I NEED INCREDIBLY STRONG RIMS! I hear mixed reviews and don't know what to think; your help?

[Syd]

I'm VERY hard on rims, that's inevitably going to be my downfall... In
the meantime, I'm looking for a set of rims for my Norco (150x12 and
20mm front) that will at least tolerate some of the abuse. I've put
together a little list including Industry Nine FR/DH's, Atomlab Pimps,
DT swiss FR/DH's (w/440 hubs), DT swiss FR 2350's, Azonic outlaws, and
Mavic Deemax. I'm afraid of the Outlaw's being cheezy, and I've heard
things about the Deemax's having pawls break and the rear hubs
exploding; but there are mixed reviews on the two wheelsets. This may
be specuation, but the Pimps seem like the strongest, being 32mm and
all. All the rims have something I like, most of all I like the way
the spokes lace into the Industry Nine's. Any suggestions for a rim
that's truly "tough as hell"?

[Ride-A-Lot]

Syd wrote:
> I'm VERY hard on rims, that's inevitably going to be my downfall... In
> the meantime, I'm looking for a set of rims for my Norco (150x12 and
> 20mm front) that will at least tolerate some of the abuse. I've put
> together a little list including Industry Nine FR/DH's, Atomlab Pimps,
> DT swiss FR/DH's (w/440 hubs), DT swiss FR 2350's, Azonic outlaws, and
> Mavic Deemax. I'm afraid of the Outlaw's being cheezy, and I've heard
> things about the Deemax's having pawls break and the rear hubs
> exploding; but there are mixed reviews on the two wheelsets. This may
> be specuation, but the Pimps seem like the strongest, being 32mm and
> all. All the rims have something I like, most of all I like the way
> the spokes lace into the Industry Nine's. Any suggestions for a rim
> that's truly "tough as hell"?
>

You're gonna cry when those I-9's bust apart. If you are that hard I
wouldn't spend that kind of $$$ on a flashy wheel like I-9. I have a
similar problem with rims (smashing into trees and rocks doesn't help).
Time and time again, the rim that has never let me down has been the
Sun Rhyno Lite.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

[Slack]

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:18:57 -0700, Syd > wrote:

> I'm VERY hard on rims, that's inevitably going to be my downfall... In
> the meantime, I'm looking for a set of rims for my Norco (150x12 and
> 20mm front) that will at least tolerate some of the abuse. I've put
> together a little list including Industry Nine FR/DH's, Atomlab Pimps,
> DT swiss FR/DH's (w/440 hubs), DT swiss FR 2350's, Azonic outlaws, and
> Mavic Deemax. I'm afraid of the Outlaw's being cheezy, and I've heard
> things about the Deemax's having pawls break and the rear hubs
> exploding; but there are mixed reviews on the two wheelsets. This may
> be specuation, but the Pimps seem like the strongest, being 32mm and
> all. All the rims have something I like, most of all I like the way
> the spokes lace into the Industry Nine's. Any suggestions for a rim
> that's truly "tough as hell"?
>


Call Go-RIde. Tell them your situation [you're a DH hack] and then let
Krispy or V-dub build you a set.... problem sovled.
--
Slack

[wizardB]

Syd wrote:
> I'm VERY hard on rims, that's inevitably going to be my downfall... In
> the meantime, I'm looking for a set of rims for my Norco (150x12 and
> 20mm front) that will at least tolerate some of the abuse. I've put
> together a little list including Industry Nine FR/DH's, Atomlab Pimps,
> DT swiss FR/DH's (w/440 hubs), DT swiss FR 2350's, Azonic outlaws, and
> Mavic Deemax. I'm afraid of the Outlaw's being cheezy, and I've heard
> things about the Deemax's having pawls break and the rear hubs
> exploding; but there are mixed reviews on the two wheelsets. This may
> be specuation, but the Pimps seem like the strongest, being 32mm and
> all. All the rims have something I like, most of all I like the way
> the spokes lace into the Industry Nine's. Any suggestions for a rim
> that's truly "tough as hell"?
>
For XC mavic XM819 or XC717 depending on what tires you ride and for
free riding EX721 or EX325 again depending on tires.Also you might want
to look at the Hope Hugi hubs they are very well built.

[Paladin]

On Mar 13, 8:18 pm, "Syd" > wrote:
> I'm VERY hard on rims, that's inevitably going to be my downfall... In
> the meantime, I'm looking for a set of rims for my Norco (150x12 and
> 20mm front) that will at least tolerate some of the abuse. I've put
> together a little list including Industry Nine FR/DH's, Atomlab Pimps,
> DT swiss FR/DH's (w/440 hubs), DT swiss FR 2350's, Azonic outlaws, and
> Mavic Deemax. I'm afraid of the Outlaw's being cheezy, and I've heard
> things about the Deemax's having pawls break and the rear hubs
> exploding; but there are mixed reviews on the two wheelsets. This may
> be specuation, but the Pimps seem like the strongest, being 32mm and
> all. All the rims have something I like, most of all I like the way
> the spokes lace into the Industry Nine's. Any suggestions for a rim
> that's truly "tough as hell"?


You might try some well-hand-built Deemax.

CDB

[pete fagerlin]

Ride-A-Lot wrote:

> You're gonna cry when those I-9's bust apart. If you are that hard I
> wouldn't spend that kind of $$$ on a flashy wheel like I-9. I have a
> similar problem with rims (smashing into trees and rocks doesn't help).
> Time and time again, the rim that has never let me down has been the
> Sun Rhyno Lite.

You're confused about I9 wheelsets. You can match their hubs
to the rim (key word contained in the OP)of your choice. While
the color choices make for some potentially flashy wheelsets,
their hub and spoke design is burly.

[JD]

On Mar 13, 6:23 pm, Ride-A-Lot > wrote:
> Time and time again, the rim that has never let me down has been the
> Sun Rhyno Lite.


Those are crap. Angry Man pulled spokes through the eyelets on one
and they have tolerance issues that can either make a tire hard to put
on, or come unseated.

JD

[JD]

On Mar 13, 7:59 pm, Slack > wrote:
> Call Go-RIde.


I wouldn't bother with cutting a fart at those boneheads. They are
unimpressive at best.

JD

[Syd]

> For XC mavic XM819 or XC717 depending on what tires you ride and for
> free riding EX721 or EX325 again depending on tires.Also you might want
> to look at the Hope Hugi hubs they are very well built.

Thanks wizardB, that's somewhat helpful... but I'm talking something
that is bombproof

[wizardB]

Syd wrote:
>> For XC mavic XM819 or XC717 depending on what tires you ride and for
>> free riding EX721 or EX325 again depending on tires.Also you might want
>> to look at the Hope Hugi hubs they are very well built.
>
> Thanks wizardB, that's somewhat helpful... but I'm talking something
> that is bombproof
>
The EX325 on a Hugi hub Built with gage spokes and brass nipples is
about as Bomb proof as you can make a wheel.IMHO

[pete fagerlin]

wizardB wrote:

> The EX325 on a Hugi hub Built with gage spokes and brass nipples is
> about as Bomb proof as you can make a wheel.IMHO

What are "gage" spokes?

[dabac[_5_]]

pete fagerlin Wrote:
> wizardB wrote:
>
> > The EX325 on a Hugi hub Built with gage spokes and brass nipples is
> > about as Bomb proof as you can make a wheel.IMHO
>
> What are "gage" spokes?

He's probably talking about gauge, which is the spoke's thickness.

Quote from 'Sheldon Brown'
(http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes) "-U.S./British 13
gauge is 2.3 mm
U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm
U.S./British 15 gauge is 1.8 mm
U.S./British 16 gauge is 1.6 mm-

Straight gauge have the same thickness all over, gauge 14, while butted
spokes are thinner in the middle. ) Straight gauge is cheapest, makes
stiff wheels and are easy to build. Butted spokes makes for more
durable wheels and can be trickier to build.

What kind of gauge he's talking about remains to be seen...


--
dabac

[wizardB]

dabac wrote:
> pete fagerlin Wrote:
>> wizardB wrote:
>>
>>> The EX325 on a Hugi hub Built with gage spokes and brass nipples is
>>> about as Bomb proof as you can make a wheel.IMHO
>> What are "gage" spokes?
>
> He's probably talking about gauge, which is the spoke's thickness.
>
> Quote from 'Sheldon Brown'
> (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes) "-U.S./British 13
> gauge is 2.3 mm
> U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm
> U.S./British 15 gauge is 1.8 mm
> U.S./British 16 gauge is 1.6 mm-
>
> Straight gauge have the same thickness all over, gauge 14, while butted
> spokes are thinner in the middle. ) Straight gauge is cheapest, makes
> stiff wheels and are easy to build. Butted spokes makes for more
> durable wheels and can be trickier to build.
>
> What kind of gauge he's talking about remains to be seen...
>
>
I was talking about 14 gauge 2.0mm it's pretty much the standard wheel
build here on the North Shore and the wheel take the rocks , root and
air just fine.

[pete fagerlin]

wizardB wrote:

> I was talking about 14 gauge 2.0mm it's pretty much the standard wheel
> build here on the North Shore and the wheel take the rocks , root and
> air just fine.

If you're looking for a "bombproof" wheel then a straight
gauge spoke (with a traditional "j" bend") is not the best
choice, nor "as bomb proof as you can make a wheel.

[Mark Hickey]

pete fagerlin > wrote:

>wizardB wrote:
>
>> I was talking about 14 gauge 2.0mm it's pretty much the standard wheel
>> build here on the North Shore and the wheel take the rocks , root and
>> air just fine.
>
>If you're looking for a "bombproof" wheel then a straight
>gauge spoke (with a traditional "j" bend") is not the best
>choice, nor "as bomb proof as you can make a wheel.

I'll pile on and agree with Pete... the butted spokes are actually
stronger in all the ways that matter. Straight gauge spokes
concentrate the stress at the elbow and base of the threads, where on
a butted spoke, it tends to be distributed along the thinner section
as well. They'll also be a bit easier on your rims. The fact they're
lighter and more aero is just icing on the cake.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

[pete fagerlin]

Mark Hickey wrote:
> I'll pile on and agree with Pete... the butted spokes are actually
> stronger in all the ways that matter. Straight gauge spokes
> concentrate the stress at the elbow and base of the threads, where on
> a butted spoke, it tends to be distributed along the thinner section
> as well. They'll also be a bit easier on your rims. The fact they're
> lighter and more aero is just icing on the cake.

Or get a wheel that uses straight gauge spokes from Industry
Nine that address all of the shortcomings of "traditional"
straight gauge spokes (as described above).

[dabac[_6_]]

pete fagerlin Wrote:
> Mark Hickey wrote:
> > I'll pile on and agree with Pete... the butted spokes are actually
> > stronger in all the ways that matter. Straight gauge spokes
> > concentrate the stress at the elbow and base of the threads, where
> on
> > a butted spoke, it tends to be distributed along the thinner section
> > as well. They'll also be a bit easier on your rims. The fact
> they're
> > lighter and more aero is just icing on the cake.
>
> Or get a wheel that uses straight gauge spokes from Industry
> Nine that address all of the shortcomings of "traditional"
> straight gauge spokes (as described above).

As long as we don't HOW his rims have broken in the past there really
isn't much point in discussing the various pros and cons of different
spokes. There isn't a spoke in the world that'll protect a wheel from
death due to direct impact. OTOH if they've been cracking around the
nipples, then it's another question and maybe going to butted spokes
would help him.


--
dabac

[Mark Hickey]

dabac > wrote:

>pete fagerlin Wrote:
>> Mark Hickey wrote:
>> > I'll pile on and agree with Pete... the butted spokes are actually
>> > stronger in all the ways that matter. Straight gauge spokes
>> > concentrate the stress at the elbow and base of the threads, where
>> on
>> > a butted spoke, it tends to be distributed along the thinner section
>> > as well. They'll also be a bit easier on your rims. The fact
>> they're
>> > lighter and more aero is just icing on the cake.
>>
>> Or get a wheel that uses straight gauge spokes from Industry
>> Nine that address all of the shortcomings of "traditional"
>> straight gauge spokes (as described above).
>
>As long as we don't HOW his rims have broken in the past there really
>isn't much point in discussing the various pros and cons of different
>spokes. There isn't a spoke in the world that'll protect a wheel from
>death due to direct impact. OTOH if they've been cracking around the
>nipples, then it's another question and maybe going to butted spokes
>would help him.

Yep - you're right... I didn't really make clear that a spoke is
pretty much irrelevant once the rim is deflected to the point there's
no longer any tension on it, so the spoke's not going to prevent
flat-spotting the rim. There might be very slight localized
differences in the way a particular portion of the rim responds to an
impact due to adjacent spoke loading, but I think it's fair to say
that it's not gonna make a whole lot of difference in the real world.

The effect I was (vaguely) discussing was the cracking of rims around
the spoke holes (which is less likely on a wheel built with butted
spokes).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

[Syd]

I already use butted spokes, so what's the take on a set of Hope Hugi
hubs?