Rear wheel building questions

[Antti Salonen]

I have a self-built rear wheel with Mavic CXP33 rim, 32 DT 14/15/14G
spokes and a modern Campagnolo Chorus hub. The wheel has about 13
months or 6500 kilometres on it. It was the first wheel I ever built,
and I built it three-cross on the right and radial on the left. It's
been mostly troublefree, but I've noticed that the left-side spokes have
gradually lost some of their tension. Not enough to make it unrideable,
but I've had to tighten the left-side spokes twice because of the tight
clearance of the break pads.

When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial
left spokes, as recommended by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind
of thread lock either. I think I tensioned the wheel to the verge of
tacoing, as described in the Book, but it is possible that my
observations while tensioning the wheel were not correct due to
inexperience. I don't have a tensiometer so I can't give any absolute
values.

I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening
left-side spokes for good:

1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new
nipples and thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner
spokes. However, it's been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a
different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead to hub flange
failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished
rear wheel, where spoke tension is very low?

Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building
a reliable wheel with these components should be a no-brainer.

-as

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Antti-<< I have a self-built rear wheel with Mavic CXP33 rim, 32 DT 14/15/14G
spokes and a modern Campagnolo Chorus hub. The wheel has about 13
months or 6500 kilometres on it. It was the first wheel I ever built,
and I built it three-cross on the right and radial on the left. It's
been mostly troublefree, but I've noticed that the left-side spokes have
gradually lost some of their tension. Not enough to make it unrideable,
but I've had to tighten the left-side spokes twice because of the tight
clearance of the break pads. >><BR><BR>

It was outta dish, pulled to the right? If the left side 'lost tension', it was
because the right wasn't tensioned enough..It doesn't just change dish, having
all the left side get loose.


<< When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial
left spokes, as recommended by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind
of thread lock either. >><BR><BR>

The key to keeping the left side spokes from looening is ensuring the right
side are tensioned properly.
No need to threadlock anything...AND should lube all the nipps, threads.


<< I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening
left-side spokes for good:

1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new
nipples and thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner
spokes. However, it's been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a
different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead to hub flange
failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished
rear wheel, where spoke tension is very low?

Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building
a reliable wheel with these components should be a no-brainer. >><BR><BR>


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Antti-<< 1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using
new
nipples and thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner
spokes. However, it's been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a
different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead to hub flange
failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished
rear wheel, where spoke tension is very low?

Retension the wheel, make the right side proper, with the rim round, dished,
true and stress relieved. radial does nothin but it is what it is....I wouldn't
relace it, your warranty is already history. I think the tension of the right
wasn't proper, not spoke gauge or threadlock stuff...


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[David Ornee]

"Antti Salonen" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have a self-built rear wheel with Mavic CXP33 rim, 32 DT 14/15/14G
> spokes and a modern Campagnolo Chorus hub. The wheel has about 13
> months or 6500 kilometres on it. It was the first wheel I ever built,
> and I built it three-cross on the right and radial on the left. It's
> been mostly troublefree, but I've noticed that the left-side spokes have
> gradually lost some of their tension. Not enough to make it unrideable,
> but I've had to tighten the left-side spokes twice because of the tight
> clearance of the break pads.
>
> When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial
> left spokes, as recommended by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind
> of thread lock either. I think I tensioned the wheel to the verge of
> tacoing, as described in the Book, but it is possible that my
> observations while tensioning the wheel were not correct due to
> inexperience. I don't have a tensiometer so I can't give any absolute
> values.
>
> I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening
> left-side spokes for good:
>
> 1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new
> nipples and thread lock.
>
> 2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner
> spokes. However, it's been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a
> different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead to hub flange
> failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished
> rear wheel, where spoke tension is very low?
>
> Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building
> a reliable wheel with these components should be a no-brainer.
>
> -as
Read The Book again. I agree with most of what Sheldon Brown suggest, but I
don't agree with radial spoking or omitting lubrication on any spokes or
nipples.
You may have had residual spoke wind-up, especially due to the lack of
lubrication.
Spokes will also settle towards their straight line alignment. There is a
section of The Book that demonstrates methods of spoke alignment.

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

[Antti Salonen]

David Ornee > wrote:

> Read The Book again. I agree with most of what Sheldon Brown suggest, but I
> don't agree with radial spoking or omitting lubrication on any spokes or
> nipples.
> You may have had residual spoke wind-up, especially due to the lack of
> lubrication.

I very much doubt that. I carefully lubricated the drive-side
three-cross spokes and nipples, just not the radial left-side nipples.
The tension on the left side was low and the friction in the threads
lower than usual because of the radial spoking. There was very little
friction when I turned the nipples while building the wheel, and I'm
confident I would've felt the 1.8 mm spokes winding up, as it's really
quite apparent.

I think the overall tension of the wheel was simply too low. Thanks for
replies.

-as