View Full Version : Suggestions on lighting systems
David Johnston
July 25th 03, 05:56 AM
I'm fed up with my Niterider Trailrat always burning out its bulb!
I've burnt out four bulbs in the last year and a half! I'm not even
knocking the thing around or dropping it. It always burns out
suddenly when I turn it on.
Is this kind of thing normal? Are all lighting systems going to
have this kind of trouble? I looked at Niterider's web site and they
claimed that a bulb should last years!
So I'm considering getting a more reliable lighting system, instead
of continuing to shell out $20 every four months. I was thinking
about one of the Niterider digital models, but I've read some negative
reviews, and Niterider is kind of on my **** list right now....
Can anyone give me some advice? I'll be using it for commuting in
Los Angeles. About 3/4 of the time I ride on streets with overhead
lights. I've been happy with the Trailrat so far except for its short
bulb life. I'd love it if I could get something with a smart charger
and longer battery life. Also, a fork mount option would be a bonus.
-David
Tim McNamara
July 25th 03, 06:30 AM
I've been delighted with my Schmidt dynamo hub and fork mounted
headlight. There are no batteries and the drag is imperceptible. It
wouldn't be suitable for off-road night rides, though.
Mike S.
July 25th 03, 06:58 AM
"David Johnston" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm fed up with my Niterider Trailrat always burning out its bulb!
> I've burnt out four bulbs in the last year and a half! I'm not even
> knocking the thing around or dropping it. It always burns out
> suddenly when I turn it on.
>
> Is this kind of thing normal? Are all lighting systems going to
> have this kind of trouble? I looked at Niterider's web site and they
> claimed that a bulb should last years!
>
> So I'm considering getting a more reliable lighting system, instead
> of continuing to shell out $20 every four months. I was thinking
> about one of the Niterider digital models, but I've read some negative
> reviews, and Niterider is kind of on my **** list right now....
>
> Can anyone give me some advice? I'll be using it for commuting in
> Los Angeles. About 3/4 of the time I ride on streets with overhead
> lights. I've been happy with the Trailrat so far except for its short
> bulb life. I'd love it if I could get something with a smart charger
> and longer battery life. Also, a fork mount option would be a bonus.
>
> -David.
Sounds like a problem with the wiring in the head unit. You tried talking
to Niterider?
Mike
Weezel
July 25th 03, 07:14 AM
I strongly suggest a $50 fix.
Get the CatEye OmiCube with the
5 LCD lights in it.
It is powered by 4 AA batteries
and the charge lasts for 1 yr dude!
I have it and a Planet Blinking White
3 LCD light ($10) on my Lightning Thunderbolt
recumbent and find it great for night riding
in the Suburbs of Glendora, CA. (25 miles East
of LA.)
The Cateye throughs out one hell of a lot of
light for a AA Battery powered.
Don Boring
Glendora, CA USA
dboringATispwest.com
stu
July 25th 03, 08:42 AM
are you up to making your own?
l did, was the best $50 l ever spent, and $12 of the was for the back light
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~drgagnon/
http://www.thefathippy.com/
lasts 3hours+ with a 20w bulb
look for a thread, Home Made Lights......Thanks Hippy, in aus.bicycle
David Johnston
July 25th 03, 01:13 PM
Tim McNamara > wrote in message >...
> I've been delighted with my Schmidt dynamo hub and fork mounted
> headlight. There are no batteries and the drag is imperceptible. It
> wouldn't be suitable for off-road night rides, though.
The Schmidt dynamo hub is appealing, but it's so expensive for
something that doesn't produce a lot of light. Also, I don't know how
I'd feel about the reduction in light, going from 10 Watts to 3. Yes,
going to 6 watts is possible with a secondary light, but that comes
out to about $250 without even factoring in the new rim and spokes.
In response to the Cateye LED light, that doesn't look like it has
the sort of power I'm looking for (though I admit I've never actually
tested one out).
-David
Michael
July 25th 03, 03:18 PM
(David Johnston) wrote ...
> Can anyone give me some advice? I'll be using it for commuting in
> Los Angeles. About 3/4 of the time I ride on streets with overhead
> lights. I've been happy with the Trailrat so far except for its short
> bulb life. I'd love it if I could get something with a smart charger
> and longer battery life. Also, a fork mount option would be a bonus.
I used a 15w NiteRider on my commute for years but never felt the
light was adequate for paths and unlit roads.
A couple of years ago I bought a SigmaSport Mirage - 25w (5 and 20w
lights). It's not sophisticated - no smart charger, heavy battery -
but it's bright, durable, lasts several hours on a charge, and best of
all is crazy cheap for that much wattage. List price is $70 but I've
seen it on sale for about $60 (Nashbar or Colorado Cyclist). It's a
steal at that price. I've used it several times a week through 2
winters so far with no problems at all.
Michael
Terry Morse
July 25th 03, 04:04 PM
David Johnston wrote:
> In response to the Cateye LED light, that doesn't look like it has
> the sort of power I'm looking for (though I admit I've never actually
> tested one out).
I took the Cateye 5-LED light to France this month, just in case I
got caught out in the dark. It was so bright that oncoming cars were
flashing their high beams at me. I was impressed. I was designated
the nighttime lead rider, due to the brightness of my light.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
Werehatrack
July 25th 03, 04:07 PM
On 25 Jul 2003 15:10:53 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
> may have said:
>David Johnston > wrote:
>>Tim McNamara >:
>>>I've been delighted with my Schmidt dynamo hub and fork mounted
>>>headlight. There are no batteries and the drag is imperceptible. It
>>>wouldn't be suitable for off-road night rides, though.
>>The Schmidt dynamo hub is appealing, but it's so expensive for
>>something that doesn't produce a lot of light. Also, I don't know how
>>I'd feel about the reduction in light, going from 10 Watts to 3.
>
>Don't worry about that. The beam patterns of the better headlights for
>this use are remarkable. I use the Bisy headlight, and although I mount
>two 3W battery headlights (one LED, one halogen) as backup, I am perfectly
>happy to ride in the dark (ie, no streetlights) with the Bisy alone.
The reason this works is that with a 3W conventional bulb, only about
one quarter of the energy used (at best, and generally much less) is
converted to light; with an LED, it's more on the order of two-thirds.
Most of the wattage of a regular bulb goes into making heat, not
light. The comparison is similar to fluorescent vs incandescent for
indoor lighting; the energy usage of fluorescents is trivial by
comparison to regular bulbs. There are a few people making LED
converions for MagLite flashlights, and the probable life expectancy
for the batteries in an *average* user's possession is much longer
than their shelf life. The light pattern isn't as tight since the
conversion uses multiple LEDs in a small cluster, but it's about the
same level of brightness.
--
My email address is antispammed;
pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
David Damerell
July 25th 03, 05:17 PM
Werehatrack > wrote:
> may have said:
>>Don't worry about that. The beam patterns of the better headlights for
>>this use are remarkable. I use the Bisy headlight, and although I mount
>>two 3W battery headlights (one LED, one halogen) as backup, I am perfectly
>>happy to ride in the dark (ie, no streetlights) with the Bisy alone.
>The reason this works is that with a 3W conventional bulb, only about
>one quarter of the energy used (at best, and generally much less) is
>converted to light; with an LED, it's more on the order of two-thirds.
This is completely irrelevant, since dynamo-driven headlights use
conventional bulbs.
--
David Damerell > Kill the tomato!
Thomas Reynolds
July 25th 03, 05:35 PM
(David Johnston) wrote in message >...
> I'm fed up with my Niterider Trailrat always burning out its bulb!
> I've burnt out four bulbs in the last year and a half! I'm not even
> knocking the thing around or dropping it. It always burns out
> suddenly when I turn it on.
>
> ......
> Can anyone give me some advice? I'll be using it for commuting in
> Los Angeles. About 3/4 of the time I ride on streets with overhead
> lights. I've been happy with the Trailrat so far except for its short
> bulb life. I'd love it if I could get something with a smart charger
> and longer battery life. Also, a fork mount option would be a bonus.
>
I have two Niterider lighting systems, one since 1998. I have had to
replace the bulb once. However, I am not impressed with Niterider QA.
I have had to fix several problems on their systems myself, just to
keep them going.
Anyhow, the point is that something is wrong with your system and
Niterider should fix it. There still may be recourse even though the
warrantly is expired. Check the laws in your state.
Tom
David Damerell
July 25th 03, 06:37 PM
Werehatrack > wrote:
> may have said:
>>This is completely irrelevant, since dynamo-driven headlights use
>>conventional bulbs.
>Is no one making an LED/dynamo setup? It seems like a natural
>symbiosis to me.
Rear dynamo lights are LEDs, because there there is a real efficiency
improvement with the lack of a need to use the rear filter. I remain to be
convinced that there's much in it for headlights - LEDs make great "being
seen" lights, but don't seem so good for seeing.
--
David Damerell > Kill the tomato!
Tim McNamara
July 25th 03, 08:19 PM
In article >,
(David Johnston) wrote:
> Tim McNamara > wrote in message
> >...
> > I've been delighted with my Schmidt dynamo hub and fork mounted
> > headlight. There are no batteries and the drag is imperceptible.
> > It wouldn't be suitable for off-road night rides, though.
>
> The Schmidt dynamo hub is appealing, but it's so expensive for
> something that doesn't produce a lot of light. Also, I don't know
> how I'd feel about the reduction in light, going from 10 Watts to
> 3. Yes, going to 6 watts is possible with a secondary light, but
> that comes out to about $250 without even factoring in the new rim
> and spokes.
Don't be mislead by watts, which are not necessarily a good indicator
of light output. Optics design is just as important. There's a lot
of good discussion about this on the Internet and in the bike lighting
mailing lists.
As far as output goes, I find after 6 hours of riding at night, my
Schmidt system (with Lumotec Oval headlight) puts out a lot more light
than any battery powered system. ;-) My lighting system is perfectly
suitable for riding in rural areas with little or no ambient light, at
speeds up to 35 mph.
I find this system superior for my needs, which of course doesn't make
it so for anyone else. It's always on my bike (well, that particular
bike), so I can ride without worrying about the sun going down whether
riding for fun or commuting.
pico23
July 26th 03, 12:48 AM
Thats odd because I have a petzl headlamp that I use for
climbing/hiking/kayaking ect. and the light on it is super bright and I
prefer it for seeing in the 10-15meter range with fresh batteries. The light
in question also has a second built in light with a halogen bulb and sure I
use this for spot beaming but I still use the LED 99% of the time even when
climbing a pitch.
I think you need to reevaluate LEDs. High quality ones are really bright and
work well. I wouldn't be suprised to see them in REAL light systems in the
next few years.
"David Damerell" > wrote in message
...
> Werehatrack > wrote:
> > may have said:
> >>This is completely irrelevant, since dynamo-driven headlights use
> >>conventional bulbs.
> >Is no one making an LED/dynamo setup? It seems like a natural
> >symbiosis to me.
>
> Rear dynamo lights are LEDs, because there there is a real efficiency
> improvement with the lack of a need to use the rear filter. I remain to be
> convinced that there's much in it for headlights - LEDs make great "being
> seen" lights, but don't seem so good for seeing.
> --
> David Damerell > Kill the tomato!
Werehatrack
July 26th 03, 05:25 AM
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:39:53 +1000, "stu" > may have
said:
>>The reason this works is that with a 3W conventional bulb, only about
>>one quarter of the energy used (at best, and generally much less) is
>>converted to light; with an LED, it's more on the order of two-thirds.
>LEDs and quartz halogen have about the same lumens per Watt.
My lightmeters disagree. The comparison is more like 3 to 1 in favor
of the LED, compared to 6 to 1 for a conventional incandescent. This
is taking readings from several angles and averaging them together.
The data in one of the LED manufacturers' spec sheets suggests that my
estimates are off by a good bit in the halogen's favor, but I'll take
mine. They suggest a ratio that seems absurdly good; the halogen
would have to be using less than 4% of its energy consumption for
light production for the figures to be correct, and I think that's
probably a bit low.
>Leds don't
>needs as much focusing because most of the light comes out the front anyway.
Good news and bad news there; the beam *can't* be focused very well by
the use of additional reflector elements; the lens is all you have to
work with. This isn't optimal by any means.
>So for a nice wide beam they work great. If you want a pencil beam you will
>have trouble. and for the same sort of output you are talking lots of $.
Higher than incandescent initially, yes, but cheaper in the long run
in appropriate applications...and frankly, the site you mentioned is
horribly overpriced. I can get many of the same items locally for
about one third of those prices. Not everyone knows where the stuff
is available, so they probably get a lot of business from folks who
just don't know of any other source. Many of the local truck lines
have entirely swapped over to the LED tail and signal lamp assemblies
because the price for that long-life unit is about half the cost of
the conventional unit with two years' worth of maintenance added in.
>See
>MR-16 about halfway down the page only $80each(l think you would need about
>4 of them to replace a 15W halogen)
>http://www.theledlight.com/dcbulbs.html
>and there figures are a little umm misleding (leading get it)
>>60mA at12vdc; 180 lumen; approximately 15 watts.
>the 15watts they are talking about must be an incandescent bulb, which is a
>little misleading being that it is a replacement of a halogen bulb
The lumens thing is also a bit difficult to make a comparison on; the
halogen bulb's output can, at this point, be utilized more efficiently
with reflectors that are already well understood and in production;
if, however, the lamp assembly is designed for the LED light source,
useful illumination levels which are comparable to those from halogen
bulbs can be achieved with less than one third of the power
consumption of halogen, just nowhere near as cheaply. On the other
hand, the LED assembly will be far more reliable. There are tradeoffs
everywhere.
>some more interesting stuff on LEDs
>http://www.theledlight.com/ledbulbs2.html
What they don't say (probably since I doubt that they know) is that
white LED units with a brightness adequate for automotive headlights
should be in mass production within the next 6 years, and should
appear in automobile and truck applications soon thereafter. There
are fundamental headlight design issues which must be addressed, and
it is considered unlikely that a DOT-approvable LED conversion for
existing headlamp bulbs will be marketed anytime soon, if ever. On
the plus side, it's not expected that the LED headlamps will be
anywhere near as hideously expensive as the high-frequency Xenon
strobe units that are currently available. They very well may reach
the level of standard equipment on low-end vehicles within 10 to 12
years. Since it's likely that the average LED headlight will outlast
the car that it's delivered with, they probably won't be something
that you'll find on the shelf at every parts store.
--
My email address is antispammed;
pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
John Albergo
July 26th 03, 11:58 PM
David Johnston wrote:
>I'm fed up with my Niterider Trailrat always burning out its bulb!
>I've burnt out four bulbs in the last year and a half! I'm not even
>knocking the thing around or dropping it. It always burns out
>suddenly when I turn it on.
>
> Is this kind of thing normal? Are all lighting systems going to
>have this kind of trouble? I looked at Niterider's web site and they
>claimed that a bulb should last years!
>
> So I'm considering getting a more reliable lighting system, instead
>of continuing to shell out $20 every four months. I was thinking
>about one of the Niterider digital models, but I've read some negative
>reviews, and Niterider is kind of on my **** list right now....
>
> Can anyone give me some advice? I'll be using it for commuting in
>Los Angeles. About 3/4 of the time I ride on streets with overhead
>lights. I've been happy with the Trailrat so far except for its short
>bulb life. I'd love it if I could get something with a smart charger
>and longer battery life. Also, a fork mount option would be a bonus.
>
>-David
>
>
David Damerell
July 28th 03, 03:21 PM
pico23 > wrote:
>"David Damerell" > wrote in message
>>Rear dynamo lights are LEDs, because there there is a real efficiency
>>improvement with the lack of a need to use the rear filter.
Of course I mean a red filter here.
>>I remain to be
>>convinced that there's much in it for headlights - LEDs make great "being
>>seen" lights, but don't seem so good for seeing.
>I think you need to reevaluate LEDs. High quality ones are really bright and
>work well. I wouldn't be suprised to see them in REAL light systems in the
>next few years.
Don't top-post, it gives you crabs.
I did check out several LED headlights recently; while I run a Schmidt hub
dynamo, I have two 4xAA battery lights as backup, one of which is an LED
light. It is very visible at a distance, but of little use for seeing
unless the surface is highly reflective; the halogen bulb light remains
much more useful for seeing what I'm doing.
Of course the LED light consumes less power, but it doesn't seem feasible
to get higher-power arrangements without the multiple LEDs on the Cateye
EL300. However, current headlights for dynamo use are very precisely
focused, which would not be possible with a number of separate light
sources.
--
David Damerell > Kill the tomato!
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