rear hub suggestions for Cannondale touring bike?

[David Johnston]

I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new
wheel for it. I use it mainly for commuting and getting around town,
almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and usually for much
less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the
future. I think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure
about hubs. I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear
dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
manual?).

So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9
speed, under $100.

-David

[James Thomson]

"David Johnston" > wrote:

> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need
> to build a new wheel for it. I use it mainly for commuting
> and getting around town, almost never for more than 25
> miles in a day and usually for much less. I want to keep
> the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I think
> I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about
> hubs. I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear
> dropout (why didn't they include that information in the
> owner's manual?).

This is simple to measure. Remove the rear wheel, and measure between the
dropout faces with a ruler. To save you the trouble, it's 135mm.

> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are:
> 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.

Shimano XT, from US$40.

James Thomson

[Ted Bennett]

> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new
> wheel for it. I use it mainly for commuting and getting around town,
> almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and usually for much
> less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the
> future. I think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure
> about hubs. I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear
> dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).
>
> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9
> speed, under $100.
>
> -David

Got a ruler? Measure the distance between the inner faces of the
dropouts, or the distance between the outer faces of the hub's locknuts.
It will be either 130 or 135 millimeters.

Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

[B]

> I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear
>dropout

What type of hubs were on before.
You need to know the spacing before you get a hub.
B

(remove clothes to reply)

[Chalo]

(David Johnston) wrote:

> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9
> speed, under $100.

That bike has 135mm dropout spacing, so any 36h MTB hub should fit and
most of them will be sturdy enough to do the job.

Sunrace JuJu hubs have sealed cartridge bearings and are simple,
reliable and inexpensive. Better IMO than any Shimano hub at any
price. They have no brand-name prestige, though, if that's important
to you.

http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/hubs/hubs.html

Cambria Bicycle Outfitters has nice Real Design rear hubs on sale
cheap, though that manufacturer is no longer in business.

Chalo Colina

[Chalo]

Ted Bennett > wrote:

> Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.

Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, more expensive than
quarters but not as well made, in league with Satan.

Shimano parts are what you got with your bike, or what you scavanged
for free, or what you accepted out of desperation because you were in
the middle of a tour, but not something you seek out. Have a little
dignity already.

Buying Shimano parts new, on purpose, is for folks who buy all their
clothing at Old Navy Sweatshop and eat all their meals at corporate
chain restaurants. It shows a grave lack of discrimination and
creativity, works to stamp out variety and excellence, and isn't even
cheaper than the real thing.

Lest you misunderstand me, Campy is a cop-out, too. It's Macintosh as
compared to Windows, Michelob as compared to Budweiser-- still lame
and missing the point.

There's a world of wondrous variety out there if you only bother to
look.

Chalo Colina



open source, microbrews, and cottage industry bike parts, dammit!

[Pete Grey]

If you want worry-free performance, consider a Phil hub.
I've ridden my Phil equipped tourer to some obscure places, and a large
number of miles over the past 10 years. Never had a failure, or even a
hiccup from the hubs/bearings.

They don't fit your price range thou', that's the downside, but if you plan
on having the bike for a long time...

-pete

"David Johnston" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new
> wheel for it. I use it mainly for commuting and getting around town,
> almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and usually for much
> less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the
> future. I think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure
> about hubs. I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear
> dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).
>
> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9
> speed, under $100.
>
> -David

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

David-<< So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9
speed, under $100. >><BR><BR>

XT if 135mm
ultegra if 130mm-assuming shimano-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

chump-<< Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.

Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, more expensive than
quarters but not as well made, in league with Satan. >><BR><BR>

Not a fan of shimano BUT at least describe their hubs accurately-replacable,
loose ball bearings...



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Chalo]

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> chump-<< Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.
>
> Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, more expensive than
> quarters but not as well made, in league with Satan. >><BR><BR>
>
> Not a fan of shimano BUT at least describe their hubs accurately-replacable,
> loose ball bearings...

A ball bearing is an inner race, and outer race and a complement of
balls. Are you suggesting that Shimano hubs allow you to replace all
these things?

Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with
non-replaceable chainrings--

-- oh yeah, Shimano makes those, too.

Chalo Colina

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

chump-<< A ball bearing is an inner race, and outer race and a complement of
balls. Are you suggesting that Shimano hubs allow you to replace all
these things? >><BR><BR>

No a ball bearing is a ...ball bearing...the other stuff are cones and cups.
You said-"<< Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, >><BR><BR>

They have replaceable bearings, not cups, replaceable cones.

<< Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with
non-replaceable chainrings-- >><BR><BR>

'Outer races' are called 'cones' and these are replaceable also...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Chalo]

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> They have replaceable bearings, not cups, replaceable cones.
>
> << Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with
> non-replaceable chainrings-- >><BR><BR>
>
> 'Outer races' are called 'cones' and these are replaceable also...

"Outer" bearing races are the ones which are larger in diameter. They
are part of the bearing. On Shimano hubs, they can't be replaced.
Unless you replace both races of a bearing, you haven't replaced the
bearing now, have you? It's like deciding that your shoes are
uncomfortable and just changing the left one.

I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed.

I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
it.

Chalo Colina

[Phil Brown]

>I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
>on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
>the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
>getting killed.
>
>I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
>If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
>it.

Get over yourself, Chumpy. Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even a
badly damaged race and cone will go for many, many miles. And even the worst
case-a broken axle-isn't so bad on a bike because the axles are clamped at both
ends. Any bike machanic has stories about removing a wheel that turned fine
only to have the axle come apart when he did. And if you demand completely
replaceable cup and cone bearings Campy is for you.
Phil Brown

[Peter Cole]

"Chalo" > wrote in message
. ..
> (Phil Brown) wrote:
>
> That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear
> issue in a hub, and Shimano's hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that
> issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole wheel a
> finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing
> lasts forever.

I guess the real question is what the service life of a typical Shimano outer
race actually is. I have not failed one yet, but then I've only reached
perhaps a few 10's of thousands of miles on my highest mileage hubs. Wheel
rims are generally more expensive than hubs (at least when you use the typical
Shimano/Mavic combo). We all accept the finite life of rims, which seems to be
far shorter than the finite life of Shimano hubs. What's the big deal?

Anybody have any anecdotal reports of Shimano hub failures/mileage?

> A hole poked in a solid wooden hub will go for many miles, too. But
> ball bearings are there for a reason, and other machines that are
> designed to be repaired use bearings that can be replaced.
>
> Shimano could just as easily do the same, but instead they opt for
> disposability without the cost savings usually associated therewith.

Shimano is doing something to lower costs. I recently bought a *set* of wheels
with LX hubs (very nice hubs), CR18 rims and DT spokes for $75. I'm not
expecting to pass those hubs down to my grandchildren. How many miles/years do
I need to get before I've gotten my money's worth? Even at the typical
Ultegra/OpenPro road wheelset price point (~$200), serviceability starts
becoming a non-issue in that it's just cheaper to buy a whole new wheel or
set. Most high-end wheels are sold to creatures of fashion, who have a much
shorter style half-life, so durability/serviceability isn't an issue either.
That leaves a very small segment who would actually want to ride more than a
few 10K miles on a hub.

>

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

chump-<< "Outer" bearing races are the ones which are larger in diameter. They
are part of the bearing. >><BR><BR>

Holy Semantics batman!!!

Like a gun 'cartridge', which includes the primer, powder, case and projectile,
a cartridge bearing has all the 'stuff', bearings, races, in a unit. In guns, a
muzzle loader doesn't use a 'cartridge', but a 'rifle ball', like shimano hubs
use ball bearings.

<< I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
getting killed. >><BR><BR>

What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Sheldon Brown]

Peter Chisholm asked:

> What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Welllll, a couple of years ago I visited Kill Devil Hill, N.C. where=20
they have a replica of the Wright Flyer. It turned out to contain quite =

a few bicycle parts, not at all to my surprise.

The "landing gear" (actually take-off gear, it used a row of edgewise=20
2x4s as a take-off rail) was a couple of old-timey looking front bicycle =

hubs. The flange spacing of the hubs was a good fit for the 2 x 4s.

I have no doubt that these hubs used loose balls...

Sheldon "Centennial's Comin'!" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The secrets of flight will not be mastered within our lifetime=85 |
| =85not within a thousand years =96Wilbur Wright, 1901 |=

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Sheldon Brown]

Chalo Colina thinks Shimano hubs are bad 'cause the cups are not
replaceable:

> That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear
> issue in a hub, and Shimano's hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that
> issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole wheel a
> finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing
> lasts forever.

Chalo, I gotta say this is a bum rap, and that singling out Shimano this
way is unreasonable and unfair.

Leaving cartridge bearing hubs out of the discussion, traditional
cup-and-cone hubs have always had non-replaceable cups, with the
exception of Campagnolo.

This is very rarely a problem for hubs given reasonable maintenance,
because cones wear out LONG before cups do. Not only does the cone have
a much smaller active surface are than the cup, the cup bears all of the
load on one side, while the cup is in constant revolution, so the stress
is shared all the way around its circumference.

In all my years of wrenching, I think I may once have replaced a cup in
a hub. In practice they are virtually immortal unless maintenance is
neglected or they're ridden while misadjusted.

Shimano hubs are far and away the best value available. Nothing even a
little better is available for less than 4 times the price.

Sheldon "Phils Are Nice" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Happy Moon Landing Day to all! None of us should |
| be working today--we should all be celebrating the |
| most important event of the last millennium! |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Chalo]

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Bingo!

Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work
properly every time they fly. No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone
for that. Yet those are qualities I like in my bike too.

Chalo

[A Muzi]

"Chalo"> >I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a
bearing
> >on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of
> >the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for somebody
> >getting killed.
> >
> >I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable.
> >If Shimano made parts for an aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
> >it.


"Phil Brown" > wrote in message
...
> Get over yourself, Chumpy. Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even
a
> badly damaged race and cone will go for many, many miles. And even the
worst
> case-a broken axle-isn't so bad on a bike because the axles are clamped at
both
> ends. Any bike machanic has stories about removing a wheel that turned
fine
> only to have the axle come apart when he did. And if you demand completely
> replaceable cup and cone bearings Campy is for you.

I believe Chalo is advocating hubs such as the Campagnolo Veloce, Phil Wood
and the cool SunRace JuJu which use readily available cartridge bearing
assemblies.
I like my traditional hubs but you have to admit that a cartridge bearing
type hub is logically better for service by your average guy because the
entire bearing system gets replaced with little suffering, there's no
subjective adjustment and they are dirt cheap everywhere.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Phil Brown]

>> What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.
>
>Bingo!
>
>Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work
>properly every time they fly. No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone
>for that. Yet those are qualities I like in my bike too.

Well, Chumpy, there are plenty of sealed cartiridge bearing hubs for you to
choose from. Of course you'll have to accept the seal drag that comes with them
which isn't present on a cup and cone but maybe you're just a big strong guy
and just overpower it. And last time I looked Paul MacReady used cup and cone
bearings and he (with a little help) won The Kremer Prize.
Phil Brown

[David L. Johnson]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:06:48 +0000, Sheldon Brown wrote:

> Chalo, I gotta say this is a bum rap, and that singling out Shimano this
> way is unreasonable and unfair.
>
> Leaving cartridge bearing hubs out of the discussion, traditional
> cup-and-cone hubs have always had non-replaceable cups, with the exception
> of Campagnolo.

And even that is questionable, as I found out when trying to replace the
cups on an abused Record hub I*acquired. They physically can be replaced,
but the part is unavailable.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Capt Bike-<< Welllll, a couple of years ago I visited Kill Devil Hill, N.C.
where=20
they have a replica of the Wright Flyer. It turned out to contain quite
>><BR><BR>

No doubt but I would have been horrified to learn that any bearings in the
aircraft I flew in the USN had loose ball bearings...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Chump-<< What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Bingo!

Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work
properly every time they fly. No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone
for that. >><BR><BR>

Loose balls in bicycles work well and have for over a century. The stresses are
much different to say the least and no bicycle design would be improved with
cart bearings..from hubs to HS to BBs...

No sane engineer would have put loose balls into any of the A/C I flew in the
USN, but in bikes, they are just fine...


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[David Damerell]

Phil Brown > wrote:
[Chalo Cholina likes cartridge bearlings]
>Of course you'll have to accept the seal drag that comes with them
>which isn't present on a cup and cone but maybe you're just a big strong guy
>and just overpower it.

Since a child of five would be hard put to notice it while riding along,
it seems likely that it wouldn't be much of an issue.
--
David Damerell > flcl?