Brookes leather saddle failure!

[Baker Mann]

I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
My oldest saddle is still servicable.

But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
suddenly and catastrophically recently.

http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html

I tried finding either a company address or a web
site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
I need to write or email the company directly with
my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
the saddle is made in England (so stamped).

Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
in advance.

[[email protected]]

Baker Mann wrote:
> Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
> in advance.

korrect spelling is your frend

http://www.brookssaddles.com/

best wishes
james

[mark]

Baker Mann wrote:
> I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
> saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
> My oldest saddle is still servicable.
>
> But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
> ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
> suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
> http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html
>
> I tried finding either a company address or a web
> site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
> all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
> I need to write or email the company directly with
> my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
> the saddle is made in England (so stamped).
>
> Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
> in advance.
>
>
www.brooksengland.com. You'll have better luck if you spell it
correctly, without the "e".
mark

[what does THIS button do?]

Baker Mann wrote:
> I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
> saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
> My oldest saddle is still servicable.
>
> But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
> ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
> suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
> http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html
>
> I tried finding either a company address or a web
> site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
> all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
> I need to write or email the company directly with
> my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
> the saddle is made in England (so stamped).
>
> Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
> in advance.

Curious. I have a Brooks of about the same vintage and it too
fractured a rail on the front left side of the seatpost clamp.

However, I don't blame Brooks, i blame the crappy seatpost clamp*.

I had a buddy weld it back together ... and i'm now reminded that maybe
i shoudl put it back on the bike.

..max
*and certainly not my fat*ss.

[Fritz]

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:26:21 -0500, (Baker
Mann) wrote:

>I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
>saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
>My oldest saddle is still servicable.
>
>But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
>ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
>suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
>http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html
>
>I tried finding either a company address or a web
>site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
>all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
>I need to write or email the company directly with
>my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
>the saddle is made in England (so stamped).
>
>Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
>in advance.
>


My B17 brooks was 10 years old and broke that same way. I bought a
new seat frame for 20 bucks and installed it with new hand hammered
copper rivets I bought at the local hardware store for .22 cents each.

I bought the frame from
http://www.wallbike.com/index.php

Maybe they can help you.

[Baker Mann]

In article >,
says...
>
>I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
>saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.

Thanks to you all for correcting my spelling.
I had seen it spelled both ways and don't know
why my reading skills suddenly failed me because
the saddle is clearly labeled BROOKS.

[Art Harris]

Baker Mann wrote:
> But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
> ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
> suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
> http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html

Are those Ti rails? I'd stick to CrMo.

Art Harris

[Baker Mann]

In article m>,
says...

>Are those Ti rails? I'd stick to CrMo.

I don't think they're either. Look to me
like ordinary chrome plated steel. I am
guessing it's too brittle a grade.

THANKS TO ALL who commented. I have now
found the actual Brooks site thanks to
the reference from Mark (www.brooksengland.com).

I have sent them an email, and mentioned
that others have had this same problem. I'll
post back to this thread any response I receive
from them, and THANK YOU AGAIN.

I knew I could count on fellow bike enthusiasts
to come through with a quick fix!

Imagine something like this happening if you're
on a long-distance tour, as I quite frequently
have been. I've still got a perfectly serviceable
Brooks Professional saddle purchased about 1974,
over thirty years ago. That saddle has actually
been around the world - literally - including
riding the English countryside where it came from.

[Stephen Harding]

Baker Mann wrote:

> I have sent them an email, and mentioned
> that others have had this same problem. I'll
> post back to this thread any response I receive
> from them, and THANK YOU AGAIN.

Please do keep us informed on this.

Three of my four bikes have Brooks' on them of one sort
or another so I'd like to know just how responsive the
company is to what appears to be a common defect.

I think Brooks was "reconstituted" anew as a company not
too long ago so I'm curious to know how the new
management handles this sort of thing.


SMH

[just another biker]

I've broken a couple in alot of years....both chrome. Shipped one to
England to Tony Colgrave for repair. Nice chap with some connections at
least for part with Brooks, and has repaired numerous leather saddles
for many. He confirmed what I'd suspected of hydrogen embrittlement,
which is a byproduct of chroming. Many blame it on sharp edges on the
seatpost clamp or having the seat pushed all the way back. I've tried
filing the clamps, but still broke the rails. I've used several makes
of leather saddles, but only the Brooks had chrome rails, and only the
chrome ones have broken. I think it's just the nature of the beast.
Still riding a couple with chrome rails with no problems, but buy the
black painted ones if I have a choice, since riding home standing can
be a chore.....though great for conversation.


Baker Mann wrote:
> I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
> saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
> My oldest saddle is still servicable.
>
> But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
> ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
> suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
> http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html
>
> I tried finding either a company address or a web
> site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
> all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
> I need to write or email the company directly with
> my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
> the saddle is made in England (so stamped).
>
> Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
> in advance.

[Kirby]

see Chris Juden's comments at
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3822

Letter from Central America - 2000.07

I think readers might be interested to hear something of the problems
that can beset long-distance cycletourists and the ingenious ways they
solve them. Broken Brooks saddle rails (a regrettably common failing of
this otherwise excellent product) prompted Chad Hockey to phone me from
Mexico last November. I suggested he call Sturmey-Archer Customer
Service Department and asked him to let me know what happened:

"... I was just about to do a Mr Angry impersonation, but they
were so helpful and courteous that I was completely disarmed. As soon
as they heard my story they immediately and spontaneously offered to
send me a replacement at no cost and despatched it the next day by
airmail. A month later it still hasn't arrived, but that's no fault
of Sturmey-Archer who were very friendly and efficient.

When I asked if I was likely to experience the same problem with a
new saddle a further 10 months down the road, in Patagonia or the
Andes, Mr Wilkinson said he'd send an enamelled saddle, saying these
are more trustworthy than those with chromed rails. This backs up what
you told me about chrome-plating and also indicates that they are aware
of the problem. The main reason for me choosing a Brooks saddle was the
belief that if I looked after it I'd have a 'saddle for life'.
Had I known it was likely to fail so soon I'm not sure I'd have
bought a Brooks, especially considering the need for maintenance and
the breaking in period.

As for my broken saddle, one of the pleasures of Mexico is the
abundance of tradesmen, who seem to pride themselves in making 'lost
causes' functional again. For one US dollar I had the broken rail
welded - and the same welder built me an identical copy, in steel, of
my broken low-rider carrier for only $3! For another dollar I had a can
of paint and some thin copper tubing to protect the rails. Time will
tell whether this bodging is roadworthy."
Chad Hockey - San Miguel de Allende, 14/12/99

Broken Brooks - 1998.01

I purchased a B17 Narrow Brooks saddle from the CTC about two years
since. I was most surprised the other day when the rail sheared off
just behind the adjuster. Do you think I have any grounds for
complaint, the saddle looks like new?
Gordon Hepworth - Withernsea, East Yorks

Yes you certainly have! From the frequency I hear about it, broken
saddle rails must be one of the most common component failures. And
it's nearly always a Brooks: which is remarkable when you consider
how few bicycles have a leather saddle these days.
Brooks is part of Sturmey Archer, so send it back to them at Triumph
Road, Nottingham NG7 2GL (tel: 0115 942 0800). They're normally very
good about replacing broken parts - so long as the leather top is in
good condition. Ask for painted rails rather than chrome-plated,
they're a bit more reliable.
Chris Juden

[[email protected]]

Baker Mann wrote:
> I have been riding on Brookes Professional leather
> saddles for nearly fifty years without a problem.
> My oldest saddle is still servicable.
>
> But my newest saddle, purchased about ten years
> ago, but not having seen very many miles yet, failed
> suddenly and catastrophically recently.
>
> http://home.windstream.net/jaxart/Temporary/brookes.html
>
> I tried finding either a company address or a web
> site for "Brookes" but without success. I can find
> all sorts of bicycle shops that sell Brookes, but
> I need to write or email the company directly with
> my complaint.They are an English company, or at least
> the saddle is made in England (so stamped).
>
> Anyone know where I can find the company? Thanks
> in advance.

I think this just demonstartes the process of evolution at its finest.

Those old cows, of 50 and 60 years ago, could never have produced
leather that would be strong enough to break steel rails.

:-)

Lewis.

*****

[Stephen Harding]

just another biker wrote:

> Still riding a couple with chrome rails with no problems, but buy the
> black painted ones if I have a choice, since riding home standing can
> be a chore.....though great for conversation.

This is good to know!

All three of my Brooks' (in three different models) came with black
rails, so perhaps I'm OK.


SMH

[[email protected]]

Baker Mann wrote:
> In article m>,
> says...
>
> >Are those Ti rails? I'd stick to CrMo.
>
> I don't think they're either. Look to me
> like ordinary chrome plated steel. I am
> guessing it's too brittle a grade.
>
> THANKS TO ALL who commented. I have now
> found the actual Brooks site thanks to
> the reference from Mark (www.brooksengland.com).
>
> I have sent them an email, and mentioned
> that others have had this same problem. I'll
> post back to this thread any response I receive
> from them, and THANK YOU AGAIN.

Speaking of getting in contact with the Brooks's people...

I've twice now tried sending email through their website re my local
bike shop never having seen them outside of magazines before and
wanting to carry them and do they have an Asian distributor etc... with
nary an indication that it has gone anywhere other than the bit bucket.

-M

[mark]

Stephen Harding wrote:
>
> Three of my four bikes have Brooks' on them of one sort
> or another so I'd like to know just how responsive the
> company is to what appears to be a common defect.
>
> I think Brooks was "reconstituted" anew as a company not
> too long ago so I'm curious to know how the new
> management handles this sort of thing.
>
>
> SMH

Brooks, together with Sturmey Archer, folded in early 2001. The
company's assets were purchased by (I think) Selle Italia, who have
reconstituted the company with an increased emphasis on high quality
saddles.

mark

[Baker Mann]

In article m>,
says...

>I've twice now tried sending email through their website

I sent messages to two of the options on their
web site: Claim Form and Information.

I've yet to receive a reply to my emails.

If and when I do hear from them, I'll post
the reply to this thread.

[Baker Mann]

In article >,
says...

>I've yet to receive a reply to my emails.
>
>If and when I do hear from them, I'll post
>the reply to this thread.

It took about a week, but here is the reply
I received, plus my response to it:
================================================== ===================
Dear Mr _____________

Thank you for your e-mail.

Brooks warranty covers two years from date of manufacture, or two years from
purchase date (if supported by a valid sales receipt). Unfortunately, your
saddle is 10 years old and so does not qualify under either of these criteria.

It is possible for you to return the saddle here to the UK for repair.
However, this would be a chargeable service to the amount of £25 (GBP), or 35
Euros. As Brooks does not have a credit card facility, payment would need to
be made by cheque, or bank transfer (in either of these two currencies only).

Best Regards, Steven Green (office manager, Brooks England)
================================================== =======================
My subsequent reply:

Dear Mr. Green,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm sorry to hear that Brooks does not stand behind their
products more firmly. It should be obvious that this failure
is NOT a result of abusive treatment. In fact I have documentary
evidence now - from others who have corresponded with me
via bicycling forums - that the breakage of the rails has been a
common problem with Brooks saddles of that design.

I trust that the change to titanium rails has been a solution
that current purchasers benefit from.

[Fritz]

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:55:35 -0500, (Baker
Mann) wrote:

>In article >,
>says...
>
>>I've yet to receive a reply to my emails.
>>
>>If and when I do hear from them, I'll post
>>the reply to this thread.
>
>It took about a week, but here is the reply
>I received, plus my response to it:
>================================================== ===================
>Dear Mr _____________
>
>Thank you for your e-mail.
>
>Brooks warranty covers two years from date of manufacture, or two years from
>purchase date (if supported by a valid sales receipt). Unfortunately, your
>saddle is 10 years old and so does not qualify under either of these criteria.
>
>It is possible for you to return the saddle here to the UK for repair.
>However, this would be a chargeable service to the amount of £25 (GBP), or 35
>Euros. As Brooks does not have a credit card facility, payment would need to
>be made by cheque, or bank transfer (in either of these two currencies only).
>
>Best Regards, Steven Green (office manager, Brooks England)
>================================================== =======================
>My subsequent reply:
>
>Dear Mr. Green,
>
>Thank you for your reply.
>
>I'm sorry to hear that Brooks does not stand behind their
>products more firmly. It should be obvious that this failure
>is NOT a result of abusive treatment. In fact I have documentary
>evidence now - from others who have corresponded with me
>via bicycling forums - that the breakage of the rails has been a
>common problem with Brooks saddles of that design.
>
>I trust that the change to titanium rails has been a solution
>that current purchasers benefit from.


Wow. Just buy yourself a new saddle. Expecting a company to cough
up new merchandise after 10 years of use is simply ridiculous.