Which Peter?

[Martin Dann]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.

Come on own up.

Martin.

[Paul Boyd]

Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:
> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
> We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
> still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[MJ Ray]

Paul Boyd <usenet.dont.work@plusnet>
> > http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
>
> Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
> have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
> confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Try asking - if it bounces for some reason,
pass it to me and I'll resend. Posting complaints semi-anonymously to
usenet just won't work as well.

Regards,
--
MJR/slef

[Dan Gregory]

Paul Boyd wrote:
> Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:
>> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
>> We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
>> still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.
>
> Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
> have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
> confirm, my name never seemed to appear.
>
> Typical government website, I suppose.

This one works ....

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Dan Gregory wrote:
> Paul Boyd wrote:
>> Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:
>>> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
>>> We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
>>> still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.
>>
>> Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
>> have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
>> confirm, my name never seemed to appear.
>>
>> Typical government website, I suppose.
>
> This one works ....
>
> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/

I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
take up significant extra space at no cost.

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

(And yes, I am commuting by train and bike at the moment.)
--
A

[[email protected]]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
> Dan Gregory wrote:
> > http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/
>
> I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
> genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
> take up significant extra space at no cost.

I see your argument, but would you charge for bulky luggage as well?

> I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
> be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
> that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Would it lead to greater provision, or merely serve to put off
cyclists?
I suspect the latter. Certainly, although I don't make many train
journeys
with my bike, I'd find such a supplement quite a disincentive.

John

[Tony Raven]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote on 17/01/2007 14:34 +0100:
>
> I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
> be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
> that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.
>

Would that also apply to people with suitcases or strollers?

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[Paul Boyd]

Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 14:34:

> I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
> genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
> take up significant extra space at no cost.

....whether bikes or oversize luggage?

> I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
> be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
> that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Second hand experience tells me that often the problem is not
necessarily lack of provision for bikes, but that the space provided is
full of suitcases. If this space is meant for bikes, then I think it
should be prioritised for bikes, but where do people then put their huge
suitcases? It was easy in the old days of course - it all went in the
guards van!

I think 20-25% is a little high, but I agree that cyclists (or large
luggage owners) should not expect to get free transport for these items.
If it can't fit between the seat backs, it should be charged for. If
there is no space behind the seats, such as on bus style seating, then
the TOCs should be made to provide adequate luggage space as well as
adequate bike space. Just my opinion, and probably totally unworkable!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell wrote on 17/01/2007 14:34 +0100:
>> I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid
>> would be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way,
>> and thus ensure that provision for cyclists was made convenient and
>> easy to use.
>
> Would that also apply to people with suitcases or strollers?

Well, you're allowed 2 suitcases and a bag, and by my reading, charges are
payable on strollers greater than 1m in any dimension. Full details in:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm

As far as I'm concerned, if there's no advantage for the rail networks in
carrying bikes, then they'll carry on as it is, with you needing to put the
bike on the train and then get out and walk down to a passenger entrance in
many cases, or cheap as chips luggage hooks or seats that you have to ask
someone to vacate to put your bike in or any of the other things that make
travelling with a bike so much less convenient than travelling without it.

For people with strollers and suitcases, the propensity to take them is
limited by them being so inconvenient to carry around. Bikes are not the
same in this case.

Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in part to
take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take full size bikes on
trains as easily as that, and worth paying money for too?
--
A

[Paul Boyd]

Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 17:12:

> http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm

Interesting reading! I wonder when they'll start enforcing it!

> Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in part to
> take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take full size bikes on
> trains as easily as that, and worth paying money for too?

I used to take my bike on trains regularly up until about 19 years ago,
especially when it was very heavily laden with studenty stuff at the
beginning and end of terms, and there just weren't the problems we have
now. I guess it's called progress...

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Paul Boyd wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 17:12:
>
>> http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm
>
> Interesting reading! I wonder when they'll start enforcing it!
>
>> Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in
>> part to take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take
>> full size bikes on trains as easily as that, and worth paying money
>> for too?
>
> I used to take my bike on trains regularly up until about 19 years
> ago, especially when it was very heavily laden with studenty stuff at
> the beginning and end of terms, and there just weren't the problems
> we have now. I guess it's called progress...

It's not so much that it's difficult (at least for me), although obviously
guard's vans are pretty much a thing of the past, but that it's considerably
more effort than going without a bike, and needn't be.

AFAIR, it was at least as difficult 15 years ago as it is nowadays.

A

[Paul Boyd]

On 17/01/2007 09:15, MJ Ray said,

> Try asking - if it bounces for some reason,
> pass it to me and I'll resend. Posting complaints semi-anonymously to
> usenet just won't work as well.

It was an observation, not a complaint. A complaint would imply it was
something I thought worth complaining about. Anyway, the confirmation
email just arrived, with the last half hour, having been sent at
12/01/07 18:48. I wonder if they PlusNet's email servers ;-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[Paul Boyd]

On 17/01/2007 17:46, Ambrose Nankivell said,

> AFAIR, it was at least as difficult 15 years ago as it is nowadays.

Maybe that narrows down when the rot set in :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[Naqerj]

wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell wrote:


>
>> I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
>> be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
>> that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.
>
> Would it lead to greater provision, or merely serve to put off
> cyclists?
> I suspect the latter. Certainly, although I don't make many train
> journeys
> with my bike, I'd find such a supplement quite a disincentive.
>

Many years ago, they used to charge half fares for cycles. I had one
holiday where I bought a weeks Rover ticket for myself and a half fare
one for the bike. In those days the rail staff were extremely helpful
if you were taking a bike on the train - the helpfulness went when bikes
traveled free. Unfortunately, one suspects that charging for bikes
again wouldn't bring back that helpful attitude.

--
Andrew

[Blonde]

Dan Gregory wrote:
> > Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
> > have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
> > confirm, my name never seemed to appear.
> >
> > Typical government website, I suppose.


Yeah, that's government databases for you - you're probably signed up
on that Home office one instead, in the 'gun runners, robbers and
thieves' section' ;- )

[Dan Gregory]

Blonde wrote:
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>>> Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
>>> have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
>>> confirm, my name never seemed to appear.
>>>
>>> Typical government website, I suppose.
>
>
> Yeah, that's government databases for you - you're probably signed up
> on that Home office one instead, in the 'gun runners, robbers and
> thieves' section' ;- )
>
That wasn't me - I wrote a reply to the OP you have quoted..
;-))