Re: Thoughts on braking

[John Appleby]

> 3) If trail riders don't use their front brakes much--as my friend,
> who was a sometime MTBer, seems to allege--why do I see so many
> front-wheel disk brakes?

If you think of your weight distribution on the bike, the rear wheel can
lock and you can carry on slowing down, whilst if the front wheel locks you
are over the bars.

As a result the front brake is far more effective a stopping mechanism
provided you don't lock it up. Obviously using both brakes at once is going
to stop you faster than using just one, though I suspect that in average MTB
riding use, you use mostly the front brake when braking hard. 70% sounds
realistic.

What is often the case on a MTB is that you use the rear brake for tactical
manoevres - for example to control your line of attack in a sharp corner.
Try doing that with the front brake and you will find that it slides
underneath you and you stack.

My suspicion is that either your friend hasn't ridden without a front brake,
or he doesn't ride very hard.

Regards,

John

[Mark Jones]

"John Appleby" > wrote in message
...
> My suspicion is that either your friend hasn't ridden without a front
brake,
> or he doesn't ride very hard.
I don't ride all that hard and I still can't imagine
never using the front brake. I have tested stopping
with just one brake or the other and the front brake
always seems to do a better job. It is a lot easier
to lock up the back brake on most bikes I have owned.

[David Damerell]

John Appleby > wrote:
>As a result the front brake is far more effective a stopping mechanism
>provided you don't lock it up. Obviously using both brakes at once is going
>to stop you faster than using just one,

That may be obvious to you but it is still not true. Read Sheldon's page
on the subject!
--
David Damerell > flcl?

[Mike S.]

> That may be obvious to you but it is still not true. Read Sheldon's page
> on the subject!
> --
> David Damerell > flcl?

There are a lot of things that Sheldon knows a lot more about than I do.
There are also topics on which I strongly disagree with him. This is one.

I would really like to be there when someone using Sheldon's braking article
as gospel really needs to stop NOW! I don't wish the results on anyone.

Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
down.

Mike

[Peter Cole]

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:HCvXa.62346$zy.3531@fed1read06...

> I would really like to be there when someone using Sheldon's braking article
> as gospel really needs to stop NOW! I don't wish the results on anyone.
>
> Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
> situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
> down.

Unless you're in a reduced traction situation, the front brake provides all
the "available braking". Under maximum braking, the rear wheel completely
unloads making it useless. Before that point, it is prone to skid when it
locks. A skidding wheel will go sideways just as happily as forward. Two-brake
panic stops are a great way to get your rear wheel to come around. If riding
sideways is what you're after, it's a good technique.

[Rick Onanian]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:13:39 -0700, Mike S. <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote:
> Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
> situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
> down.

It depends on which emergency situation. In many
pavement-surfaced emergency situations, a properly
adjusted front brake will provide enough braking to
keep all your weight off the rear wheel; in that
situation, the rear brake will not change anything,
unless you've modulated your braking so precisely
that the rear wheel has a small amount of lateral
traction to keep you from sliding out sideways.

That said, I know that when I was test-riding my
road bike downhill in the city at about 30 mph and
a car pulled out from a sidestreet, I didn't blow
time thinking and deciding which brake to use how
much; I just squeezed the hell out of those levers,
which resulted in the front slowing me and the rear
skidding (with no effect, although it could have
had a bad effect).

That was scary, exhilirating, exciting, and quite
fun, and I hope it never happens again.

> Mike
--
Rick Onanian

[Terry Morse]

Mike S. wrote:

> Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
> situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
> down.

The rear brake can also make you crash when it's locked up. This
causes "fishtailing", as the rear wheel tries to swap places with
the front wheel. A locked rear wheel make an inherently unstable
ride.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

[Mike S.]

"Terry Morse" > wrote in message
...
> Mike S. wrote:
>
> > Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
> > situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
> > down.
>
> The rear brake can also make you crash when it's locked up. This
> causes "fishtailing", as the rear wheel tries to swap places with
> the front wheel. A locked rear wheel make an inherently unstable
> ride.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

I dunno about y'all, but in the 15 years of riding, I've never had a serious
case of the bike swapping ends when I'm emergency braking. Last time, I was
off the back of the saddle, arms extended, and grabbing hold of both brakes
as hard as I could.

When I grab just the rear, it can happen. Used to when I was a kid
anyway...

Mike

[Carl Riehm]

Is it possible that the difference between bikes and motorcycles, as far
as front/rear braking is concerned, is that a much larger percentage of
the weight on a bicycle (mainly the weight of the rider) is on the front
wheels? And so there would be a difference between a road bicycle, say,
where there is relatively little of the rider's weight on the seat, and a
hybrid or "comfort" bike, where most of the rider's weight is on the seat?

Carl

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Terry Morse wrote:

> Mike S. wrote:
>
> > Why wouldn't you want to use all the available braking in an emergency
> > situation? It may not do a bunch, but the rear brake does help slow you
> > down.
>
> The rear brake can also make you crash when it's locked up. This
> causes "fishtailing", as the rear wheel tries to swap places with
> the front wheel. A locked rear wheel make an inherently unstable
> ride.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
>

[Robin Hubert]

I can't believe y'all are even thinking about braking. Doesn't eveyone know
about this by now?

My only thoughts (currently) on braking involve my failure to see the
smooth, steel manhole cover, and what the front brake means in such
situations, particularly in regards to healing.


--
Robin Hubert >

[Peter Cole]

"Carl Riehm" > wrote in message
...
> Is it possible that the difference between bikes and motorcycles, as far
> as front/rear braking is concerned, is that a much larger percentage of
> the weight on a bicycle (mainly the weight of the rider) is on the front
> wheels?


Not true.

[Mark Hickey]

"Peter Cole" > wrote:

>"Carl Riehm" > wrote in message
...
>> Is it possible that the difference between bikes and motorcycles, as far
>> as front/rear braking is concerned, is that a much larger percentage of
>> the weight on a bicycle (mainly the weight of the rider) is on the front
>> wheels?
>
>Not true.

What he said. The balance of a motorcycle, road bike and "comfort
bike" are all very similar in terms of weight distribution between the
front and back. If they weren't, they'd be evil handling pigs.

The biggest difference is in the lower center of gravity on a
motorcycle (particularly one like my BMW), allowing me to use a LOT
more front brake than I could get away with on a bicycle with its
relatively high COG (after all, the "engine" averages about 1m/3'
above the pavement).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame