French bicycles and screw threads

[Peter Amey]

Dear urc,

I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).

If I manage to remove it (a Park CT-3 tool seems a possibility), does
anyone know if the threads underneath are likely to be "standard" so
that I can fit something else?

The decision affects whether I re-rim the wheel or replace it. I would
prefer the former.

If it makes a difference, I am fairly sure the bike was built for the
British market, not imported privately. All advice (other than "it's
not worth the effort" - I already know that and don't care! - gratefully
received).

TIA


Peter

--
www.amey.org.uk

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:45:45 +0000, Peter Amey >
wrote:

>Dear urc,
>
>I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
>"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
>freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
>any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
>
>If I manage to remove it (a Park CT-3 tool seems a possibility), does
>anyone know if the threads underneath are likely to be "standard" so
>that I can fit something else?
>
>The decision affects whether I re-rim the wheel or replace it. I would
>prefer the former.
>
>If it makes a difference, I am fairly sure the bike was built for the
>British market, not imported privately. All advice (other than "it's
>not worth the effort" - I already know that and don't care! - gratefully
>received).
>
>TIA


You won't know until you have it off. Peugeot in the late 70's/early
80's were changing from metric to english threading systems.

You can get a hint by examining the pedal threads. If the cycle has
metric pedal threads then it is likely to also have them eveywhere.
The cranks may be marked "14x1.25" or "BSC".

If you get the freewheel off and a standard english one threads on, it
is english. If not, it's not.

Metric cycle parts are still available from specialist cycle supliers,
and frequently on ebay.

[Gwyn Oakley]

In message >
wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:45:45 +0000, Peter Amey >
> wrote:
>
> >Dear urc,
> >
> >I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
> >"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
> >freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
> >any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
> >
> >If I manage to remove it (a Park CT-3 tool seems a possibility), does
> >anyone know if the threads underneath are likely to be "standard" so
> >that I can fit something else?
> >
> >The decision affects whether I re-rim the wheel or replace it. I would
> >prefer the former.
> >
> >If it makes a difference, I am fairly sure the bike was built for the
> >British market, not imported privately. All advice (other than "it's
> >not worth the effort" - I already know that and don't care! - gratefully
> >received).
> >
> >TIA
>
>
> You won't know until you have it off. Peugeot in the late 70's/early
> 80's were changing from metric to english threading systems.
>
> You can get a hint by examining the pedal threads. If the cycle has
> metric pedal threads then it is likely to also have them eveywhere.
> The cranks may be marked "14x1.25" or "BSC".
>
> If you get the freewheel off and a standard english one threads on, it
> is english. If not, it's not.
>
> Metric cycle parts are still available from specialist cycle supliers,
> and frequently on ebay.


The other possibility is that it is a Maillard helicomatic which are a
bit special and now I think quite rare.

Gwyn


--
Gwyn

[[email protected]]

Peter Amey wrote:
> Dear urc,
>
> I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
> "10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made).

No help to your question but if you are wanting to date the bike this
photo may be worth looking at. My brother beside our two Peugot 10
speed tourers in 1978. The bikes were both bought in I think 1976 or 77
from Dales Cycles in Glasgow in the days when the shop was in Maryhill
Rd. The obvious lack of cycling clothing, panniers etc didn't spoil our
enjoyment of this 1978 tour of the highlands. The bike had a really
nice handling frame, I think Mavic centrepull brakes, and a 52/40 and
14/28 gear setup.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24192247@N00/356740657/

Iain

[Peter Amey]

mb wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:45:45 +0000, Peter Amey wrote:
>
>
>>Dear urc,
>>
>>I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
>>"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
>>freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
>>any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
>>
>
>
> Does it look like this:
> http://www.kichline.com/chuck/bikes/bits/helicomatic.jpg
>
> If so, then you need one of these:
> http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1917
>

No, definitely a freewheel, not a heliomatic.

Looking good so far, the pedals are standard as are the crank puller
threads. So it should be fine if I can find the right freewheel tool at
the LBS's workshop.

Thanks for all the guidance.

Peter

--
www.amey.org.uk

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Gwyn Oakley
says...
<snip>
> The other possibility is that it is a Maillard helicomatic which are a
> bit special and now I think quite rare.
>
Helicomatic used a lockring and doesn't have anywhere to insert an
extractor.

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Peter Amey
says...
> Dear urc,
>
> I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
> "10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
> freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
> any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
>
You probably want this type:

http://biketoolsetc.com/Product_Images/VR-RL40500.jpg

[Simon D]

formulated on Sunday :
> Peter Amey wrote:
> My brother beside our two Peugot 10
> speed tourers in 1978. The bikes were both bought in I think 1976 or 77
> from Dales Cycles in Glasgow in the days when the shop was in Maryhill
> Rd. The obvious lack of cycling clothing, panniers etc didn't spoil our
> enjoyment of this 1978 tour of the highlands. The bike had a really
> nice handling frame, I think Mavic centrepull brakes, and a 52/40 and
> 14/28 gear setup.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24192247@N00/356740657/
>

Either most unusual Peugeots or an inverted image! :oÞ

--
Simon

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Simon D
says...
> formulated on Sunday :
> > Peter Amey wrote:
> > My brother beside our two Peugot 10
> > speed tourers in 1978. The bikes were both bought in I think 1976 or 77
> > from Dales Cycles in Glasgow in the days when the shop was in Maryhill
> > Rd. The obvious lack of cycling clothing, panniers etc didn't spoil our
> > enjoyment of this 1978 tour of the highlands. The bike had a really
> > nice handling frame, I think Mavic centrepull brakes, and a 52/40 and
> > 14/28 gear setup.
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/24192247@N00/356740657/
> >
>
> Either most unusual Peugeots or an inverted image! :oÞ
>
>
It gives a whole new meaning to "driving on the other side".

[Phil Cook]

Peter Amey wrote:

>mb wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:45:45 +0000, Peter Amey wrote:

>>>I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
>>>"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
>>>freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
>>>any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).

>> Does it look like this:
>> http://www.kichline.com/chuck/bikes/bits/helicomatic.jpg
>>
>No, definitely a freewheel, not a heliomatic.

Strictly speaking helicomatic is a freewheel, it just has a different
mounting thread and needs a lockring to hold it on.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

[Naqerj]

Peter Amey wrote:
> Dear urc,
>
> I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
> "10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
> freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
> any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
>

A method that often works with odd-sized splines is to find a large nut
that will wedge into the spline - push it halfway in and use a spanner
on the protruding half.

--
Andrew

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Phil Cook
says...
> Peter Amey wrote:
>
> >mb wrote:
> >> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:45:45 +0000, Peter Amey wrote:
>
> >>>I am doing a mini-restore on, what we would have a called a Peugot
> >>>"10-speed racer" back in the 80s (when I would guess it was made). The
> >>>freewheel is a Maillard with a set of removal splines that don't match
> >>>any tool I own (closest is a Shimano cassette bottom bracket tool).
>
> >> Does it look like this:
> >> http://www.kichline.com/chuck/bikes/bits/helicomatic.jpg
> >>
> >No, definitely a freewheel, not a heliomatic.
>
> Strictly speaking helicomatic is a freewheel, it just has a different
> mounting thread and needs a lockring to hold it on.
>
It was quite a good idea - bearings spaced like a freehub, separate
easily changed freewheel mechanism - let down I think by the cost of
machining the helical grooves.

[ian henden]

"Simon D" > wrote in message
...
> formulated on Sunday :
>> Peter Amey wrote:
>> My brother beside our two Peugot 10
>> speed tourers in 1978. The bikes were both bought in I think 1976 or 77
>> from Dales Cycles in Glasgow in the days when the shop was in Maryhill
>> Rd. The obvious lack of cycling clothing, panniers etc didn't spoil our
>> enjoyment of this 1978 tour of the highlands. The bike had a really
>> nice handling frame, I think Mavic centrepull brakes, and a 52/40 and
>> 14/28 gear setup.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24192247@N00/356740657/
>>
>
> Either most unusual Peugeots or an inverted image! :oÞ

Imports. Left hand drive, innit!!

:o)

[James Thomson]

> a écrit:

> If you get the freewheel off and a standard english one threads
> on, it is english. If not, it's not.

Careful. A British freewheel will thread onto a French threaded hub, but
risks stripping under load. A French freewheel won't thread onto a British
hub.

James Thomson

[James Thomson]

"Rob Morley" > a écrit:

> It was quite a good idea - bearings spaced like a freehub, separate
> easily changed freewheel mechanism - let down I think by the cost of
> machining the helical grooves.

Mine died very quickly. They had undersized bearings: the cones didn't last,
and replacements were hard to find.

James Thomson

[John B]

James Thomson wrote:
> "Rob Morley" > a écrit:
>
>> It was quite a good idea - bearings spaced like a freehub, separate
>> easily changed freewheel mechanism - let down I think by the cost of
>> machining the helical grooves.
>
> Mine died very quickly. They had undersized bearings: the cones didn't last,
> and replacements were hard to find.

I'm still running Helicomatic on one of my hacks. It was on a bike used
to tour Sardinia nigh on 20 years ago and its still OK.

I agree about replacements. It took me a long time to hunt down one of
the removal tools when I lost the original.

John B

[[email protected]]

Simon D wrote:

>
> Either most unusual Peugeots or an inverted image! :oÞ

Oops. I had noticed that in one of the other photos in the batch
(scanned from old slides) both the subjects were wearing their watches
on the right wrist.
Iain

[James Thomson]

"John B" > a écrit:

> I'm still running Helicomatic on one of my hacks. It was on a bike
> used to tour Sardinia nigh on 20 years ago and its still OK.

Has it seen much hard mileage otherwise?

I was going through rear cones every six months or so on my daily commute,
and I know that my experience wasn't unusual.

James Thomson

[John B]

James Thomson wrote:
> "John B" > a écrit:
>
>> I'm still running Helicomatic on one of my hacks. It was on a bike
>> used to tour Sardinia nigh on 20 years ago and its still OK.
>
> Has it seen much hard mileage otherwise?

Not that heavy. Its had a couple of other tours - including one to the
Pyrannean foothills.
Use does get shared with other bikes, but it has probably had 10-15,000
miles use so far.

> I was going through rear cones every six months or so on my daily commute,
> and I know that my experience wasn't unusual.

I think I've been lucky.
The hub/block is presently in use on a hack [1] my daughter is using
regularly on the hill between Canterbury and the Uni of Kent.

[1] Soon to be replaced by another bike, as the derailleur hanger has
been twisted :-(

John B

[Rob Morley]

In article >, John B
says...
<snip>
> [1] Soon to be replaced by another bike, as the derailleur hanger has
> been twisted :-(
>
So twist it back - they don't easily fall off. Or you can cut it off
and use a bolt-on hanger.

[Mark Thompson]

>> [1] Soon to be replaced by another bike, as the derailleur hanger has
>> been twisted :-(
>>
> So twist it back - they don't easily fall off. Or you can cut it off
> and use a bolt-on hanger.

Shhh, it was an excuse, not a reason ;)

[John B]

Mark Thompson wrote:

> >> [1] Soon to be replaced by another bike, as the derailleur hanger has
> >> been twisted :-(
> >>
> > So twist it back - they don't easily fall off. Or you can cut it off
> > and use a bolt-on hanger.
>
> Shhh, it was an excuse, not a reason ;)

LOL
Not really in this case though.
The hack is going to be replaced with an existing bike.

John B

[John B]

Rob Morley wrote:

> In article >, John B
> says...
> <snip>
> > [1] Soon to be replaced by another bike, as the derailleur hanger has
> > been twisted :-(
> >
> So twist it back - they don't easily fall off. Or you can cut it off
> and use a bolt-on hanger.

I may well do that, but it would need to be brought back home first, hence
the need for the replacement.
However it is a very old frame and there are several other problems with it
:-(

John B