I'm skeptical about the benefits of a big wheel specific handle...

[phlegm]

There are too many handle related threads to sift through, so I'm
starting my own. Convince me that I need more than the handle that
comes with my KH saddle, specifically in the context of big wheel
riding. I've "tried" the T7 handle ("tried" meaning that I've ridden
around a few hundred feet), but I didn't feel any benefit for me.

One possible benefit of a special handle could be that it would provide
somewhere to hang a bunch of accessories. Personally, I'd rather
carry a back pack than weighing down my unicycle.

I've heard that it's nice to have a place to rest your hands, but I'm
pretty comfortable resting my hands on the KH handle.

I've heard that it gives you more control, but, for me, most of the
control seems to be best supplied from the lower half of my body. If
I'm straining my arm, then I'm wasting energy that could be used for
riding faster, right?

Are there other reasons I'm missing? Aero-tucking positions?
:rolleyes:


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[Brian MacKenzie]

i like being able to push down on the handle in order to take weight off
my sit bones, also to allow me 2 different seating positions, by
pushing the handles forward away form you, not down away from you, you
can sit much further back on the seat where it is wider. this is a
less comfortable position, but it allows for a nice rest on your more
comfortable position.

you will never see me riding with those big crazy stick out
poles-for-handles though


--
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[Tim Morin]

I'm gonna take down the next deer i see and use it's rack as my handle.


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[Brian MacKenzie]

Tim Morin wrote:
> I'm gonna take down the next deer i see and use it's rack as my handle.



Sounds pretty tough coming from someone who was chased out of the woods
by an owl


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[ntappin]

I think really the only reason to have a big fancy handle is comfort.
Many people find those handles more comfortable, hence why they use
them.

I get along with the kh handle pretty well aswell but I have been
finding it a bit annoying that I don't have much place to put both my
hands at once and the fact that it looks like I'm just crushing my junk
to other people.

I would like something along the lines of a GB4 handle that doesn't
stick out too much but gives a good place for my hands to help support
my body weight.


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ntappin

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[joemarshall]

ntappin wrote:
>
> I would like something along the lines of a GB4 handle that doesn't
> stick out too much but gives a good place for my hands to help support
> my body weight.



I've only ridden a tiny little bit with either, but the T7 handle is so
much nicer than the GB4 in terms of position. The T7 puts you in a nice
riding position, whereas the GB4 just feels odd always. GB4 handles
I've tried have always felt really dodgy, whereas the T7 was instantly
comfortable and in the right place.

To answer the original question, yeah people who ride with the T7
handle do seem to use it to ride lower than normal, in a bit of a tuck
position. All the really fast riders I know ride pretty low down.

If you have one it's a handy place to fit a cycle computer, brake etc.

It's also nice to be able to comfortably put both hands on. I sometimes
ride 2 handed on my KH, but it isn't nice.

If they weren't rubbish and in the way for off-road I'd have a T7
handle for sure.

As for control from the upper or lower body, any fast riding is going
to involve both, but for sure you do use the upper body, for fast
turns, and particularly for general stability, which having a longer
lever like the T7 is supposed to help. It really is designed for fast
road riding (I guess it's designed for the sort of riding Roger Davies
does, which is the fastest of the fast road riding).

But when it comes down to it, you don't need one. I've ridden thousands
of miles, the first couple of thousand on viscount seats with no
handle, the rest on KH seats with the standard handle. I know several
other people who ride really long distances on stock seats too.

Joe


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[johnfoss]

phlegm wrote:
> I've "tried" the T7 handle ("tried" meaning that I've ridden around a
> few hundred feet), but I didn't feel any benefit for me.
>
> Personally, I'd rather carry a back pack than weighing down my
> unicycle.
>
> I've heard that it's nice to have a place to rest your hands, but I'm
> pretty comfortable resting my hands on the KH handle.


Most of the above suggests that you don't ride a lot of miles. Or maybe
you do, but you haven't learned the benefits of "more" handle. A few
hundred feet is enough to tell you if you hate a handle, but not enough
to really get any idea of how you'll like it beyond that. Your comment
about the backpack is what makes me think you don't do lots of miles.
If you do you'll eventually realize you want less weight on your
crotch! This is also where a good two-handed handle can be very useful.

My Coker is set up with three handles. There's the Miyata front
bumper/handle, the Wyganowski "T" handle, and I stuck bar-ends to what
was originally intended as a front bumper. I use the bar-ends for a
slightly "tuck" position for cruising. It also puts my crotch at more
of a bike-like angle on the seat, which probably helps with crotch
endurance. I use the T-handle when I'm going slower or need more
control. And I use the seat handle occasionally, for mounting in
difficult terrain, or for pulling up when riding up the steep stuff. I
really like having the choices.

But if your KH handle is working for you, no worries! If, later on, you
start wondering if you're missing anything, ask one of the guys to let
you put some real miles on something with a handle to get a better
idea.


--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
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of view
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[tomblackwood]

phlegm wrote:
> There are too many handle related threads to sift through, so I'm
> starting my own. Convince me that I need more than the handle that
> comes with my KH saddle. Every good point ever raised I'll counter,
> because I really don't think I need one. I've tried one for a few
> hundred feet and am extrapolating that to hundreds or thousands of
> miles.


You don't need a fancy distance handle, especially if you continue to
limit your rides to a few hundred feet. All those distance riders with
the fancy handles and doo-dads everywhere are just showing off. Dare
to be different!


--
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Tailgate at your own risk...
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[kington99]

phlegm wrote:
>
> One possible benefit of a special handle could be that it would provide
> somewhere to hang a bunch of accessories. Personally, I'd rather
> carry a back pack than weighing down my unicycle.
>



Your brake handle, cycle computer and bell aren't gong to do you much
good in your backpack.


--
kington99

Dave

- what a thoroughly post-modern subversion of the cycling genre -
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[rob.northcott]

joemarshall wrote:
> (T7 is) really is designed for fast road riding (I guess it's designed
> for the sort of riding Roger Davies does, which is the fastest of the
> fast road riding).


But in the pictures of Roger racing at Warwick he's holding the KH
handle.
(sorry - I'm just in a stirring mood at the moment - I've never used
any handle except the KH so I'm not really qualified to comment).

Rob


--
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[semach.the.monkey]

I was of the same opinion as yourself until recently. I've covered
somewhere around 2500 to 3000 miles on my 29er all without a handle. I
did use the plastic handle a little bit, but probably less than 10% of
the time.

So, when I came to order my new Nimbus I wasn't going to bother with
the T7 handle. However, it looks good, and is somewhere to mount a
cycle computer, so as it was cheaper to order it at the same time as
the rest of the uni I got one.

And I wouldn't be without it! I use it all the time now. My left hand
is on it for about 90% of the time, and I often ride with both hands on
it - something that I never did before. It's in just the right place
to be very comfortable, both for my hands, and for shifting my weight
around on the saddle. It's also very handy for mounting stuff on, such
as lights, comuter, brake handle etc. The rear part isn't quite so
handy, but it does make pushing it around a bit easier.

I can't say that a large handle is going to be right for you or not,
but by using mine I know that it's right for me.

STM


--
semach.the.monkey
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[Hazmat]

On my coker which has a T7 handle i've seem to be getting faster speeds
out of it. :eek:

*B4 T7 my speeds would range from*
20-30km/h

*With the T7 handle* (this is because of me leaning and wearing my
havoc helmet which might be improving my aerodynamics :D)
30-50km/h

I don't know if this is true but my speeds have most definitely
increased since i got the T7 version coker.


--
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1 weird and unusual greek cypriot australian destined to be different :D
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[steveyo]

Hazmat wrote:
> On my coker which has a T7 handle i've seem to be getting faster speeds
> out of it. :eek:
>
> B4 T7 MY SPEEDS WOULD RANGE FROM
> 20-30km/h
>
> *With the T7 handle* (this is because of me leaning and wearing my
> havoc helmet which might be improving my aerodynamics :D)
> 30-50km/h

50 kph? 31 mph? Is that figure from a cycle computer?

If you're not riding a guni, that's almost 300 rpm. Were you coasting,
or can you really move your legs that fast?


--
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steveyo

...like having your own personal rollercoaster...

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[Hazmat]

steveyo wrote:
> 50 kph? 31 mph? Is that figure from a cycle computer?
>
> If you're not riding a guni, that's almost 300 rpm. Were you coasting,
> or can you really move your legs that fast?


When you say GUNI, are you referring to the Sclumphf?? and i was riding
on a slight downhill. It was reading it from a cycle computer from what
i remmember that i achieved those speeds. :confused: :D


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[iridemymuni]

GUNI is any form of gearud unicycle.

so basically you werent using a GUNI, which means your were doing about
300 rpm

?


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ive got:

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[Hazmat]

Maybe my computer read it wrong?? Unless i was coasting which might
explain it. :confused: :confused: 300rpm is way too much 4 me. :eek:


--
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[redwelly]

rob.northcott wrote:
> But in the pictures of Roger racing at Warwick he's holding the KH
> handle.



Longer T7 style handles give a great position for cruising, but as John
Foss said, for tight control you still want to use the seat handle.
Warwick was very twisty, and the longer handle wasn't much advantage.

My homemade handle is pretty much like the T7 now (made with alu tube
and bar-ends), and I find it a good improvement from only having the KH
handle. Before that though, I'd done most of my 36er riding (inc. End
to End) with just a KH handle, which I held with both hands mostly.
The longer handle thing felt odd to start with, but I wouldn't ever
choose to go without a longer handle on the road now. Definitely the
way to go.

Though personally I don't think it enables any more speed - it's just
more comfy, at speed or otherwise.

Sam


--
redwelly

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sometimes you feel like throwing up, so it's really nice to be able to
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[rob.northcott]

redwelly wrote:
> for tight control you still want to use the seat handle. Warwick was
> very twisty, and the longer handle wasn't much advantage.


I remember Roger giving his reasons in the original thread... I was
just being deliberately annoying :o


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[phlegm]

To answer a few of the replies...

I guess I avoid long flat sections of road, which are what cause most
of the discomfort. When I do ride them, I just push down on the KH
handle every so often. Also, I find a higher cadence not only gets me
through the flats faster, it also seems to reduce the pressure on the
sit bones.

For the record, I haven't ridden very far yet. My farthest rides have
been around 25 miles long, but I have been planning out longer local
routes that I will be trying out soon.

As for less weight on my crotch, I only weigh 140 lbs., and my water
pack is probably only 7 or 8 lbs. full. Compared to carrying a pack
leaning over when riding a bicycle, carrying it sitting up straight
doesn't seem bad at all. I guess if I were carrying more gear for a
solo multi-day ride, a pannier of some sort would be nice.

My brake handle works great mounted on the KH rail adapter. I keep my
"cycling computer" in my head, and my larynx makes a fine bell. ;)


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[mscalisi]

I recently switched from a GB4 handle to the T7. Before I put at least a
couple dozen miles on it, I distinctly DID NOT like the T7. I
definitely think you need to spend more time with a distance handle
before you recognize the benefits.

Now, I'm happy I made the switch. It definitely allows for a bit more
of a tuck, more space for accessories, and a number of hand positions.


I'm happy to have access to the KH seat handle, which I did not have
when I had the G4 since it replaces the seat handle. The seat handle is
definitely what I use for tight control, but for distance, there are a
few different hand positions I use on the T7. I recently did a ride up
Mt. Diablo, and I noticed on the decent, my left hand gravitated toward
the seat handle for tight control while my right hand was on the T7. I
was thinking this would be nice when i finally install my brake since I
won't have to sacrifice tight control to grab the brake handle (which
clearly wants to be installed on the right prong of the T7.

That being said, going touring handle-less has its benefits. Less
weight, and less stuff to get in the way. If you do a good mix of
off-road and only moderate distance, I'd stick with just the freeride
saddle.


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><> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><
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[mscalisi]

phlegm wrote:
>
> For the record, I haven't ridden very far yet. My farthest rides have
> been around 25 miles long, but I have been planning out longer local
> routes that I will be trying out soon.
>
> As for less weight on my crotch, I only weigh 140 lbs., and my water
> pack is probably only 7 or 8 lbs. full. Compared to carrying a pack
> leaning over when riding a bicycle, carrying it sitting up straight
> doesn't seem bad at all. I guess if I were carrying more gear for a
> solo multi-day ride, a pannier of some sort would be nice.
>
> My brake handle works great mounted on the KH rail adapter. I keep my
> "cycling computer" in my head, and my larynx makes a fine bell. ;)



I think of the gear-carrying aspect sort of a value add, but not a
primary reason for going with a handle. Although I'm quite happy with
where it allows me to place a bell (just under the seat, behind the
handle). Generally speaking, anything I attach to it will probably get
broken (on my G4, I went through multiple lights, computers and bells).
For a computer, I now use a wrist-top GPS (when I care to track
statistics). I'll still use a camelback, but I like the water bottle
holder since you can use it for an alternative beverage (gatorade,
coffee, beer).

I'm not convinced you actually use your larynx as a bell.

The value of handles really comes into play on multi-day tours. You
become grateful for the different places to put your hands and
different ways to shift your weight.


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[phlegm]

mscalisi wrote:
> I'm not convinced you actually use your larynx as a bell.



Ding! :p


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[hans]

I like my T7 handle. On my usual training ride (25km) I normally do not
dismount since I have the T7. I have no discomfort from sitting on
these short rides.

The part that extents to the rear is not usefull. I banged the inside
of my thights with it at the beginning when mounting and dismounting.
Now I can handle it, but I still think it is useless.

Hans


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[johnfoss]

phlegm wrote:
> I find a higher cadence not only gets me through the flats faster, it
> also seems to reduce the pressure on the sit bones.


Me too. The best way to reduce saddle soreness is to ride as fast as
you possibly can. If you're doing this successfully, you'll be too out
of breath or otherwise strained to notice any saddle discomfort. :)
Of course this has its limits, and probably applies better to races
than to multi-day tours.



> Compared to carrying a pack leaning over when riding a bicycle, carrying
> it sitting up straight doesn't seem bad at all.


Doesn't it weigh the same regardless? But if comfort isn't a problem,
no need to worry. I do like having a bottle cage on my Wyganowski
handle also. Though I use a Camelbak for longer rides, if it's only a
couple of hours or so, a bottle is enough. No sweatty back!


--
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John Foss
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