banner of the Britons.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Davey Crockett > wrote:

> Davey isn't interested in Politics
>
> He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
> into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
> setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings
>
> http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg

Shurely your proper flag of birth is this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Canadian_Red_Ensign.svg

I bet Davey is into Dominionation,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[Davey Crockett]

writes:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> >
> > He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
> > into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
> > setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings
> >
> > http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg
> >
>
> You lie, Sassenach imperialist running dog. Go flutter your cross of
> st. george and cease mocking the banner of the Britons.
>

Wowee, dude

You sure need edificating

The Cross of St George and the Union Banner of which it forms part is
the Slave flag

This is the flag of the British/Bretons/Gauls/Welsh whom the English
drove into the hills of Wales and HaggisReich Centuries ago

http://azurservers.com/flag/britishflag.jpg

and which they proudly flew on their airline before it went titterz [tits
up] unlike the Cowardly Tony Bliar who decreeds that the Union Flag be
removed from British Airways planes and facilities since it might
offend Muslims as if anyone gives a Monkey's **** for Tony Bliar or
Musselmen either for that matter if they are that touchy

http://azurservers.com/flag/AirWales.jpg

And they have a National Anthem too, "Hen Wlad fy Nadhau"
which roughly translates into "Land of my Fathers"

http://azurservers.com/flag/welshanthem.mp3

This be the Flag of the English Patriots

http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/

Like the PollyVouerz say - Liberté, Egailté, Fraternité == Séparation

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
*This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,"
-- King Richard II, II.1

[Davey Crockett]

Ryan Cousineau > writes:

> In article >,
> Davey Crockett > wrote:
>
> > Davey isn't interested in Politics
> >
> > He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
> > into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
> > setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings
> >
> > http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg
>
> Shurely your proper flag of birth is this one:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Canadian_Red_Ensign.svg
>
> I bet Davey is into Dominionation,

Davey is no Imperialist

Give it back to the Indians

Perhaps they will have a better Immigration Policy this time around

Davey is the Prototype for the Modern Day Trans-National

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
Shakespeare: "My words fly up, my thoughts remain below:
Words without thoughts never to heaven go." -- Hamlet, III.4

[Davey Crockett]

writes:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> >
> > He's happy waving his National Flag, the flag the English, carried
> > into battle for hundreds of years prior to suffering a bit af a
> > setback at the hands of Billy The ******* at Hastings
> >
> > http://azurservers.com/flag/dragon_flag.jpg
> >
>
> You lie, Sassenach imperialist running dog. Go flutter your cross of
> st. george and cease mocking the banner of the Britons.
>

Firkin' Slave Flag is that Union Flag

And don't you remember Nicole on the podium a few years back and the
dumb ******z played "God Save our [Imported] Queen" because they
either didn't know or couldn't find music for "Hen Wlad fy Nhadau"

That is the Anthem of the British

http://azurservers.com/flag/nicole.jpg

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
X-Shakespeare: "That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man,
If with his tongue he cannot win a woman."
-- The Two Gentlemen of Verona, III.1.105-6

[Donald Munro]

Davey Crockett wrote:
> And don't you remember Nicole on the podium a few years back and the
> dumb ******z played "God Save our [Imported] Queen" because they
> either didn't know or couldn't find music for "Hen Wlad fy Nhadau"
>
> That is the Anthem of the British

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/sex+pistols/god+save+the+queen_20123626.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2lpc75EgrA

[[email protected]]

Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> This be the Flag of the English Patriots
>
> http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/
>

Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...

Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 3:56 am, wrote:
> Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
>
> >http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
>
> Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.

Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?
Bill C

[Donald Munro]

Bill C wrote:
> Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?

Attila was a cool dude. This AJ Smith guy should change his name to
Attila, AJ Smith is a very uncool name; Atilla Smith has a bit more of a
ring to it.

[Davey Crockett]

"Bill C" > writes:

> On Dec 7, 3:56 am, wrote:
> > Davey Crockett wrote:
> >
> > > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
> >
> > >http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com
> > Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> > there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
> >
> > Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.
>
> Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?
> Bill C
>

Davey Laffz

This oughta really get the guy going

http://azurservers.com/flag/das-hakenkreuz-lied.mp3

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
X-Shakespeare: "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly." -- Macbeth, I.7

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 3:54 pm, Donald Munro > wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> > northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> > the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> > couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> > making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?Attila was a cool dude. This AJ Smith guy should change his name to
> Attila, AJ Smith is a very uncool name; Atilla Smith has a bit more of a
> ring to it.

Had nothing to do with Attila:
http://www.amazon.com/Quest-Lost-Roman-Legions-Discovering/dp/1932714081

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest
Arminius on the other hand was the man, fighting Imperialism and
enslavement.
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 4:03 pm, Davey Crockett >
wrote:
> "Bill C" > writes:
> > On Dec 7, 3:56 am, wrote:
> > > Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> > > > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
>
> > > >http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com
> > > Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> > > there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
>
> > > Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.
>
> > Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> > northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> > the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> > couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> > making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?
> > Bill CDavey Laffz
>
> This oughta really get the guy going
>
> http://azurservers.com/flag/das-hakenkreuz-lied.mp3
>
> --
> Le vent à Dos
> Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
> X-Shakespeare: "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
> It were done quickly." -- Macbeth, I.7- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

This stuff too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/de-nw-w).html
Not that there's any cultural link...

and finally more spin:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/neo_nazi_imperial_german_flag.asp

Bill C

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

>
> Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?
> Bill C

No, it's my standard reaction to people who take up the cause of Shoah
denial and peddle ahistorical claptrap. Your Northern European
Heritage is but a crock of **** peddled as glory by 19th century race
warriors. And bought into by people who need to feel good about
themselves. I have Northern European Ancestors; I also have ancestors
who raised crops, wore clothes, and wrote books when the Northern
Europeans were grubbing for roots in their animal pelts. What do
either have to do with me?

As for Hermann, he was a petty chiefling who played both sides of the
fence and wound up killed by his people when he tried to make himself a
king. And Varus was of the same ilk as Custer, Goering, and Bush.

[Howard Kveck]

In article om>,
wrote:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
> >
> > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
> >
> > http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/
> >
>
> Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
>
> Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.

You might also get a clue from past hints at Holocaust denial (referred to as
"truth seeking") from DC.

http://tinyurl.com/yzupqk

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 9:33 pm, wrote:
I also have ancestors
> who raised crops, wore clothes, and wrote books when the Northern
> Europeans were grubbing for roots in their animal pelts. What do
> either have to do with me?
>
> As for Hermann, he was a petty chiefling who played both sides of the
> fence and wound up killed by his people when he tried to make himself a
> king. And Varus was of the same ilk as Custer, Goering, and Bush.

This is what one of those 19th century folks had to say on it's
relevance:
This saying appears in many different forms, but the earliest version
is probably that of the poet and philosopher George Santayana: "Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

"Notable Quotations from George Santayana
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"

Collecting and Editing the Works of George Santayana
http://www.iupui.edu/~santedit/

"The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Studying history is necessary to avoid repeating past mistakes. This
saying comes from the writings of George Santayana, a Spanish-born
American author of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries."

Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 8, 7:33 am, "Bill C" > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 9:33 pm, wrote:
> I also have ancestors
>
> > who raised crops, wore clothes, and wrote books when the Northern
> > Europeans were grubbing for roots in their animal pelts. What do
> > either have to do with me?
>
> > As for Hermann, he was a petty chiefling who played both sides of the
> > fence and wound up killed by his people when he tried to make himself a
> > king. And Varus was of the same ilk as Custer, Goering, and Bush. This is what one of those 19th century folks had to say on it's
> relevance:
> This saying appears in many different forms, but the earliest version
> is probably that of the poet and philosopher George Santayana: "Those
> who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
>
> "Notable Quotations from George Santayana
> 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
> Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
>
> Collecting and Editing the Works of George Santayanahttp://www.iupui.edu/~santedit/
>
> "The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002.
>
> Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
>
> Studying history is necessary to avoid repeating past mistakes. This
> saying comes from the writings of George Santayana, a Spanish-born
> American author of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries."
>
> Bill C

Got a few more minutes now to add a few more thoughts:
I'm proud when my kids, or someome I've taught, or trained does good
things, but that in no way detracts from my ability and willingness to
recognize others achievements.
As for how it's relevant, and for the northern European achievements,
in my world it's pretty simple. Music, art, literature, pholosophy,
philosophy of law and justice, architecture, medicine, science,
etc...and their development all play important parts in my world. Sorry
they don't in yours.
Now as for those 19th century racists. Racism and discrimination
didn't start in the 19th century, or with northern European peoples. My
guess is that it began somewhere near Olduvai Gorge as soon as there
were enough people so that some looked different, or if you buy into
the paralell evolution theory we'll include a couple of other sites
too.
It's been prevelant on every continent in every century, and still is.
If you think that "your" people weren't part of it your an idiot, ansd
if you think that none of that is relevant you are an idiot.
Seems to me that you just may be an idiot.
Have a great day and you have my best wishes.
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 8, 1:17 am, Howard Kveck > wrote:
> In article om>,
>
> wrote:
> > Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> > > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
>
> > >http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/
>
> > Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> > there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
>
> > Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co. You might also get a clue from past hints at Holocaust denial (referred to as
> "truth seeking") from DC.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yzupqk
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

I will agree with Davey on that Holocaust denial should NOT be
illegal. Who decides what's offensive speech? PC speech codes, and this
is one are one of the things I think the Democrats will strive to
massively expand here to match those in Europe.
IMO unless the speech leads to direct physical harm, such as "Fire" in
a theater we've got no business squashing it, or making it criminal.
Being offended, or claiming that it should be banned because someone
failed to control their violence in reaction is garbage too. That just
encourages immediate violence to silence those you disagree with.
Speech should be free and legal, assault, threats, and other violence
in response to speech should be illegal.
Bush is in power, what "speech codes", like the ones at universities,
could Cheney, Coulter, Malkin, and Robertson come up with to make law?
Nothing I want to happen. Same for Pelosi, Clinton, Soros, Moore, and
Gore.
Bill C

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

> I will agree with Davey on that Holocaust denial should NOT be
> illegal. Who decides what's offensive speech? PC speech codes, and this
> is one are one of the things I think the Democrats will strive to
> massively expand here to match those in Europe.

dumbass,

everyone is for free speech in theory, but the fact is if you are a
minority somewhere, you are always going to be nervous about the
majority turning on you, and who's going to protect you when the army
and police and the public are all part of that majority ? like the
famous benjamin franklin quote: "democracy is two wolves and a lamb
voting on what to have for lunch,..".

it's not the speech that worries me, it's the inciteful intent. frankly
i don't trust the government or the majority public to look out for me.
white power movements are always more scary than black power movements.
white people know the army and police are there for them if there's
ever angry hordes of black people.

in europe they've recognized this because of their history of
anti-semitism. now if only they could take it a step further and allow
citizens to carry handguns.

[Fred Fredburger]

Bill C wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 3:56 am, wrote:
>> Davey Crockett wrote:
>>
>>> This be the Flag of the English Patriots
>>> http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
>> there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
>>
>> Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co.
>
> Your reaction seems to be the standard reaction to any person of
> northern European heritage who's proud of it. I get that Nazi **** all
> the time about Germany. It's garbage. The Nazis were 25 years out of a
> couple thousand. Not quite sure what the hell they had to do with
> making a couple of the Roman Empires best legions into tree ornaments?
> Bill C
>

Elvis Costello references trump Nazi references, making it all OK.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:

> My guess is that it began ... as soon as there
> were enough people so that some looked different,...

"Looking different" has never been a necessary condition for humans to
enslave others, although it has been claimed as a sufficient
(convenient) condition.

The Angles and Saxon "move" to the island ("Angleland">>>England) was
an invasion. Nothing special to be proud of.

And culture is memes, not genes. Memes can be transmitted to anybody
and of any appearance, since there is only one (genetic) race of
humans. Nothing special there either.

It is all a bunch of phoney nationalistic crap, and here we see only
the picking of a different time in history to snapshot the arbitrary
nation of one's favor.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:

> Who decides what's offensive speech?

The property owner.

Guvmint "property" will always suffer the "tragedy of the commons"
because ownership was vaporized.

Eliminate guvmint, bye-bye problem.

Justice Holmes was out to lunch on this one.

[Donald Munro]

Fred Fredburger wrote:
> Elvis Costello references trump Nazi references, making it all OK.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+costello/two+little+hitlers_20047212.html

Oh yes and the Boomtown Rats too:
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/I-Never-Loved-Eva-Braun-lyrics-Boomtown-Rats/56743A3ACF518DBF48256E8C000FAB59

[Donald Munro]

Donald Munro wrote:
>> Attila was a cool dude. This AJ Smith guy should change his name to
>> Attila, AJ Smith is a very uncool name; Atilla Smith has a bit more of a
>> ring to it.

BillC wrote:
> Had nothing to do with Attila:
> http://www.amazon.com/Quest-Lost-Roman-Legions-Discovering/dp/1932714081
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest
> Arminius on the other hand was the man, fighting Imperialism and
> enslavement.

Perhaps, but I still think Attila Smith sounds better than Arminius Smith.

[Bill C]

On Dec 8, 9:30 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > My guess is that it began ... as soon as there
> > were enough people so that some looked different,..."Looking different" has never been a necessary condition for humans to
> enslave others, although it has been claimed as a sufficient
> (convenient) condition.
>
> The Angles and Saxon "move" to the island ("Angleland">>>England) was
> an invasion. Nothing special to be proud of.
>
> And culture is memes, not genes. Memes can be transmitted to anybody
> and of any appearance, since there is only one (genetic) race of
> humans. Nothing special there either.
>
> It is all a bunch of phoney nationalistic crap, and here we see only
> the picking of a different time in history to snapshot the arbitrary
> nation of one's favor.

Yep you have to trace the history of the culture and that's fluid
across both borders and time. Much more so today than in the past
though.
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 8, 9:36 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Who decides what's offensive speech?The property owner.
>
> Guvmint "property" will always suffer the "tragedy of the commons"
> because ownership was vaporized.
>
> Eliminate guvmint, bye-bye problem.
>
> Justice Holmes was out to lunch on this one.

Then the biggest, best armed, nastiest folks get to say whatever the
hell they want, and everyone else gets beat down. Greaqt system.
Bill C

[[email protected]]

Donald Munro wrote:

> Perhaps, but I still think Attila Smith sounds better than Arminius Smith.

If he went to Baltimore, all the waitresses would call him "hon".

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 8, 9:36 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > Who decides what's offensive speech?The property owner.
> >
> > Guvmint "property" will always suffer the "tragedy of the commons"
> > because ownership was vaporized.
> >
> > Eliminate guvmint, bye-bye problem.
> >
> > Justice Holmes was out to lunch on this one.
>
> Then the biggest, best armed, nastiest folks get to say whatever the
> hell they want, and everyone else gets beat down. Greaqt system.

You're the longrunning rbr champ of non-sequiturs. I explicitly say
"respect the property principle," and you immediately read it back as
"don't respect property, shoot-em-up." WTF?

If you come on my property (initially invited) and start spouting crap
I don't like, then get off my property or get hurt. And vice versa.

Yer gunna let the guvmint decide what's offensive on guvmint
"property?" LOL. Great system.

Yer gunna go into people's living rooms and tell them what to say and
what not to say, what to think and what not to think. Great system.

After all, why should anyone respect the person, property, and privacy
of others when you can just take it by force of arms? Great system,
Bill, great system.

[Bill C]

On Dec 9, 6:35 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 8, 9:36 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> > > Bill C wrote:
> > > > Who decides what's offensive speech?The property owner.
>
> > > Guvmint "property" will always suffer the "tragedy of the commons"
> > > because ownership was vaporized.
>
> > > Eliminate guvmint, bye-bye problem.
>
> > > Justice Holmes was out to lunch on this one.
>
> > Then the biggest, best armed, nastiest folks get to say whatever the
> > hell they want, and everyone else gets beat down. Greaqt system.You're the longrunning rbr champ of non-sequiturs. I explicitly say
> "respect the property principle," and you immediately read it back as
> "don't respect property, shoot-em-up." WTF?
>
> If you come on my property (initially invited) and start spouting crap
> I don't like, then get off my property or get hurt. And vice versa.
>
> Yer gunna let the guvmint decide what's offensive on guvmint
> "property?" LOL. Great system.
>
> Yer gunna go into people's living rooms and tell them what to say and
> what not to say, what to think and what not to think. Great system.
>
> After all, why should anyone respect the person, property, and privacy
> of others when you can just take it by force of arms? Great system,
> Bill, great system.

You seem to assume that there is this spontaneous support for this
"property principle". All of human history has shown that gangs band
together to take the property and dominate the weak when the "weak"
don't band together as a "government" to protect themselves as a group.
History has shown that, once they band together for self protection,
by coercion and violence, they expand that to the detriment of those
who are weaker.
You have yet to show anything vaguely resembling a working version, in
the real world, of your system. Iceland was coercive and had a core
central leadership that imposed it's judgement by violence. Not the
individualist paradise, where everyone was free and equal, except the
slaves of course.
Communism is great in theory too, but every study, ever done shows it
breaking down, due to human nature at about 200-400 people. At that
point groups begin to band together to assert their will abd
superiority. Your theory has, exactly the same human failings.
Bill C

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:

> You seem to assume that there is this spontaneous support for this
> "property principle".

Obviously there is and it is the most common form of interaction
practiced by people (trade and non-trespass). It is simply not
universal. Wake up. The few exceptions of warmongering is all you
notice because they are such spectacular violations of regular and
normal practice. You have a warped vision of reality.

> All of human history has shown that gangs band
> together to take the property and dominate the weak when the "weak"
> don't band together as a "government" to protect themselves as a group.

IOW, with all your bull**** about the "weak," is that they are not weak
at all since they *dominate*.

> History has shown that, once they band together for self protection,
> by coercion and violence,...

Whoa there Bill. At that early point there isn't coercion. It is
simply voluntary and cooperative defense.
Individuals/families/subgroups could break off if they don't seek the
protection of the more formidible group. In the American revolution,
for example, there wasn't conscription (coerced participation by
colonists for the cause of indpendence).

> ...they expand that to the detriment of those
> who are weaker.

Yes, and so my point of that is to stop it before it gets there. And
you don't like it!!! You simultaneously make opposing points, which is
usually called incoherence.

> You have yet to show anything vaguely resembling a working version, in
> the real world, of your system.

That is riduculous. By that argument, Madison's republican government
should have been never created because no one had ever done it before.
Anything that has not been done should not be done, according to you.

Why do you keep bringing up your silly non-argument? I guess it is
because you are a conservative: if is does not exist then it should
never exist. But then you have an impossible problem of explaining all
the social rules of conduct that already exist. It is as if you think
a God swept down and created a world with a wave of "his" magic hand --
there was non-existence then poof!, near complete order appears with a
few residual problems of warmongering. Sheesh. Now who do you talk to
that buys that crap?

> Your theory has, exactly the same human failings.

Um, the whole point is to recognize ourselves for what we are --
"failings" and all -- and arrange our formal and informal rules of
conduct accordingly. "My theory" {laughs} accepts human nature for
what it is. I recognize the dangers of concentration of power and
propose minimzing concentration. But you trip over the same old rock
over and over, bitching about the pain, and then complain to me for
pointing out the rock.

[Howard Kveck]

In article om>,
"Bill C" > wrote:

> As for how it's relevant, and for the northern European achievements,
> in my world it's pretty simple. Music, art, literature, pholosophy,
> philosophy of law and justice, architecture, medicine, science,
> etc...and their development all play important parts in my world. Sorry
> they don't in yours.

I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.

> Now as for those 19th century racists. Racism and discrimination
> didn't start in the 19th century, or with northern European peoples. My
> guess is that it began somewhere near Olduvai Gorge as soon as there
> were enough people so that some looked different, or if you buy into
> the paralell evolution theory we'll include a couple of other sites
> too.
> It's been prevelant on every continent in every century, and still is.

I suspect that Greg may be stunned to hear this, but on the issue of "race" we're
in agreement. There may have been bigotry since day one, but "race" is an artificial
construct that has its roots in the work of Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish botanist
who created the scientific system of classifying organisms (which appeared in the
1730s). Following along after this were any number of other so-called "systems" that
seek to classify the human race. Unfortunately for all of these "systems," there is
no scientific basis to justify them. While there are enough genetic differences
between, for example, a ball python and a reticulated python to describe them as
separate species, these genetic differences between humans don't exist. Anyway, the
sole reason for the use of "race" is to help give the appearance of support to the
idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Howard Kveck]

In article om>,
"Bill C" > wrote:

> On Dec 8, 1:17 am, Howard Kveck > wrote:
> > In article om>,
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Davey Crockett wrote:
> >
> > > > This be the Flag of the English Patriots
> >
> > > >http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/
> >
> > > Calling Mister Oswald with the swastika tattoo,
> > > there is a vacancy waiting in the English voodoo...
> >
> > > Now I better understand your little obsession with Zundel and co. You
> > > might also get a clue from past hints at Holocaust denial (referred to as
> > "truth seeking") from DC.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yzupqk

> I will agree with Davey on that Holocaust denial should NOT be
> illegal.

I pointed that out for the simple reason that it leads me to the conclusion that
his thing is a bit more insidious than merely being proud of his northern european
hereitage. If you read through the posts by the linked one, you'll see that even you
thought it suspect then. Anyway, I'm certainly not in favor of making Holocaust
denial speech illegal, but I have to say that, at this point in time, anyone who
takes it seriously is a fool and nutcase.

> Who decides what's offensive speech? PC speech codes, and this
> is one are one of the things I think the Democrats will strive to
> massively expand here to match those in Europe.

I think your fears on this are unjustified.

> IMO unless the speech leads to direct physical harm, such as "Fire" in
> a theater we've got no business squashing it, or making it criminal.
> Being offended, or claiming that it should be banned because someone
> failed to control their violence in reaction is garbage too. That just
> encourages immediate violence to silence those you disagree with.
> Speech should be free and legal, assault, threats, and other violence
> in response to speech should be illegal.
> Bush is in power, what "speech codes", like the ones at universities,
> could Cheney, Coulter, Malkin, and Robertson come up with to make law?
> Nothing I want to happen. Same for Pelosi, Clinton, Soros, Moore, and
> Gore.

Well, the people who are donors to universities are, in general, far more a part
of the culture of Bush and co. than the people on the other side. And it has been
seen that recently far more stifling of speech at universities has been done by
donor pressure ("don't allow person 'X' to come speak at the school") than people
like Soros. Besides, we've been through this kind of thing before and the people
you've cited on the issue are guys like David Horowitz, who has an agenda of
stifling speech that doesn't agree with his rightwing tilt.

Amit is correct to point out that speech isn't dangerous in and of itself, but
speech that incites is something to consider being held to account.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Bill C]

On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck > wrote:
>
.. I suspect that Greg may be stunned to hear this, but on the issue
of "race" we're
> in agreement. There may have been bigotry since day one, but "race" is an artificial
> construct that has its roots in the work of Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish botanist
> who created the scientific system of classifying organisms (which appeared in the
> 1730s). Following along after this were any number of other so-called "systems" that
> seek to classify the human race. Unfortunately for all of these "systems," there is
> no scientific basis to justify them. While there are enough genetic differences
> between, for example, a ball python and a reticulated python to describe them as
> separate species, these genetic differences between humans don't exist. Anyway, the
> sole reason for the use of "race" is to help give the appearance of support to the
> idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Race" codified as race, as you point out is a fairly new label, and
is just one of the more recent ones for grouping people. It was as you
point out used to discriminate, but all the term did was provide a
cacthall word. Before then the discrimination was still based on tribe,
culture, appearance, nation, continent, etc...
Going back to an old conversation with Kurgan; the level of "racism" ,
dislike, and discrimination between the people of China, Korea, and
Japan is centuries old and still pretty strong.
People want to feel superior to each other and anyone who is deemed to
be different. Just ask the kids who are a little different that get
bullied regulary at school. It doesn't take much.
Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
the right doing it.
I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
documenting this behavior.
It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject. I'd like to think
that his theory could work for a small isolated group of like minded
folks but this area is littered with the remains of failed communes
that came apart in the end because of human nature.
I was trying to fing the movie that was out, I think it was this
summer, documenting one of the local ones that a bunch of my friends
were connected with. Cool flashback.
out time for now I'll find it later.
Bill C
B

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 7:37 am, "Bill C" > wrote:

> out time for now I'll find it later.
> Bill C
> B- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Found the stuff:
http://www.acornproductions.net/
http://www.brotherhoodofthespirit.com/
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck > wrote:

> I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.

The reality on that one is that the Chinese were so far ahead of
everyone for a millennium or so it wasn't even close.

I suspect that Greg may be stunned to hear this, but on the issue
of "race" we're
> in agreement. There may have been bigotry since day one, but "race" is an artificial
> construct that has its roots in the work of Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish botanist
> who created the scientific system of classifying organisms (which appeared in the
> 1730s). Following along after this were any number of other so-called "systems" that
> seek to classify the human race. Unfortunately for all of these "systems," there is
> no scientific basis to justify them. While there are enough genetic differences
> between, for example, a ball python and a reticulated python to describe them as
> separate species, these genetic differences between humans don't exist. Anyway, the
> sole reason for the use of "race" is to help give the appearance of support to the
> idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

That brings up my disagreement with your "race" point. The Chinese
looked down on, and discriminated based on their inherent cultural
superiority as they saw it. This was racism without the word. It's also
hard to condemn them for it, when by every real measure, they were
totally correct and were that far ahead of everyone else.
The idea that all cultures are equal, as well as all people are equal
is garbage even though you aren't supposed to say it today.
Linus Pauling was worth more as a human being, to the rest of
humanity, than Jack The Ripper. Ridiculous comparison because the
concept is ridiculous.
I also don't consider, say Canadian culture which is more humanistic
the the US's, to be equal to the Sharia Law cultures where it's your
duty to beat the women for going out without a male escort, etc...
We DO need more rational discriminating thought on just what kind of
world we want to live in and what we are going to do to encourage it to
be that way.
Silencing the debate because it offends those who castrate little
girls is exactly what's wrong with Europes vision of politically
correct speech. Calling Sharia law barbaric is "Insulting to Islam" and
actionable, especially in the UK currently. This goes along with the
riots, Fatwas, and support for terrorist acts every time anyone dares
question Islamic values, the way everyone elses are questioned.
You've got Martin Rowson drawing the most vile, insulting,
religiously oriented, anti-Israel attacks since the forged "protocols
of the elders of Zion", weekly and there aren't any riots, yet Europe,
pretty much as a whole, caved from the threats and intimidation over
much less offensive cartoons aimed at Muslims.
Moral relativism says, "hey that's their culture so it's OK and we'd
be "moral imperialists", to borrow a phrase from a Brit politician, to
suggest it's bad.
Bill C
Loves free speech even when it isn't positive for me as opposed to
those, here and elsewhere who claim it's good, but would limit those
they disagree with.

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck > wrote:
>
> > I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.
>
> The reality on that one is that the Chinese were so far ahead of
> everyone for a millennium or so it wasn't even close.
>

dumbass,

the whole be "proud of your heritage" thing is retarded concept in
history. every person has ancestors who have done some unsavoury
things, so you don't get to pick and choose what you want to take
credit for.

are OJ's kids proud to be his kids just because ?

do sean and julian lennon get props because their dad helped write the
"white album" ?

no of course not. so why should that line of attribution be extended to
entire cultures ?

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 5:04 pm, " >
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck > wrote:
>
> > > I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.
>
> > The reality on that one is that the Chinese were so far ahead of
> > everyone for a millennium or so it wasn't even close.dumbass,
>
> the whole be "proud of your heritage" thing is retarded concept in
> history. every person has ancestors who have done some unsavoury
> things, so you don't get to pick and choose what you want to take
> credit for.
>
> are OJ's kids proud to be his kids just because ?
>
> do sean and julian lennon get props because their dad helped write the
> "white album" ?
>
> no of course not. so why should that line of attribution be extended to
> entire cultures ?

Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 5:04 pm, " >
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck > wrote:
>
> > > I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.
>
> > The reality on that one is that the Chinese were so far ahead of
> > everyone for a millennium or so it wasn't even close.dumbass,
>
> the whole be "proud of your heritage" thing is retarded concept in
> history. every person has ancestors who have done some unsavoury
> things, so you don't get to pick and choose what you want to take
> credit for.
>
> are OJ's kids proud to be his kids just because ?
>
> do sean and julian lennon get props because their dad helped write the
> "white album" ?
>
> no of course not. so why should that line of attribution be extended to
> entire cultures ?
So you equate the Nazis, Soviets, and Khmer Rouge as being equal to
the Swiss, Canadians, and Dutch?
I guess that in your world Countries and cultures that have chosen to
support human rights, education, and freedom are the same as those that
support slaughter, repression, and genocide because they both have
scumbags in them?
Bill C

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> > no of course not. so why should that line of attribution be extended to
> > entire cultures ?
> So you equate the Nazis, Soviets, and Khmer Rouge as being equal to
> the Swiss, Canadians, and Dutch?
> I guess that in your world Countries and cultures that have chosen to
> support human rights, education, and freedom are the same as those that
> support slaughter, repression, and genocide because they both have
> scumbags in them?

dumbass,

you must be out of your tree. i have no ****ing idea what you're trying
to say and how it relates to my post.

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

> Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?

dumbass,

my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, " >
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> > underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?dumbass,
>
> my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
> the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
> is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.

Bull****. Bhuddism isn't a heritage of India? Confucian priciples
aren't a heritage of China?
Dude even Kofi Annan thinks you're an idiot!:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/11/annan-address.html?ref=rss
He calls on the US to respect it's heritage of Human Rights and
Democracy, but that doesn't exist according to you.
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, " >
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> > underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?dumbass,
>
> my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
> the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
> is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.

I really thought I'd seen the most ignorant statements ever made on
RBR coming from some others, but you've outdone them all. You've called
every historian, cultural anthropologist, folklorist, religious
scholar, poly sci professor idiots. Every scientist and scholar who has
ever tracked mankind's growth, it's cultural development, how different
cultures built on their own ideas, and others as ****ups and idiots,
because there's no inheriting and building on anything but "male
pattern baldness". For all the **** Kunich takes you might be worse.
Bill C

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, " >
> wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> > > underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?dumbass,
> >
> > my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
> > the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
> > is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.
>
> Bull****. Bhuddism isn't a heritage of India? Confucian priciples
> aren't a heritage of China?


dumbass,

are you on drugs ? because you make no sense.

you can't inherit buddhism, it's something you can read about or learn
about, but it doesn't belong any more to one person that's born in the
20th century than it does to any other.

my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
just what you happen to be.

[Howard Kveck]

In article m>,
"Bill C" > wrote:

> "Race" codified as race, as you point out is a fairly new label, and
> is just one of the more recent ones for grouping people. It was as you
> point out used to discriminate, but all the term did was provide a
> cacthall word. Before then the discrimination was still based on tribe,
> culture, appearance, nation, continent, etc...

"Tribe" is the phrase that I forgot to use. It can be anything, too. From colour
to religion to political identity to whatever.

> People want to feel superior to each other and anyone who is deemed to
> be different. Just ask the kids who are a little different that get
> bullied regulary at school. It doesn't take much.
> Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> the right doing it.
> I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> documenting this behavior.
> It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
> thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
> kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject. I'd like to think
> that his theory could work for a small isolated group of like minded
> folks but this area is littered with the remains of failed communes
> that came apart in the end because of human nature.
> I was trying to fing the movie that was out, I think it was this
> summer, documenting one of the local ones that a bunch of my friends
> were connected with. Cool flashback.
> out time for now I'll find it later.
> Bill C
> B

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

> Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> the right doing it.
> I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> documenting this behavior.

Please, in honor of Paul Sherwen, you have to say
"literally millions of examples" here.

Ben

(There are somewhere around 1700-2000 four year colleges
in the US, and maybe 1200 community colleges.)

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 3:56 am, " >
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> > University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> > ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> > intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> > the right doing it.
> > I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> > systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> > documenting this behavior.Please, in honor of Paul Sherwen, you have to say
> "literally millions of examples" here.
>
> Ben
>
> (There are somewhere around 1700-2000 four year colleges
> in the US, and maybe 1200 community colleges.)

Sorry Ben
When I'm being hyperbolic I'll try to throw in a "literally" or two.
It's a crime from childhood, most all my favorite authors were great
storytellers and generally accomplished Tall Tale spinners. Way too
much folklore buried in my brain.
Bill C

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Howard Kveck wrote:

> I suspect that Greg may be stunned to hear this, but on the issue of "race" we're
> in agreement. There may have been bigotry since day one, but "race" is an artificial
> construct that has its roots in the work of Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish botanist
> who created the scientific system of classifying organisms (which appeared in the
> 1730s). Following along after this were any number of other so-called "systems" that
> seek to classify the human race. Unfortunately for all of these "systems," there is
> no scientific basis to justify them. While there are enough genetic differences
> between, for example, a ball python and a reticulated python to describe them as
> separate species, these genetic differences between humans don't exist.

No, I'm not surprised to hear that. Thanks for the brief summary.

As best I've been able to tell, "race" is always a folk distinction,
and not a scientific one. Personally, I have dropped the idea of race
as meaningful because I am never sure what people mean when they do
their categorizations. I continue to purge "race" from my language and
way of thinking, even though others continue to bombard me with
psychology I reject.

> Anyway, the sole reason for the use of "race"
> is to help give the appearance of support to the
> idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.

On this last point I must strongly disagree. In fact, it is a racist
statement itself. So-called fair skinned human beings do not (nor had
"they" ever) have monopoly on discrimination. Discrimination -- the
context here -- is not tied to genes that make people's skin light
colored.


Greg
melanin challenged

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

wrote:

> my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> just what you happen to be.

Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:

> It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
> thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
> kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject.

It's simply because you're the only one who'll talk to me.

Everyone else thinks I'm nuts, annoying, and ignore me.

You didn't know that?

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> wrote:
> > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.

We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
democracy in the world?
These things have been taught to, and affected every generation as
part of their culture, it forms who they are, what they believe, and
how they act.
Pretending that cultural inheritance has doesn't exist means that
Sharia Law, and the the Netherlands tolerance both have no historical
basis and just randomly appeared.
Cultures are built block on block from the past. Rap music is just a
variation of the "teaching song" that held sway in numerous cultures
for centuries.
I'm pretty proud to be part of a culture that developed a lot of the
thought you keep citing. That didn't occur in a lot of other cultures,
as Kurgan keeps pointing out that's totally foreign to their culture.
You're working your ass off to steer our common culture in a way you
see as better, but I'd bet you agree that the way to do that the most
effectively is teach the next generation.
That's cultural inheritance.
Every culture has bad and good things they pass on. If more people were
proud of the good, and scorned the bad then it would be a better
planet.
The problem is that what's good and bad are also cultural
inheritances.
Bill C

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 8:53 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
> > thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
> > kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject.It's simply because you're the only one who'll talk to me.
>
> Everyone else thinks I'm nuts, annoying, and ignore me.
>
> You didn't know that?

Nah, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of your subject and that's
tough to deal with and I think people just avoid you on it. That's why
I don't deal with it. I agree with a ****load of it, but my area of
study has been a strange conglomeration of human nature and societies
which gives me a different perspective.
If I hadn't been born a grunt, conditioned to it, proud of it, and
really enjoyed it I probably would've been a cultural anthropologist or
Folklorist.

This is what I've alwaystried to live by:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

Lot's of quotes here that you'd like:
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/Heinlein.html

A few I think you'd like:

An armed society is a polite society.
-Beyond This Horizon

A monarch's neck should always have a noose around it. It keeps him
upright.

Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed.
-Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does
not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
-Professor Bernardo de la Paz, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

More there, and quite a few JT would appreciate too.
Bill C

[Howard Kveck]

In article . com>,
"SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > Anyway, the sole reason for the use of "race"
> > is to help give the appearance of support to the
> > idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.
>
> On this last point I must strongly disagree. In fact, it is a racist
> statement itself. So-called fair skinned human beings do not (nor had
> "they" ever) have monopoly on discrimination. Discrimination -- the
> context here -- is not tied to genes that make people's skin light
> colored.

Oh, I certainly didn't say or even imply that fair-skinned people have or had a
monopoly on discrimination. The allegedly scientific systems to classify race have
done what I said: promote the idea that the northern European "race" is the superior
one. Example of the writings that lead to this assertion:

--------------------------------
In the 1770s, Johann Friedrich Blumenbach came up witha system that divided
humans into 5 "races" (Caucasian, American, Mongolian, Malay and Ethiopian). His
classification system centered around the "Caucasion" (called that because he
proposed that it had its roots on Mount Caucasus in Russia). To him it was the best
and most beautiful of the races. Not only that, but he believed that the caucasion
race was the *primary* race, with all others degenerations from it.
--------------------------------

Furthermore:

--------------------------------
"The European, called by his high destiny to rule the world, which he knows how
to illumine with his intelligence and subdue with his courage, is the highest
expression of man and at the head of the human race. The others, a wretched horde of
barbarians, are, so to say, no more than its embryo."
Jean-Joseph Virey
--------------------------------

There are still a lot of people who want to promote those concepts.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Donald Munro]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

> Everyone else thinks I'm nuts, annoying, and ignore me.

If you change your pseudonym to Magilla, we'll feed you bananas instead of
nuts.

Anyway I do agree with you on some details, and disagree on others.
However these days I suspect finding points of agreement with people 'from
the other side' is somewhat out of fashion.

PS Who's winning in the average number of words per post category between
you and BillC ?

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.
>
> We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
> of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
> part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
> democracy in the world?

Alþingi, the Icelandic parliament was formed in 930 (during the
commonwealth period from the settlement until 1262 when Iceland became
a part of Norway) but Iceland became an independant democracy in 1918.

[Bill C]

On Dec 13, 8:05 am, wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > > > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > > > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > > > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.
>
> > We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
> > of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
> > part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
> > democracy in the world?Alþingi, the Icelandic parliament was formed in 930 (during the
> commonwealth period from the settlement until 1262 when Iceland became
> a part of Norway) but Iceland became an independant democracy in 1918.
Here's another bit that had escaped my research and I'm not sure how.
Guess I gotta go back to work:
http://www.scandinavica.com/culture/history/man.htm
quoted:
Tynwald: a Norse system of Government

After conquering the Isle of Man in the early 9th century, the Norse
rulers brought with them their own system of law-making and
administration, the Þingvöllur or Thing-Vollr, an old Norse word
which means 'assembly field'. The Thingvollr was a open-air assembly of
free men in which laws were made and disputes were settled. From the
ancient Thingvollr of the early Norse settlers descends the present
Tynwald or parliament of the Isle of Man.

The Isle of Man's Tynwald claims to be "the oldest parliament in the
world in continuous existence", based in the belief that government by
Thingvollr or Tynwald was first established in Man during the late
800's. The Thingvellir of Iceland, traditionally considered as the
first democracy of the world, was founded in AD 930.

Good stuff!!
Bill C