How long do your splined cranks/hub last?

[madmattunipro]

I am just curious as to what others have found for the long term
durability of splined cranks and hubs. I know they last WAY longer than
square taper, because I have broken two square taper hubs within my
first year of riding, and my splined hub has lasted me 3 years so far
but...

My cranks are starting to wiggle quite a bit now(read several
millimeters at pedal), they have been doing it for some time but they
are starting to bug me just a little bit. Before you start lecturing me
about maintenance and ant-sieze, I will say that I fully disassemble my
cranks, washers, and bearings, clean them all, and re-lather the
anti-sieze. I also checck my bolts for tightness every time I
ride.However, after 3 years of bad tecnique and abusive riding, there
is more play between the splines than I would like, but the splines
show no apparent damage. My spacers(2 per side per bearing) are severly
deformed, but I dont' believe that they are the problem.

Is there something I'm missing? Or is it just that the overall wear and
tear is catching up with me? This is my first pair of splined cranks,
so I can't say I have a huge base of personal expirience to lean back
on. Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.


-matt


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[johnfoss]

I hope my splined crankset(s) will last indefinitely, but I'm sure it
depends on how much abuse they get. What's missing from your post was
anything to indicate what kind of crankset you were talking about. Mine
is Profile, and the right side always creaks. This leads me to believe
that wear & tear is happening just from hard cranking up & down the
hills. The many splines in a Profile crankset are very small compared
to the few, larger splines in most other brands of crankset.


--
johnfoss

John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

"pretty much every trail that we've done on the California or Moab Muni
weekends is an XC trail." -- Kris Holm, on XC from a North Shore point
of view
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[madmattunipro]

Whoops sorry, I though I had mentioned that they are profiles. 170 mm. I
do mostly abusive riding on pavement due to the lack of dirt trails
around here... I've dropped up to about 5 and a half feet to flat
pavement with much less than perfect tecnique, and I do lots of stalls
and climbs and attempted grinds and crap like that, so I know that I am
very hard on them.


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[trials_uni]

ive had my '03 KHs for a year now and they've been ridden relativey hard
by me and others. As long as you keep care of them up then you should
be fine...Do regular spline maintenance and your splines should last
forever....look in my sig for a link to a guide.


--
trials_uni

TRIALS 4 LIFE !
'Check Out The Newbie Guide' (http://tinyurl.com/99yez)
'And the Spline Maintenance Guide!'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52195)*<UPDATED!!!With
Video*

BillyTheMountain wrote:
> Hey thanks! The unicycle community needs more people like you, willing
> to out Bike Suprematists and stand up for the rights of unicyclists!
> I'm puttiing you in for an Award at NAUCC!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
trials_uni's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10953
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[madmattunipro]

I don't think you read my firts post. I do regular maintenance on my hub
and cranks. I was shown first hand by a very good rider how to maintain
splines and I have done so. My cranks were doing great after a year of
hard riding too... but not so great after 3 years.


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[mscalisi]

Sounds like keyway slop.

http://tinyurl.com/29qq72


--
mscalisi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mscalisi's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4961
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[entropy]

madmattunipro wrote:
> I don't think you read my firts post. I do regular maintenance on my hub
> and cranks. I was shown first hand by a very good rider how to maintain
> splines and I have done so. My cranks were doing great after a year of
> hard riding too... but not so great after 3 years.


The profile interface between spindle & crank will wear down over time
and become sloppy as you describe...abuse tends to wear away the metal
a bit faster. It's a fact of life.

If you ever get a chance, try a new(er) set of cranks and see if the
situation improves. I have no source to cite, but I seem to remember a
discussion about the crank interface wearing out faster than the
spindle. You might be able to get away with new cranks, but I'm not
really sure if that is the case.

Yours have been used for three years? Sounds pretty likely that they
are just wearing out. Although, like Scalisi said, it could also be
keyway slop. Does the whole spindle jiggle, or just the crank arms?


--
entropy

Shut up and ride.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
entropy's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5816
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[madmattunipro]

As far as I can tell it's just the crank arms. I might take a closer
look at this keyway slop though too... I've never totally disected my
hub, so I really don't know how it all works in there, but maybe
tonight is the night to find out...


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[john_childs]

The splines on the Profile cranks and spindle are going to wear. That
is obvious when you notice how hard they are to remove when brand new
compared to how easy they are to remove when used for a while. But I
don't think the slop just due to wear of the splines will get to be
that noticeable.

You should replace the deformed spacer washers. They're aluminum and
deform after some period of use. The deforming may cause the crank
bolt to bottom out which would contribute to additional slop. Make
sure you're using enough spacers so that the crank bolts don't bottom
out when fully tightened. Dan's Comp sells replacement spindle spacer
washers and so does Unicycle.com. Your LBS can also order them. See
if that tightens things up and reduces the slop.

Also check that the spindle is centered in the hub. If one side is
longer than the other you can correct it by using more spacers or by
getting more aggressive an physically recentering the spindle but there
are risks with that.


--
john_childs

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Team Never Wash Your Muni
Gallery: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs
'Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[skrobo]

madmattunipro wrote:
> I am just curious as to what others have found for the long term
> durability of splined cranks and hubs. I know they last WAY longer than
> square taper, because I have broken two square taper hubs within my
> first year of riding, and my splined hub has lasted me 3 years so far
> but...
>
> My cranks are starting to wiggle quite a bit now(read several
> millimeters at pedal), they have been doing it for some time but they
> are starting to bug me just a little bit. Before you start lecturing me
> about maintenance and ant-sieze, I will say that I fully disassemble my
> cranks, washers, and bearings, clean them all, and re-lather the
> anti-sieze. I also checck my bolts for tightness every time I
> ride.However, after 3 years of bad tecnique and abusive riding, there
> is more play between the splines than I would like, but the splines
> show no apparent damage. My spacers(2 per side per bearing) are severly
> deformed, but I dont' believe that they are the problem.
>
> Is there something I'm missing? Or is it just that the overall wear and
> tear is catching up with me? This is my first pair of splined cranks,
> so I can't say I have a huge base of personal expirience to lean back
> on. Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.
>
>
> -matt



my DX cranks do the exact same thing. they have done it for a while and
its getting worse and worse, mine is probably 5mm. it SUCKS. I'm almost
ready to just smear some plastic epoxy alll over it and just say screw
it to maintaining them.

I think the problem is actually that the splines stretch (jsut a tiny
bit), because I know that I used to have a little trouble putting them
on, but now, its REALLY easy
they also fit on a QU-AX hub (perfectly), but they aren't supposed to.

I have had it for almost a year now
done up to 14 foot drops (into sand) I did it 2x.


--
skrobo

><> Unicycle For Christ <><

____________________________________________
-last edited by \"elvisunifreak\" at 8:35 pm -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
skrobo's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/12272
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[madmattunipro]

skrobo wrote:
> done up to 14 foot drops (into sand) I did it 2x.



Nice, we hit up a sand pit on the edge of town in the summer, though I
don't know if it's quite 14 feet deep. Probably done at least 10 or 12.


Anyways, Yes, I am replacing the washers, my shipment of parts from
Bedford came yesterday, but I was so busy with my carbon fiber seat
base that I didn't quite get to the cranks.

From what I've heard, it sounds like my best guess of simple wear and
tear is probably correct. However I won't be replacing the cranks for a
while, so I guess I'll just have to live with it. I'll let you guys
know what the washers do.


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[madmattunipro]

I just put my new spacers on and I am totally amazed. As far as I can
tell just by wiggling them, they are almost as solid as they were new.
I haven't ridden it yet, but I will tonight.


--
madmattunipro

><>Unicycle For Christ<><

www.bedfordunicycles.ca

http://www.norco.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
madmattunipro's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10763
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[john_childs]

madmattunipro wrote:
> I just put my new spacers on and I am totally amazed. As far as I can
> tell just by wiggling them, they are almost as solid as they were new.
> I haven't ridden it yet, but I will tonight.


The spacers are important in keeping the Profile style cranks tight.
When they deform (squish) too much you'll get slop.

When I first got the Profile cranks I would be careful to only use the
minimum amount of spacers as I could. That was to minimize the
Q-factor. Now that I realize how important the spacers are for
preventing slop I add an additional 1/16" or 1/8" spacer on each side
for good measure. The minimal Q-factor isn't that important. It's
better to have cranks that stay tight with minimal slop.


--
john_childs

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Team Never Wash Your Muni
Gallery: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs
'Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[john_childs]

skrobo wrote:
> my DX cranks do the exact same thing. they have done it for a while and
> its getting worse and worse, mine is probably 5mm. it SUCKS. I'm almost
> ready to just smear some plastic epoxy alll over it and just say screw
> it to maintaining them.
>
> I think the problem is actually that the splines stretch (jsut a tiny
> bit), because I know that I used to have a little trouble putting them
> on, but now, its REALLY easy
> they also fit on a QU-AX hub (perfectly), but they aren't supposed to.
>
> I have had it for almost a year now
> done up to 14 foot drops (into sand) I did it 2x.


I've seen some DX cranks that were tightened so much that the crank is
actually deformed around the area of the pinch bolt. That's not good.
That is likely to cause slop. The pinch bolt should not be tightened
so tight that the metal around the area of the pinch bolt deforms.

Anti-seize on the splines and the pinch bolt threads will make it
easier to get the cranks snug and tight without going ape and
overtightening them.

I don't think epoxy would be a good way to try and salvage your cranks.
I don't think it would hold up to the pressure that is generated
between the spline surfaces. It might end up turning to dust in the
high pressure areas.

You might try some brass or aluminum shim material. If that doesn't
work it would be removable.

If you know a place that can do plating you can get the splined end of
the crank plated with nickel or something similar. It can be expensive
though to get a part plated.


--
john_childs

john_childs (att) hotmail (dott) com
Team Never Wash Your Muni
Gallery: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/john_childs
'Unicycling Bookmark List' (http://backcountry.unicyclist.com/) ::
'World Clock' (http://tinyurl.com/a99y3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296

[Jenneration]

What's a hub? :)


--
Jenneration
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jenneration's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14430
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/58296