century problems

[Marco del Pollo]

I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at the
gym.

Problem One
After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between my
shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time was
7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
you even think this might be caused by something else?

Problem Two
After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple of
cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein bar
with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi,
52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
[not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
sugar?

I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
before then.

Thanks in advance.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Problem One
> After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between
my
> shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time
was
> 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
> you even think this might be caused by something else?
>
> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple
of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein
bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30
mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the
refined
> sugar?

Is your seat level? Both problems could be caused by having a saddle that's
tilted down at the front, causing you to slide forward towards the bars. In
such a case, you're actually spending the entire ride pushing back from the
bars to maintain position, which can cause lots of problems around the
shoulders and neck. And the tension could definitely contribute to
headaches.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.coms

[Tom Kunich]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
m...
> > Problem One
> > After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between
> my
> > shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time
> was
> > 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> > would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or
do
> > you even think this might be caused by something else?
> >
> > Problem Two
> > After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a
couple
> of
> > cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> > ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein
> bar
> > with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> > water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30
> mi,
> > 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and
gels
> > [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the
> refined
> > sugar?
>
> Is your seat level? Both problems could be caused by having a saddle
that's
> tilted down at the front, causing you to slide forward towards the bars.
In
> such a case, you're actually spending the entire ride pushing back from
the
> bars to maintain position, which can cause lots of problems around the
> shoulders and neck. And the tension could definitely contribute to
> headaches.

Whoah! You're good Mike.

I'd also suggest that you lay off the chocolate while on a ride. Though it
doesn't seem to effect most people, some do get headaches from it.

The real problem is, of course, inexperience. The more you ride the easier
it will get.

[R15757]

Marco del Pollo clucked:

<< I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at the
gym.

Problem One>>

If your position is good this is a simple case of your muscles not being used
to long rides. The human head (full of rocks) is heavy, need just a few very
long rides to get used to holding it up.

<<Problem Two>>
After about 6 hours I began having a headache. >>

I'm guessing you didn't in fact drink enough water. Could be any number of
things though.

Robert

[Ferenc Lovro]

(R15757) wrote in message >...
> Marco del Pollo clucked:
>
> << I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at the
> gym.
>
> Problem One>>
>
> If your position is good this is a simple case of your muscles not being used
> to long rides. The human head (full of rocks) is heavy, need just a few very
> long rides to get used to holding it up.

I agree with this, when the season begins I always suffer back and
neckaches for a week or so, after that it disappears. If they don't,
consider setting up your saddle position correctly. Temporarily
lifting your stem up may help, but you will be less aerodynamic.

> <<Problem Two>>
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. >>
>
> I'm guessing you didn't in fact drink enough water. Could be any number of
> things though.

digestion problems may also lead to headaches. (eg. you haven't been
to the toilet for long) or your body is not yet used to such food as
chocolates/energy bars/etc. a too tight helmet can also cause serious
headache.

Frank
www.plitkorn.com

[W K]

"R15757" > wrote in message
...
> Marco del Pollo clucked:

> <<Problem Two>>
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. >>
>
> I'm guessing you didn't in fact drink enough water. Could be any number of
> things though.

That would be my guess too, but I would have thought there's a fair chance
you'd be familiar with this doing enough training for a century.

But then - thats probably because I have a lax attitude to hydration in
winter, if I paid more attention to drinking water it wouldn't happen.

[psycholist]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
the
> gym.
>
> Problem One
> After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between
my
> shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time
was
> 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
> you even think this might be caused by something else?
>
This is caused by the effort to hold your head up as you look down the road.
The saddle thing Mike mentioned will likely help, but you might just need
more time in the saddle to condition those muscles to hold that position for
that length of time. Of course, one solution is to ride faster so you're
not out there for 7:45 ;-)

You might want to check into adopting a more upright position. Are you
using a racing style stem that's parallel to the ground? Where are your
handlebars relative to your saddle height? It may be too early in your
riding career for you to be hunkered down like the pros. You may need to
gradually work towards that over time as your neck muscles get better
conditioned.

> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple
of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein
bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30
mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the
refined
> sugar?
>
> I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
> before then.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

I'm no nutritionist, but a) I sure don't know of anything wrong with having
a big breakfast before you ride. If you're going to carbo-load, you need to
be sure to get protein, too. From what I've read, it's best to balance your
protein, carbohydrate and fat intake to keep your blood sugar levels from
getting out of whack. It does sound to me like you had an awful lot of
refined sugar. But the headache might just have been an extension of the
neck and back pain thing.

Riding more will always help!

Bob C.

[psycholist]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
the
> gym.
>
> Problem One
> After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between
my
> shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time
was
> 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
> you even think this might be caused by something else?
>
> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple
of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein
bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30
mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the
refined
> sugar?
>
> I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
> before then.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

This is in addition to everything else that's been posted in reply to your
querie. It's no big deal to pop a couple of ibuprophen before a big ride.
Don't do it before every day's training ride, but a couple before a century
or an exceptionally long/hard weekend training ride can help reduce joint
pain and help hold off the neck pain and headaches.

But if you take them all the time, they'll stop being effective and they'll
mask the pains that tell you that you're having problems with your bike
fit/position that need to be addressed. Also, they can be bad for your
kidneys and liver if you take too many.

Bob C.
Not a doctor and I shouldn't be playing one in r.b.m.

[Curtis L. Russell]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:16:09 -0800, "Marco del Pollo"
> wrote:

>Problem Two
>After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple of
>cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
>ride.

If you are used to drinking two cups of coffee every day, skipping
them will give you a headache. Using a couple of aspirin that have
caffeine in them will probably keep the headaches at bay, although
they aren't the equvalent of two cups of coffee.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Per Elmsäter]

Marco del Pollo wrote:
> prior evening.) I had plenty of water and drank regularly throughout
> the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi, 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig
> newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels [not all things at each
> stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined sugar?
>

At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at all.
Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Dan Connelly]

Per Elmsäter wrote:
> Marco del Pollo wrote:
>
>>prior evening.) I had plenty of water and drank regularly throughout
>>the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi, 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig
>>newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels [not all things at each
>>stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined sugar?
>>
>
>
> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at all.
> Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.
>
This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced effort levels.


For back pain:

1. See Mike's recommendation on seat position.
2. Take yoga, or do other exercises to improve core strength and hamstring flexibility.
3. Work on position. There's plenty of references on this. The spine should
be neutral, not bend. "Relax the belly".

Dan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article >,
psycholist > wrote:
>
>"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
>news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
>> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
>> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
>the
>> gym.
>>
>>
>> I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
>> before then.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>
>This is in addition to everything else that's been posted in reply to your
>querie. It's no big deal to pop a couple of ibuprophen before a big ride.
>Don't do it before every day's training ride, but a couple before a century
>or an exceptionally long/hard weekend training ride can help reduce joint
>pain and help hold off the neck pain and headaches.

_ I recently read that you need to be careful with NSAIDS and
endurance events. Some of them can interfere with kidney function
and make hyponatremia[1] more likely. The article I read suggested
that Tylenol was okay, but that ibuphrophen and aleve were not.
Personally, I would avoid taking anything until pain shows up
and I would be extreme cautious about taking anything when
hot and tired.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]http://intranet.micds.org/upper/health/health_project2003/acorrigan/one.html



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQCukpmTWTAjn5N/lAQHjYwP/SmOzWKLBHxf3xge5ToTa8v9KWJGhaxDu
9FPbVmk+gvAnN/2xe/K/cIykL9AuvpHvGf3+ZEy3yjhJa6HGvTqbJSogYs++1dZw
t2BZNSK0MeEmtR7T2Yh6t5Lk5b7MN0TRk7sqmSL4T+eYyuI3Sa YoWO1xZRFduR58
+go1ElIAlO8=
=DJdK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Terry Morse]

psycholist wrote:

> Also, [ibuprofen] can be bad for your
> kidneys and liver if you take too many.

Ibuprofen overdose is bad for your kidneys, not your liver. Tylenol
overdose is bad for your liver.

IANAD, but I got this info from one.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

[Per Elmsäter]

Dan Connelly wrote:
> Per Elmsäter wrote:
>> Marco del Pollo wrote:
>>
>>> prior evening.) I had plenty of water and drank regularly
>>> throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi, 52 mi, 70 mi, 85
>>> mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels [not all
>>> things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
>>> sugar?
>>>
>>
>>
>> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at
>> all. Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.
>>
> This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced
> effort levels.
>

Not enough to deplete the glucogen stores, therefore no reason to replenish
them during the ride.

>
> For back pain:
>
> 1. See Mike's recommendation on seat position.
> 2. Take yoga, or do other exercises to improve core strength and
> hamstring flexibility.
> 3. Work on position. There's plenty of references on this. The
> spine should be neutral, not bend. "Relax the belly".
>
> Dan

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[W K]

"Per Elmsäter" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Connelly wrote:
> > Per Elmsäter wrote:
> >> Marco del Pollo wrote:
> >>
> >>> prior evening.) I had plenty of water and drank regularly
> >>> throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi, 52 mi, 70 mi, 85
> >>> mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels [not all
> >>> things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
> >>> sugar?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at
> >> all. Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.
> >>
> > This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced
> > effort levels.
> >
>
> Not enough to deplete the glucogen
glycogen
>stores, therefore no reason to replenish
> them during the ride.

Unless you do a hell of a lot of low intensity training that is not going to
be true for a long day out.
I say this as a holiday trundler.

[Dan Connelly]

Per Elmsäter wrote:
> Not enough to deplete the glucogen stores, therefore no reason to replenish
> them during the ride.

Okay, so if I have two riders do a 7 hour century, one on Atkins drink
(protein and fat w/ only trace COH), the other with, say, a 5:1 C:P ratio
drink, there will be no difference in how strongly they finish?

Do you have any support for this assertion? It goes everything I've read
or experienced. The aerobic-superaerobic transition is a fuzzy line, not
a first-order phase transition where a carbohydrate metabolism "turns on".
Additionally, there's almost always super-aerobic efforts during long rides (hills, etc),
no matter what the average speed.

Dan

[Jeff Jones]

"Per Elmsäter" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Connelly wrote:
> > Per Elmsäter wrote:

> >> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at
> >> all. Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.
> >>
> > This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced
> > effort levels.
> >
>
> Not enough to deplete the glucogen stores, therefore no reason to
replenish
> them during the ride.
>
Your brain tends to die if it doesn't have a steady supply of glucose. It
can't burn fat.

Jeff

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
...
>
> Your brain tends to die if it doesn't have a steady supply of glucose. It
> can't burn fat.



Dumbass -


Even if the brain could metabolize fat, most Masters Fatties, being
brain-dead, would still be carrying those 35 BMIs.

[Michael Murray]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message news:<t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01>...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at the
> gym.
>
> Problem One
> After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between my
> shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time was
> 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
> you even think this might be caused by something else?
>
> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
> sugar?
>
> I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
> before then.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I get a headache around lunchtime virtually every Sat and Sunday. A
Coffee clears it every time. By lunchtime on a weekday, I'm usually up
to 4 cups by that time. When I was unemployed last year for a few
months I managed to wan myself off caffine, but am now back to square
one.

Any chance it was just a withdrawal headache ?

M.

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:37:54 GMT, "Tom Kunich" >
wrote:
>The real problem is, of course, inexperience. The more you ride the easier
>it will get.

As well, the more you ride, the better your adjustments will get,
until it's quite nicely dialed in.
--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:16:09 -0800, "Marco del Pollo"
> wrote:
>After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between my
>shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time was
>7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
>would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do

Handlebar too wide or narrow could cause it, or handlebar too low.
Too low puts more weight on your hands/arms/shoulders. Too wide /
narrow stretches or squeezes your shoulder blades.

>After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple of
>cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the

Don't mess with your routine, especially if it involves caffeine.
Caffeine can be good or bad for headaches, but changing your usual
dosage in either direction is likely to cause a headache.

>ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein bar
>with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of

I'm not confident in carb-loading via dinner the night before. You
should have had exactly whatever breakfast you had for your metric
centuries.

>water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi,

A sports drink might have helped.

>52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
>[not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
>sugar?

Possibly; especially with not having sufficient complex carbs, you
could certainly have bonked.

I've read that eating in very small increments constantly while
riding is a good strategy, and I'm going to try it in the spring.
Small stuff like fig newtons (which are purportedly great cycling
food, BTW) should be easy enough to eat while riding -- eat one (or
a piece of one) every few minutes, however much you can eat steadily
in little bits without causing digestive problems or slowing you
down.
--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:28:10 -0500, "psycholist"
> wrote:
>This is caused by the effort to hold your head up as you look down the road.
>The saddle thing Mike mentioned will likely help, but you might just need
>more time in the saddle to condition those muscles to hold that position for
>that length of time.

Also, if the helmet is too low, neck pain results from cranking the
head up too high so the helmet is not obstructing vision.
--
Rick Onanian

[Top Sirloin]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:57:59 +1100, "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com>
wrote:

>
>"Per Elmsäter" > wrote in message
...
>> Dan Connelly wrote:
>> > Per Elmsäter wrote:
>
>> >> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at
>> >> all. Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.
>> >>
>> > This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced
>> > effort levels.
>> >
>>
>> Not enough to deplete the glucogen stores, therefore no reason to
>replenish
>> them during the ride.
>>
>Your brain tends to die if it doesn't have a steady supply of glucose. It
>can't burn fat.

Do a google search on "ketones" and "brain".


--
Scott Johnson
"There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than
to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go
to watch their school play basketball every Saturday
and regard that as their week's exercise."
- John F. Kennedy, 1962

[someone]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message news:<t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01>...

> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30 mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the refined
> sugar?

If you're addicted to caffeine, then caffeine withdrawal will usually
cause a very noticeable headache, which will last for a few days or
until you take more caffeine. So drinking coffee every day except on
the day of the big ride doesn't seem like a good idea. Better (but
too hard for me) is to not drink coffee regularly but to drink coffee
for a big event; this supposedly improves your ability to burn fat
and some other good things.

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 12 Feb 2004 09:07:27 -0800, (Michael Murray)
wrote:

>Any chance it was just a withdrawal headache ?
>
>M.

Yes

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

You ought to try going cold turkey from a gallon or more a day. If I
could see straight, I would have gone back and killed the army doctor
that gave me the order.

[Jeff Jones]

"Top Sirloin" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:57:59 +1100, "Jeff Jones"
<jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com>
> wrote:

> >Your brain tends to die if it doesn't have a steady supply of glucose. It
> >can't burn fat.
>
> Do a google search on "ketones" and "brain".
>
OK let me rephrase. Your brain *prefers* to burn glucose but it can burn
ketones under certain conditions. It can't burn fat (a ketone is not a fat).

I would also say that for most people, not eating any type of glucose on a
long ride - even at low intensities - will make you feel pretty ordinary by
the end.

Jeff

[Eric Gunnerson]

Marco,

I'd suggest you find somebody in your bike area who does bike fitting -
preferably a physical therapist.

I did a fitting last summer and found that while my bike fit was pretty
good, my body fit wasn't - I had poor hamstring flexibility, with one side
less flexible than the other. This both torqued me around and meant I didn't
have the proper posture.

Fixing that made a world of difference for my on-bike comfort, and improved
my efficiency a fair bit. No longer do my hands, neck, and back hurt on long
rides.

On the food side, I'd tend to blame the caffeine. Some people get headaches
from low blood suger if they bonk, but you were eating a fair bit of sugar,
and you didn't describe any other symptoms of bonking (for me, getting
tired, really hungry, and not being able to ride faster than 5 miles per
hour). That also could be dehydration, but that seems unlikely as well.

You might want to weigh yourself before and after long training rides.
Dehydration can be hard to judge when cycling because the wind takes away
the sweat.

Oh, and the other question is "how far were your training rides?" If you
were only riding 30 miles at a time, your body is likely to rebel if you ask
it to ride 100.

--
Eric Gunnerson

Visit the C# product team at http://www.csharp.net
Eric's blog is at http://weblogs.asp.net/ericgu/

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
the
> gym.
>
> Problem One
> After about 3 hours I began experiencing a pain in my upper back between
my
> shoulder blades that continued for the remainder of the ride [total time
was
> 7:45]. I imagine I need to take my bike to my LBS for an adjustment but
> would you have a guess as to what component(s) might be the cause? Or do
> you even think this might be caused by something else?
>
> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache. Normally I drink a couple
of
> cups of coffee in the morning -- but decided not to have any before the
> ride. I didn't feel like a big breakfast would be good so ate a protein
bar
> with water. (I had pasta for dinner the prior evening.) I had plenty of
> water and drank regularly throughout the ride. At SAG stops [17 mi, 30
mi,
> 52 mi, 70 mi, 85 mi] I ate fig newtons, peanut M&Ms, energy bars, and gels
> [not all things at each stop]. I'm wondering if I overloaded on the
refined
> sugar?
>
> I'm riding the Solvang Century in March and want to resolve these problems
> before then.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

[Claire Petersky]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
the
> gym.

> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache.

I get a migraine from too much bright sunlight. You'd think, "good thing she
lives in Seattle, eh?", but reflections off of the water is enough to
trigger it. If I was riding a century in bright sunlight, I'd definitely
need a pair of sunglasses, a piece of equipment you didn't mention.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

New CD coming out this month! See: http://www.tiferet.net

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[Benjamin Weiner]

Per Elmsäter > wrote:

> >> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at
> >> all. Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.

> > This is silly. Of course there is carbohydrate burning at reduced
> > effort levels.

> Not enough to deplete the glucogen stores, therefore no reason to replenish
> them during the ride.

A well-trained rider might be able to ride 100 miles at low intensity
without eating anything. For a relative newbie, it's not advisable.
A given amount of time (which probably included stops) is a higher
intensity effort for a less-trained rider, as well. And, over a
period of 7 hours in the day, most people will have at least one meal
even if they're not riding at all.

Finally, there are other reasons to eat during a ride even if your
glycogen meter has not dropped to empty. Like, food tastes good,
and can relieve that gnawing feeling in one's stomach. It's also
better to eat rather than waiting till you get super hungry and
pigging out. That's not usually a good mid-ride strategy.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Benjamin Weiner" > wrote in message
news:402c1d56$1@darkstar...
>
> A well-trained rider might be able to ride 100 miles at low intensity
> without eating anything.



<snip>




Well trained riders can ride for 100 miles at what most would consider a
high tempo without eating anything.


They've got their fat metabolism systems fine-tuned unlike us Freds.

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:53:18 +1100, "Jeff Jones"
<jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote:
>I would also say that for most people, not eating any type of glucose on a
>long ride - even at low intensities - will make you feel pretty ordinary by
>the end.

Do you mean that being glucose-deprived will make you feel like a
bike with an insanely large front wheel and a tiny rear, with no
gear drive, just cranks turning said front wheel?

Googled for pretty ordinary, got this:
http://www.ruralmissouri.org/Octhighwheel.html
--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:51:10 GMT, "Claire Petersky"
> wrote:
>trigger it. If I was riding a century in bright sunlight, I'd definitely
>need a pair of sunglasses, a piece of equipment you didn't mention.

....and, OTOH, sunglasses give me headaches from where they rest on
the nose.
--
Rick Onanian

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> 3. Work on position. There's plenty of references on this. The spine
should
> be neutral, not bend. "Relax the belly".

"Relaxing the belly" can also have tremendous benefits descending. Once I
figured out that allowing my gut (sounds better than belly) to meet my legs
improved my speed, I started dropping just about everybody on non-technical
descents (including some who outweigh me).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Hunrobe]

>"Mike Jacoubowsky"

wrote:

>"Relaxing the belly" can also have tremendous benefits descending. Once I
>figured out that allowing my gut (sounds better than belly) to meet my legs
>improved my speed, I started dropping just about everybody on non-technical
>descents (including some who outweigh me).

Northern Illinois is not exactly overrun with major descents, "technical" or
otherwise, so I've always been a little curious- exactly what separates a
"technical" from a "non-technical" descent? Is there any universally accepted
objective standard? BTW, "such and such road between point A and point B is a
technical descent" isn't what I'm after. What I'm asking is this: is there a
standard that defines technical descents in terms of specific topographical
details- grade, length of descent, number and severity of curves, frequency of
curves, etc?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[W K]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Benjamin Weiner" > wrote in message
> news:402c1d56$1@darkstar...
> >
> > A well-trained rider might be able to ride 100 miles at low intensity
> > without eating anything.
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
> Well trained riders can ride for 100 miles at what most would consider a
> high tempo without eating anything.
>
>
> They've got their fat metabolism systems fine-tuned unlike us Freds.

A very strange way of looking at things.

Very few riders could do it, even fewer would actually want to.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"W K" > wrote in message
...

> >
> >
> >
> > Well trained riders can ride for 100 miles at what most would consider a
> > high tempo without eating anything.
> >
> >
> > They've got their fat metabolism systems fine-tuned unlike us Freds.
>
> A very strange way of looking at things.
>
> Very few riders could do it, even fewer would actually want to.





Dumbass -

Any decent pro can do that.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Northern Illinois is not exactly overrun with major descents, "technical"
or
> otherwise, so I've always been a little curious- exactly what separates a
> "technical" from a "non-technical" descent? Is there any universally
accepted
> objective standard? BTW, "such and such road between point A and point B
is a
> technical descent" isn't what I'm after. What I'm asking is this: is there
a
> standard that defines technical descents in terms of specific
topographical
> details- grade, length of descent, number and severity of curves,
frequency of
> curves, etc?

Bob: I'd call a descent where going fast involves playing "percentage
games" a technical descent. It's a combination of things like corners
banked the wrong way or decreasing radius, surface conditions, poor
visibility of oncoming traffic, a grade steep enough that you don't get a
second chance if you screw up and come into a corner too fast... that sort
of thing. Sorry that this seems to be so subjective-

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[W K]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W K" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well trained riders can ride for 100 miles at what most would consider
a
> > > high tempo without eating anything.
> > >
> > >
> > > They've got their fat metabolism systems fine-tuned unlike us Freds.
> >
> > A very strange way of looking at things.
> >
> > Very few riders could do it, even fewer would actually want to.
>
> Dumbass -

Rude word contest eh?
**** gargler.

> Any decent pro can do that.

Apart from the fact that "decent tempo" for them is a fair way above my
"decent tempo", so I doubt they could.

Would they want to?

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:40:26 +0000 (UTC), W K wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" wrote:
>> Dumbass -
>
> Rude word contest eh?

Newbie. (to rbr).

>> Any decent pro can do that.
>
> Apart from the fact that "decent tempo" for them is a fair way above my
> "decent tempo", so I doubt they could.

About the tempo, that's what he said. About your doubt, you are
incorrect.

> Would they want to?

Well, *nothing* to eat is maybe not so smart, but I once rode 25 kms
with Michael Boogerd when I happened to meet him on the road; he was
halfway on a 200 km training ride and had eaten one of the two
sandwiches he brought with him. I asked if he would stop for pie or
something (pizza, maybe) later on, but noooo, that was not necessary.

Maybe it was because he was on his way from his parents to his girl
friend (that he was), to ask her to marry him.

[Rick Onanian]

Turgid Macaroni wrote:
>> Dumbass -
"W K" > wrote:
>Rude word contest eh?
>**** gargler.

Not a rude word contest; he just things it makes him look
intelligent if he calls everybody a dumbass. He rarely posts without
"Dumbass -" and sixteen blank lines on either side of it, after a
long, untrimmed quote.
--
Rick Onanian

[Curtis L. Russell]

On 13 Feb 2004 06:13:57 GMT, (Hunrobe) wrote:

>Northern Illinois is not exactly overrun with major descents, "technical" or
>otherwise, so I've always been a little curious- exactly what separates a
>"technical" from a "non-technical" descent? Is there any universally accepted
>objective standard?

Run a ten lap cat V race on the course. If they average an accident a
lap, its technical. If no one finishes, its very technical. If there
are no accidents, there has been a mistake - it can't have been a cat
V race.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[Terry Morse]

Hunrobe wrote:

> I've always been a little curious- exactly what separates a
> "technical" from a "non-technical" descent?

For me, a technical descent is one that requires plenty of braking.
In the nearby Santa Cruz Mountains, the roads that have a highway
number are non-technical (9, 84, 92). You can descend any of these
with barely a touch of the brakes. The roads without highway numbers
are technical: hairpin turns, poor sight lines, rough or dirty
pavement, and steep sections. Technical roads include Redwood Gulch,
Montebello, Page Mill, Old La Honda, and Kings Mountain. Better make
sure your brakes are in good working order before descending.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

First of all, let me congratulate you. 7:45 is not a bad time for a
first century.

As for your shoulder problem, don't blame the components, blame their
location relative to the rest of the bike. Sounds to me like it needs to
be adjusted better to your body's dimensions. Shoulder pain is usually
an indication of having to bear too much weight on the arms. You may be
hyperextended i.e. too far forwards.

Not being able to see your current position on the bike, I can only
surmise this, of course. If your LBS has someone deft at bike fit,
consult him (or her).

As for your head ache, I noticed that amongst the items you listed,
there was little to nothing that provided much in the way of
electrolytes. That is, salts (sodium, potassium, magnesium, etc.). This
may be the cause. I doubt that your two cups of coffee had much to do
with it, unless you have had problems with this drink before.

Coffee can actually help relieve headaches.

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Kyle Legate]

Rick Onanian wrote:
> Turgid Macaroni wrote:
>>> Dumbass -
> "W K" > wrote:
>> Rude word contest eh?
>> **** gargler.
>
> Not a rude word contest; he just things it makes him look
> intelligent if he calls everybody a dumbass. He rarely posts without
> "Dumbass -" and sixteen blank lines on either side of it, after a
> long, untrimmed quote.
>
But it's amazing that it regularly snags someone after all this time.
Appropriately, it's an effective dumbass newbie meter.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"W K" > wrote in message
...
>
> Rude word contest eh?
> **** gargler.
>
> > Any decent pro can do that.
>
> Apart from the fact that "decent tempo" for them is a fair way above my
> "decent tempo", so I doubt they could.
>
> Would they want to?



Dumbass -

A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called "the
Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing and 117 miles.
On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.

Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
self-evident. So yes, they want to.

[S o r n i]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "W K" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Rude word contest eh?
>> **** gargler.
>>
>>> Any decent pro can do that.
>>
>> Apart from the fact that "decent tempo" for them is a fair way above
>> my "decent tempo", so I doubt they could.
>>
>> Would they want to?
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called
> "the Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing
> and 117 miles. On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.
>
> Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> self-evident. So yes, they want to.



Dicklick -

Why don't you lose the abusive salutation? It prevents most if not all
readers from considering your posts rationally.

Bill "due for a Mt. Palomar masochism-fest" S.

[Dan Connelly]

S o r n i wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called
>>"the Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing
>>and 117 miles. On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.
>>
>>Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
>>utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
>>self-evident. So yes, they want to.
>
>
>
>
> Dicklick -
>
> Why don't you lose the abusive salutation? It prevents most if not all
> readers from considering your posts rationally.
>
> Bill "due for a Mt. Palomar masochism-fest" S.
>
>

Bill:

Why don't you ask him how many grams of COH are in a Snickers and a Coke?
We were talking about doing centuries without significant COH intake.

Dan

[W K]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W K" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Rude word contest eh?
> > **** gargler.
> >
> > > Any decent pro can do that.
> >
> > Apart from the fact that "decent tempo" for them is a fair way above my
> > "decent tempo", so I doubt they could.
> >
> > Would they want to?
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called "the
> Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing and 117
miles.
> On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.
>
> Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> self-evident. So yes, they want to.
>

Arsewipe-

I may have mistaken you for an atkins cultist.
However, I still object to the "fat metabolism fine tuned" bit.
Higher fitness levels and better blood supplies to muscles- yes.
A greater proportion of fat metabolising structures than someone doing short
races- yes.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"W K" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> > utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> > self-evident. So yes, they want to.
> >
>
> Arsewipe-
>
> I may have mistaken you for an atkins cultist.
> However, I still object to the "fat metabolism fine tuned" bit.




Dumbass -

That's what happens when riders do 5 hour tempo rides, day after day after
day. The body becomes more efficient at burning fat. These are tempo rides,
mind you, not high intensity.

Don't believe it? Fine. It doesn't really matter whether you do or not.

[Amit]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
>
> Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> self-evident. So yes, they want to.

Dumbass,

Fat metabolism is mostly a function of fitness. Fitter people can use
more fat at a given intensity. You can't train it specifically.

-Amit

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Amit" > wrote in message
m...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
> >
> > Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> > utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> > self-evident. So yes, they want to.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Fat metabolism is mostly a function of fitness. Fitter people can use
> more fat at a given intensity. You can't train it specifically.




Dumbass -


It's chicken and egg.


They come hand in hand. 35 hour weeks leads to both.

[Benjamin Weiner]

Kurgan Gringioni > wrote:
> "Benjamin Weiner" > wrote in message

> > A well-trained rider might be able to ride 100 miles at low intensity
> > without eating anything.

> Well trained riders can ride for 100 miles at what most would consider a
> high tempo without eating anything.

> They've got their fat metabolism systems fine-tuned unlike us Freds.

Luftmensch,

What, no "Dumbass"? I'm sure that is true, but I wasn't going as far
as to refer to Horner and the long-miles brigade. Even Freds like us
can ride for several hours on breakfast and a Clif bar or two. It's
not like that bar is gonna bust our diets. And compared to a guy
riding his first ever century, Freds like you are trained. (No
offense to the novice centurist, who after all is more physically
active than 99% of the US population.)

I think it's useful to learn to ride like that, but there's no real
reason to go as far as starving yourself on a very long ride,
especially for the novice or tourist. I sure am not going to be
mistaken for Horner anytime soon, so I may as well quit fooling myself
and eat real food now and then. It's still about who gets to the line
first, not who gets to the line after eating the fewest powergels.
Burning fat is useful insofar as it helps with the first of those
goals.

[Hunrobe]

Subjective types of standards are pretty much what I expected but if you don't
ask you never know, right? :-)
It has always seemed a bit odd to me to use the term "technical" to describe
something that can not be objectively defined but I guess "technical descent"
sounds a bit more professional than either "visceral descent" or "Yeeehaaa!
descent".
Thanks to you, Terry, and Curtis for your replies.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[David Reuteler]

In rec.bicycles.misc Kevan Smith > wrote:
: And then bonk like an amateur.

i found it hard to believe a pro would have enuf body fat to burn to make it
200km. that would require at least a pound and a half for a good pace.
--
david reuteler

[Dave]

Per Elmsäter wrote:
>
> At the speed you were gong you probably weren't burning any carbs at all.
> Hence no reason to eat sugar at all.

Certainly he was burning glycogen (carbs). Endurance cycling trains
your body to burn stored glycogen more efficiently. Fat use is also
more efficient with endurance training, but glycogen is the preferred
fuel for muscles.


-=Dave=-

[Marco del Pollo]

I was TOP. Interesting threads created -- glad to read most of the
responses illustrated civil discourse. [Some of you need to ride more to
release aggression!]

Off-list consensus agrees that day of ride was not the time to eliminate the
usual morning coffee and that the advise I got to not have a cup was
incorrect. I should have gotten the hint that it would be ok given all the
Starbucks that was being consumed around me before the ride began.

The pain that devekloped between my shoulders seems to point at seat and/or
handlebars. I have an appt with my LBS for an adjustment session.

Now I have a month to get ready for the Solvang century -- the goal is to
finish [including *riding* up the "wall"]. I'm over 50, have had back
surgery and continue to medicate myself for HBP... a family trait that is a
problem regardless of our physical condition.

I don't plan on doing anything like the Palomar ride some of you described.
If I can do 1000 ft of climbing in a 20 mile ride that takes me over 2 hrs
.... then I consider it a great ride [so does my Doc]. I'm happy to finish
a century before they sweep the course.


So those of you who responded with one-reply-fits-all -- sorry for leaving
out the demographics in TOP.

MdelP

[Benjamin Weiner]

Hunrobe > wrote:
> Subjective types of standards are pretty much what I expected but if you don't
> ask you never know, right? :-)
> It has always seemed a bit odd to me to use the term "technical" to describe
> something that can not be objectively defined but I guess "technical descent"
> sounds a bit more professional than either "visceral descent" or "Yeeehaaa!
> descent".
> Thanks to you, Terry, and Curtis for your replies.

Technical = requires technique.

A technical descent on the road is one where you're always
thinking about how to set up for the next turn, and braking
beforehand so you get around it in one piece. As opposed to
a road you can just blast down at 40+ mph. On an MTB,
technical trails require more bike handling skills - roots,
rocks, jumps, drops, etc.

I'm not sure where this meaning of "technical" originated -
it might be from rock and mountain climbing.

[Amit]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message >...
> "Amit" > wrote in message
> m...
> > "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> > > utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> > > self-evident. So yes, they want to.
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > Fat metabolism is mostly a function of fitness. Fitter people can use
> > more fat at a given intensity. You can't train it specifically.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> It's chicken and egg.
>
> They come hand in hand. 35 hour weeks leads to both.

Dumbass,

If you work on getting a) faster then b) fat utilization capabilities will follow.

You can't get b without working on a.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Amit" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Amit" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> > > > utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> > > > self-evident. So yes, they want to.
> > >
> > > Dumbass,
> > >
> > > Fat metabolism is mostly a function of fitness. Fitter people can use
> > > more fat at a given intensity. You can't train it specifically.
> >
> > Dumbass -
> >
> > It's chicken and egg.
> >
> > They come hand in hand. 35 hour weeks leads to both.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> If you work on getting a) faster then b) fat utilization capabilities will
follow.
>
> You can't get b without working on a.


Dumbass -

Sure you can.

A cyclotourist who never intends to race is not trying to get faster, but if
he/she does long tempo rides then their fat metabolizing efficiency will
increase.

[Benjamin Lewis]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "Amit" > wrote:
>> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote:
>>> "Amit" > wrote:
>>>> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dumbass,
>>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>> Dumbass,
>
> Dumbass -

Huh. How'd I stumble into rec.bicycles.kindergarten?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

[Stewart Fleming]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:


> It's chicken and egg.

Alexandre,

Masters racers will have the chicken and the egg with a side order of
fries. And a Kirin beer.

[Andy Coggan]

"Marco del Pollo" > wrote in message
news:t_DWb.15555$IF1.1877@fed1read01...
> I rode in a century last weekend -- first I have done other than a metric
> last May. I bike regularly [I'm in SoCal] including spinning session at
the
> gym.

> Problem Two
> After about 6 hours I began having a headache.

Possibly due to hyponatremia, i.e., low blood sodium levels. Next time, try
drinking a sports drink instead of water, or even eating something salty
(e.g, pretzels), and see if that solves the problem.

Andy Coggan

[Andy Coggan]

"Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
...

> A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called "the
> Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing and 117
miles.
> On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.
>
> Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> self-evident. So yes, they want to.

Your roommates are sorely in need of some decent advice on how to train.

Andy Coggan

[Andy Coggan]

"David Reuteler" > wrote in message
.. .
> In rec.bicycles.misc Kevan Smith > wrote:
> : And then bonk like an amateur.
>
> i found it hard to believe a pro would have enuf body fat to burn to make
it
> 200km. that would require at least a pound and a half for a good pace.

Even Tyler "Prisoner of War" Hamilton probably carries close to ten pounds
of fat on his body.

Andy Coggan

[Kurgan Gringioni]

"Andy Coggan" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called
"the
> > Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing and 117
> miles.
> > On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.
> >
> > Doing that sort of thing optimizes fat metabolism. The advantages of
> > utilizing fat (thereby preserving glucose) in long road races are
> > self-evident. So yes, they want to.
>
> Your roommates are sorely in need of some decent advice on how to train.





Maybe.


They're probably faster than anyone you advise though.

[Rick Onanian]

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:29:38 -0800, Benjamin Lewis
> wrote:
>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> "Amit" > wrote:
>>>>> Dumbass,
>>>> Dumbass -
>>> Dumbass,
>> Dumbass -
>
>Huh. How'd I stumble into rec.bicycles.kindergarten?

I dunno...but this is definitely it. In another thread, this was
discussed:
http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/11055.html
--
Rick Onanian

[Claire Petersky]

"Stewart Fleming" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>
> > It's chicken and egg.
>
> Alexandre,
>
> Masters racers will have the chicken and the egg with a side order of
> fries. And a Kirin beer.

As long as we're having Kirin, can I have my chicken and the egg in the form
of oyako donburi?

Arigato,


Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

New CD out now! See: http://www.tiferet.net

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."

[Stewart Fleming]

Claire Petersky wrote:


> As long as we're having Kirin, can I have my chicken and the egg in the form
> of oyako donburi?

Mother and Child reunion?
It's only a moment away.

[Benjamin Weiner]

Andy Coggan > wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" > wrote in message

> > A couple of my roomates are pros. They regularly do this thing called "the
> > Loop" which includes Mt. Palomar with 10,000+ ft. of climbing and 117 miles.
> > On one Snickers and one Coke and water, 18+mph average.

> Your roommates are sorely in need of some decent advice on how to train.

I bet they stop in the middle for a burger and fries.
They just tell Henry the Snickers-and-Coke story to
wind up his food obsession.