105 and Ultegra

[Dropbear[_2_]]

Could someone please advise me whether Shimano 105 and Ultegra rear
deraillers are interchangeable? They look pretty much the same and If I
can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the price of
retail and it fits I would be happy.

[Bleve]

On May 4, 5:03 pm, Dropbear > wrote:
> Could someone please advise me whether Shimano 105 and Ultegra rear
> deraillers are interchangeable? They look pretty much the same and If I
> can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the price of
> retail and it fits I would be happy.

yes, they are.

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-05-04, Dropbear > wrote:
> Could someone please advise me whether Shimano 105 and Ultegra rear
> deraillers are interchangeable? They look pretty much the same and If I
> can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the price of
> retail and it fits I would be happy.

Interchamging these parns shouldn't be a problem.

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing
| Low cost 2nd hand bikes
www.humanpowered.com.au | Bicycle re-use centre

[gplama[_92_]]

Dropbear Wrote:
> If I can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the price
> of retail and it fits I would be happy.

<kind of related rant>

IMO (ONLY) RRP of Shimano components here in Australia promotes people
importing from OS. As an example, here are the numbers on my recent
upgrade to Dura Ace drive chain.

Cranks:
In AU $536-550
OS for $347

Cassette:
In AU $254-333
OS for $150

Chain:
In AU $70
OS for $32

Totals:
AU: $860-$953
OS: $529 (lets say $31 for shipping) Total AU$560

$300 difference, minimum. The neat-o prices were all from the one
online dealer, so that was a win! So this is nothing new to the
Interweeb purchasing ninjas that we've all become - but that difference
raises a few questions about the cost vs value. I'd take a stab at the
demand is low enough here in AU that Shimano can justify their
pricing... that, and I'm thinking their main cash-cow is feeding OEM
group sets for whole bikes?

Anyways - I won't post my price sources in public, advertising is
something I charge for. (email or pm me though) :)


lama
(running Ultegra mixed with Dura Ace)


--
gplama

[Dropbear[_2_]]

gplama wrote:
> Dropbear Wrote:
>> If I can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the price
>> of retail and it fits I would be happy.
>
> <kind of related rant>
>
> IMO (ONLY) RRP of Shimano components here in Australia promotes people
> importing from OS. As an example, here are the numbers on my recent
> upgrade to Dura Ace drive chain.
>
> Cranks:
> In AU $536-550
> OS for $347
>
> Cassette:
> In AU $254-333
> OS for $150
>
> Chain:
> In AU $70
> OS for $32
>
> Totals:
> AU: $860-$953
> OS: $529 (lets say $31 for shipping) Total AU$560
>
> $300 difference, minimum. The neat-o prices were all from the one
> online dealer, so that was a win! So this is nothing new to the
> Interweeb purchasing ninjas that we've all become - but that difference
> raises a few questions about the cost vs value. I'd take a stab at the
> demand is low enough here in AU that Shimano can justify their
> pricing... that, and I'm thinking their main cash-cow is feeding OEM
> group sets for whole bikes?
>
> Anyways - I won't post my price sources in public, advertising is
> something I charge for. (email or pm me though) :)
>
>
> lama
> (running Ultegra mixed with Dura Ace)
>
>
Please provide your email address as I would like to source cheap parts
from OS. I really need a 105 /ultegra rear derailer to repair my bike
that was damaged in the accident and I really cant see myself paying
retail. Thx

Remove the obvious before replying.

[SomeGuy[_45_]]

Dropbear Wrote:
> gplama wrote:
> > Dropbear Wrote:
> >> If I can pick an Ultegra unit up from eBay for around a third the
> price
> >> of retail and it fits I would be happy.
> >
> > <kind of related rant>
> >
> > IMO (ONLY) RRP of Shimano components here in Australia promotes
> people
> > importing from OS. As an example, here are the numbers on my recent
> > upgrade to Dura Ace drive chain.
> >
> > Cranks:
> > In AU $536-550
> > OS for $347
> >
> > Cassette:
> > In AU $254-333
> > OS for $150
> >
> > Chain:
> > In AU $70
> > OS for $32
> >
> > Totals:
> > AU: $860-$953
> > OS: $529 (lets say $31 for shipping) Total AU$560
> >
> > $300 difference, minimum. The neat-o prices were all from the one
> > online dealer, so that was a win! So this is nothing new to the
> > Interweeb purchasing ninjas that we've all become - but that
> difference
> > raises a few questions about the cost vs value. I'd take a stab at
> the
> > demand is low enough here in AU that Shimano can justify their
> > pricing... that, and I'm thinking their main cash-cow is feeding OEM
> > group sets for whole bikes?
> >
> > Anyways - I won't post my price sources in public, advertising is
> > something I charge for. (email or pm me though) :)
> >
> >
> > lama
> > (running Ultegra mixed with Dura Ace)
> >
> >
> Please provide your email address as I would like to source cheap parts
> from OS. I really need a 105 /ultegra rear derailer to repair my bike
> that was damaged in the accident and I really cant see myself paying
> retail. Thx
>
> Remove the obvious before replying.
www.probikekit.com
www.chainreactioncycles.com

Just don't tell anyone in the industry where you got it from, it's like
a red flag to a bull.


--
SomeGuy

[DavidM]

"Dropbear" > wrote in message
...

> Please provide your email address as I would like to source cheap parts
> from OS. I really need a 105 /ultegra rear derailer to repair my bike that
> was damaged in the accident and I really cant see myself paying retail.
> Thx

Given that you sound unitiated, I'd try www.probikekit.com. The prices are
cheap, delivery takes less than a week, if there's a mistake in the order
they fix it apparently, and they do cheap flat-rate shipping to Australia
whereas many of the others calculate shipping per-order and it gets pretty
pricey. And their website has a function where you can change the display
currency to $AUD.

Be aware that there are a couple of different rear derailleur sizes though
with different truss lengths to suit different cassette size ranges, though
it's pretty self explanatory and I'm sure people here will help you with
your choice!

Cheers
David M

[Dropbear[_2_]]

DavidM wrote:
> "Dropbear" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Please provide your email address as I would like to source cheap parts
>> from OS. I really need a 105 /ultegra rear derailer to repair my bike that
>> was damaged in the accident and I really cant see myself paying retail.
>> Thx
>
> Given that you sound unitiated, I'd try www.probikekit.com. The prices are
> cheap, delivery takes less than a week, if there's a mistake in the order
> they fix it apparently, and they do cheap flat-rate shipping to Australia
> whereas many of the others calculate shipping per-order and it gets pretty
> pricey. And their website has a function where you can change the display
> currency to $AUD.
>
> Be aware that there are a couple of different rear derailleur sizes though
> with different truss lengths to suit different cassette size ranges, though
> it's pretty self explanatory and I'm sure people here will help you with
> your choice!
>
> Cheers
> David M
>
>
Thanx a lot guys for the advice your advice is much appreciated for
those like me on a strict budget.
Grrrr....freakin mortgage.

[jcjordan[_12_]]

DavidM Wrote:
> "Dropbear" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Please provide your email address as I would like to source cheap
> parts
> > from OS. I really need a 105 /ultegra rear derailer to repair my bike
> that
> > was damaged in the accident and I really cant see myself paying
> retail.
> > Thx
>
> Given that you sound unitiated, I'd try www.probikekit.com. The prices
> are
> cheap, delivery takes less than a week, if there's a mistake in the
> order
> they fix it apparently, and they do cheap flat-rate shipping to
> Australia
> whereas many of the others calculate shipping per-order and it gets
> pretty
> pricey. And their website has a function where you can change the
> display
> currency to $AUD.
>
> Be aware that there are a couple of different rear derailleur sizes
> though
> with different truss lengths to suit different cassette size ranges,
> though
> it's pretty self explanatory and I'm sure people here will help you
> with
> your choice!
>
> Cheers
> David M
I have used probike at least a dozen time and have only ever one had a
problem with a order. One item was left out of the order and when i
contacted them they did not even bat an eyelid, they offered credit or
to just send the product on ASAP for no charge. I just asked them to
add it to the next order and sure enough no problems. The only time I
have ever had a order take more then 3-4 days to turn up is when AQIS
got hold of it, put 3 days of delay. I have even had orders show up
before the charge on my credit card has been applied:).

Most of the shops are aware that people order from O/S and are well
aware that they can not compete with the prices due to the on cost put
up by the distributors. That is where the problem lies, I think that
most are way over charging the shops who then have to put on their
markup and the result is products that are to costly to sell.


--
jcjordan

[rooman[_119_]]

jcjordan Wrote:
> snip about pbk...
>
> Most of the shops are aware that people order from O/S and are well
> aware that they can not compete with the prices due to the on cost put
> up by the distributors. That is where the problem lies, I think that
> most are way over charging the shops who then have to put on their
> markup and the result is products that are to costly to sell.

the distributors sock it hard to the LBS's, a couple of LBS owners were
in Taiwan at the big bike show last year unknown to the Aus Distributors
who were horrified to see these guys ( and gals ) there... the owners
learnt first hand for every component in stock in their shops, one or
two factories make 15 brands and all their wholesalers were at the show
discounting to the foreign distributors to get the business and
competitive "real prices" revealed.

The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
on some items.

sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
lots....

In the end they lose and the customers pay stupid RRP amounts that
could be better spent on donating to the Starlight or Make a Wish
Foundation or feed a village in Chad etc.

I try to support my LBS's as much as possible but at times you just
gotta go the internerd.


--
rooman

[Dropbear[_2_]]

rooman wrote:
> jcjordan Wrote:
>> snip about pbk...
>>
>> Most of the shops are aware that people order from O/S and are well
>> aware that they can not compete with the prices due to the on cost put
>> up by the distributors. That is where the problem lies, I think that
>> most are way over charging the shops who then have to put on their
>> markup and the result is products that are to costly to sell.
>
> the distributors sock it hard to the LBS's, a couple of LBS owners were
> in Taiwan at the big bike show last year unknown to the Aus Distributors
> who were horrified to see these guys ( and gals ) there... the owners
> learnt first hand for every component in stock in their shops, one or
> two factories make 15 brands and all their wholesalers were at the show
> discounting to the foreign distributors to get the business and
> competitive "real prices" revealed.
>
> The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
> on some items.
>
> sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
> can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
> lots....
>
> In the end they lose and the customers pay stupid RRP amounts that
> could be better spent on donating to the Starlight or Make a Wish
> Foundation or feed a village in Chad etc.
>
> I try to support my LBS's as much as possible but at times you just
> gotta go the internerd.
>
>
As I am still researching my options on which bike to buy to replace my
damaged Trek I had it narrowed down to either an Azzuri Uno cf 105 the
Avanti Corsa alloy / cf ultegra or Felt F5c.cf 105 / ultegra. but when I
went down to the LBS's yesterday the Azzuri dealer had shut down which
is a bit of a shame as he had always looked after me with my last bike
(Trek 1400). Has anybody have any opinions on the above mentioned bikes
good, bad or otherwise apart from the Azzuri as it is most likely out of
the equation now.
As far as PBK goes I had a look on their website and have ordered a
set of pedals that I priced yesterday for $150.00 retail and PBK have
them on special for A$82.00 so I have saved a bundle already. I was also
chasing an Ultegra or 105 rear derailer but they haven't got any in
stock but there is no great hurry for that as long as I have a bike to
get around on within about a fortnight or so.

[John Pitts[_2_]]

On 2007-05-06, rooman > wrote:
> The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
> on some items.
>
> sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
> can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
> lots....

Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
some items from PBK than from their suppliers...

--
John
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't
wipe your friends off on the saddle. - Kinky Friedman

[gplama[_108_]]

John Pitts Wrote:
>
> Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
> some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>

'quietly' meaning illegal parallel imports? (not that I'd know the
first thing about commercial importing though).

This _has_ to be hurting Shimano Australia. (not that I'd know the
first this about Shimano Australia).


lama
'arhhhh post op drugs'


--
gplama

[Travis]

On May 8, 7:35 pm, John Pitts > wrote:
> On 2007-05-06, rooman > wrote:
>
> > The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
> > on some items.
>
> > sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
> > can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
> > lots....
>
> Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
> some items from PBK than from their suppliers...

Why does Shimano permit this? If its purely a matter of profits for
the importers then that's not Shimano's gain, and in fact having high
prices must inevitably reduce sales in Australia. They'd be better
off appointing a couple of importers and letting them compete for
price.

Only if Shimano did the importing themselves would it make business
sense for them to push up import margins.

Travis

[Donga]

On May 8, 10:09 pm, gplama <gplama.2q9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> John Pitts Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
> > some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>
> 'quietly' meaning illegal parallel imports? (not that I'd know the
> first thing about commercial importing though).

Quite the opposite. Competition reforms to federal trade law in recent
years were explicitly aimed at making parallel imports legal. I also
understand that it is illegal to try to circumvent these laws by
formal or informal agreements - known as cartel behaviour or price-
fixing. I have picked up a few hints that there is no shortage of this
sort of activity in the industry, e.g. shops not getting to distribute
certain brands (from the Aust agent) if they discount etc. There is
even a widely known example of a shop that does parallel imports and
sells cheaply, that was allegedly drummed out of advertising in a
major magazine.

Donga

[Donga]

On May 8, 10:19 pm, Travis > wrote:
> On May 8, 7:35 pm, John Pitts > wrote:
>
> > On 2007-05-06, rooman > wrote:
>
> > > The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
> > > on some items.
>
> > > sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
> > > can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
> > > lots....
>
> > Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
> > some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>
> Why does Shimano permit this? If its purely a matter of profits for
> the importers then that's not Shimano's gain, and in fact having high
> prices must inevitably reduce sales in Australia. They'd be better
> off appointing a couple of importers and letting them compete for
> price.
>
> Only if Shimano did the importing themselves would it make business
> sense for them to push up import margins.
>
> Travis

Good question - why not write and ask them? You never know, it might
get a useful response!

Donga

[Shane Stanley]

In article . com>,
Travis > wrote:

> if Shimano did the importing themselves

I was under the impression they do.

--
Shane Stanley

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Wed, 09 May 2007 09:05:13 +1000, Shane Stanley wrote:

>> if Shimano did the importing themselves
>
> I was under the impression they do.

My LBS refers to "ordering stuff from Shimano".

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[Bean Long]

Dropbear wrote:

> Thanx a lot guys for the advice your advice is much appreciated for
> those like me on a strict budget.
> Grrrr....freakin mortgage.

Lucky you've got one!

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

[Friday]

Donga wrote:
> On May 8, 10:19 pm, Travis > wrote:
>> On May 8, 7:35 pm, John Pitts > wrote:
>>
>>> On 2007-05-06, rooman > wrote:
>>>> The mark up here is horrendous, the word "superprofits" has been used
>>>> on some items.
>>>> sad thing is the LBS's are stuck with the suppliers they have if they
>>>> can't get to the wholesealers OS and even then, can finance big buy
>>>> lots....
>>> Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly order
>>> some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>> Why does Shimano permit this? If its purely a matter of profits for
>> the importers then that's not Shimano's gain, and in fact having high
>> prices must inevitably reduce sales in Australia. They'd be better
>> off appointing a couple of importers and letting them compete for
>> price.
>>
>> Only if Shimano did the importing themselves would it make business
>> sense for them to push up import margins.
>>
>> Travis
>
> Good question - why not write and ask them? You never know, it might
> get a useful response!
>
> Donga
>

I once emailed Shimano Australia and they replied by saying they had to
charge more to cover for advertising and because they have a smaller
turnover than the "states". They added that they give better service
than the mail order companies too.

It didn't sound very convincing.

Friday

[roshea[_44_]]

Friday Wrote:
> I once emailed Shimano Australia and they replied by saying they had to
> charge more to cover for advertising and because they have a smaller
> turnover than the "states". They added that they give better service
> than the mail order companies too.
>
> It didn't sound very convincing.
>
> FridayI don't know if this is the case for cycling equipment in general or
Shimano in particular, but, for many other kinds of goods,
manufacturers set different wholesale prices for different markets. The
wholesale cost that the local distributor pays may be higher than the
retail prices in other countries! Add to that the fact that PBK and
other big sellers may get OEM (cheaper than wholesale) pricing, it
makes it very difficult for local retailers to compete on price.


--
roshea

[SteveA[_29_]]

Donga Wrote:
> On May 8, 10:09 pm, gplama <gplama.2q9...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > John Pitts Wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly
> order
> > > some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
> >
> > 'quietly' meaning illegal parallel imports? (not that I'd know the
> > first thing about commercial importing though).
>
> Quite the opposite. Competition reforms to federal trade law in recent
> years were explicitly aimed at making parallel imports legal. I also
> understand that it is illegal to try to circumvent these laws by
> formal or informal agreements - known as cartel behaviour or price-
> fixing. I have picked up a few hints that there is no shortage of this
> sort of activity in the industry, e.g. shops not getting to distribute
> certain brands (from the Aust agent) if they discount etc. There is
> even a widely known example of a shop that does parallel imports and
> sells cheaply, that was allegedly drummed out of advertising in a
> major magazine.
>
> Donga
Correcto. Current phrase for that general sort of behaviour is
"anti-competitive conduct".

But there are ways around the competition law restrictions. I recently
replaced my dishwasher. I wanted a Miele. I found the one I wanted and
started a subtle discussion that would lead to talking about how keen
they were to sell it to me, and therefore how reasonable the price
would be. I told the salesman I wasn't going to sign up there and then
as I wanted to talk to a few other shops about price. He stopped me
there and said that no shops would discount as Miele didn't let them.

I worked for the Trade Practices Commission in the 1990s and ran a
number of court cases where people's conduct was anti-competitive.

I was getting ready to tackle Miele for their anti-competitive conduct
when the salesman told me that no-one could discount Miele products as
no-one retailed their products. The shops where you see Miele are just
agents who display the product on behalf of Miele. You actually buy the
product from Miele itself. And Miele does not discount.

They have very simply got around the 'resale price maintenance' part of
the competition law.

So I negotiated a $700 discount out of price of the fridge I was buying
at the same time.

(what has this to do with cycling? - bugger all unless you count the
fact that I wash my water bottles in the dish washer)


SteveA


--
SteveA

[Plodder]

"SteveA" > wrote in message
...
>
> Donga Wrote:
>> On May 8, 10:09 pm, gplama <gplama.2q9...@no-
>> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> > John Pitts Wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly
>> order
>> > > some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>> >
>> > 'quietly' meaning illegal parallel imports? (not that I'd know the
>> > first thing about commercial importing though).
>>
>> Quite the opposite. Competition reforms to federal trade law in recent
>> years were explicitly aimed at making parallel imports legal. I also
>> understand that it is illegal to try to circumvent these laws by
>> formal or informal agreements - known as cartel behaviour or price-
>> fixing. I have picked up a few hints that there is no shortage of this
>> sort of activity in the industry, e.g. shops not getting to distribute
>> certain brands (from the Aust agent) if they discount etc. There is
>> even a widely known example of a shop that does parallel imports and
>> sells cheaply, that was allegedly drummed out of advertising in a
>> major magazine.
>>
>> Donga
> Correcto. Current phrase for that general sort of behaviour is
> "anti-competitive conduct".
>
> But there are ways around the competition law restrictions. I recently
> replaced my dishwasher. I wanted a Miele. I found the one I wanted and
> started a subtle discussion that would lead to talking about how keen
> they were to sell it to me, and therefore how reasonable the price
> would be. I told the salesman I wasn't going to sign up there and then
> as I wanted to talk to a few other shops about price. He stopped me
> there and said that no shops would discount as Miele didn't let them.
>
> I worked for the Trade Practices Commission in the 1990s and ran a
> number of court cases where people's conduct was anti-competitive.
>
> I was getting ready to tackle Miele for their anti-competitive conduct
> when the salesman told me that no-one could discount Miele products as
> no-one retailed their products. The shops where you see Miele are just
> agents who display the product on behalf of Miele. You actually buy the
> product from Miele itself. And Miele does not discount.
>
> They have very simply got around the 'resale price maintenance' part of
> the competition law.
>
> So I negotiated a $700 discount out of price of the fridge I was buying
> at the same time.
>
> (what has this to do with cycling? - bugger all unless you count the
> fact that I wash my water bottles in the dish washer)
>
>
> SteveA
>
>
> --
> SteveA

There's one bike distributor that jars with me as a bike shop owner. I have
to commit to x number of bikes (the number is set by them) or I'm not
allowed to buy any of that brand. I'm told that it's because it stops the
guy down the road from buying just one bike and undercutting me when I've
made the commitment to the distributor, so thats much more fair (!). Seems
to me that that's business - that's how all the other brands operate. Some
demand that I carry a number of bikes on the floor at all times, but the
number is small, so I have no problem with that. The idea that I have to
commit to buying the number of bikes set by them (not by me) for the year is
what galls me.

They distribute 3 popular brands, so I can't afford not to stock their
product but I have to buy more than I need, making their sales targets my
problem. I've wondered if the practice is contrary to fair trading but I'm
so new in the game it's best not to make waves. Sucks though...

me

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 May 2007 13:19:00 GMT
Plodder > wrote:
>
> There's one bike distributor that jars with me as a bike shop owner. I have
> to commit to x number of bikes (the number is set by them) or I'm not
> allowed to buy any of that brand. I'm told that it's because it stops the

COuld be worse, at least it is bicycles... A while back the new
importer of an expensive and not well known (but with a history)
revived Italian brand of motocycle would only have dealerships on a
similar model. The dealer had to commit to buying x number of bikes a
month, and the importer refused to carry spares, requiring the dealer
to have a minimum spares inventory and then any others would have to
be flown from Italy at dealer expense.

You can see why there were almost no dealers for that marque!

I suppose though if Honda did it, then dealers would have to roll over
and take it...


Zebee

[Bleve]

On May 9, 11:19 pm, "Plodder" > wrote:
> "SteveA" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Donga Wrote:
> >> On May 8, 10:09 pm, gplama <gplama.2q9...@no-
> >> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> >> > John Pitts Wrote:
>
> >> > > Some LBS's are finding that it's quicker and cheaper to quietly
> >> order
> >> > > some items from PBK than from their suppliers...
>
> >> > 'quietly' meaning illegal parallel imports? (not that I'd know the
> >> > first thing about commercial importing though).
>
> >> Quite the opposite. Competition reforms to federal trade law in recent
> >> years were explicitly aimed at making parallel imports legal. I also
> >> understand that it is illegal to try to circumvent these laws by
> >> formal or informal agreements - known as cartel behaviour or price-
> >> fixing. I have picked up a few hints that there is no shortage of this
> >> sort of activity in the industry, e.g. shops not getting to distribute
> >> certain brands (from the Aust agent) if they discount etc. There is
> >> even a widely known example of a shop that does parallel imports and
> >> sells cheaply, that was allegedly drummed out of advertising in a
> >> major magazine.
>
> >> Donga
> > Correcto. Current phrase for that general sort of behaviour is
> > "anti-competitive conduct".
>
> > But there are ways around the competition law restrictions. I recently
> > replaced my dishwasher. I wanted a Miele. I found the one I wanted and
> > started a subtle discussion that would lead to talking about how keen
> > they were to sell it to me, and therefore how reasonable the price
> > would be. I told the salesman I wasn't going to sign up there and then
> > as I wanted to talk to a few other shops about price. He stopped me
> > there and said that no shops would discount as Miele didn't let them.
>
> > I worked for the Trade Practices Commission in the 1990s and ran a
> > number of court cases where people's conduct was anti-competitive.
>
> > I was getting ready to tackle Miele for their anti-competitive conduct
> > when the salesman told me that no-one could discount Miele products as
> > no-one retailed their products. The shops where you see Miele are just
> > agents who display the product on behalf of Miele. You actually buy the
> > product from Miele itself. And Miele does not discount.
>
> > They have very simply got around the 'resale price maintenance' part of
> > the competition law.
>
> > So I negotiated a $700 discount out of price of the fridge I was buying
> > at the same time.
>
> > (what has this to do with cycling? - bugger all unless you count the
> > fact that I wash my water bottles in the dish washer)
>
> > SteveA
>
> > --
> > SteveA
>
> There's one bike distributor that jars with me as a bike shop owner. I have
> to commit to x number of bikes (the number is set by them) or I'm not
> allowed to buy any of that brand. I'm told that it's because it stops the
> guy down the road from buying just one bike and undercutting me when I've
> made the commitment to the distributor, so thats much more fair (!). Seems
> to me that that's business - that's how all the other brands operate. Some
> demand that I carry a number of bikes on the floor at all times, but the
> number is small, so I have no problem with that. The idea that I have to
> commit to buying the number of bikes set by them (not by me) for the year is
> what galls me.

Shimano Australia do that, to a certain extent, with shoes. Unless
you carry a full range (or some approximation thereof) you can't order
a single pair of shoes from them. This sucks for me because I like
their shoes, but we're too small to carry the range, so I have to
pay ... RETAIL for them! Urgh!