removing left crank retaining bolt

[Geoff Pearson]

I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

[Brian G]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>
>
The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen
key a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either
method because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Geoff Pearson
says...
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>
>
Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

[Geoff Pearson]

"Brian G" > wrote in message
...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
> The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
> length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
> that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
> a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
> because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.
>
> --
> Brian G
> www.wetwo.co.uk

thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
chamfered entries?

[Geoff Pearson]

"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, Geoff Pearson
> says...
>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>> on
>> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
>> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>>
>>
> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?

How do I do that?

[Brian G]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> "Brian G" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>>> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>> The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
>> length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
>> that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
>> a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
>> because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.
>>
>> --
>> Brian G
>> www.wetwo.co.uk
>
> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
> chamfered entries?
>
>
Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

[Nigel Cliffe]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> "Rob Morley" > wrote in message
> t...
>> In article >, Geoff Pearson
>> says...
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
>>> holding the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I
>>> wait - any ideas on
>>> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.



>>>
>> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
>
> How do I do that ?

Depends..... here's the two I'm used to:

If its an old style axle with bearings in races, then C-spanner (*) to undo
the lockring on the LHS of the bottom bracket, then rotate the bearing shell
to unscrew. The shell (and lockring) will extract from the frame, bringing
the axle and the LH bearing race. The RH bearing race might come as well, or
falls off in the RH shell.

If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract from
the RH of the frame.


The other types are the really modern "external bearing" types. No idea on
those, my bikes are not fashionable enough to have them.


(* Or, strong screwdriver and tap it round with a hammer )


- Nigel



--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Brian G
says...
<snip>
> Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
> remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
> socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
> IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.
>
>
ISTR some need a thin-wall socket, not a deep one. The one on the crank
puller is usually up to the job if used carefully.

[Nigel Cliffe]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> "Brian G" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
>>> holding the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I
>>> wait - any ideas on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and
>>> chainset. The BB sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>> The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a
>> short length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and
>> then using that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can
>> give the allen key a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take
>> care with either method because a sudden release of the bolt can
>> cause you a mischief. --
>> Brian G
>> www.wetwo.co.uk
>
> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part
> of my problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make
> teh perfect grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that
> don't have chamfered entries?

Lots, but not cheapy socket sets. You'll also find hexagonal, rather than
12-facet, sockets, which I find work better.
Need to visit a tool supplier to find them. Try the sort of place that
supplies the car repair trade (on an industrial estate, in general, not a
Halfords!).

However, with your existing sockets, assuming you've not rounded the old
nut(*), I would try:
Socket, then 4-6in extender, then T-bar (or ratchet).
Put a long piece of strong pipe over the T-bar (eg. 3ft of car exhaust
pipe).
Arrange crank so that it is wedged against something on floor (big lump of
wood under it, with force going down).

Arrange socket so that T-bar (and pipe) is roughly horizontal, and
convinient to put foot on end. Use hands to guide the extender bar, keeps
the socket straight and well pushed onto nut. Press foot gently and firmly
down on end of pipe. Should shift it.


(* if you have, and its rounded badly, then I think I'd look at drilling it
out if you cannot remove the axle as described in another post. I assume
you are discarding stuff )


- Nigel




--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Nigel Cliffe
says...
<snip>
> If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract from
> the RH of the frame.
>
>
Depends on the type - some have plastic 'cups' and can be removed with
careful application of a large hammer on the end of the axle. Of course
they probably won't be reusable after removal.

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Geoff Pearson
says...
>
> "Rob Morley" > wrote in message
> t...

> > Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
>
> How do I do that?
>

Use slip-joint pliers to remove the lockring and unscrew the adjusting
cup. Once the lockring is loose you might be able to undo the lockring
and cup at the same time by gripping very tightly so they both turn
together.

[Phil Cook]

Geoff Pearson wrote:

>"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
t...
>> In article >, Geoff Pearson
>> says...
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>>> on
>>> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
>>> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>>>
>> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
>
>How do I do that?

Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank and so it
is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
remove the crank to get at the cup. If it was the RH side it would be
possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
spanner. My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

[Geoff Pearson]

"Phil Cook" > wrote in message
...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>
>>"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
t...
>>> In article >, Geoff Pearson
>>> says...
>>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt
>>>> holding
>>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any
>>>> ideas
>>>> on
>>>> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>>>> sounds
>>>> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>>>>
>>> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
>>
>>How do I do that?
>
> Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank and so it
> is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
> remove the crank to get at the cup. If it was the RH side it would be
> possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
> spanner. My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(
> --
> Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

It is on a 1999 aluminium frame Specialized Hard Rock A1 Comp. I think it
will be visiting the Edinburgh Bike Coop to fix this, fit a new BB and a
new chainset - which no has sharks teeth.

[Pete Biggs]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part
> of my problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make
> teh perfect grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that
> don't have chamfered entries?

The crank remover from www.mikedyason.com comes with a 14mm hex socket
specially designed for the job. It is chamfered - but this shouldn't
matter.

~PB

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Phil Cook
says...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>
> >"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
> t...

> >> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
> >
> >How do I do that?
>
> Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank

Nope :-)

> and so it
> is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
> remove the crank to get at the cup.

I haven't even got to the "hacksaw the crank or grind through the axle"
bit yet.

> If it was the RH side it would be
> possible to remove the fixed cup if you had an open ended fixed cup
> spanner.

Depends on the chainset - some come so close to the edge of the fixed
cup so you really can't get in there with a chunky open-ender and a thin
one won't grip firmly enough.

> My old BB tools have a ring spanner for the fixed cup :-(
>
I no longer have tools for fitting CCB BBs - pliers and a bench vice
(and occasionally a punch and hammer) do OK for removing them.

[Phil Cook]

Brian G wrote:

>Geoff Pearson wrote:
>> "Brian G" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>>>> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>>>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

>>> The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
>>> length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage...

>> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
>> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
>> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
>> chamfered entries?

>Oh, sorry, it's a while since I had a bike with that type of bolt, but I
>remember the difficulty with removing them without the correct type of
>socket. You need to find a "deep" socket rather than the standard one.
> IIRC my local Halfords stocks them.

It's part of the crank puller in my toolkit. One like this
http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=63&products_id=5101

As Geoff says it's the lack of chamfer on the inside edges that
enables it to get a good grip on the rather thin bolt head.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

[Naqerj]

Geoff Pearson wrote:

>
> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
> chamfered entries?
>

Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket

--
Andrew

[Phil Cook]

Rob Morley wrote:

>In article >, Phil Cook
says...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>
>> >"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
>> t...
>
>> >> Why not just remove the BB cup complete with axle and crank?
>> >
>> >How do I do that?
>>
>> Indeed. Perhaps Rob missed the fact it was a left hand crank
>
>Nope :-)
>
>> and so it
>> is the adjustable side if it is an old style BB for which you need to
>> remove the crank to get at the cup.
>
>I haven't even got to the "hacksaw the crank or grind through the axle"
>bit yet.

I've been there :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

[Nigel Cliffe]

Rob Morley wrote:
> In article >, Nigel Cliffe
> says...
> <snip>
>> If its a new style cartridge bearing, then you don't. Those extract
>> from the RH of the frame.
>>
>>
> Depends on the type - some have plastic 'cups' and can be removed with
> careful application of a large hammer on the end of the axle. Of
> course they probably won't be reusable after removal.

The one I am familiar with (Shimano UN72 ?) has a plastic support screwed
into the LHS thread, and metal screw-in component on RHS which carries the
cartridge.
The LHS plasic part stops the cartridge waggling around in the frame.
Both are removed with a fancy socket, with lots of castellations around its
edge.
With LH crank still fitted to axle, it would not be possible to remove the
cartridge without resort to hacksaw or angle grinder.

I'm sure there are other variations, parts makers seem to be falling over
themselves to come up with yet more incompatible upgrades to long
established effective bicycle parts.


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

[Zog The Undeniable]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> "Brian G" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>>> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>> The traditional method is to lengthen your allen key by putting a short
>> length of metal pipe over it to give you extra leverage and then using
>> that leverage with a vengeance. Alternatively you can give the allen key
>> a couple of judicious taps with a hammer. Take care with either method
>> because a sudden release of the bolt can cause you a mischief.
>>
>> --
>> Brian G
>> www.wetwo.co.uk
>
> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
> chamfered entries?
>
>
Buy the proper Shimano extractor. It's quite cheap, everywhere sells it
and it has a suitably thin-walled 14mm socket built in, which you use
with a large adjustable spanner.

[Danny Colyer]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.

The solution I found after trying unsuccessfully for several months to
remove DW's left crank was to take it to LBS. They did it in seconds
and charged two quid - quite a bit less than I'd already spent on tools
that didn't do the job.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

[Geoff Pearson]

"Danny Colyer" > wrote in message
...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas
>> on how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB
>> sounds like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>
> The solution I found after trying unsuccessfully for several months to
> remove DW's left crank was to take it to LBS. They did it in seconds and
> charged two quid - quite a bit less than I'd already spent on tools that
> didn't do the job.
>
> --
> Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
> Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
> "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

That is my plan too - I will have to buy a bottom bracket and chainset so I
might as well let them fit it.

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Naqerj
says...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>
> >
> > thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
> > problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
> > grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
> > chamfered entries?
> >
>
> Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket
>
>
Bench grinder would be easier.

[Geoff Pearson]

"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >, Naqerj
> says...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part
>> > of my
>> > problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh
>> > perfect
>> > grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
>> > chamfered entries?
>> >
>>
>> Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket
>>
>>
> Bench grinder would be easier.

and so to the LBS...

[citizen142]

Too many replies to read them all. My initial thoughts.

Saw off the crank across the top, leave nut where it is and remove BB
and throw out. Assemble new chainset with new BB.

[Naqerj]

Rob Morley wrote:
> In article >, Naqerj
> says...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>
>>> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
>>> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
>>> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
>>> chamfered entries?
>>>
>> Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket
>>
>>
> Bench grinder would be easier.

True... but not for me, because my bench grinder is bolted to a bench in
my Dad's house. (Bringing it here is only just over 20 years over due -
you mustn't rush these jobs.) And, besides, a nangle grinder is the
Usenet weapon of choice, isn't it?

--
ANdrew

[Al C-F]

Geoff Pearson wrote:
> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>
>

Would sir have an impact driver perchance? And a bloody great hammer too?

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Al C-F
says...
> Geoff Pearson wrote:
> > I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
> > the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
> > how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
> > like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
> >
> >
>
> Would sir have an impact driver perchance? And a bloody great hammer too?
>
Closely followed by a bent frame ...
:-)

[Al C-F]

Rob Morley wrote:
> In article >, Al C-F
> says...
>> Geoff Pearson wrote:
>>> I've got the right crank (chainset) off but cannot shift the bolt holding
>>> the left hand one. It's soaking in WD40 now but while I wait - any ideas on
>>> how to shift it? I need to put in a new BB and chainset. The BB sounds
>>> like a concrete mixer so it can't go on.
>>>
>>>
>> Would sir have an impact driver perchance? And a bloody great hammer too?
>>
> Closely followed by a bent frame ...
> :-)

That would be the result the first time. Then, when you'd worked out
where you went wrong, you'd be able to do it without collateral damage
on your second and subsequent frames.

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Naqerj
says...
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > In article >, Naqerj
> > says...
> >> Geoff Pearson wrote:
> >>
> >>> thanks - but it is a 14mm-headed bolt not an allen key. I think part of my
> >>> problem is my socket set does not push deep enough in to make teh perfect
> >>> grip on the bolt head. Anyone make socket spanners that don't have
> >>> chamfered entries?
> >>>
> >> Chamfered socket + angle-grinder = non-chamfered socket
> >>
> >>
> > Bench grinder would be easier.
>
> True... but not for me, because my bench grinder is bolted to a bench in
> my Dad's house. (Bringing it here is only just over 20 years over due -
> you mustn't rush these jobs.) And, besides, a nangle grinder is the
> Usenet weapon of choice, isn't it?
>
Indeed - nothing smaller than an 8 incher is worth picking up. :-)