Final steps when chain cleaning

[Michael Slater]

I ride a Trek Liquid 20 in Singapore. That means inordinate amounts
of mud and water.

I've been wondering about the cleaning and lubricating process.

I end up doing things the way Park Tools advocates...
http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/CM5.shtml

Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.

The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.

I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
would mostly evaporate (or rust...)

So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
actually spray on the lubricant?

[Derk]

Michael Slater wrote:

> I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
> on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
> would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
I know a lot of people who go to a gas station where they have a device to
inflate tires. They use that to dry the chain.

I would move to a drier country after reading what you have to go through
when cleaning the chain ;-)

Greets, Derk

[Thunder9]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:22:51 GMT, Paul Kopit >
wrote:

>On 27 Jul 2003 01:03:09 -0700, (Michael
>Slater) wrote:
>
>>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>>
>>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>>actually spray on the lubricant?
>
>Keep 2 chains and one can dry while the other is in use.
>
>It would take a long time with a hair dryer. In the oven or in a
>frying pan might work.

Yea but he's keeping the chain on his bike. I don't see why it would
take so long with a hair dryer. 5 minutes?


>If drying the chain became a regular ritual,
>I'd rinse in 99% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). Acetone would work
>better but it costs more.

How does this work? Does that stuff replace the water and then
evaporate?

Thanks,
Thunder9

[GregR]

On 27 Jul 2003 01:03:09 -0700, (Michael
Slater) wrote:

>The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
>plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
>see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
>rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.
>
>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>
>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>actually spray on the lubricant?

Srpay it down with WD40, that will disperse any moisture left in the
chain. Wipe it down, then apply lube.

G

[Werehatrack]

On 27 Jul 2003 01:03:09 -0700, (Michael
Slater) may have said:

>Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
>cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.
>
>The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
>plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
>see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
>rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.

No, but there's a good chance that the chain lube will displace the
water anyway, removing it from contact with the metal surfaces. The
less water that's present to be displaced, though, the better.

>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)

I believe that your climate is very similar to where I grew up, in
which case it would be more likely to rust. It would be better to get
the lubricant on to the chain right away.

>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>actually spray on the lubricant?

My advice: Don't wait at all. If your chain lube doesn't displace
the moisture that's present when you're lubricating it, will it really
be able to protect the chain while you're riding in wet conditions?

If you're adventurous, then you may want to try the chain cleaning and
lubricating method advocated by another of the frequent contributors
here. He suggests a hot wax dip immediately after using conventional
cleaning methods; heat paraffin wax to slightly more than the boiling
point of water, drop the wet chain in it, wait until the sizzle
subsides (which shows that the hot wax has both removed the water and
fully penetrated the chain) and then fish the chain out with a piece
of wire. As soon as the chain cools just enough to be safe to handle
(but before the wax has fully hardened) the chain is reinstalled and
the bike is *immediately* ridden, to prevent the chain from freezing
in position due to wax adhesion. This also removes the excess wax.
He contends that no additional lube is needed, and that the chain will
pick up less dirt with this method than with regular lube. I have one
bike on which I'm trying his method, and it seems to be working so
far, but it hasn't been in service long enough for me to be able to
say for sure. The principal problems with the method lie in the area
of heating the wax without running the risk of igniting it. He
suggests doing it in a pan on the stove; I melted it in a small,
covered baking pan in an oven set for about 120C. You must make sure
that you do not approach the flash point of the paraffin, which is at
just about 200C, as it will spontaneously ignite if you do.

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[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:27:33 GMT, (Thunder9) may
have said:

>Yea but he's keeping the chain on his bike. I don't see why it would
>take so long with a hair dryer. 5 minutes?

If you've ever lived in a climate like that, you know that drying a
chain with a hair dryer would be likely to take on the order of half
an hour. Around here, I'd expect the hair dryer to speed the process
only a little; the occluded water in the link joints and rollers has
little exposed surface area, and the links would have to be heated
quite a bit before the rate of evaporation would increase much. Metal
absorbs a lot of heat without a lot of temperature change.

>>If drying the chain became a regular ritual,
>>I'd rinse in 99% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). Acetone would work
>>better but it costs more.
>
>How does this work? Does that stuff replace the water and then
>evaporate?

Water and isopropyl alcohol are soluble in each other; using the
alcohol as a rinse replaces most of the water with the alcohol, which
then evaporates rapidly; the remaining amount of water is then usually
so slight that it quickly evaporates as well. I have used this method
in other applications. (I generally use denatured alcohol, though,
because it's cheaper.)

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[mark]

"Werehatrack" wrote
> My advice: Don't wait at all. If your chain lube doesn't displace
> the moisture that's present when you're lubricating it, will it really
> be able to protect the chain while you're riding in wet conditions?
>
> If you're adventurous, then you may want to try the chain cleaning and
> lubricating method advocated by another of the frequent contributors
> here. He suggests a hot wax dip immediately after using conventional
> cleaning methods; heat paraffin wax to slightly more than the boiling
> point of water, drop the wet chain in it, wait until the sizzle
> subsides (which shows that the hot wax has both removed the water and
> fully penetrated the chain) and then fish the chain out with a piece
> of wire. As soon as the chain cools just enough to be safe to handle
> (but before the wax has fully hardened) the chain is reinstalled and
> the bike is *immediately* ridden, to prevent the chain from freezing
> in position due to wax adhesion. This also removes the excess wax.
> He contends that no additional lube is needed, and that the chain will
> pick up less dirt with this method than with regular lube. I have one
> bike on which I'm trying his method, and it seems to be working so
> far, but it hasn't been in service long enough for me to be able to
> say for sure. The principal problems with the method lie in the area
> of heating the wax without running the risk of igniting it. He
> suggests doing it in a pan on the stove; I melted it in a small,
> covered baking pan in an oven set for about 120C. You must make sure
> that you do not approach the flash point of the paraffin, which is at
> just about 200C, as it will spontaneously ignite if you do.

I experimented with waxing chains for a while- I found that the safest
method of melting the wax was a double boiler. I would put the wax in a
small open can, and put the can in a pot of boiling water. The boiling water
would be hot enough to melt the wax, but a long ways below the flash point
of the paraffin. A second benefit was that the water in the pot would keep
the wax hot and molten for a good while after I took it off the stove,
allowing better penetration of the wax into the chain. This used to be a
popular method of cleaning and lubing chains, especially in wet climates.
Opinions vary as to whether additional lube is needed; I've seen bike chain
specific waxes on the market, and heard reports of people blending lubes
into the wax.

Lately I've been removing the chain from the bike, dunking it in citrus
degreaser (or automotive Simple Green), wiping it dry, and lubing it and
putting it back on the bike. Would combining this with waxing the chain be
appropriate in a humid climate?
--
mark

[Robin Hubert]

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

--
Robin Hubert >

"Michael Slater" > wrote in message
om...
> I ride a Trek Liquid 20 in Singapore. That means inordinate amounts
> of mud and water.
>
> I've been wondering about the cleaning and lubricating process.
>
> I end up doing things the way Park Tools advocates...
> http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/CM5.shtml
>
> Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
> cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.
>
> The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
> plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
> see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
> rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.
>
> I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
> on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
> would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>
> So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
> actually spray on the lubricant?
>

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:56:41 GMT, "mark"
> may have said:

>I experimented with waxing chains for a while- I found that the safest
>method of melting the wax was a double boiler. I would put the wax in a
>small open can, and put the can in a pot of boiling water. The boiling water
>would be hot enough to melt the wax, but a long ways below the flash point
>of the paraffin.

This also keeps the temp of the wax just below the boiling point of
water, though, and part of what I was trying to accomplish was to use
the vaporization of the water to drive out all the moisture and carry
any small amount of remaining crud with it; sort of an instant
steam-cleaning. The flash point of the wax is at 200C (395F), so
heating it in the oven at 250F seemed to be a reasonable procedure,
and in fact presents no apparent major hazard as long as the pan is
handled with due care and the oven is turned off when the pan is being
moved. (The latter is simply a safety precaution; I have a gas oven.)

>Lately I've been removing the chain from the bike, dunking it in citrus
>degreaser (or automotive Simple Green), wiping it dry, and lubing it and
>putting it back on the bike. Would combining this with waxing the chain be
>appropriate in a humid climate?

That's similar to what I've done with one of mine; I used an
automotive degreaser, then pressure-washed the chain, and then waxed
it. This is a wet climate by some people's reckoning[1], but I seldom
ride in the wet since I don't have fenders on any of my bikes yet. I
just waxed that chain a week or two ago, so I'm not ready to pronounce
the experiment either a success or a disappointment just yet. So far,
though, it's working, and if it turns out to be less effective than
I'd like, I doubt that the presence of the wax will interfere with
simply relubricating the chain conventionally. Ergo, there appears to
be no *drawback* to using the wax.

There's a bike shop nearby that rents units for people to ride on the
bike trails in the large city park that's close to them. I may stop
in and ask them what they use for lube on their fleet, since those
trails get muddy when it rains and they're sandy and dusty when it's
dry.


[1] I don't consider Houston particularly wet, but then, I grew up in
Miami, where there's probably three times as much rain. I get the
strangest looks when I tell folks that I moved here for the cool, dry
climate and the presence of four distinct seasons...but that's the way
it seems to me.

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[TBGibb]

In article >,
(Thunder9) writes:

>>If drying the chain became a regular ritual,
>>I'd rinse in 99% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). Acetone would work
>>better but it costs more.
>
>How does this work? Does that stuff replace the water and then
>evaporate?
>

Alcohol and water combine to form a mixture (I think it's called an azotropic
mixture) that evaporates more easily than the water does. I little fact of
physical chemistry that bedevils alcohol distilation.

Personally I wouldn't use water at all. I use paint thinner with good results.
It evaporates quickly and it doesn't promote rust. .

Tom Gibb >

[Jose Rizal]

Werehatrack:

> >>If drying the chain became a regular ritual,
> >>I'd rinse in 99% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). Acetone would work
> >>better but it costs more.
> >
> >How does this work? Does that stuff replace the water and then
> >evaporate?
>
> Water and isopropyl alcohol are soluble in each other; using the
> alcohol as a rinse replaces most of the water with the alcohol, which
> then evaporates rapidly; the remaining amount of water is then usually
> so slight that it quickly evaporates as well. I have used this method
> in other applications. (I generally use denatured alcohol, though,
> because it's cheaper.)

It's more than that: alcohol is hydrophilic, which means it readily
absorbs water. When alcohol evaporates, it takes the water with it.
That's why skin becomes dry after having alcohol evaporate on it.

[Paul Kopit]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:27:33 GMT, (Thunder9)
wrote:

>Yea but he's keeping the chain on his bike. I don't see why it would
>take so long with a hair dryer. 5 minutes?
>
>
>>If drying the chain became a regular ritual,
>>I'd rinse in 99% isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). Acetone would work
>>better but it costs more.
>
>How does this work? Does that stuff replace the water and then
>evaporate?


In order to boil water, which has to be done to get the water out of
the innerpart of the chain and also get rid of surface moisture, takes
more than 212 degrees for a while. The outside of the chain will get
dry but not the inside.

Water is soluble in ispropanol and acetone. You are solvent washing
the water out with a volatile solvent that is also oil soluble. You
could likely do the water removal with a lot of WD2 sprayed on chain
and then wiped off.

[Paul Kopit]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:56:41 GMT, "mark"
> wrote:

>I experimented with waxing chains for a while- I found that the safest
>method of melting the wax was a double boiler.

Not hot enough to displace water. An electric frying pan and about
300 degrees works great. Do it outside. Deep fry the chain don't
boil it.

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

Do you have access to an air compressor? you could try spraying it out.

May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris

Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Werehatrack]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:03:53 -0400 (EDT),
(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") may have said:

(Werehatrack) misinterpreted:
>
>
>>He suggests doing it in a pan on the
>>stove; I melted it in a small, covered
>>baking pan in an oven set for about
>>120C. You must make sure that you do
>>not approach the flash point of the
>>paraffin, which is at just about 200C, as
>>it will spontaneously ignite if you do.
>
>WOAH! I never said that! I suggest using a small electric skillet set at
>about 250º OR if you don't have one, a double boiler. The skillet
>method is, obviously, much safer.
>
>That way the wax never get's near it's flash point of around 350-375º.
>NEVER heat wax directly over the stove, unless it's under constant
>surveillance and you have a fire extinguisher handy, just in case. It's
>no less dangerous than boiling oil when it gets thast hot!

Sorry; to me, a double boiler is still a pan on the stove, although
you're 100% correct that at least it's a *safe* method. Just not
fully effecive. With an electric stove set on a fairly low heat
level, with a meat thermometer to check the temp of the wax, though, a
pan on the stove is probably as safe as an electric skillet; the
principal advantage of the latter would be the ability to do the
heating outside, in the driveway, away from other combustibles. Hmmm.
Now that I think about it, they've had electric frying pans and the
occasional electric deep fryer (now, *there* is an idea!) at Goodwill
regularly for about $5...

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[Rick Onanian]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:32:23 GMT, Werehatrack >
wrote:
> say for sure. The principal problems with the method lie in the area
> of heating the wax without running the risk of igniting it. He

Easy, if you care to apply some money to the problem. Get the
machine whose purpose is specifically to heat that wax without
igniting it. These can be gotten at any beauty-supply store. My
girlfriend is a manicurist and has such a machine.

The wax may be cheaper from a hardware store than from the beauty
store, but hey...wouldn't you want a floral or lemon scented chain
on your bike? ;)

--
Rick Onanian

[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:44:17 -0400, Rick Onanian >
may have said:

>On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:32:23 GMT, Werehatrack >
>wrote:
>> say for sure. The principal problems with the method lie in the area
>> of heating the wax without running the risk of igniting it. He
>
>Easy, if you care to apply some money to the problem. Get the
>machine whose purpose is specifically to heat that wax without
>igniting it. These can be gotten at any beauty-supply store. My
>girlfriend is a manicurist and has such a machine.
>
>The wax may be cheaper from a hardware store than from the beauty
>store, but hey...wouldn't you want a floral or lemon scented chain
>on your bike? ;)

And no unsightly chain hair, either!

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[Andrew Webster]

(TBGibb) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (Thunder9) writes:
>

>
> Alcohol and water combine to form a mixture (I think it's called an azotropic
> mixture) that evaporates more easily than the water does. I little fact of
> physical chemistry that bedevils alcohol distilation.
>
<pendantic mode>

It's actually an azeotropic mixture.

</pedantic mode>

> Tom Gibb >

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...
>I ride a Trek Liquid 20 in Singapore. That means inordinate amounts
>of mud and water.
>I've been wondering about the cleaning and lubricating process.
>I end up doing things the way Park Tools advocates...
>http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/CM5.shtml
>Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
>cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.
>The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
>plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
>see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
>rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.
>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>actually spray on the lubricant?

You can do a better job of cleaning the chain by simply removing it and
soaking it in your favorite solvent and agitate the container every so
often. Then let the chain dry and lube with your favorite lube. Do
one link at a time and let the lube soak in. Then wipe the excess lube
off with a clean rag. Then re-install the chain. It goes very fast.
If you use two chains to rotate on and off your bike, you are never
without use of your bike.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)

[David Kunz]

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>I ride a Trek Liquid 20 in Singapore. That means inordinate amounts
>>of mud and water.
>>I've been wondering about the cleaning and lubricating process.
>>I end up doing things the way Park Tools advocates...
>>http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/CM5.shtml
>>Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
>>cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.
>>The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
>>plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
>>see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
>>rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.
>>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>>actually spray on the lubricant?
>
>
> You can do a better job of cleaning the chain by simply removing it and
> soaking it in your favorite solvent and agitate the container every so
> often. Then let the chain dry and lube with your favorite lube. Do
> one link at a time and let the lube soak in. Then wipe the excess lube
> off with a clean rag. Then re-install the chain. It goes very fast.
> If you use two chains to rotate on and off your bike, you are never
> without use of your bike.

When I do this, my chain doesn't last as long as when I use one of the
on bike cleaners. I tried turpentine for 2 chains.

David

[Rick Onanian]

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:22:45 GMT, Werehatrack >
wrote:
> If the user isn't employing an expensive and exotic lubicant, is there
> some reason not to simply dunk the clean chain in a can of lube and
> let it sit for a day or two?

I use lubes that don't come in quantities or packaging suitable
for this method...a bike lube that comes in a little squirt bottle
or a spray can.

> --
> My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
> Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
> it's also possible that I'm busy.
--
Rick Onanian

[David Kunz]

Spider wrote:
> David Kunz > wrote in message ink.net>...
>
>>Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I ride a Trek Liquid 20 in Singapore. That means inordinate amounts
>>>>of mud and water.
>>>>I've been wondering about the cleaning and lubricating process.
>>>>I end up doing things the way Park Tools advocates...
>>>>http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/CM5.shtml
>>>>Where I'm puzzled is the "drying the chain with a rag" bit, after
>>>>cleaning/rinsing the chain and before lubricating it.
>>>>The thing I've noticed is, "yeah, I can get the moisture off the
>>>>plates and things, but if you look in the cracks and crevices, you can
>>>>see that there is definitely water trapped here and there. All the
>>>>rag-wiping in the world isn't going to drain it out.
>>>>I think about the only thing you could do would be to run a hair dryer
>>>>on the chain. Or perhaps if you let the chain sit out overnight it
>>>>would mostly evaporate (or rust...)
>>>>So what should I do? and how long to wait after "wiping with rag" to
>>>>actually spray on the lubricant?
>>>
>>>
>>>You can do a better job of cleaning the chain by simply removing it and
>>>soaking it in your favorite solvent and agitate the container every so
>>>often. Then let the chain dry and lube with your favorite lube. Do
>>>one link at a time and let the lube soak in. Then wipe the excess lube
>>>off with a clean rag. Then re-install the chain. It goes very fast.
>>>If you use two chains to rotate on and off your bike, you are never
>>>without use of your bike.
>>
>>When I do this, my chain doesn't last as long as when I use one of the
>>on bike cleaners. I tried turpentine for 2 chains.
>>
>>David
>
>
> Odd, I get about double the life out of my chain by doing it this way
> (I use mineral spirits, the kind most folks call paint thinner), but
> it could be that I am just seeing two chain life-times, LOL!

I was surprised also because I'd read many posts similar to yours.
Later I read a couple that claimed that the solvent worked too well and
it was difficult to get the lube back deep into the chain, and that at
least one chain manufacturer (I dont' remember which) recommended
against it for that reason. Since I recycled my lube
(filtered/settled-decanted), I didn't expect this to be the problem (the
solvent felt pretty slippery after a while :)), but maybe it was? After
the shorter life of the 1st chain, I made sure that I was more liberal
with the lube (wiping the excess off) -- didn't help.

> BTW, the difference that I really notice is in the condition of the
> cassette and the chainrings. I don't replace them nearly as often.
> Taking the chain off really helps me clean all the cogs, so there may
> be a benefit in that alone.

I spray simple green on the cogs and use the chain/pedals to drive them
holding a stiff narrow brush against them. When I took the chain off to
clean it, this was actually a *little* harder -- I turned the wheel
backwards to drive the cogs :).

> I use SRAM chains with PowerLinks, so it's a tool-free job.

Yep, me too.
Got a Wipperman for my next one though (for comparison :)) -- it also
has a master link and is SUPPOSED to be better made.

David