cross nats? anyone?

[jerry in vermont]

just saying...its only a week away. where are all the threads about
field limits, and price gouging, and how they are killing the sport
just like they did to mtb a few years back. How about an explanation
on how they were able to jack the price up by what, 12 bucks or
something, after registration had been open a month? Is anyone at USCF
watching? 52 bucks? 220 people in the B's, in ONE race, on a CROSS
course? WTF people. The end is near.

anyone? anyone? buehler?

Oh, Page is gonna freaking race too, crazy *******. He will be the guy
with one arm hanging out of his lower back...should be a good race,
lots of contendors.

Actually, he said it feels ok and he is riding without a brace or
anything, so he is going to make nats his first race back. Still, God
only gives you two arms.

Jerry in NY

[Mark Fennell]

"jerry in vermont" wrote:
> just saying...its only a week away. where are all the threads...

ok, I'll bite...

> ...about
> field limits, and price gouging, and how they are killing the sport
> just like they did to mtb a few years back. How about an explanation
> on how they were able to jack the price up by what, 12 bucks or
> something, after registration had been open a month? Is anyone at USCF
> watching? 52 bucks?

wah, wah, wah... I wanna puke everytime some middle-aged bike racer wanks
about entry fees. I saw this whining fest on Trebon's blog. Gimme a break.
Bike racers don't know how lucky they are wrt entry fees. Less than
triathlons, comparable to running races... and you can win stuff in bike
races, unlike those other lame sports. Until there is enough competition for
your entry fee money, just be glad it isn't higher.

And yeah, *some* of the juniors are screwed, but really, how many do you
know who aren't financed by mom and dad to the tune of a few grand a year?

> 220 people in the B's, in ONE race, on a CROSS
> course? WTF people. The end is near.

Are you crazy crossers are getting more mainstream? You complain when nobody
pays attention, and now that cross is cool and a lot of people do it, you
still complain.

> anyone? anyone? buehler?

Great movie.

> Oh, Page is gonna freaking race too, crazy *******.

Who?

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

[Kurgan Gringioni]

Mark Fennell wrote:
>
> > ...about
> > field limits, and price gouging, and how they are killing the sport
> > just like they did to mtb a few years back. How about an explanation
> > on how they were able to jack the price up by what, 12 bucks or
> > something, after registration had been open a month? Is anyone at USCF
> > watching? 52 bucks?
>
> wah, wah, wah... I wanna puke everytime some middle-aged bike racer wanks
> about entry fees. I saw this whining fest on Trebon's blog. Gimme a break.
> Bike racers don't know how lucky they are wrt entry fees. Less than
> triathlons, comparable to running races... and you can win stuff in bike
> races, unlike those other lame sports. Until there is enough competition for
> your entry fee money, just be glad it isn't higher.




Dumbass -


Ya, instead of complaining, how about throwing a better race? Or
shutting up.

Either would be preferable.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[[email protected]]

Mark Fennell wrote:

> wah, wah, wah... I wanna puke everytime some middle-aged bike racer wanks
> about entry fees. I saw this whining fest on Trebon's blog.

though i've worked to keep fees down, in my experience participation
rates are actually not very sensitive to the fee. ie. if someone really
wants to do a race, $20 here or there isn't going to change there mind.


most bike racing is entertainment for the participants, even cat 1. for
other forms of entertainment, say if you golf or go out to eat, all the
people who make it possible, the greenskeepers, or the waiters are not
volunteers, so you expect the price of the activity to include those
costs. in bike racing we expect a whole crew to work for free for the
sake of entertainment.

so i do see going in a direction where you pay a number of staff for
their time in order to be a able to put on a quality event. people are
willing to pay more for a really cool race.

> And yeah, *some* of the juniors are screwed, but really, how many do you
> know who aren't financed by mom and dad to the tune of a few grand a year?

we customarily subsidize the costs for juniors, but the fact is most
juniors arent footing the bill themselves, and i would say it's
actually pretty rare that the fee is the reason there aren't more
juniors racing.

[[email protected]]

> wah, wah, wah... I wanna puke everytime some middle-aged bike racer wanks
> about entry fees. I saw this whining fest on Trebon's blog. Gimme a break.
> Bike racers don't know how lucky they are wrt entry fees. Less than
> triathlons, comparable to running races... and you can win stuff in bike
> races, unlike those other lame sports. Until there is enough competition for
> your entry fee money, just be glad it isn't higher.

Having raced some this year in Germany (where I am now) ... the
difference from the US was striking.

Most races I paid 5 Euro (for Masters ... which is called Senior here).
Similarly inexpensive for the other classes. And there were decent
prizes too -- cash + large food basket + bike goodies, etc.

It seems most races have grass-roots organization. They are put on by
one of the local clubs. Often in conjunction with some kind of town
festival. There was always some kind of bake sale, beer tent, food,
sometimes a band afterwards. lots of people from the town come out to
watch.

I don't know if the organizers get $ from the town, or maybe they don't
have to pay for police like we do. Or maybe the club just puts out the
money to do the race because it's a good thing for the sport.

Either way ... I got the distinct feeling that the races weren't put on
as revenue generating tools for promoters (yes, I know that is not
universally true in the US ... but it's true enough). It seems to
reflect the overall difference in attitude toward the sport in Europe
vs. in the US.

The fields were always very large, BTW. For all classes.

B.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 10 Dec 2006 11:37:09 -0800, "
> wrote:

>> wah, wah, wah... I wanna puke everytime some middle-aged bike racer wanks
>> about entry fees. I saw this whining fest on Trebon's blog. Gimme a break.
>> Bike racers don't know how lucky they are wrt entry fees. Less than
>> triathlons, comparable to running races... and you can win stuff in bike
>> races, unlike those other lame sports. Until there is enough competition for
>> your entry fee money, just be glad it isn't higher.
>
>Having raced some this year in Germany (where I am now) ... the
>difference from the US was striking.
>
>Most races I paid 5 Euro (for Masters ... which is called Senior here).
> Similarly inexpensive for the other classes. And there were decent
>prizes too -- cash + large food basket + bike goodies, etc.
>
>It seems most races have grass-roots organization. They are put on by
>one of the local clubs. Often in conjunction with some kind of town
>festival. There was always some kind of bake sale, beer tent, food,
>sometimes a band afterwards. lots of people from the town come out to
>watch.
>
>I don't know if the organizers get $ from the town, or maybe they don't
>have to pay for police like we do. Or maybe the club just puts out the
>money to do the race because it's a good thing for the sport.
>
>Either way ... I got the distinct feeling that the races weren't put on
>as revenue generating tools for promoters (yes, I know that is not
>universally true in the US ... but it's true enough). It seems to
>reflect the overall difference in attitude toward the sport in Europe
>vs. in the US.

Now that you're back in the US, what are the races you're helping to
put on here like?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

[Bill C]

On Dec 10, 4:52 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson >
wrote:
Now that you're back in the US, what are the races you're helping to
> put on here like?
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Some more questions. What club was he riding for? What did he add to
that club? Which races did that club put on?
Lot's of questtions there, but there's no question that the local
support is totally different between here and there. The culture, and
local businesses totally support races.
Bill Crowther
Rad Sport Club Kaiserslautern
http://www.rsc-kaiserslautern.de/cms/index.php
Northampton Cycling Club

[[email protected]]

> Now that you're back in the US, what are the races you're helping to
> put on here like?

Still here in Germany actually.

But while in the US I did promote a couple of state road champs, crit
champs, another crit and helped out with other races.

I'm not whining about promoters ... it's not easy, and I know that from
experience. Just trying to point out how different the overall
environment is. For race organizers too I imagine. That they are able
to put on good races for minimal entry fees should say something. It
was like that in Italy also. And I suspect in other EU countries.

One might ask ... is that simply a reflection of the sport being more
accepted and mainstream ... or is that in part how it got to be more
accepted and popular?

Brian B.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

wrote:
> > Now that you're back in the US, what are the races you're helping to
> > put on here like?
>
> Still here in Germany actually.
>
> But while in the US I did promote a couple of state road champs, crit
> champs, another crit and helped out with other races.
>
> I'm not whining about promoters ... it's not easy, and I know that from
> experience. Just trying to point out how different the overall
> environment is. For race organizers too I imagine. That they are able
> to put on good races for minimal entry fees should say something. It
> was like that in Italy also. And I suspect in other EU countries.




Dumbass -


They probably have more cash sponsors and less charges from law
enforcement/government.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[[email protected]]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Dumbass -
>
> They probably have more cash sponsors and less charges from law
> enforcement/government.

Probably. I wish I would have thought to ask the promoters about that.
It would be quite interesting to hear what they have to say.

Another interesting thing was that at all the races in the region,
there was a large bus that was always at the S/F where the officials,
announcer, finish camera, etc. would be. Unclear if this was provided
by the federation (which was my assumption) or if it came from a
business that did finish-line results.

and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
at a 10am Sunday morning crit.

Brian B.

[Donald Munro]

wrote:
> and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> at a 10am Sunday morning crit.

Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

[alan_atwood]

jerry in vermont wrote:
> just saying...its only a week away. where are all the threads about
> field limits, and price gouging, and how they are killing the sport
> just like they did to mtb a few years back. How about an explanation
> on how they were able to jack the price up by what, 12 bucks or
> something, after registration had been open a month? Is anyone at USCF
> watching? 52 bucks? 220 people in the B's, in ONE race, on a CROSS
> course? WTF people. The end is near.
>
> anyone? anyone? buehler?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
No, my name's not Buehler, but I'll chip in my 2 cents here. Hey
Jerry, I invite you to join the staff for my UCI races next year at
Catamount and Hanover. It'll at least give you a small taste as to
what is needed to pull a race together.

I don't know what the exact budget is for cross nationals this year,
but I would not be surprised if it's in the 6-figures. And would you
care to guess what support the NECA is getting from Colorado? Probably
nothing. So try to put together a 6-figure budget based on local and
regional sponsors, most of whom are being swayed away from the sport if
they were even interested in the first place because of all the bad
publicity lately. You're a good guy, Jerry, but don't even THINK about
the word "gouging".

And as for the late fee (the jack), there's been many discussions about
that here and elsewhere and no need to rehash that.

I do agree with you that 220 riders is going to be interested to run on
a course; I hope the course is at least a 10 minute lap for them. I
feel for Kristen and the rest of the officials who are going to have to
keep track of that one. Perhaps the chief ref could have helped here;
you know, the same one who was at Glouces..................wait a
minute, she blew off Gloucester.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oh, Page is gonna freaking race too, crazy *******. He will be the guy
> with one arm hanging out of his lower back...should be a good race,
> lots of contendors.
>
> Actually, he said it feels ok and he is riding without a brace or
> anything, so he is going to make nats his first race back. Still, God
> only gives you two arms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm verry happy to see Jon come home to race; despite the
circumstances. I wish him the best of luck. I'll be rooting for him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jerry in NY

[RicodJour]

On Dec 11, 8:05 am, Donald Munro > wrote:
> wrote:
> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

He's already fluid in bier.

R

[Carl Sundquist]

"Donald Munro" > wrote in message
. com...
> wrote:
>> and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
>> at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

He should be fluent in 6 weeks.

[[email protected]]

alan_atwood wrote:
> jerry in vermont wrote:
> > watching? 52 bucks? 220 people in the B's, in ONE race, on a CROSS
> > course? WTF people. The end is near.

> I don't know what the exact budget is for cross nationals this year,
> but I would not be surprised if it's in the 6-figures. And would you
> care to guess what support the NECA is getting from Colorado? Probably
> nothing. So try to put together a 6-figure budget based on local and
> regional sponsors, most of whom are being swayed away from the sport if
> they were even interested in the first place because of all the bad
> publicity lately. You're a good guy, Jerry, but don't even THINK about
> the word "gouging".
>
> And as for the late fee (the jack), there's been many discussions about
> that here and elsewhere and no need to rehash that.
>
> I do agree with you that 220 riders is going to be interested to run on
> a course; I hope the course is at least a 10 minute lap for them.

I guess if there are 220 riders in the B race, the entry fee was not
too much of a deterrent.

Maybe there should be a sliding scale - $40 for the A/elites, $100 for
the Bs, $40 for the Cs. On the other hand that might encourage
Bs to get in over their head in the A race, or sandbag the Cs.

The fact is, nationals is not like a local race, more people will
be traveling to it. That means the entry fee is small compared
to all your other costs, even if you crash on somebody's floor.
It's an obvious hit to your wallet so people will complain about
it more than all the other costs, but it's not that significant
overall.

The amount of work it takes to put on even a small local race
is not easy to appreciate until you help out with one.

Ben

[Kurgan Gringioni]

wrote:

> and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> at a 10am Sunday morning crit.



Dumbass -


Alcohol sales are a great way to raise cash $$$$.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[[email protected]]

wrote:

> Just trying to point out how different the overall
> environment is. For race organizers too I imagine. That they are able
> to put on good races for minimal entry fees should say something. It
> was like that in Italy also. And I suspect in other EU countries.

dumbass,

i'd say the fee situation is a reflection of the participation and not
the other way around. in my experience changing the fee doesn't really
affect the participation. even if fees in north america were reduced to
$0 the participation numbers and pattern would stay about the same.

> One might ask ... is that simply a reflection of the sport being more
> accepted and mainstream ... or is that in part how it got to be more
> accepted and popular?

a good thing to consider. i think the popularity has more to do with
club (moral) support: being able to get to events, having people to
ride with and local events that make the sport visible thereby
attracting more riders.

of course as a rider or a parent if you spend a $1000 a year vs. $100 a
year on fees it affects you in some way, but i don't thnk that's the
primary consideration if someone's trying to decide if they are going
to race bikes or not.

[[email protected]]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Alcohol sales are a great way to raise cash $$$$.
>

dumbass,

it worked for oleg tinkov.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Donald Munro > wrote:

> wrote:
> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.

My thoughts on the cost structure run to three things:

1) beer tent
2) sponsorship money
3) liability insurance costs

Locally, virtually every road race I know of is a club-run fundraiser,
either for internal projects or a chosen charity. Fees are $5 (weekly
crit) to $50 (1/2/pro events like the Tour de Gastown).

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[Donald Munro]

wrote:
>> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
>> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.

Donald Munro wrote:
>> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.
>
> My thoughts on the cost structure

Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:

http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.html

[jerry in vermont]

> No, my name's not Buehler, but I'll chip in my 2 cents here. Hey
> Jerry, I invite you to join the staff for my UCI races next year at
> Catamount and Hanover. It'll at least give you a small taste as to
> what is needed to pull a race together.
>

Cant "work" during cross season Al, you should know that.

> I don't know what the exact budget is for cross nationals this year,
> but I would not be surprised if it's in the 6-figures. And would you
> care to guess what support the NECA is getting from Colorado? Probably
> nothing. So try to put together a 6-figure budget based on local and
> regional sponsors, most of whom are being swayed away from the sport if
> they were even interested in the first place because of all the bad
> publicity lately. You're a good guy, Jerry, but don't even THINK about
> the word "gouging".

I certainly was not complaining when it was 37 bucks. I chose not to
race cause of the field sizes, not the price. I have no problem paying
37 bucks, similar to previous years, to race in an event with much more
"going on" like nationals in the past.

>
> And as for the late fee (the jack), there's been many discussions about
> that here and elsewhere and no need to rehash that.

I have not seen any discussion here or elsewhere other then some blogs
about this jack. The jack, which, I am saying it, sure looks like
gouging to me - or is there an explanation??? I would also NOT have a
problem if they wanted to charge 50 bucks, right from DAY ONE. Fine,
free country, I am all about an open economy.

Until someone explains to me why the price went WAY up (on a percentage
basis, I know its still just 12 bucks in the big picture) once
registration went crazy on opening day, then I am going to have a
problem with the promoter. Its like putting too low a reserve on an
ebay auction. ****, sold right away, damnit, should have gone higher.

I also have a problem with the field sizes, not from a money making
standpoint, but from the racers perspective as its going to ruin the
event for certain categories. You pay a premium fee, the return is
racing on the nationals course (ie really good) with a great venue.
USCF should be applying some field limit guidelines here to ensure the
controlled growth of the sport.

BTW, the Hudson Valley is lovely this time of year...not.

J

[[email protected]]

> I also have a problem with the field sizes, not from a money making
> standpoint, but from the racers perspective as its going to ruin the
> event for certain categories.

I think I'll be in the largest age group race so I'll get back to you
and let you know if it ruins it for me. Last year the course was
plenty wide enough in most places and the lap was long. The only guys
that should have their race ruined by the large field size is potential
podium finishers, which probably amounts to 10 or 15 guys, at most, in
each race. Those guys should be starting at the front anyway.

[jerry in vermont]

On Dec 12, 10:16 am, wrote:
> > I also have a problem with the field sizes, not from a money making
> > standpoint, but from the racers perspective as its going to ruin the
> > event for certain categories.I think I'll be in the largest age group race so I'll get back to you
> and let you know if it ruins it for me. Last year the course was
> plenty wide enough in most places and the lap was long. The only guys
> that should have their race ruined by the large field size is potential
> podium finishers, which probably amounts to 10 or 15 guys, at most, in
> each race. Those guys should be starting at the front anyway.

if you signed up early enough, and are fast enough, its probably fine.
if you signed up late, or are not fast, its going to be a short
event...

last year people were getting pulled early, like at all nationals
events I have ever been to. I guess that clears it out for those that
are left. I just dont want to be one of the suckers getting yanked!

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Donald Munro > wrote:

> wrote:
> >> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> >> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> Donald Munro wrote:
> >> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
>
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.
> >
> > My thoughts on the cost structure
>
> Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
> When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
> equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:
>
> http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.html

It's all good.

http://www.portlandcyclewear.com/page/page/3163257.htm

Somewhat serious: these are what I have heard are low-quality wool
jerseys. Flocked lettering for $3.50/jersey, so that means LIVEDRUNK
jerseys would be $73.50 in qty 1-11, or $50 if we could order at least
12.

I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
be an apropos colour combo, though I'm inclined to go for Red with the
black stripe and yellow lettering, as they show in some of their demo
shirts.

Proceeds will go to the best cause I can think of, my 1/2 scale replica
of Zak-Paul Gosselaar's liquor cabinet.

Just kidding: there will be no proceeds.

Seriously, is there any interest? I find it hard to believe that people
would want this stuff, but who knows.

If people want synthetic jerseys, Garneau's semi-custom program allows
you to do jersey designs with little effort and a minimum order of 12:

http://louisgarneau.com/eng/ctm_catalog.asp?catalogue=C7

The local rep is a member of my bike club and Garneau is our big
sponsor; I'd have no problem with checking pricing, which I suspect
would be a bit more than ordering 12 of the wool jerseys.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 8:19 pm, Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
> In article >,
> Donald Munro > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > >> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> > >> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> > Donald Munro wrote:
> > >> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.
>
> > > My thoughts on the cost structure
>
> > Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
> > When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
> > equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:
>
> >http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.htmlIt's all good.
>
> http://www.portlandcyclewear.com/page/page/3163257.htm
>
> Somewhat serious: these are what I have heard are low-quality wool
> jerseys. Flocked lettering for $3.50/jersey, so that means LIVEDRUNK
> jerseys would be $73.50 in qty 1-11, or $50 if we could order at least
> 12.
>
> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
> be an apropos colour combo, though I'm inclined to go for Red with the
> black stripe and yellow lettering, as they show in some of their demo
> shirts.
>
> Proceeds will go to the best cause I can think of, my 1/2 scale replica
> of Zak-Paul Gosselaar's liquor cabinet.
>
> Just kidding: there will be no proceeds.
>
> Seriously, is there any interest? I find it hard to believe that people
> would want this stuff, but who knows.
>
> If people want synthetic jerseys, Garneau's semi-custom program allows
> you to do jersey designs with little effort and a minimum order of 12:
>
> http://louisgarneau.com/eng/ctm_catalog.asp?catalogue=C7
>
> The local rep is a member of my bike club and Garneau is our big
> sponsor; I'd have no problem with checking pricing, which I suspect
> would be a bit more than ordering 12 of the wool jerseys.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau /
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I'd go for one, especially in the wool.
Bill C

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Carl Sundquist wrote:
> "Donald Munro" > wrote in message
> . com...
> > wrote:
> >> and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> >> at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
> >
> > Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
>
> He should be fluent in 6 weeks.

Was that a Warren G thread?

[Carl Sundquist]

"SLAVE of THE STATE" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> >
>> > Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
>>
>> He should be fluent in 6 weeks.
>
> Was that a Warren G thread?

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/979d304211b7ba3e

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article . com>,
"Bill C" > wrote:

> On Dec 12, 8:19 pm, Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Donald Munro > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon.
> > > >> > even
> > > >> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
> >
> > > Donald Munro wrote:
> > > >> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
> >
> > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > > Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.
> >
> > > > My thoughts on the cost structure
> >
> > > Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
> > > When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
> > > equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:
> >
> > >http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.htmlIt's all good.
> >
> > http://www.portlandcyclewear.com/page/page/3163257.htm
> >
> > Somewhat serious: these are what I have heard are low-quality wool
> > jerseys. Flocked lettering for $3.50/jersey, so that means LIVEDRUNK
> > jerseys would be $73.50 in qty 1-11, or $50 if we could order at least
> > 12.
> >
> > I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
> > be an apropos colour combo, though I'm inclined to go for Red with the
> > black stripe and yellow lettering, as they show in some of their demo
> > shirts.
> >
> > Proceeds will go to the best cause I can think of, my 1/2 scale replica
> > of Zak-Paul Gosselaar's liquor cabinet.
> >
> > Just kidding: there will be no proceeds.
> >
> > Seriously, is there any interest? I find it hard to believe that people
> > would want this stuff, but who knows.
> >
> > If people want synthetic jerseys, Garneau's semi-custom program allows
> > you to do jersey designs with little effort and a minimum order of 12:
> >
> > http://louisgarneau.com/eng/ctm_catalog.asp?catalogue=C7
> >
> > The local rep is a member of my bike club and Garneau is our big
> > sponsor; I'd have no problem with checking pricing, which I suspect
> > would be a bit more than ordering 12 of the wool jerseys.

> I'd go for one, especially in the wool.
> Bill C

That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
Don is already in.

We just need 9 more for the price break,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[Donald Munro]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> Don is already in.
>
> We just need 9 more for the price break,

Well the shipping would probably cost more than the jersey, but what the
hell....

[Kurgan Gringioni]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> >
> > Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
> > When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
> > equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:
> >
> > http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.html
>
> It's all good.
>
> http://www.portlandcyclewear.com/page/page/3163257.htm
>
> Somewhat serious: these are what I have heard are low-quality wool
> jerseys. Flocked lettering for $3.50/jersey, so that means LIVEDRUNK
> jerseys would be $73.50 in qty 1-11, or $50 if we could order at least
> 12.
>
> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
> be an apropos colour combo, though I'm inclined to go for Red with the
> black stripe and yellow lettering, as they show in some of their demo
> shirts.
>
> Proceeds will go to the best cause I can think of, my 1/2 scale replica
> of Zak-Paul Gosselaar's liquor cabinet.
>
> Just kidding: there will be no proceeds.
>
> Seriously, is there any interest? I find it hard to believe that people
> would want this stuff, but who knows.
>
> If people want synthetic jerseys, Garneau's semi-custom program allows
> you to do jersey designs with little effort and a minimum order of 12:
>
> http://louisgarneau.com/eng/ctm_catalog.asp?catalogue=C7
>
> The local rep is a member of my bike club and Garneau is our big
> sponsor; I'd have no problem with checking pricing, which I suspect
> would be a bit more than ordering 12 of the wool jerseys.



Dumbass -


Start another thread with this and you'll get more response. Some
people may already have this tagged as a cyclocross whining thread.

BTW, I wouldn't mind one.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:41:40 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
>>> be an apropos colour combo

Why? Sorry, I'm not much of a mix drinker. Can I still order the
jersey..?

I think we need a colour/layout poll. The site was very slow, I didn't
have the patience for looking up all of the designs. Nevertheless, I
vote navy/cream.

> We just need 9 more for the price break,

I'm in.

--
E. Dronkert

[Steven L. Sheffield]

On 12/13/06 6:23 AM, in article ,
"Ewoud Dronkert" > wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:41:40 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe)) would
>>>> be an apropos colour combo
>
> Why? Sorry, I'm not much of a mix drinker. Can I still order the
> jersey..?
>
> I think we need a colour/layout poll. The site was very slow, I didn't
> have the patience for looking up all of the designs. Nevertheless, I
> vote navy/cream.
>
>> We just need 9 more for the price break,
>
> I'm in.



It's the "low quality" wool and "flocked" part that is putting me off of
this ...

I'd go with one of the plastic Garneau ones, but if it's gonna be wool, I'd
rather go high-quality and embroidered.


--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

[Davey Crockett]

"Steven L. Sheffield" > writes:


> It's the "low quality" wool and "flocked" part that is putting me off of
> this ...
>
> I'd go with one of the plastic Garneau ones, but if it's gonna be wool, I'd
> rather go high-quality and embroidered.
>

Brian Lafferty is also designing some jerseys

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
X-Shakespeare: "All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts"
-- As You Like It, II.7

[Carl Sundquist]

> On 12/13/06 6:23 AM, in article
> ,
> "Ewoud Dronkert" > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:41:40 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>>>> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe))
>>>>> would
>>>>> be an apropos colour combo
>>
>> Why? Sorry, I'm not much of a mix drinker. Can I still order the
>> jersey..?
>>
>> I think we need a colour/layout poll. The site was very slow, I didn't
>> have the patience for looking up all of the designs. Nevertheless, I
>> vote navy/cream.
>>
>>> We just need 9 more for the price break,
>>
>> I'm in.

Me, too.

[William Asher]

Carl Sundquist wrote:

>> On 12/13/06 6:23 AM, in article
>> ,
>> "Ewoud Dronkert" > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:41:40 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>>>>> I'm thinking the Black and Tan (officially, Black (cream stripe))
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be an apropos colour combo
>>>
>>> Why? Sorry, I'm not much of a mix drinker. Can I still order the
>>> jersey..?
>>>
>>> I think we need a colour/layout poll. The site was very slow, I didn't
>>> have the patience for looking up all of the designs. Nevertheless, I
>>> vote navy/cream.
>>>
>>>> We just need 9 more for the price break,
>>>
>>> I'm in.
>
> Me, too.
>
>
>

I want one, but only if it says "or die" below LIVEDRUNK. Maybe you could
get distillers to sponsor this. It would be pretty funny to have an
official Stolichnaya or whatever emblem on the shoulder with "please
LIVEDRUNK responsibly" in small lettering underneath it.

Does vomit wash out of wool or synthetic more easily? It also seems like
this might be a criterion for deciding on the fabric.

--
Bill Asher

[Donald Munro]

William Asher wrote:
> Does vomit wash out of wool or synthetic more easily? It also seems like
> this might be a criterion for deciding on the fabric.

I'm sure Ryan will perform the necessary experiments and get back to you.

[Michael Press]

In article
>,
Ryan Cousineau > wrote:

> In article >,
> Donald Munro > wrote:
>
> > wrote:
> > >> > and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
> > >> > at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
> >
> > Donald Munro wrote:
> > >> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.
> >
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > Zwei bieren, bitte. Danke.
> > >
> > > My thoughts on the cost structure
> >
> > Time to give some thought to the cost structure of the main enterprise.
> > When are the LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> (see I'm being nice and shouting)
> > equivalents of the below coming out and what will be on them ?:
> >
> > http://www.store-laf.org/cycling.html
>
> It's all good.
>
> http://www.portlandcyclewear.com/page/page/3163257.htm

I am in. Preference for wool, long sleeve, red. Red is
faster.

--
Michael Press

[William Asher]

Donald Munro wrote:

> William Asher wrote:
>> Does vomit wash out of wool or synthetic more easily? It also seems
>> like this might be a criterion for deciding on the fabric.
>
> I'm sure Ryan will perform the necessary experiments and get back to
> you.
>

Let's hope the experiment doesn't end in a tragedy like what happened to
Stumpy Joe Childs.

--
Bill Asher

[Kyle Legate]

Donald Munro wrote:
> wrote:
>> and it was always interesting that there was a beer tent/wagon. even
>> at a 10am Sunday morning crit.
>
> Ryan is about to start taking German lessons.

He should be fluent in a month.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Donald Munro > wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > Don is already in.
> >
> > We just need 9 more for the price break,
>
> Well the shipping would probably cost more than the jersey, but what the
> hell....

I actually checked: shipping appears to be $7 for US addresses, $8.08 to
Canada (which is almost certainly regular post).

I'll have to pester the proprietor to see if he can do something
annoying like ship an order of 12 jerseys to 12 separate addresses. It's
probably a pain for him, but I'll tell him it's for a good cause.

Mocking the fight against cancer is a good cause, right?

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[Kyle Legate]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> We just need 9 more for the price break,
>
I'll take one.

[Michael Press]

In article
>,
Ryan Cousineau > wrote:

> In article >,
> Donald Munro > wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > > Don is already in.
> > >
> > > We just need 9 more for the price break,
> >
> > Well the shipping would probably cost more than the jersey, but what the
> > hell....
>
> I actually checked: shipping appears to be $7 for US addresses, $8.08 to
> Canada (which is almost certainly regular post).
>
> I'll have to pester the proprietor to see if he can do something
> annoying like ship an order of 12 jerseys to 12 separate addresses. It's
> probably a pain for him, but I'll tell him it's for a good cause.
>
> Mocking the fight against cancer is a good cause, right?

I'll drink to that.

--
Michael Press

[[email protected]]

Kyle Legate wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > We just need 9 more for the price break,
> >
> I'll take one.

Me too.

It says you can mix styles to reach the quantity discount.

I would be curious about anybody's experience with these
jerseys and shrinkage after washing; some wool jerseys do
that so you have take it into account when sizing.

Or you can just never wash your jersey - that's the
old-school way.

Ben

[[email protected]]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> I'll have to pester the proprietor to see if he can do something
> annoying like ship an order of 12 jerseys to 12 separate addresses. It's
> probably a pain for him, but I'll tell him it's for a good cause.
>
> Mocking the fight against cancer is a good cause, right?

You know, it just occurred to me that you should offer to
license him to sell LIVEDRUNK jerseys. There's probably
literally (Paul Sherwen style) hundreds of cyclists out there
on the internets just waiting to buy such a thing if they knew
it existed.

Register the trademark now ... or at least claim a copyright.

Ben
Capitalist Pig

[Donald Munro]

wrote:
> Or you can just never wash your jersey - that's the
> old-school way.

Better make sure you don't perform any vomit experiments then.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article . com>,
" > wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > I'll have to pester the proprietor to see if he can do something
> > annoying like ship an order of 12 jerseys to 12 separate addresses. It's
> > probably a pain for him, but I'll tell him it's for a good cause.
> >
> > Mocking the fight against cancer is a good cause, right?
>
> You know, it just occurred to me that you should offer to
> license him to sell LIVEDRUNK jerseys. There's probably
> literally (Paul Sherwen style) hundreds of cyclists out there
> on the internets just waiting to buy such a thing if they knew
> it existed.
>
> Register the trademark now ... or at least claim a copyright.
>
> Ben
> Capitalist Pig

The already-famous "LIVEWRONG" is probably both more popular and (as
much as it pains me to admit) funnier:

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Wrong-Bracelet-Black/dp/B0007NEDEO

That, and your full Evil Cycling team kit would look mighty nice.
Probably need to wear AXO Blackball shoes and ride a Fetish Ankh.

Actually, maybe a pale bicycle would work better.

Back to your actual question, I'd certainly put it to any jersey maker
that if they wanted to license the LIVEDRUNK design, I'd be glad to do
so. What the trademark, registered or not, is actually worth might come
down to whether it could even be licenseable given that it owes almost
all of its IP and design DNA to parodying "LIVESTRONG" is a question for
the lawyers.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

[[email protected]]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

> The already-famous "LIVEWRONG" is probably both more popular and (as
> much as it pains me to admit) funnier:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Live-Wrong-Bracelet-Black/dp/B0007NEDEO
>
> That, and your full Evil Cycling team kit would look mighty nice.
> Probably need to wear AXO Blackball shoes and ride a Fetish Ankh.
> Actually, maybe a pale bicycle would work better.

Black Market Cycling in Norcal could pull that off.
Behold a pale rider, on a pale horse^H^H^H^H^H steed.

> Back to your actual question, I'd certainly put it to any jersey maker
> that if they wanted to license the LIVEDRUNK design, I'd be glad to do
> so. What the trademark, registered or not, is actually worth might come
> down to whether it could even be licenseable given that it owes almost
> all of its IP and design DNA to parodying "LIVESTRONG" is a question for
> the lawyers.

Hey, what the heck? "Armbandje livedrunk", at

http://www.zattevriendenshop.be/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=41

Ben
Sue them for everything they're worth;
settle for a year's supply of beer.

[Donald Munro]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> Back to your actual question, I'd certainly put it to any jersey maker
>> that if they wanted to license the LIVEDRUNK design, I'd be glad to do
>> so.

wrote:
> Sue them for everything they're worth;
> settle for a year's supply of beer.

He'd have to sue Haliburton to get a years supply of beer.

[Howard Kveck]

In article >,
Ryan Cousineau > wrote:

> That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> Don is already in.
>
> We just need 9 more for the price break,

I'd say that if we were to compare your drinking with mine, you'd probably
consider me to be a teetotaler (I know, I know, that can be cured!), so wearing a
LIVEDRUNK jersey would possibly be a bit odd for me. But why not? I'll go for one. I
do think that if they end up being the wool ones, I think that embroidered would be
preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
it.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Donald Munro]

Howard Kveck wrote:
> preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
> word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
> it.

An olive branch: LIVE<B>DRUNK</B> for peace ?

[RicodJour]

Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article >,
> Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
>
> > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > Don is already in.
> >
> > We just need 9 more for the price break,
>
> I'd say that if we were to compare your drinking with mine, you'd probably
> consider me to be a teetotaler (I know, I know, that can be cured!), so wearing a
> LIVEDRUNK jersey would possibly be a bit odd for me. But why not? I'll go for one. I
> do think that if they end up being the wool ones, I think that embroidered would be
> preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
> word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
> it.

Like this? http://tinyurl.com/vfkcm

There are a lot of teatotallers around here. They're a big hit. They
hit the bars, hit some Long Island Iced Teas, then hit some trees on
the way home.
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink590.html

R

[Michael Press]

In article
. com>
,
"RicodJour" > wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
> >
> > > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > > Don is already in.
> > >
> > > We just need 9 more for the price break,
> >
> > I'd say that if we were to compare your drinking with mine, you'd probably
> > consider me to be a teetotaler (I know, I know, that can be cured!), so wearing a
> > LIVEDRUNK jersey would possibly be a bit odd for me. But why not? I'll go for one. I
> > do think that if they end up being the wool ones, I think that embroidered would be
> > preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
> > word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
> > it.
>
> Like this? http://tinyurl.com/vfkcm
>
> There are a lot of teatotallers around here. They're a big hit. They
> hit the bars, hit some Long Island Iced Teas, then hit some trees on
> the way home.
> http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink590.html

And I thought the third rail was deranged.
<http://www.eellegi.com/name/Third-Rail%20Cocktail%20recipe.html>

--
Michael Press

[RicodJour]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> . com>
> ,
> "RicodJour" > wrote:
>
> > Howard Kveck wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > > > Don is already in.
> > > >
> > > > We just need 9 more for the price break,
> > >
> > > I'd say that if we were to compare your drinking with mine, you'd probably
> > > consider me to be a teetotaler (I know, I know, that can be cured!), so wearing a
> > > LIVEDRUNK jersey would possibly be a bit odd for me. But why not? I'll go for one. I
> > > do think that if they end up being the wool ones, I think that embroidered would be
> > > preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
> > > word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
> > > it.
> >
> > Like this? http://tinyurl.com/vfkcm
> >
> > There are a lot of teatotallers around here. They're a big hit. They
> > hit the bars, hit some Long Island Iced Teas, then hit some trees on
> > the way home.
> > http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink590.html
>
> And I thought the third rail was deranged.
> <http://www.eellegi.com/name/Third-Rail%20Cocktail%20recipe.html>

I never had one of that mix, but I don't think I'm missing too much.
The Third Rail I know of is a bit different.
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink2372.html The Long Island Iced Tea, if
prepared correctly, tastes just like iced tea. You don't taste the
alcohol at all, and it's loaded with it. A very tasty, slyly dangerous
and often sloppy drink.

R

[Michael Press]

In article
. com>
,
"RicodJour" > wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article
> > . com>
> > ,
> > "RicodJour" > wrote:
> >
> > > Howard Kveck wrote:
> > > > In article >,
> > > > Ryan Cousineau > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > That's one! Well, two. I'd definitely do one. And I think we'll pretend
> > > > > Don is already in.
> > > > >
> > > > > We just need 9 more for the price break,
> > > >
> > > > I'd say that if we were to compare your drinking with mine, you'd probably
> > > > consider me to be a teetotaler (I know, I know, that can be cured!), so wearing a
> > > > LIVEDRUNK jersey would possibly be a bit odd for me. But why not? I'll go for one. I
> > > > do think that if they end up being the wool ones, I think that embroidered would be
> > > > preferable, as it lasts longer (in general). And how about having more than just the
> > > > word "LIVEDRUNK" on them? A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in
> > > > it.
> > >
> > > Like this? http://tinyurl.com/vfkcm
> > >
> > > There are a lot of teatotallers around here. They're a big hit. They
> > > hit the bars, hit some Long Island Iced Teas, then hit some trees on
> > > the way home.
> > > http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink590.html
> >
> > And I thought the third rail was deranged.
> > <http://www.eellegi.com/name/Third-Rail%20Cocktail%20recipe.html>
>
> I never had one of that mix, but I don't think I'm missing too much.
> The Third Rail I know of is a bit different.
> http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink2372.html The Long Island Iced Tea, if
> prepared correctly, tastes just like iced tea. You don't taste the
> alcohol at all, and it's loaded with it. A very tasty, slyly dangerous
> and often sloppy drink.

I never had the LIIT. That it tastes innocuous bears
investigation. I shall undertake a serious research
project.

What you reference is _not_ the Third Rail Cocktail.
TRC is one jigger each rum, Calvados, and brandy with a
dash of Pernod. No mistaking the taste of it for
anything non-lethal.

Next up: Glögg.

--
Michael Press

[Howard Kveck]

In article . com>,
"RicodJour" > wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:

> > A logo, perhaps, such as a martini glass with an olive in it.
>
> Like this? http://tinyurl.com/vfkcm

Well, that's busier than what I was thinking. The design that I was thinking is
pretty minimal. I'll round something up this weekend.

> There are a lot of teatotallers around here. They're a big hit. They
> hit the bars, hit some Long Island Iced Teas, then hit some trees on
> the way home.
> http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink590.html

heh...

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?