Compact Geometry and Long Distance

[Jason T]

How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at all.

[Jkpoulos7]

>It allows you to have a higher headtube relative to the standover height.
>Thus, it is easier to have higher bars.

But the seatpost has to be longer making the bars relatively lower. Stick with
a traditional geometry for comfort- Compact geometry is just a way for bike
companies to produce three sizes and get as many suckers on them as they can.
A bike 1 cm large or small is easy to deal with but compact frames mwke fitting
much more difficult

[Andrew Lee]

"Steve" > wrote in message news:O9fXa.72576

> "B" > wrote in message
>
> > >How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at
all.
> >
> > It allows you to have a higher headtube relative to the standover
height.
> > Thus, it is easier to have higher bars.
> > B

B, I think that there is a distinction between frames designed as compact
frames that frames that have higher head tubes. Both have sloping top
tubes, but a compact is designed to be smaller ("compact") than a standard
level top tube frame for a given rider size, while the bikes like sloping
top tube Rivendells are not "compact" relative to a level top tube frame.
They are bigger if anything, with similar seat post extension to level top
tube frames, but higher head tubes. Sloping top tubes do no necessarily
equal "compact".


> True in theory, but as built, most compacts simply shorten the seat tube.
> The top tube length is the important measurement and assuming the TT is
> correct for a particular body, you will get plenty of (somewhat useless)
> standover height with a very long seat post and no more additional height
on
> the headtube and handlebar then on a standard diamond frame.
>
> There might be others, but Rivendell and Heron are the only manufacturers
> (I'm not doing much research, mind you) that I'm aware of, that
deliberately
> make a longer head tube that has the top tube rising to the head tube, as
> opposed to a typical compact that has the TT dropping to a shorter seat
> tube. The Riv's and Herons do this so as to get the handlebar up the same
> height of the seat without resorting to a long quill stem (so goes the
> theory). This is a much different theory then found on compact designs
> where you still have to resort to a couple of inches of stack height
spacers
> on the steerer tube (assuming it came un-cut) to get the handlebar up near
> the saddle height.
>
> SB

I wouldn't the Rivendells "compact" frames. They are bigger, not smaller
than standard level top tube frames.

[Mike S.]

Compact geometry is just a way for bike companies to produce three sizes
and get as many suckers on them as they can.


Y'all ever heard of Specialized? Checked out their sizing lately? Compact
frames in 1cm increments!

Mike

[Jkpoulos7]

>
>Y'all ever heard of Specialized? Checked out their sizing lately? Compact
>frames in 1cm increments!
>

Thats's new most are S,M,L, . I still wouldnt want to get beat up on a harsh
aluminum framefor 50+ miles though

[Bruce Graham]

[This followup was posted to rec.bicycles.tech and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]

In article >,
says...
> >
> >Y'all ever heard of Specialized? Checked out their sizing lately? Compact
> >frames in 1cm increments!
> >
>
> Thats's new most are S,M,L, . I still wouldnt want to get beat up on a harsh
> aluminum framefor 50+ miles though
>
I have a compact frame tourer which I find very comfortable over long
distances. It has normal height head tube (ie a real compact frame) so
the seat post is a bit longer which I think softens some of the bumps a
bit. The frame is CroMo. Chainstays are longer than a road bike. Angles
are not extreme and it is stable at 85 Km/hr with panniers. Nothing
fancy or expensive but I'm happy enough.

Bruce Graham

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

jason-<< How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at
all.
>><BR><BR>

If the bike fits ya, none at all...in fact it really does nothing, when
compared to a non-sloping top tube frameset...if both fit ya..It was the stuff
of the finance department...saves some frame makers $$$

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Rick Onanian]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:04:35 -0400, Jason T > wrote:

> How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at all.

It may be a little tougher to fit properly, or at least,
your LBS may not have as much experience fitting compact
frames; and nothing is worse over long distances than a
bad fit.

I can't imagine any other noticable effects. You're likely
to end up with a long seatpost and/or stem, so they could
conceivably have more flex to them than shorter ones; this
could be more or less comfortable for you.

My compact has a rather short wheelbase, and that probably
rides differently than if the wheels were farther apart.

Advantage to the compact: I've never hurt my balls on the
top tube...

--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On 03 Aug 2003 17:22:39 GMT, Pete Hausner > wrote:
>> How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at all.
>
> It doesn't...except perhaps, in decreasing available water bottle
> space/access in smaller sizes.

Good point. My medium Giant TCR2 fits two 28oz standard-shape
water bottles in standard cages, but the one on the seat tube
is a bit tough to get in and out, so I swap them when the one
on the downtube is empty.

> PH
--
Rick Onanian

[NS>]

Jason T wrote:
> How does compact geometry affect comfort over long distances? if at all.
>
>
>
>

I have and try to ride now after a very long hiatus... a Masi Record TT.
The geometry is very compact. The ride is much better than I remembered
it to be. It is extremely responsive to the point of dangerous. The bike
has an extra long seat tube. I ride a 55-56 road frame configured
normally. This bike is a 62cm frame and I have mavic horn bars on it and
for a HB stem I use a Specialized 120mm MB style stem that has about a
125 degree (guessing) compared to a road stem that has about a 75 to 80
degree (guessing) angle. It keeps my fat gut from hurting and makes the
bike rideable to me... It may not be "aesthetically correct" but I like it.

The more my chest is over the handlebars tends shorten the time I like
to be on the bike. So, depending on the length of the TT or ride depends
on the type of HB stem I use on the bike... The bike is 4-5 lbs lighter
than my road bike (both are 12 years old atleast).


IMHO,
NS>

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

terry-<< For comfort, you're better off with a nice steel frame, but only
after several thousand miles when that harsh steel softens up a bit.
But be sure to use only aged tires, the factory fresh ones are also
harsh. And don't tie and solder your wheels, that makes them super
stiff. >><BR><BR>


Be sure to soak your chamois in brine before riding as well...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[mark freedman]

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message >...

> terry-<< For comfort, you're better off with a nice steel frame, but only
> after several thousand miles when that harsh steel softens up a bit.
> But be sure to use only aged tires, the factory fresh ones are also
> harsh. And don't tie and solder your wheels, that makes them super
> stiff. >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Be sure to soak your chamois in brine before riding as well...
>
> Peter Chisholm

I hate to flaunt my ignorance, but is that before or after
you've used it to make your dill pickles ?

if you mess this procedure up, are you then "brine-damaged?"
(perhaps that only applies to Australians)

[Mark Hickey]

DiabloScott > wrote:

>Mark Hickey wrote:
> > >Be sure to soak your chamois in brine before riding as well...

My lawyer insists that I state emphatically that I did NOT write the
above.

>Actually, nothing works better on a chamois than Icy Hot.

It would certainly be "better" at at least one thing I can think of
(two, if you include promoting abstinence). Hey, I just got a great
idea for a line of worry-free teen underwear... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[mike korenchuk]

Bruce Graham > wrote in message >...
> [This followup was posted to rec.bicycles.tech and a copy was sent to the
> cited author.]
>
> In article >,
> says...
> > >
> > >Y'all ever heard of Specialized? Checked out their sizing lately? Compact
> > >frames in 1cm increments!
> > >
> >
> > Thats's new most are S,M,L, . I still wouldnt want to get beat up on a harsh
> > aluminum framefor 50+ miles though
> >
> I have a compact frame tourer which I find very comfortable over long
> distances. It has normal height head tube (ie a real compact frame) so
> the seat post is a bit longer which I think softens some of the bumps a
> bit. The frame is CroMo. Chainstays are longer than a road bike. Angles
> are not extreme and it is stable at 85 Km/hr with panniers. Nothing
> fancy or expensive but I'm happy enough.
>
> Bruce Graham

Who is mfgr of your frame, Bruce?

[Robin Hubert]

"DiabloScott" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Hickey wrote:
> > >Be sure to soak your chamois in brine before riding as well...
>
>
>
> Actually, nothing works better on a chamois than Icy Hot.
>
> It really takes the sting out of narrow HP tires, fat aluminium tubes,
> and magnesium railed saddles when riding over chip seal roads on a
> compact frame with not enough spokes and too many gears. I buy it in
> the big tubs.
>
>

That stuff might be alright but you'll think twice after it gets onto your
soft tissues.
--
Robin Hubert >

[Bruce Graham]

In article >,
says...

> > I have a compact frame tourer which I find very comfortable over long
> > distances. It has normal height head tube (ie a real compact frame) so
> > the seat post is a bit longer which I think softens some of the bumps a
> > bit. The frame is CroMo. Chainstays are longer than a road bike. Angles
> > are not extreme and it is stable at 85 Km/hr with panniers. Nothing
> > fancy or expensive but I'm happy enough.
> >
> > Bruce Graham
>
> Who is mfgr of your frame, Bruce?
>
It is from Taiwan specced by an Australian mfr. "Shogun". I think a
local touring shop "Christies" was behind it.

Model is Alpine GT, a 97 model I think.

Quite a few were sold down here in Oz as economical tourers. About US$600

Earlier models had a conventional level top-tube, lugged frame. By 97 or
so, probably for cost-reasons, the frame was based on a standard city
bike frame with sloping top-tube, but fitted with drop bars.

Chainstays are 440mm. CroMo fork with pannier mounts front and rear.
Canti brakes (replaced by short Tektro BMX V brakes) Shimano (low end
RSX) small triple 46-36-26, STI shifters, and mountain rear drer, 7 sp
11-30 cassette. Has the old Mavic MA rims (36 hole) Taiwan sealed bearing
hubs.

It has been to France, New Zealand and central Australia as well as lots
of local rides and it is now an integral part of me. My wife has an
identical bike and we tour together.

Bruce Graham