View Full Version : Discovery using b team riders for classics...??
I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
riders.
Dwayne
May 2nd 07, 01:55 AM
On May 1, 7:57 pm, " > wrote:
> I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> riders.
Is Brajkovic insignificant?
I am just surprised to see riders like Antonio Cruz riding. But I am
more concerned about Discovery's tour riders.
On May 1, 5:55 pm, Dwayne > wrote:
> On May 1, 7:57 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> > for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> > riders.
>
> Is Brajkovic insignificant?
Dan Gregory
May 2nd 07, 10:09 AM
wrote:
> I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> riders.
>
They're still reading positive.....
John Forrest Tomlinson
May 2nd 07, 11:05 AM
On 1 May 2007 20:44:40 -0700, "
> wrote:
>I am just surprised to see riders like Antonio Cruz riding.
Cruz was on the USPS classics team in the past -- he rode the Tour of
Flanders and Paris to Roubaix and perhaps others.
--
JT
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On May 2, 3:05 am, John Forrest Tomlinson >
wrote:
> On 1 May 2007 20:44:40 -0700, "
>
> > wrote:
> >I am just surprised to see riders like Antonio Cruz riding.
>
> Cruz was on the USPS classics team in the past -- he rode the Tour of
> Flanders and Paris to Roubaix and perhaps others.
And he looked pretty good doing it too. They didn't rehire Tony
because he was a poor water carrier.
paolo
May 3rd 07, 07:04 PM
On May 1, 4:57 pm, " > wrote:
> I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> riders.
There might be a backstory here. Discovery could be playing to a
potential new sponsor (since this is Discovery's last year) and
deploying A-riders accordingly (saving them for the Tour or keeping
them in North America). They''re also being realistic. Some Protour
teams are not targeting the major tours and stack their deck for the
spring classics.
My favorite theory: Bruyneel has been playing to the Tour for so long
he can't manage the tactics required during a 1-day effort. In a
major tour you've got a lot to play with and 3 weeks to work it, but
the classics require some rapid fire thinking on your feet (or
pedals). Who do you put in the break, how do you respond to 5 attacks
from a tier 2 team, how do you slowdown the peloton without letting
armchair sprinters take the win, etc. Also, Bruyneel is not the kind
of DS to let his riders call the shots from the peloton (not since
Lance retired).
Discovery also has a poor contingency on the sprint side. Outside of
O'Grady in the P-R for CSC, most of the spring classics were contested
in a sprint, although with a limited break group coming to the line.
Schumacher is good classic rider (very much like Hincapie). He can
handle enough rollers and still launch an attack with 10km to go. And
he can hang with the strongest riders on an uphill finish, although
its hard to beat Valverde and Bettini in such a situation.
Without Hincapie (strongest rider in the long classics) they may have
just decided to focus on hte Tours. The "in-between" tours are
training rides (Romandie, Dauphine and Tour of Switzerland) for THE
tour or the Giro, in my opinion. I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
Dwayne
May 3rd 07, 09:01 PM
On May 1, 11:44 pm, " > wrote:
> I am just surprised to see riders like Antonio Cruz riding. But I am
> more concerned about Discovery's tour riders.
Doesn't look like Cruz is riding. Velonews mentioned that he has some
injuries from the Classics. But yeah, the Disco team isn't that
impressive.
Dwayne
May 3rd 07, 09:07 PM
On May 3, 2:04 pm, paolo > wrote:
> My favorite theory: Bruyneel has been playing to the Tour for so long
> he can't manage the tactics required during a 1-day effort. In a
> major tour you've got a lot to play with and 3 weeks to work it, but
> the classics require some rapid fire thinking on your feet (or
> pedals). Who do you put in the break, how do you respond to 5 attacks
> from a tier 2 team, how do you slowdown the peloton without letting
> armchair sprinters take the win, etc. Also, Bruyneel is not the kind
> of DS to let his riders call the shots from the peloton (not since
> Lance retired).
Is Bruyneel the Discovery DS for the classics? I thought that was Dirk
Demol's responsibility...
Bob Schwartz
May 3rd 07, 10:07 PM
paolo wrote:
> I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
a Grand Tour.
Both of these guys, and Levi especially, are getting
kind of old to show things that they have never shown
before. Levi is 33. At 33 the trend line is down, not
up.
I've gotta think someone has to find a lot of blood in
the fridge before the field is thinned out enough for
either of these guys to have a shot at a Grand Tour.
The Dauphine's a possibility though. That's a training
race and Levi's won it before. If I had Copperopolis
in my palmares I'd take a crack at the Dauphine.
Bob Schwartz
Ewoud Dronkert
May 3rd 07, 10:13 PM
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> paolo wrote:
>> I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
>> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
>
> Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
> of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
> a Grand Tour.
The Vuelta's not a Grand Tour?
--
E. Dronkert
Geraard Spergen
May 3rd 07, 10:36 PM
> On May 1, 4:57 pm, " > wrote:
>> I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
>> for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
>> riders.
>
The definition of a classic has evolved somewhat from the original;
semi-classics and minor classics have been added, but TdR fits no one's
definition.
paolo
May 4th 07, 01:19 AM
On May 3, 2:07 pm, Bob Schwartz >
wrote:
> paolo wrote:
> > I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
> > Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
>
> Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
> of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
> a Grand Tour.
>
> Both of these guys, and Levi especially, are getting
> kind of old to show things that they have never shown
> before. Levi is 33. At 33 the trend line is down, not
> up.
>
> I've gotta think someone has to find a lot of blood in
> the fridge before the field is thinned out enough for
> either of these guys to have a shot at a Grand Tour.
>
> The Dauphine's a possibility though. That's a training
> race and Levi's won it before. If I had Copperopolis
> in my palmares I'd take a crack at the Dauphine.
>
> Bob Schwartz
hey, I'm 46! But that's why I'm watching the cycling world from the
comfort of my couch!
Your right, the trendline is definately down. Though, try and tell
that to Rebellin! He had an amazing run at the classics in 2004 (?)
and took a good classic win last week. I believe he'll turn 36 this
year.
But the grand tours favor the younger, but seasoned riders. Aren't
there potentially 50+ riders with blood in the fridge (announcements
to be made sometime this month????) Gilberto may grab both tours with
the PED epidemic hitting the top riders!
Bruyneel is a very experienced DS. Personally I don't understand why
Discovery did not send some of it's better riders to Tour of Romandy.
Discovery got rid of it's old riders to quickly. Getting rid of riders
like Jose Azevedo & Paolo Savoldelli was a mistake. A large expensive
team requires results and Discovery needs some big victories to
compensate for a potential TDF loss.
This may partially explain why it is taking so long for Discovery to
find a new sponsor.
On May 3, 11:04 am, paolo > wrote:
> On May 1, 4:57 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> > for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> > riders.
>
> There might be a backstory here. Discovery could be playing to a
> potential new sponsor (since this is Discovery's last year) and
> deploying A-riders accordingly (saving them for the Tour or keeping
> them in North America). They''re also being realistic. Some Protour
> teams are not targeting the major tours and stack their deck for the
> spring classics.
>
> My favorite theory: Bruyneel has been playing to the Tour for so long
> he can't manage the tactics required during a 1-day effort. In a
> major tour you've got a lot to play with and 3 weeks to work it, but
> the classics require some rapid fire thinking on your feet (or
> pedals). Who do you put in the break, how do you respond to 5 attacks
> from a tier 2 team, how do you slowdown the peloton without letting
> armchair sprinters take the win, etc. Also, Bruyneel is not the kind
> of DS to let his riders call the shots from the peloton (not since
> Lance retired).
>
> Discovery also has a poor contingency on the sprint side. Outside of
> O'Grady in the P-R for CSC, most of the spring classics were contested
> in a sprint, although with a limited break group coming to the line.
>
> Schumacher is good classic rider (very much like Hincapie). He can
> handle enough rollers and still launch an attack with 10km to go. And
> he can hang with the strongest riders on an uphill finish, although
> its hard to beat Valverde and Bettini in such a situation.
>
> Without Hincapie (strongest rider in the long classics) they may have
> just decided to focus on hte Tours. The "in-between" tours are
> training rides (Romandie, Dauphine and Tour of Switzerland) for THE
> tour or the Giro, in my opinion. I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
On May 3, 11:04 am, paolo > wrote:
> On May 1, 4:57 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> > for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> > riders.
>
> There might be a backstory here. Discovery could be playing to a
> potential new sponsor (since this is Discovery's last year) and
> deploying A-riders accordingly (saving them for the Tour or keeping
> them in North America). They''re also being realistic. Some Protour
> teams are not targeting the major tours and stack their deck for the
> spring classics.
>
> My favorite theory: Bruyneel has been playing to the Tour for so long
> he can't manage the tactics required during a 1-day effort. In a
> major tour you've got a lot to play with and 3 weeks to work it, but
> the classics require some rapid fire thinking on your feet (or
> pedals). Who do you put in the break, how do you respond to 5 attacks
> from a tier 2 team, how do you slowdown the peloton without letting
> armchair sprinters take the win, etc. Also, Bruyneel is not the kind
> of DS to let his riders call the shots from the peloton (not since
> Lance retired).
Dirk Demol is driving the car in the Belgian classics, not
Bruyneel. A team can't be all things to all races, and Discovery/USPS
has targeted the grand tours, so it's naturally less of a classics
team, especially with Hincapie out. Who should Disco
be sending to the classics? Levi and Danielson? Neither
of those guys belongs in Flanders or P-R; maybe Amstel
or LBL, but the reality is they don't peak for those races.
When has Disco sent its heavy hitters to the Tour of
Romandie? It is a Giro tune-up race and Disco has never
made the Giro a priority until recently with the ProTour and
the now-departed Savoldelli.
None of this is to deny that Disco is a bunch of strung-out
dope-sniffing ******s; but some of these comments show
unrealistic expectations.
Ben
Ryan Cousineau
May 4th 07, 03:13 AM
In article >,
Ewoud Dronkert > wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
> > paolo wrote:
> >> I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
> >> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
> >
> > Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
> > of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
> > a Grand Tour.
>
> The Vuelta's not a Grand Tour?
Well it's Grand, but not that Grand...
--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
With the resignation of Basso and the post Lance era Discovery needs
to align their goals to attract a new sponsor. It's true that Johan
can't be everywhere, but he can help plan the tactics for the
classics. I do think that Discovery needs to have a B team captain.
The Tour of Romandy is well suited for Discovery because it is short
tour. I just think that Discovery needs some smaller victories since a
TDF victory is in question now.
On May 3, 6:02 pm, " >
wrote:
> On May 3, 11:04 am, paolo > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 1, 4:57 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > > I have been noticing that Discovery has fielding it's B team riders
> > > for the classics. Their Tour of Romandy team features no significant
> > > riders.
>
> > There might be a backstory here. Discovery could be playing to a
> > potential new sponsor (since this is Discovery's last year) and
> > deploying A-riders accordingly (saving them for the Tour or keeping
> > them in North America). They''re also being realistic. Some Protour
> > teams are not targeting the major tours and stack their deck for the
> > spring classics.
>
> > My favorite theory: Bruyneel has been playing to the Tour for so long
> > he can't manage the tactics required during a 1-day effort. In a
> > major tour you've got a lot to play with and 3 weeks to work it, but
> > the classics require some rapid fire thinking on your feet (or
> > pedals). Who do you put in the break, how do you respond to 5 attacks
> > from a tier 2 team, how do you slowdown the peloton without letting
> > armchair sprinters take the win, etc. Also, Bruyneel is not the kind
> > of DS to let his riders call the shots from the peloton (not since
> > Lance retired).
>
> Dirk Demol is driving the car in the Belgian classics, not
> Bruyneel. A team can't be all things to all races, and Discovery/USPS
> has targeted the grand tours, so it's naturally less of a classics
> team, especially with Hincapie out. Who should Disco
> be sending to the classics? Levi and Danielson? Neither
> of those guys belongs in Flanders or P-R; maybe Amstel
> or LBL, but the reality is they don't peak for those races.
>
> When has Disco sent its heavy hitters to the Tour of
> Romandie? It is a Giro tune-up race and Disco has never
> made the Giro a priority until recently with the ProTour and
> the now-departed Savoldelli.
>
> None of this is to deny that Disco is a bunch of strung-out
> dope-sniffing ******s; but some of these comments show
> unrealistic expectations.
>
> Ben
Bob Schwartz
May 4th 07, 03:42 AM
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> paolo wrote:
>>> I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
>>> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
>>
>> Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
>> of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
>> a Grand Tour.
>
> The Vuelta's not a Grand Tour?
Well there you go, that was so long ago that no one
remembers it. Just like Hampsten's win going over the
Gavia Pass, if you don't finish first no one remembers.
Bob Schwartz
On May 3, 8:42 pm, Bob Schwartz >
wrote:
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> > Bob Schwartz wrote:
> >> paolo wrote:
> >>> I'd like to see Levi or Danielson in
> >>> Dauphine and the Vuelta this year. Both could win.
>
> >> Levi has never even won a stage in a Grand Tour. Neither
> >> of these guys has even finished in a podium position in
> >> a Grand Tour.
>
> > The Vuelta's not a Grand Tour?
>
> Well there you go, that was so long ago that no one
> remembers it. Just like Hampsten's win going over the
> Gavia Pass, if you don't finish first no one remembers.
>
> Bob Schwartz
Hampsten's win on the Gavia is seared into my memory. There was
rioting in Boulder that evening and I was fortunate to escape with my
life.
Bret
Ewoud Dronkert
May 4th 07, 08:09 AM
On 3 May 2007 20:56:33 -0700, Bret wrote:
> Hampsten's win on the Gavia is seared into my memory. There was
> rioting in Boulder that evening and I was fortunate to escape with my
> life.
THERE'S GONNA BE RIOTING HERE!!!!!!
http://www.danny-nelissen.com/images/Neliss36.jpg
http://www.france-cyclisme.com/nicolas/breukink.JPG
http://www.tourdefrance.nl/pics/fotos/wittetrui-8.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/49/187640345_746496959e_m.jpg
http://www.louison.dds.nl/Breukink.jpg
http://tignon.andre.free.fr/images/photos/PASSODIGAVIAPENNINCK05/23Gavia1988.jpg
http://images.vpro.nl/img.db?10220190+s(400)
Best way to climb the Gavia:
http://www.hotelpedranzini.it/immagini/foto/curiosita17.jpg
--
E. Dronkert
John Forrest Tomlinson
May 4th 07, 11:11 AM
On Fri, 04 May 2007 09:09:17 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert
> wrote:
>THERE'S GONNA BE RIOTING HERE!!!!!!
>http://static.flickr.com/49/187640345_746496959e_m.jpg
That's not enough clothes. No wonder Hampstem passed that guy on the
way down and took the win.
--
JT
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Ewoud Dronkert
May 4th 07, 11:26 AM
On Fri, 04 May 2007 06:11:31 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> http://static.flickr.com/49/187640345_746496959e_m.jpg
>
> That's not enough clothes. No wonder Hampstem passed that guy on the
> way down and took the win.
(grmh.) He did have armwarmers. Here's the re-enactement:
http://images.vpro.nl/images/26968507 or
http://images.vpro.nl/images/26968507+s(800)+f(asis)/breukink.jpg
--
E. Dronkert
On May 4, 1:09 am, Ewoud Dronkert >
wrote:
> On 3 May 2007 20:56:33 -0700, Bret wrote:
>
> > Hampsten's win on the Gavia is seared into my memory. There was
> > rioting in Boulder that evening and I was fortunate to escape with my
> > life.
>
> THERE'S GONNA BE RIOTING HERE!!!!!!
Cheer up! Andy says that every one who made it over the Gavia that day
is a winner:
http://www.hampsten.com/Bikes/ClassicRoad/5June.pdf
Here's a rather odd youtube video from that day:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y5wPEymv-oQ
Maybe Ed will post a better one?
Bret
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