Basso admits involvement in doping scandal

[alex]

May 8, 2007 - 11:18AM

Italian cycling star Ivan Basso admitted to the anti-doping prosecutor
of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) on Monday that he was involved
in the Operation Puerto blood doping scandal.

...... and so on..

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/tour-favourite-admits-involvement-in-doping-scandal/2007/05/08/1178390270883.html



Its that time of year again. Who else is going to be yanked from le
tour?

[gplama[_106_]]

alex Wrote:
>
> Its that time of year again. Who else is going to be yanked from le
> tour?

Mike Tomalaris and Gabrielle Gatte? Please please please please!!! ;)


--
gplama

[rooman[_127_]]

gplama Wrote:
> Mike Tomalaris and Gabrielle Gatte? Please please please please!!! ;)
wot, no Left Bank...errr Southbank pics of accordian players in a
beret, it will never be the same?


--
rooman

[Bleve]

On May 8, 1:56 pm, alex > wrote:
> May 8, 2007 - 11:18AM
>
> Italian cycling star Ivan Basso admitted to the anti-doping prosecutor
> of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) on Monday that he was involved
> in the Operation Puerto blood doping scandal.
>
> ..... and so on..
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/tour-favourite-admits-involvement-in...
>
> Its that time of year again. Who else is going to be yanked from le
> tour?

If he's admitted it, it's hardly being yanked, it seems fair enough.
It wasn't fair last year when nothing was proven, but this changes
things considerably.

Could be a very interesting Tour for Mick Rogers and Cadel Evans ...

[cfsmtb[_167_]]

rooman Wrote:
> wot, no Left Bank...errr Southbank pics of accordian players in a beret,
> it will never be the same?

How about some reality, like cookery tips *live* from Fountain Gate
Krispy Kreme?

Or even more budget-conscious, for Stage 5, SBS go live to Beer Can
Hill where Bikesoiler & moi are cooking up a storm with popcorn,
sampling the latest batch of wheat bier homebrew and pushing the cats
off the lounge.


--
cfsmtb

[DaveB]

Bleve wrote:
> On May 8, 1:56 pm, alex > wrote:
>> May 8, 2007 - 11:18AM
>>
>> Italian cycling star Ivan Basso admitted to the anti-doping prosecutor
>> of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) on Monday that he was involved
>> in the Operation Puerto blood doping scandal.
>>
>> ..... and so on..
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/tour-favourite-admits-involvement-in...
>>
>> Its that time of year again. Who else is going to be yanked from le
>> tour?
>
> If he's admitted it, it's hardly being yanked, it seems fair enough.
> It wasn't fair last year when nothing was proven, but this changes
> things considerably.
>
> Could be a very interesting Tour for Mick Rogers and Cadel Evans ...
>

Toot, toooot. chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga. That's the sound of the
Cadel train leaving. This year I'm getting on the Mick Rogers train.

DaveB

[Shane Stanley]

In article om>,
Bleve > wrote:

> It wasn't fair last year when nothing was proven

There's still nothing proven ;-)

--
Shane Stanley

[Bleve]

On May 8, 4:15 pm, Shane Stanley >
wrote:
> In article om>,
>
> Bleve > wrote:
> > It wasn't fair last year when nothing was proven
>
> There's still nothing proven ;-)

He's admitted involvement. I'd call that proof.

[Shane Stanley]

In article . com>,
Bleve > wrote:

> He's admitted involvement. I'd call that proof.

I'd call it a confession, not proof. Was the evidence so overwhelming,
or had he just had enough of it all?

--
Shane Stanley

[monsterman[_43_]]

Shane Stanley Wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Bleve > wrote:
>
> > He's admitted involvement. I'd call that proof.
>
> I'd call it a confession, not proof. Was the evidence so overwhelming,
> or had he just had enough of it all?
>
> --
> Shane Stanley
No need to even ask such a question. In the absence of good reason to
impugn the confession (you know - duress, insanity, [x] years served at
Guantanamo Bay .. ..), the law recognises that no _further_ proof is
required. The confession taken as the ultimate, unimpeachable proof.


--
monsterman

[Shane Stanley]

In article >,
monsterman > wrote:

> In the absence of good reason to
> impugn the confession (you know - duress, insanity, [x] years served at
> Guantanamo Bay .. ..), the law recognises that no _further_ proof is
> required.

I guess I was trying to point out that it looks like being yet another
guilty verdict without proof in the form of a failed doping control.

--
Shane Stanley

[monsterman[_44_]]

Shane Stanley Wrote:
>
> I guess I was trying to point out that it looks like being yet another
> guilty verdict without proof in the form of a failed doping control.
>
> --
> Shane Stanley
Aaaahhhhh ..... ...... .....but the failed doping controls seem to be
the most impeachable of all "proof". You just wheel out the white coat
brigade (the contrarian variety being seemingly available on any street
corner) and challenge the testing science / false positive rates /
chain of custody / disappearing chimera theories / testosterone genesis
/ Landis gumf blah blah / BelieveTyler crap blah blah ... ... and all
our eyes start to glaze over. Forensic science of the medical variery
ain't 10% as sexy as Gil Grisham and his team of dedicated
well-resourced colleagues would have us believe:rolleyes:

One confession from the pointy end of the pro peleton will have 1000
times the impact (in the public arena) as 100 failed doping controls.
Its the only kind of proof that we all must value. :o

Now if Tyler would just come clean, Ekimov gets his gold and Mick
Rogers gets a bronze ... ... ...


--
monsterman

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:53:14 +1000, Shane Stanley wrote:

> I'd call it a confession, not proof. Was the evidence so overwhelming,
> or had he just had enough of it all?

Perhaps he thought he might get a shorter ban if he confessed rather than
waiting to be caught by a DNA match, or that some team might be more
willing to pick him up afterwards.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[rooman[_128_]]

Michael Warner Wrote:
> On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:53:14 +1000, Shane Stanley wrote:
>
> > I'd call it a confession, not proof. Was the evidence so
> overwhelming,
> > or had he just had enough of it all?
>
> Perhaps he thought he might get a shorter ban if he confessed rather
> than
> waiting to be caught by a DNA match, or that some team might be more
> willing to pick him up afterwards.
>
> --
> Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
CONI think he should , and want him to be supported and "not left
alone", ie stood by, (not harrassed). UCI's McQuaid on the other hand
thinks he shouldnt have any reduction in penalty for his admission
(Quoting WADA rules).

So I guess he will get 2 years, and then return to a non pro tour team.
unless CAS action gets a reduction. Amore e Vita have said they are
interested in him and support him breaking the omerta code that they
said had existed in ProCycling.
Tonight Basso said he "confessed to "attempted to dope" not that he
ever did dope, and he states he is aware an to attempt to dope is
"tantamount to" doping.

Nothing has come out yet from him on what they were trying to achieve
in the blood bag , whether it was -oxygenated, super fortified-, or
what..."just attempted"... maybe in a day or so Jan will come out of
the cupboard too, or it will become clearer to us what they were
"attempting" to do and that might throw some light on all the other
names and those outside cycling that we have been told exist but havnt
been ID'd ( footballers, athletes etc)...

the plot thickens...


--
rooman

[Donga]

On May 8, 10:09 pm, monsterman <monsterman.2q9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
Forensic science of the medical variery
> ain't 10% as sexy as Gil Grisham and his team of dedicated
> well-resourced colleagues would have us believe:rolleyes:

You must be wrong - these shows seem to have taken over from the legal
dramas, thank heavens. White coats give me much more of a horn than
f*cken lawyers do - except MM and SteveA, of course ;)

Donga

[monsterman[_45_]]

Donga Wrote:
> White coats give me much more of a horn than
> f*cken lawyers do - except MM and SteveA, of course ;)
>
> Donga
Freud would draw a line between that statement and your unnatural
affinity for goal umpires:D


--
monsterman

[Shane Stanley]

In article >,
rooman > wrote:

> Amore e Vita have said they are
> interested in him and support him breaking the omerta code that they
> said had existed in ProCycling.

Judging by the latest quotes, the code looks safe: "I want to clarify
that I was not asked about the other people involved, further, I don't
know of riders or other people involved."

Although he did throw a little mud indirectly: "I can't vouch for the
honour of my colleagues, who wins honestly, like I have always done." A
year of dishonest denials, including presumably false legal declarations
to Discovery, and now a holier-than-them proclamation of honesty.
Self-delusion is an amazing thing.

> Nothing has come out yet from him on what they were trying to achieve
> in the blood bag , whether it was -oxygenated, super fortified-, or
> what..

I'm waiting for the Japanese whaling defence...

--
Shane Stanley

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Wed, 09 May 2007 08:58:49 +1000, Shane Stanley wrote:

> I'm waiting for the Japanese whaling defence...

Norwegian cyclists are doing it, and Micronesia thinks it's ok?

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[rooman[_131_]]

Shane Stanley Wrote:
> In article >,
> rooman > wrote:
>
> > Amore e Vita have said they are
> > interested in him and support him breaking the omerta code that they
> > said had existed in ProCycling.
>
> Judging by the latest quotes, the code looks safe: "I want to clarify
> that I was not asked about the other people involved, further, I don't
> know of riders or other people involved."
>
> Although he did throw a little mud indirectly: "I can't vouch for the
> honour of my colleagues, who wins honestly, like I have always done." A
> year of dishonest denials, including presumably false legal
> declarations
> to Discovery, and now a holier-than-them proclamation of honesty.
> Self-delusion is an amazing thing.
>
> > Nothing has come out yet from him on what they were trying to achieve
> > in the blood bag , whether it was -oxygenated, super fortified-, or
> > what..
>
> I'm waiting for the Japanese whaling defence...
>
> --
> Shane Stanley
love that...."-yeah its all for research you honour, we had to know
what the effects were and you can't do that unless you are in a real
race...errr hunting & killing live whales in the Southern Ocean and
eating them in school canteens in Japan"...-good analogy SS.

interesting how during this past year they interpret it (as riders and
as team managers)...seems he (Basso) and Discovery had a pact according
to what Johan said too... words like "-he would ride with us whilst he
could assure us he wouldnt be "found" guilty of a doping offence"..-put
the onus on Ivan and seems to be have adopted a "wash " hands of
it..."-we didnt know, Ivan had to assure us he wouldnt be found guilty,
and when he no longer could do that he had to leave the team-...."
great, stick head in sand becuase he just might win a race and get away
with it...

Now I know why Discovery are distancing themsleves from these
"heroes"...I guess they and US Postal saw Lance's 7 years as lucky
beyond belief and it couldn't last...

Hopefully now its time for the Aussie train to conquer the world with
clean riding and bloody hard work, tenacity and tuff stuff as shown by
Stuey in P-R.
MR is well placed, CE is still working at it but may just hit the
podium in LeTour this year if Lotto protect him and he rides those
climbs many times between now and July. Even in the future Simon
gerrans, he is a great talent and a nice guy to boot, sad about his
leaving the Tour of Romandie after the prologue... I hope he's mending
and out and about soon, which leads me to....

OT, but its about survival in a big ocean....Bets for the Giro?, sadly
some good Aussie riders are stuck in the domestiqe role, but I reckon
given a chance Matty Lloyd and Will Walker will equip themselves
well...though, I think they will be used and ground into the road by
their team's demands to protect and set up leaders. They will have to
wait "do time" in the peleton down the years....but watch out...down
the track these guys can shine, they have great talent and tough heads.


--
rooman

[Shane Stanley]

In article >,
rooman > wrote:

> I guess they and US Postal saw Lance's 7 years as lucky
> beyond belief and it couldn't last...

And yet it so easily could have. The technology was clearly staying
ahead of the testers most of the time, and it was only action by
non-sporting authorities that produced any real evidence. What would the
situation be today if the Spanish police had decided what Fuentes was
doing was none of their business?

I feel some sympathy for Basso because I don't believe these guys do
this stuff without a nod and a wink, or at least a blind eye, from the
teams. But playing the victim sounds a bit pathetic after nearly a
year's denials. There's this thing called credibility...

--
Shane Stanley

[Theo Bekkers]

monsterman wrote:

> No need to even ask such a question. In the absence of good reason to
> impugn the confession (you know - duress, insanity, [x] years served
> at Guantanamo Bay .. ..), the law recognises that no _further_ proof
> is required. The confession taken as the ultimate, unimpeachable
> proof.

But there is almost always duress, as pressure put on people to confess. One
they have confessed, they are deemed to be guilty as accused. eg. David
Hicks is a terrorist, he confessed after five years of duress. Those British
Special Services people in Iran confessed after three days. Those women who
confessed in Salem really were witches. And one guy in the US who confessed
to murder to get life rather than the chair, who was recently proved
innocent after DNA testing, won't be released because he confessed and is
therefore guilty.

Hmmmm.

Theo

[Donga]

On May 9, 8:23 am, monsterman <monsterman.2qa...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:> White coats give me much more of a horn than
> > f*cken lawyers do - except MM and SteveA, of course ;)
>
> > Donga
>
> Freud would draw a line between that statement and your unnatural
> affinity for goal umpires:D
>
> --
> monsterman

Oooh bee-hayve! White maggots, catfish, you've really got me turned on
now, big boy!

Donga

[monsterman[_47_]]

Donga Wrote:
> On May 9, 8:23 am, monsterman <monsterman.2qa...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > Donga Wrote:> White coats give me much more of a horn than
> > > f*cken lawyers do - except MM and SteveA, of course ;)
> >
> > > Donga
> >
> > Freud would draw a line between that statement and your unnatural
> > affinity for goal umpires:D
> >
> > --
> > monsterman
>
> Oooh bee-hayve! White maggots, catfish, you've really got me turned on
> now, big boy!
>
> Donga
Hey that's "medium boy" now! MM is now down to 88kg and training hard
for Ventoux, d'Huez and Galibier in June!

i read something recently (cna't recall exactly what or where), but
apparently you can't call the umpires "white maggots" anymore, under
threat of being ejected from the ground. What is the world coming to?


--
monsterman

[Donga]

On May 9, 8:55 pm, monsterman <monsterman.2qb...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 8:23 am, monsterman <monsterman.2qa...@no-
> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > > Donga Wrote:> White coats give me much more of a horn than
> > > > f*cken lawyers do - except MM and SteveA, of course ;)
>
> > > > Donga
>
> > > Freud would draw a line between that statement and your unnatural
> > > affinity for goal umpires:D
>
> > > --
> > > monsterman
>
> > Oooh bee-hayve! White maggots, catfish, you've really got me turned on
> > now, big boy!
>
> > Donga
>
> Hey that's "medium boy" now! MM is now down to 88kg and training hard
> for Ventoux, d'Huez and Galibier in June!
>
> i read something recently (cna't recall exactly what or where), but
> apparently you can't call the umpires "white maggots" anymore, under
> threat of being ejected from the ground. What is the world coming to?
>
> --
> monsterman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can live with that - just so long as I can still call a lawyer a
catfish!

D

[monsterman[_49_]]

Donga Wrote:
>
> I can live with that - just so long as I can still call a lawyer a
> catfish!
>
> D
Would be a refreshing change actually, right SteveA?


--
monsterman