Velocity Aerohead vs. Razor

[thejen12]

Hi all,

I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.

I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
(That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
saddle.

Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?

One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

thanks!!

Jenn

[www.BFWG.net]

"thejen12" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn
>

I'd use AeroHead & OC,
28 spoke rear / 24 front
and if your budget allows, CX-Ray spokes by Sapim
Large tires and/or lower air pressure make more difference than anything
else in ride feel, WITHOUT affecting efficiency or speed.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn

At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than rims
when it comes to comfort.

I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those options.
I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
"race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No reason
not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your weight;
you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you toward
larger (heavier) tires?

Have fun!

Joseph

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 15, 10:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn

Rims have no effect on comfort, tires do. I would build a set of
Aeroheads for you, 28/2 cross Revolution spokes in the front and 28/3
cross 14/15 in the rear using the OC rim. Single eyelets for the
razor, not a bad rim but the builder MUST adhere to the max tension of
100 KGF or pulling an eyelet out is a real possibility.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 8:54 am, "
> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > thanks!!
>
> > Jenn
>
> At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
> the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
> will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
> overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than rims
> when it comes to comfort.
>
> I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those options.
> I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
> "race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
> climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No reason
> not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your weight;
> you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
> risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
> overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you toward
> larger (heavier) tires?
>
> Have fun!
>
> Joseph

I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.

If you are replacing your wheels it only makes sense to replace them
with better ones, or else what's the point? If it was just a matter of
comfort, tires will do the trick, but if you want more performance (in
other words, speed) then new wheeels may be the ticket.

In my opinion, first determine how much you want to spend, then get
the most aero wheels you can get for that price, and weight comes a
distant 2nd.

Since you are looking at Velocity rims, lets compare Deep-V's to
Aerohead's. The Deep-V's will be about 200g heavier for a set. This is
a miniscule amount that will give at most 2-3 seconds advantage to the
Aerohead's up a 5km 8% grade. Not much. However, aero rims like the
Deep-V's can give an extra .5 km/h advantage on the flat. Even using a
more conservative .25 estimate, this means the Deep-V's are ahead by
15 seconds on 5km of flat road. What this means in practice is you can
more easily hold the wheel for a larger rider cruising on the flats,
and still drop them on the climbs!

For comfort, the Michelin P2R's in 25 are more like 27 or 28 on my
Aerohead's. Make sure you have the clearance, not just in width, but
height. That is where I have issues with them. At 125lbs, you could
probably run 70psi in those 25's. Talk about a cushy ride!

Joseph

[daveornee[_46_]]

Wrote:
> On Apr 16, 8:54 am, "
> > wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> >
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is
> lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has
> eyelets.
> >
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also
> like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death
> Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
> >
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well?
> Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
> >
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared
> to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot
> (comfort-wise)?
> >
> > > thanks!!
> >
> > > Jenn
> >
> > At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
> > the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
> > will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
> > overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than
> rims
> > when it comes to comfort.
> >
> > I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those
> options.
> > I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
> > "race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
> > climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No
> reason
> > not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your
> weight;
> > you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
> > risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
> > overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you
> toward
> > larger (heavier) tires?
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > Joseph
>
> I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.
>
> If you are replacing your wheels it only makes sense to replace them
> with better ones, or else what's the point? If it was just a matter of
> comfort, tires will do the trick, but if you want more performance (in
> other words, speed) then new wheeels may be the ticket.
>
> In my opinion, first determine how much you want to spend, then get
> the most aero wheels you can get for that price, and weight comes a
> distant 2nd.
>
> Since you are looking at Velocity rims, lets compare Deep-V's to
> Aerohead's. The Deep-V's will be about 200g heavier for a set. This is
> a miniscule amount that will give at most 2-3 seconds advantage to the
> Aerohead's up a 5km 8% grade. Not much. However, aero rims like the
> Deep-V's can give an extra .5 km/h advantage on the flat. Even using a
> more conservative .25 estimate, this means the Deep-V's are ahead by
> 15 seconds on 5km of flat road. What this means in practice is you can
> more easily hold the wheel for a larger rider cruising on the flats,
> and still drop them on the climbs!
>
> For comfort, the Michelin P2R's in 25 are more like 27 or 28 on my
> Aerohead's. Make sure you have the clearance, not just in width, but
> height. That is where I have issues with them. At 125lbs, you could
> probably run 70psi in those 25's. Talk about a cushy ride!
>
> Joseph
I am with Joseph on this one.
While you are at it consider some aero spokes like Sapim CX-Ray. They
are light, aero, but expensive. You could cerainly go with 24 (or 20)
front with the Deep V rim.
I also think the Michelin P2R's in 25, if they fit, are the ticket for
comfort... again run ~70 PSI.


--
daveornee

[A Muzi]

thejen12 wrote:
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
front will be durable for you.

After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.

p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
rigid in the vertical.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Donga]

On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi > wrote:
> thejen12 wrote:
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> front will be durable for you.
>
> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> rigid in the vertical.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

Donga

[Paul Kopit]

On 17 Apr 2007 04:44:10 -0700, Donga
> wrote:

>Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
>put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
>presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
>my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
>figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
>Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
>that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

OC is absolutely no gimmick. In my experience, any V shaped rim is
more difficult to straighten than a box shaped one. I regularly ride
an OC that had a dent on flat side but it took more work to get it
flat again. Perhaps it is because the alloy they use is less
maleable. I have not found the Velocity rims to dent more easilly
than other designs or brands.

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 17, 5:44 am, Donga > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi > wrote:
>
>
>
> > thejen12 wrote:
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
>
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > front will be durable for you.
>
> > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > rigid in the vertical.
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> Donga

If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
raise tension on the left will help.

'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
results.

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:

I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
> results.
>
I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?

Thanks, Jenn

[Greg Evans]

Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:

> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does
> not compute, what do you mean?

I'm guessing what he (Donga) means is a road reflector. He said:

>> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I
>> have put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them
>> away. I presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and
>> yes I do pump my tires!

I'm reading that to mean that he presumes that a glancing blow on a
road reflector dented his rims.

Greg

--
My Photos-
http://www.gsevans.com/photography/

My Blog-
http://www.gsevans.com/blog/

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> Thanks, Jenn

I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
"normal" long stem valves.

Joseph

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 5:44 am, Donga > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi > wrote:
>
> > > thejen12 wrote:
> > > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > > saddle.
>
> > > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > > front will be durable for you.
>
> > > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > > rigid in the vertical.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> > put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> > presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> > my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> > figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> > Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> > that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> > Donga
>
> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
> raise tension on the left will help.

I have 2 sets of road wheels I use regularly. One a 36 hole Aerohead/
OC setup, the other a 32 hole Deep-V setup. There is a defininite
difference between the two which I attribute to the greater tension
difference in the non-OC Deep-V. Occasionaly over just the right shape
dip, the Deep-V wheel will flex in a way that I feel it "sproing"
momentarily. This never happens on the Aerohead-OC wheel. Admittedly,
the Aerohead wheels were professionally build by folks who know what
they are doing (A contributor to this thread!) and the Deep-V's were
built by me, but I don't think that is the cause. So I am a firm
beliver in the idea that more even side-to-side tension is a good
thing. My zero-dish (ie same left right tension) track wheels (which I
built) also never "sproing" over dips.

Joseph



> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
> compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
> results.

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 10:04 am, "
> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> > I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> > I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> > exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> > to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> > that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> > Thanks, Jenn
>
> I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
> stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
> that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
> "normal" long stem valves.
>
> Joseph

Hmm, I use the Michelin A1 Aircomp tubes with 36mm valves. Does
anyone have experience using something like that with the Aerohead
OC? (Joseph, you should mail order some of these if you can't find
them locally!) I really don't want to switch to longer valve-stems,
partly because I recently bought a "life-time" supply of these tubes,
and partly because if I run out on the road and need a spare tube,
chances are it will have the traditional short valve-stem.

Jenn

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 7:36 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:04 am, "
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> > > I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> > > I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> > > exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> > > to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> > > that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> > > Thanks, Jenn
>
> > I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
> > stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
> > that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
> > "normal" long stem valves.
>
> > Joseph
>
> Hmm, I use the Michelin A1 Aircomp tubes with 36mm valves. Does
> anyone have experience using something like that with the Aerohead
> OC? (Joseph, you should mail order some of these if you can't find
> them locally!) I really don't want to switch to longer valve-stems,
> partly because I recently bought a "life-time" supply of these tubes,
> and partly because if I run out on the road and need a spare tube,
> chances are it will have the traditional short valve-stem.
>
> Jenn

Actually, I use the Michelin A2's on my OC wheels with the 25 P2R
tires. The short 36mm stem works fine with my floor pump, and with my
SKS Airboy mini-pump. I like the A2's because they are big and I like
the smooth (as opposed to threaded) stem.

Around here chances are it will be long out on the road!

Joseph

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 10:47 am, "
> wrote:
> Actually, I use the Michelin A2's on my OC wheels with the 25 P2R
> tires. The short 36mm stem works fine with my floor pump, and with my
> SKS Airboy mini-pump. I like the A2's because they are big and I like
> the smooth (as opposed to threaded) stem.
>
> Joseph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh, good point! My experiment with wider tires (25 P2R and 25 GP4000)
is very new. So far they are working okay with the A1s, though. But
A2s may be the order of the day if I ever run out of A1s (I hardly
ever get flats).

Jenn

[Jay Beattie]

On Apr 17, 4:44 am, Donga > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > thejen12 wrote:
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
>
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > front will be durable for you.
>
> > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > rigid in the vertical.
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> Donga- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not a gimmick, but also not the most durable rim for a heavy rider
(like me). They are light and not very resistant to sidewall damage.
OTOH, you get much more even spoke tension; they stay true, and there
is less of a likelihood of spoke hole cracking due to over
tensioning. I am going to start hunting around for an OC rim that is
more stout, although OC is not as important in a stout rim that can
handle the high right side tension without cracking, etc.. -- Jay
Beattie.

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 15, 10:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

I guess there is at least a consensus here that any wheel does not
deflect enough radially to make a difference. Tires can make a
noticeable difference though. Ideally you want a supple tire with low
rolling resistance that you would inflate to fairly low pressures
(~80psi). Pro2s are a good tire and have low rolling resistance, but
the 25mm model apparently has thicker tread and possibly a heavier
casing. At your weight I'd recommend the 23mm model... which is really
~24mm. An even better option would be the Vittoria Corsa in 23mm.
Conti tires have poor rolling resistance.

Tubes... for a competition use latex tubes. Vredestein and Michelin
make good ones. They are good for about a 10% reduction in rolling
resistance and improve the ride according to some sensitive folks.

On Apr 16, 8:50 am, "
> wrote:
> I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.

I agree that if you are looking for the best performance, aerodynamics
would have a bigger effect than anything else. You pay a big weight
penalty though with rims like Deep Vs and DT 1.2s... which actually
weight ~560g each... or about 150g more apiece compared to Aeroheads.
And for someone who weighs only 125lb that just doesn't seem right to
me. Especially when you can get Niobium 30 rims which have a similar
profile to a Deep V but weigh 100g less each. I've been riding a set
of these with CX-Rays 18f 21r for 2,000 miles now and they are as true
as new, and seem plenty solid for my 165lb. I think 18f 24r would be a
better build for most people though (better long term durability).
With light hubs like White Industries H1, the weight of the wheels is
only 1425g, and they would be as aerodynamic as any aluminum rimmed
wheel.

Joseph! If your Deep V wheels are making funny noises over dips, your
spoke tension is probably too low... or maybe uneven. Have you checked
it?

On Apr 17, 9:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo >
wrote:
> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
> raise tension on the left will help.

OC rims are a good idea if you are using a shallow rim, but if you use
a deeper aero rim (non OC) the wheel can be even stronger. For one
thing the aero rim is radially stiffer so the cyclic spoke
detensioning is less. The problem you are solving with the OC rim is
the *low* tension on the NDS and the tendency for those spokes to go
slack... not tension imbalance. A deeper rim can take a higher spoke
tension, so you can end up with higher NDS tension than with an OC rim
like the Aerohead. Or you can even lace them triplet style with only
half as many spokes on the NDS, and end up even tension side to side.

To "thejen12", the most important thing to consider in your new wheels
is a good build... it can make a big difference in how trouble free
the wheels are and how long they last.

[A Muzi]

>> thejen12 wrote:
>>> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
>>> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
>>> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>>> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
>>> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
>>> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
>>> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
>>> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
>>> saddle.
>>> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
>>> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
>>> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>>> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
>>> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
>>> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
>>> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

> A Muzi > wrote:
>> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
>> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
>> front will be durable for you.
>>
>> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
>> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>>
>> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
>> rigid in the vertical.

Donga wrote:
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

Well, we like them. As in all things cycling, opinions vary because
people have different criteria for each decision.

The excessive right side tension of our previous favorite clincher, the
Campagnolo Montreal, was annoying and we felt unsure of the wheel's
longevity with the left spokes dangling. (On a symmetric rim, it's
something like 65% of right) Spoke tension differential is something we
observe directly whereas although some riders dent light clincher rims,
most riders get suitably good mileage.

We like the seam finish - they arrive round - as well as excellent
service. Here, we get a Velocity package 4 days a week with rims for
that day's wheels. Even with a huge inventory the product variety now is
daunting so we need service. Of course, if we were in Alaska or Oregon
or Maine we wouldn't get the prompt delivery we've come to expect.

No, you are not the only rider with rim dents on a modern 400g clincher.
You can always change to tubulars if clincher rim dents are a problem !
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 17, 9:24 am, thejen12 > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> Thanks, Jenn

Common 48mm valves work fine

[RS]

In article . com>,
says...
>
>
>On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
>> results.
>>
>I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
>exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
>to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
>that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
>Thanks, Jenn
>
>
You can always use long-stem tubes but I have no problem using standard
length tubes with my set of AH wheels - oc in rear.

[Donga]

On Apr 18, 1:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 5:44 am, Donga > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi > wrote:
>
> > > thejen12 wrote:
> > > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > > saddle.
>
> > > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > > front will be durable for you.
>
> > > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > > rigid in the vertical.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> > put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> > presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> > my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> > figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> > Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> > that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> > Donga
>
> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
> raise tension on the left will help.
>
> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
> compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
> results.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cateye - a reflective device around three inches square and half inch
high, that are glued onto the road to enhance lane markings. Easily
struck when riding in bunches.

[Donga]

On Apr 18, 2:56 am, Greg Evans > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> > 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does
> > not compute, what do you mean?
>
> I'm guessing what he (Donga) means is a road reflector. He said:
>
> >> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I
> >> have put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them
> >> away. I presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and
> >> yes I do pump my tires!
>
> I'm reading that to mean that he presumes that a glancing blow on a
> road reflector dented his rims.
>
> Greg
>
> --
> My Photos-http://www.gsevans.com/photography/
>
> My Blog-http://www.gsevans.com/blog/

Yes - the name 'cateye' is used for these in Australia.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 1:55 am, Ron Ruff > wrote:
[snip!]
> Joseph! If your Deep V wheels are making funny noises over dips, your
> spoke tension is probably too low... or maybe uneven. Have you checked
> it?

Yes, both during the build and a few times afterwards. As recently as
20 seconds ago!

I tried very hard to get the spokes as evenly tensioned as possible.
Right now with 110psi in the tires, the Deep-V drive side tension is
99kgf on more or less all the spokes. (Park tensiometer variance of
less than 1/2 a mark). This is a shade tighter than on my
professionally built OC's. This is looser than my track wheels which I
built to the same spec, but they are tubular and I guess the air
pressure has not had such a great effect.

The wheels do not make any noises that I am aware of, but a handful of
times going through a frost-dip that I didn't see (in a fast paceline)
at full throttle with my butt firmly on the saddle, it has felt as
though the wheel flexed, and popped back an instant later. The
sensation reminded me of the feeling when you do the axle on the wood
block routine, and push down too hard so some of the spokes go slack.
This could be because I only ever have been in this situation with my
Deep-V wheels, or it could be my imagination, or any number of things.
But I think it's the wheel flexing in a way the OC does not.

Joseph

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 18, 5:34 am, "
> wrote:
> But I think it's the wheel flexing in a way the OC does not.

Just curious... how are both of these laced, and the spoke gauge? You
mentioned that the Aerohead is 36h and the DeepV 32h. You should be
able to increase the DS tension to 120-130kg on the Deep V with no
worries. Spokes going slack in use is not good...

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 4:28 pm, Ron Ruff > wrote:
> On Apr 18, 5:34 am, "
>
> > wrote:
> > But I think it's the wheel flexing in a way the OC does not.
>
> Just curious... how are both of these laced, and the spoke gauge? You
> mentioned that the Aerohead is 36h and the DeepV 32h. You should be
> able to increase the DS tension to 120-130kg on the Deep V with no
> worries. Spokes going slack in use is not good...

3x 14/15g. I'll tighten them up a bit. 120-130 sounds like a lot. I
should have put more grease on the nipples!

Joseph

[thejen12]

On Apr 15, 9:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn

No one seems to have any comments on the Razor, why is that? All the
old school folks say that "box rims" are the most comfortable ride.
Also, though the weight difference is 45 grams between the stated
weight of the Aerohead and the Razor, some empirical evidence I've
seen says the Aeroheads are really more like 435 grams, not 405.
Weight Weenies has a couple of Aerohead rims listed at that weight,
and QBP has them listed at about that weight in their catalog.

Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims? And has anyone actually used
the Razors?

I appreciate the discussion so far, it's been enlightening.

Thanks again, Jenn

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 6:40 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
> On Apr 15, 9:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > thanks!!
>
> > Jenn
>
> No one seems to have any comments on the Razor, why is that? All the
> old school folks say that "box rims" are the most comfortable ride.
> Also, though the weight difference is 45 grams between the stated
> weight of the Aerohead and the Razor, some empirical evidence I've
> seen says the Aeroheads are really more like 435 grams, not 405.
> Weight Weenies has a couple of Aerohead rims listed at that weight,
> and QBP has them listed at about that weight in their catalog.
>
> Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims? And has anyone actually used
> the Razors?
>
> I appreciate the discussion so far, it's been enlightening.
>
> Thanks again, Jenn

My box section rims are in the most comfortable wheels I have. But
they are comfortable because of the fat tubulars glued to them, not
because of the shape!

Joseph

[thejen12]

On Apr 18, 10:13 am, "
> wrote:
> On Apr 18, 6:40 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 9:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
>
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > > thanks!!
>
> > > Jenn
>
> > No one seems to have any comments on the Razor, why is that? All the
> > old school folks say that "box rims" are the most comfortable ride.
> > Also, though the weight difference is 45 grams between the stated
> > weight of the Aerohead and the Razor, some empirical evidence I've
> > seen says the Aeroheads are really more like 435 grams, not 405.
> > Weight Weenies has a couple of Aerohead rims listed at that weight,
> > and QBP has them listed at about that weight in their catalog.
>
> > Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims? And has anyone actually used
> > the Razors?
>
> > I appreciate the discussion so far, it's been enlightening.
>
> > Thanks again, Jenn
>
> My box section rims are in the most comfortable wheels I have. But
> they are comfortable because of the fat tubulars glued to them, not
> because of the shape!
>
> Joseph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I that's so, then why didn't you glue your fat tubulars to some aero
rims, since you think aero is always the way to go? ;-) Jenn

[[email protected]]

On Apr 18, 7:29 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
> On Apr 18, 10:13 am, "
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Apr 18, 6:40 pm, thejen12 > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 15, 9:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
>
> > > > Hi all,
>
> > > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > > saddle.
>
> > > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > > > thanks!!
>
> > > > Jenn
>
> > > No one seems to have any comments on the Razor, why is that? All the
> > > old school folks say that "box rims" are the most comfortable ride.
> > > Also, though the weight difference is 45 grams between the stated
> > > weight of the Aerohead and the Razor, some empirical evidence I've
> > > seen says the Aeroheads are really more like 435 grams, not 405.
> > > Weight Weenies has a couple of Aerohead rims listed at that weight,
> > > and QBP has them listed at about that weight in their catalog.
>
> > > Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims? And has anyone actually used
> > > the Razors?
>
> > > I appreciate the discussion so far, it's been enlightening.
>
> > > Thanks again, Jenn
>
> > My box section rims are in the most comfortable wheels I have. But
> > they are comfortable because of the fat tubulars glued to them, not
> > because of the shape!
>
> > Joseph- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I that's so, then why didn't you glue your fat tubulars to some aero
> rims, since you think aero is always the way to go? ;-) Jenn

Because the tubulars are only used on my retro rides, where getting
there is more than half the fun! As far as getting some deep-section
(50mm +) aero tubular wheels for the bikes I want to go fast on, the
only thing stopping me is that I don't like the performance of carbon
braking surfaces, and I get too many flats to want to have tubulars on
long rides, and I can't justify the expense of metal rimmed Zipp
404's!

I ended up going with the Deep-V's as they are strong enough for my
weight, and have about 90% of the aero effectivness of "real" aero
rims, and the convenience of clinchers. As Ron has suggested, at your
weight the Deep-V's are heavier than they need to be, but I still
think aero is the way to go.

You may find aero rims a bit disconcerting in high winds. As stated
before, I'm 100lbs more than you, yet I can feel it when there is a
sidewind. It doesn't actually blow me around, but the front feels a
little squirmy in a way when the wind gusts. Kind of like on oily
roads. I figure that if they are deep enough to get blown around, they
are deep enough to actually be making a difference!

Joseph

[A Muzi]

>>>> thejen12 wrote:
>>>>> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
>>>>> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
>>>>> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>>>>> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
>>>>> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
>>>>> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
>>>>> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
>>>>> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
>>>>> saddle.
>>>>> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
>>>>> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
>>>>> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>>>>> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
>>>>> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
>>>>> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
>>>>> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

>>> A Muzi > wrote:
>>>> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
>>>> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
>>>> front will be durable for you.
>>>> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
>>>> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>>>> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
>>>> rigid in the vertical.

>> Donga > wrote:
>>> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
>>> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
>>> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
>>> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
>>> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
>>> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
>>> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

> Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
>> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
>> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
>> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
>> raise tension on the left will help
>> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
>> compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
>> results.- Hide quoted text -

Donga wrote:
> Cateye - a reflective device around three inches square and half inch
> high, that are glued onto the road to enhance lane markings. Easily
> struck when riding in bunches.

I also thought he meant a Cycle Computer (not a Botz Dot).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Kerry Montgomery]

"A Muzi" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> thejen12 wrote:
>>>>>> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
>>>>>> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
>>>>>> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has
>>>>>> eyelets.
>>>>>> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
>>>>>> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
>>>>>> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
>>>>>> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
>>>>>> saddle.
>>>>>> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
>>>>>> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>>>>>> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
>>>>>> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
>>>>>> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
>>>>>> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
>>>> A Muzi > wrote:
>>>>> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern
>>>>> 8/9/10
>>>>> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
>>>>> front will be durable for you.
>>>>> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim
>>>>> sections
>>>>> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste,
>>>>> YMMV.
>>>>> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
>>>>> rigid in the vertical.
>
>>> Donga > wrote:
>>>> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
>>>> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
>>>> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
>>>> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
>>>> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
>>>> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
>>>> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>>> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
>>> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
>>> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
>>> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
>>> raise tension on the left will help
>>> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
>>> compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
>>> results.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Donga wrote:
>> Cateye - a reflective device around three inches square and half inch
>> high, that are glued onto the road to enhance lane markings. Easily
>> struck when riding in bunches.
>
> I also thought he meant a Cycle Computer (not a Botz Dot).
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Me too. Actually Botts' Dots, after Elbert Botts.
Kerry

[[email protected]]

I have a non-OC aerohead rear wheel and would like to have a matching
front aerohead wheel built around my matching 32h Shimano RSX hub. I'm
6'3", 235lbs and I've been looking at Peter White's lifetime warranty
wheels (against spoke breakage). Since I'm a clydesdale (will probably
weigh 195-200 lbs by the end of summer, though) should I just forget
about the sapims (PW only uses round Wheelsmiths)... or does somebody
offer a similar warranty for the sapim spoked wheels?
Coors

[Ron Ruff]

thejen12 wrote:
> Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims?

Last Aerohead I bought weighed 411g... that was the front. I think the
OC rear has always been light, but the weight of the front rim went up
to 435g at one point.

[Ron Ruff]

thejen12 wrote:
> Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims?

Last Aerohead I bought weighed 411g... that was the front. I think the
OC rear has always been light, but the weight of the front rim went up
to 435g at one point.

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 18, 9:50 am, "
> wrote:
> 3x 14/15g. I'll tighten them up a bit. 120-130 sounds like a lot. I
> should have put more grease on the nipples!

I unknowingly torqued some CXP21s up to 170kg. They were fine until
the eyelets started cracking after ~10k miles. Maybe Dave Ornee will
chime in... he has a lot of experience with Deep Vs... but they should
easily take 120-130kg.

Using lighter spokes NDS would have helped the slacking problem a
little.

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 18, 9:50 am, "
> wrote:
> should have put more grease on the nipples!

BTW... loosen the NDS spokes first and true the wheel with it dished
to the DS, then pull the rim to center by tightening the NDS spokes.
Then you won't have to deal with the DS spokes at highest tension.

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 18, 6:03 pm, wrote:
> does somebody
> offer a similar warranty for the sapim spoked wheels?

A "lifetime" warranty sounds nice, but consider that you will have to
pay for shipping both ways if you want PW to fix it. Wheel boxes are
oversized, so it isn't cheap, and it will take awhile. Also, if the
wheel has been damaged at all, then it isn't covered either. For less
money you could have your local shop fix it right away... so that is
what most people end up doing. If you can get a local builder to
warranty his work then it would be worth something.

On the other hand *any* sturdy well-built wheel will rarely if ever
need truing or break spokes unless it has been damaged.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> I have a non-OC aerohead rear wheel and would like to have a matching
> front aerohead wheel built around my matching 32h Shimano RSX hub. I'm
> 6'3", 235lbs and I've been looking at Peter White's lifetime warranty
> wheels (against spoke breakage). Since I'm a clydesdale (will probably
> weigh 195-200 lbs by the end of summer, though) should I just forget
> about the sapims (PW only uses round Wheelsmiths)... or does somebody
> offer a similar warranty for the sapim spoked wheels?
> Coors

I'm the same height and weight and I have some Aerohead 36 spoke
wheels with Sapim spokes, and they work fine. I don't know what would
have to happen for a front spoke to break. Since you are talking about
a front wheel, I'd say even a lousy build whould be fine. The spokes
won't break unless you crash, so the warranty is moot.

Joseph

[A Muzi]

> On Apr 15, 9:17 pm, "thejen12" > wrote:
>> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
>> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
>> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>>
>> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
>> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
>> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
>> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
>> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
>> saddle.
>>
>> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
>> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
>> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>>
>> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
>> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
>> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
>> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

thejen12 wrote:
> No one seems to have any comments on the Razor, why is that? All the
> old school folks say that "box rims" are the most comfortable ride.
> Also, though the weight difference is 45 grams between the stated
> weight of the Aerohead and the Razor, some empirical evidence I've
> seen says the Aeroheads are really more like 435 grams, not 405.
> Weight Weenies has a couple of Aerohead rims listed at that weight,
> and QBP has them listed at about that weight in their catalog.
>
> Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims? And has anyone actually used
> the Razors?

Although I believe some older riders remember using box section rims
which look like the Razor section and I believe they remember being
comfortable on those bikes then, truly there is _no_ 'comfort' component
to a rim section. Truly.

Aerohead OC really are about 400 to 410g. Aerohead are 'heavier' at 405
to 415-ish. Razors are 450+. That is not enough weight to cry over if
you think they look nice. Aerohead OC is by far the most durable on a
rear wheel.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[John Verheul]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 17, 9:24 am, thejen12 > wrote:
>> On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>>
>> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>>
>> I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
>> exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
>> to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
>> that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>>
>> Thanks, Jenn
>
> Common 48mm valves work fine

As do even more common (IMO) 36mm valves.

[John Verheul]

"thejen12" > wrote
> Has anyone weighed their Aerohead rims?

My recently purchased Aerohead OC is 425g.

Here's a good resource for actual rim (and other) weights:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rims
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php

[thejen12]

On Apr 19, 8:14 am, "John Verheul" > wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
> > On Apr 17, 9:24 am, thejen12 > wrote:
> >> On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo > wrote:
>
> >> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> >> I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> >> exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> >> to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> >> that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> >> Thanks, Jenn
>
> > Common 48mm valves work fine
>
> As do even more common (IMO) 36mm valves.

Thank you, it was the 36mm valves I was asking about.

Jenn

[[email protected]]

On Apr 19, 12:03 am, Ron Ruff > wrote:

> A "lifetime" warranty sounds nice, but consider that you will have to
> pay for shipping both ways if you want PW to fix it. Wheel boxes are
> oversized, so it isn't cheap, and it will take awhile. Also, if the
> wheel has been damaged at all, then it isn't covered either. For less
> money you could have your local shop fix it right away... so that is
> what most people end up doing. If you can get a local builder to
> warranty his work then it would be worth something.
>
> On the other hand *any* sturdy well-built wheel will rarely if ever
> need truing or break spokes unless it has been damaged.

Thank you Ron and Joseph for sharing these enlightening thoughts of
yours. So, now, how do I find out a local builder with superb
wheelbuilding skills? I live about 1 1/2 hrs from Cleveland, Ohio and
am thinking about driving there to 'city-bike' to ask them to build it
for me. I know that this shop sponsors racers, so my thinking is that
they might be putting out a good wheel. Does this logic seem sound?
Coors

[[email protected]]

On Apr 19, 10:03 pm, wrote:
> On Apr 19, 12:03 am, Ron Ruff > wrote:
>
> > A "lifetime" warranty sounds nice, but consider that you will have to
> > pay for shipping both ways if you want PW to fix it. Wheel boxes are
> > oversized, so it isn't cheap, and it will take awhile. Also, if the
> > wheel has been damaged at all, then it isn't covered either. For less
> > money you could have your local shop fix it right away... so that is
> > what most people end up doing. If you can get a local builder to
> > warranty his work then it would be worth something.
>
> > On the other hand *any* sturdy well-built wheel will rarely if ever
> > need truing or break spokes unless it has been damaged.
>
> Thank you Ron and Joseph for sharing these enlightening thoughts of
> yours. So, now, how do I find out a local builder with superb
> wheelbuilding skills? I live about 1 1/2 hrs from Cleveland, Ohio and
> am thinking about driving there to 'city-bike' to ask them to build it
> for me. I know that this shop sponsors racers, so my thinking is that
> they might be putting out a good wheel. Does this logic seem sound?
> Coors

It sounds reasonable as long as you have other business in Cleveland.
It's not exactly rocket science, particularly for front wheels. I'd go
local, but I'd ask them to show me the tension of the spokes, to be
sure they knew what they were doing. Trust but verify!

Joseph

[Booker C. Bense[_6_]]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>On Apr 19, 12:03 am, Ron Ruff > wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other hand *any* sturdy well-built wheel will rarely if ever
>> need truing or break spokes unless it has been damaged.
>
>Thank you Ron and Joseph for sharing these enlightening thoughts of
>yours. So, now, how do I find out a local builder with superb
>wheelbuilding skills?

Make one in your garage, building 32 spoke 3x wheels is not
rocket science. It's not even hard. It just takes some patience
and time. Front wheels are the easiest and you've got a handy
truing stand attached right to the bike.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I'm sure it takes me a lot longer to build a wheel than Peter
White, but all the wheels I've build are still going strong.

_ Booker C. Bense

[[email protected]]

On Apr 19, 4:35 pm, "
> wrote:
> It sounds reasonable as long as you have other business in Cleveland.
> It's not exactly rocket science, particularly for front wheels. I'd go
> local, but I'd ask them to show me the tension of the spokes, to be
> sure they knew what they were doing. Trust but verify!
>
> Joseph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm guessing that Citybike in Cleveland is no longer in business, as
googling has not shown one single hint of them. Come to think of it...
the last time that I set foot in their shop was in Feb 1996. I'll have
to look closer to home, I suppose... but not as close as Booker
suggests. Rocket science or not... would you go out and lay up all of
the technical masonry veneer on your (hypothetical) new $5,000,000
home. No, you wouldn't... you'd call either me or an equally qualified
mason to do the work. My bike is certainly not worth $5,000,000... but
my own life is priceless, to me... so I'll pass on trying to build my
own (front) wheel. Not that I could not eventually aquire the
necessary skills to build a fine wheel, but I don't have time nor the
inclination to do so. I think that I've quite drawn enough attention
away from the originator's topic and unto my own self.
Coors

[Paul Kopit]

On 19 Apr 2007 13:03:34 -0700, wrote:

>Thank you Ron and Joseph for sharing these enlightening thoughts of
>yours. So, now, how do I find out a local builder with superb
>wheelbuilding skills? I live about 1 1/2 hrs from Cleveland, Ohio and
>am thinking about driving there to 'city-bike' to ask them to build it
>for me. I know that this shop sponsors racers, so my thinking is that
>they might be putting out a good wheel. Does this logic seem sound?
>Coors

Because a builder builds wheels that racers use, they frequently are
not A1 wheel builders. Racers are frequently lightweight, ride on
smooth surfaces, and change wheels frequently. I've seen many poorly
built wheels made by mechanics that sponsor large team(s).